So SatBK was released recently.

[supersonikku]

Alright, i have a question hopefully you can answer for me those who have the game.

In terms of speed, how flighty is SaTBK? I loved secret rings, when upgraded i thought the speed was imense, and with sonic unleashed (360) i feel like ive been spoiled with speed, im addicted to the boost button, its like a drug. Even when i know i cant press the boost because the sequence is automated i keep PRESSING IT because of some strange function in my body that goes "boost boost, boost now! come on boost"

Now i know sonic games arent all about speed, thats a common misconception that has surfaced and it annoys me, but i cant deny that a massive step-down in the speed from unleashed would just feel slow to me and id be itching to boost the whole time.

So, whats the general speed like? How fast can you get? and does the sword play really put a screaming halt to your run through the levels.

Nice one.

-Andy

[Diogenes]

And some people don't even care if a game is good, only that it's consistent with previous games. So many times on GameFAQs, when I say that being fun and well-made is all that matters, the most common response is "So you don't really care if it's a Sonic game or not?"

I think that's a fair point tho'. A good game is a good game, but it isn't necessarily a good Sonic game. I'm all for breaking free of the "Sonic 4" mentality, but you've got to put a limit on it before it becomes some other game that just happens to have Sonic's face on it.

If all you want is a good game, there's thousands upon thousands of them out there already. If you want a good Sonic game...well, the only chance you have is the Sonic series, and unfortunately they haven't been doing that lately.

[123654]

I think that's a fair point tho'. A good game is a good game, but it isn't necessarily a good Sonic game. I'm all for breaking free of the "Sonic 4" mentality, but you've got to put a limit on it before it becomes some other game that just happens to have Sonic's face on it.

If all you want is a good game, there's thousands upon thousands of them out there already. If you want a good Sonic game...well, the only chance you have is the Sonic series, and unfortunately they haven't been doing that lately.

True. I just don't think the games necessarily need to have every element of the old ones. But naturally some consistency is needed.

[Silver Moon]

What's with Jet randomly being in there though? I don't know if he's just a 2 player character or what, but for some reason, it's kinda odd to see him on the list of characters...

I'm quite surprised Jet even appeared in the game. Out of all the possible characters, I didn't see that coming. o_0

After hearing mixed opinions about the game, I'd much rather play it myself (and I will) to see whether or not I would enjoy it.

[Zero2A]

So we should drop the homing attack, ring dash, light attack, grinding and other great movesets? Along with years and years of plot and character development?

I couldn't stop but laugh at your post.

Sonic HAS gone downhill since the old Genesis days, shoving in new characters, movesets and crap just ruins the simplicity and pick up and go gameplay off the old Sonic games. ANYONE could play Sonic back then, it only required one button, it was pretty damn easy at the start and it didn't have long character development and storylines.

The only time I've seen a storyline work well was in Adventure 1, Adventure 2. The only thing that has came close to that recently was Unleashed, and that was still bad in respect compared to them. Especially with the cheapness of the ending.

And before you're saying I'm an "old school fanboy" I don't care, I liked the Adventure series and Unleashed. They are the only games I've actually found fun in the past years, excluding the handheld games(which are amazing except Advance 2), so flame me all you want. But this is just my opinion on what I think is wrong with the series.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Krigo

[SuperLink]

I don't get what's so favourable about Unleashed's story. It's light hearted and kinda funny, but it's very weak and bland too, it's just Sonic Adventure, but without the character development (or references), except Chip, but he matters about as much as Shahra in the grand scheme of things.

I'll tell you which 3D game has a story comparable to old Sonic, Sonic Heroes. Simple "Eggman tries to take over the world" story, followed by awesome return of Metal Sonic (a bit mutated but still). Even if the game itself wasn't that great. I generally think that people who think the story doesn't work well are people who havn't played Sonic Battle or Sonic Chronicles. If you have then I forgive you, but they're defo some of the best story in the series.

Edited March 5, 2009 by SuperLink

[123654]

I don't get what's so favourable about Unleashed's story. It's light hearted and kinda funny, but it's very weak and bland too, it's just Sonic Adventure, but without the character development (or references), except Chip, but he matters about as much as Shahra in the grand scheme of things.

I'll tell you which 3D game has a story comparable to old Sonic, Sonic Heroes. Simple "Eggman tries to take over the world" story, followed by awesome return of Metal Sonic (a bit mutated but still). Even if the game itself wasn't that great. I generally think that people who think the story doesn't work well are people who havn't played Sonic Battle or Sonic Chronicles. If you have then I forgive you, but they're defo some of the best story in the series.

Actually, the old games had very deep stories if you read the Japanese manuals. The backstories of the old games are about as deep as the story for The Legend of Zelda on the NES. It just seems to have little plot because there were no cutscenes back then.

[Zero2A]

I agree with Sonic Battle's storyline being one of the best in the series, it was easily comparable to an RPG and the game was pretty addictive, worked well and was challenging. The only problem I'd have to say was how cheap some of the enemies could be sometimes. Damn, you make me want to find my copy now.

I unfortunately haven't played The Dark Brotherhood, but since it's by Bioware I can expect a pretty damn awesome game storyline wise and gameplay wise. I'll probably pick it up when it gets cheap.

[SuperLink]

There ya go then, -1 for Sonic purists That and they constantly forget the Advance series. I'm also gonne mention the cartoons and comics again, because they seem to hold a place of nostalgia for most Sonic fans, yet when a story is OK in comics or cartoons and it's not OK in the games, you know something's not quite right.

Namely the nostalgia goggles are set to "blind".

EDIT: In an effort to get back on topic, while thinking about Black Knight I remembered that long episode of AoSTH (the time travelling one!) and realised that Sonic went to medeival times, Merlin was there, arthur was there (I think) and Sonic was depicted holding a sword. The moment it's in a game though, OH THE DRAMAS!

EDIT2: Apparantly ST actually liked BioWare's awesome little story, so hopefully this means it'll remain canon for future use.

Edited March 5, 2009 by SuperLink

[Ryan Brown]

I agree with Sonic Battle's storyline being one of the best in the series, it was easily comparable to an RPG and the game was pretty addictive, worked well and was challenging. The only problem I'd have to say was how cheap some of the enemies could be sometimes. Damn, you make me want to find my copy now.

I unfortunately haven't played The Dark Brotherhood, but since it's by Bioware I can expect a pretty damn awesome game storyline wise and gameplay wise. I'll probably pick it up when it gets cheap.

And you would be right. Story's very well written. Gameplay needs polish, however. It'd be better off on a console, but it's great where it is.

[SuperStingray]

This game has one of the worst storylines in any game period.

Why? I think it's one of the BEST storylines in any game period.

From what I feel,

1. It's been far too long since any Sonic game had a plot twist that was actually thought out or genuinely surprising. I was expecting Merlina just to be another Sharah or Elise, bringing out Sonic's inner pansy. Instead, not only does she end up being the final boss, but whether or not Sonic is actually doing the right thing this time is... debatable. I'm telling you, this is fuckin' BioShock quality story right here.

2. Sonic showed his cool, humorous and serious sides without being overly cheesy. Seeing Sonic swallow that Chili Dog whole looking like at the Black Knight like he was in a standoff was just awesome and hilarious simultaneously. Plus, Sonic's relationship to Caliburn was humorous and well developed.

3. I don't care what anyone says, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze and Sonic dressed as knights is badass beyond belief in my book.

SatBK's story is painfully bad.

Sonic is the real King Aurthur, which I find hilarious because they treat "Arthur" like it's a title rather than a name. I also find the idea of Sonic being the Once and Future King to be absurd.

And I find this as a criticism to be absurd. I highly doubt that volcanic mines and the like existed in Medieval England, nor did people that look like Russian dolls, so what logic prevents the name King Arthur from being a title or Sonic from being him? It's only based on the story, it doesn't have to live up to it fully.

I think that's a fair point tho'. A good game is a good game, but it isn't necessarily a good Sonic game. I'm all for breaking free of the "Sonic 4" mentality, but you've got to put a limit on it before it becomes some other game that just happens to have Sonic's face on it.

As far as mainstream games go, definitely. But I still think there should be creative license as far as branches and spinoffs go.

[Indigo Rush]

I couldn't stop but laugh at your post.

Sonic HAS gone downhill since the old Genesis days, shoving in new characters, movesets and crap just ruins the simplicity and pick up and go gameplay off the old Sonic games. ANYONE could play Sonic back then, it only required one button, it was pretty damn easy at the start and it didn't have long character development and storylines.

The only time I've seen a storyline work well was in Adventure 1, Adventure 2. The only thing that has came close to that recently was Unleashed, and that was still bad in respect compared to them. Especially with the cheapness of the ending.

And before you're saying I'm an "old school fanboy" I don't care, I liked the Adventure series and Unleashed. They are the only games I've actually found fun in the past years, excluding the handheld games(which are amazing except Advance 2), so flame me all you want. But this is just my opinion on what I think is wrong with the series.

*puts coffee mug down and rubs forehead*

Eehhhh... let me rephrase.

Yes, not all of the moves are exactly good. I'll admit to hating the ever-loving cow excrement out of the boost, sidestep and in some cases, even the light attack, yes, the thing I was just defending. I know they aren't simple. But is it such a crime for something to move forward while keeping the same style? Sonic can maintain his beloved speed and pinball physics while having some extra tricks up his glove. We've seen it in Sonic Adventure. Sonic plays fairly well with the homing attack and other movesets, wich only take two buttons to use. I hope two buttons isn't too complicated for you guys, if it is, you'll be better off throwing away any game system you have. I didn't think this was the case.

A storyline is a storyline. The old Sonic was arcade style anyway, just complete a level and get a high score by the end. The story just adds a reason to it. It shouldn't matter how corny it is, just as long as it moves the gameplay along. Have they been doing a good job as of late? Not exactly, but does that mean it can't?

I'm not saying you are an oldschool fanboy for pointing these things out. They are relevant and are important to consider. No one is going to have their opinions trashed. Some people have closed minds, and that bugs me, but I'm not going to flame anyone. I'll debate, but not attack or flame. I'm sorry if you thought that I'm the kind of person to be unreasonably defensive about my opinions on a video game series.

[Dr. Mechano]

I don't get what's so favourable about Unleashed's story. It's light hearted and kinda funny, but it's very weak and bland too, it's just Sonic Adventure, but without the character development (or references), except Chip, but he matters about as much as Shahra in the grand scheme of things.

Unleashed had character development for Eggman, sort of. We saw what he does behind the scenes, showing that behind his fierce public image, he's just a normal guy who likes to eat sandwiches and relax in his comfortable lair. It's not much, sure, but it does sort of confirm what I've always suspected about him. Plus it scores more "nice guy" points from him not starving his prisoners.

[Ryan Brown]

2. Sonic showed his cool, humorous and serious sides without being overly cheesy. Seeing Sonic swallow that Chili Dog whole looking like at the Black Knight like he was in a standoff was just awesome and hilarious simultaneously. Plus, Sonic's relationship to Caliburn was humorous and well developed.

3. I don't care what anyone says, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze and Sonic dressed as knights is badass beyond belief in my book.

There's a LOAD of candidates for "Coolest Sonic Moment" in this game. Seriously.

[EXshad]

Well, I rented the game, and...I can't say it isn't disappointing. It's not BAD, in my opinion, in fact, it has some pretty amazing factors, but overall, it's not quite what I was hoping for.

First, the good stuff. The graphics are stellar. Probably the best on the Wii. The cutscenes are entertaining, and the voice over work is hands down the best in a Sonic game yet. The music is phenomenal, with LOADS of popular talent: Crush 40 is back with new amazing songs, Lisa Lisa, Tommy Tallerico, and MARTY FRIGGIN' FRIEDMAN all helped composed this incredible soundtrack. There's also lots of extras and stuff to do, which adds a lot to the replay value.

But the gameplay and story is where it falls short. The gameplay is mostly well-done: while not the speediest of Sonic games, the combat is fast-paced and flows nicely with the level design, though having Sonic strafe left and right while running is a bit of a pain. The real failing, however, is the sword controls. Attacking is mindless, requiring you just to just flair your arm around like a total stoner, and you really have to move that wiimote to make sure you actually CAN attack. This leads to an extremely sore arm, worse than even the infamous fap-cramp. The levels do leave a bit to be desired, as they're not brimming with originality and show lots of potential areas you could run through that are blocked off. And lastly, while the game itself is brimming with replayability, it's SHORT. I played about an hour and 10 minutes, and already I'm 1/3 of a way done with the game. It's sad, 'cause the story is actually...pretty good, at least for a Sonic game. I'd say it would leave me begging for something far more fleshed out, but...the terrible waggle controls kinda make me rethink that statement.

And I haven't tried the multiplayer, but while it sounds pretty forgettable, it seems like a drop in the pond that I'd rather have than not; it adds to the replay factor, and lets some friends jump in on the fun.

More good things are that you can play as 3 other characters with unique moves, and they are COMPLETELY optional, and there's a pretty solid enhancement system in the game.

I can't rate it now, but...it's alright, I guess. Not worth an 8, but certainly not bad enough to merit a 3.9. IGN seriously needs to stop cramming their ideal image of Sonic down our throats in each of their reviews and remember that this is a spin-off.

Edited March 5, 2009 by EXshad

[Phil]

I need to rent this game as soon as possible and see if it's any good to buy or not.

From what I've heard from nearly everyone is that the gameplay sucks so I'd rather try it out first even though I'll probably end up buying it anyway.

[Diogenes]

As far as mainstream games go, definitely. But I still think there should be creative license as far as branches and spinoffs go.

Yeah, I'd be fine with some spinoffs that take things in a different direction...as long as they got the main series working right first, and they still invested a decent amount of effort into the spinoffs so that they might be worth buying.

[SuperStingray]

Yeah, I'd be fine with some spinoffs that take things in a different direction...as long as they got the main series working right first, and they still invested a decent amount of effort into the spinoffs so that they might be worth buying.

All I think Sonic Team needs is a rather flexible, yet long term plan for the series. I think one of the problems with the mainstream series itself is that it isn't completely solid. I don't think anyone can say that they like or dislike the direction the series is going in because it's really just going in circles after SA2. I'm rather neutral on the subject, but from my understanding the consensus is generally that Heroes was too kiddy, Shadow was too dark, Sonic 06 was too WTF, Sonic Unleashed was too different. I'm not necessarily in agreement. But either way, the tone and gameplay of the mainstream series just needs more focus; if it's as much of a priority as the spinoffs, the series is just going to end up wandering like a drunk schizophrenic playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. (I just watched Yahtzee. )

[Ryan Brown]

All I think Sonic Team needs is a rather flexible, yet long term plan for the series. I think one of the problems with the mainstream series itself is that it isn't completely solid. I don't think anyone can say that they like or dislike the direction the series is going in because it's really just going in circles after SA2. I'm rather neutral on the subject, but from my understanding the consensus is generally that Heroes was too kiddy, Shadow was too dark, Sonic 06 was too WTF, Sonic Unleashed was too different. I'm not necessarily in agreement. But either way, the tone and gameplay of the mainstream series just needs more focus; if it's as much of a priority as the spinoffs, the series is just going to end up wandering like a drunk schizophrenic playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. (I just watched Yahtzee. )

I'm gonna have to agree here. They need to find an approach that works universally and run with it.

[Phos]

And some people don't even care if a game is good, only that it's consistent with previous games. So many times on GameFAQs, when I say that being fun and well-made is all that matters, the most common response is "So you don't really care if it's a Sonic game or not?"

I must ask you two questions: (there are actually to anyone, not just AXB)

1. Has any Sonic game that stayed true to the original formula ever been bad?

2. Has a Sonic game that followed the post adventure model ever been a landmark title in the industry to the same scale as the classics?

I said the new games play like SatAM spinoffs, in that they're very linear and feature Sonic flinging himself around in the air randomly. Spinball is a SatAM tie in, but doesn't play like it (it honestly plays like they tried to take a special stage concept and turn it into a whole game.

As for Sonic being cool in this game...

He isn't. He has no attitude outside of bitching at his sword. He makes a many a 4Kids esque pun (To his sword: "Stay Sharp!").

These lines wouldn't be cool if they were delivered by Steve McQueen.

Which I think is an interesting example: Steve McQueen, John Wane, Al Pacino, none of them talk more than they need to. Sonic, on the other hand, spouts off a (rather corny) line every chance he gets like the annoying kid on the playground trying to act cool, or like your little brother at your birthday party.

And when I said that they need to throw out everything post Sonic 3K and try again anew in 3D, I thought it would be implied that they would include new things that don't get in the way of the core elements.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Phos

[Gabz Girl]

So I found out that Silver is Sir Galahad and Jet is Sir Lamorak.

Heyyy, I remember someone saying Silver might turn out to be Galahad aka Lancelot's son (oh my :0). Good call there. XP I just never expected Jet to appear in this game.

[Tyranno]

I said the new games play like SatAM spinoffs, in that they're very linear and feature Sonic flinging himself around in the air randomly. Spinball is a SatAM tie in, but doesn't play like it (it honestly plays like they tried to take a special stage concept and turn it into a whole game.

....

I... what?

Seriously, what?

Not only do you say something nonsensical, but in the very next line you contradict it completely. What other "SatAM spin offfs are there"? Mean Bean Machine? That's a puzzle game. That one that they were planning but was never made?

Seriously, wtf are you talking about?

[Dr. Mechano]

Not only do you say something nonsensical, but in the very next line you contradict it completely. What other "SatAM spin offfs are there"? Mean Bean Machine? That's a puzzle game. That one that they were planning but was never made?

Seriously, wtf are you talking about?

Mean Bean Machine was an AoStH spinoff, though.

Spinball was sort of a hybrid of SatAM, AoStH, and Sega elements. It had the freedom fighters and Cluck (SatAM), Scratch (AoStH), game-inspired Badniks and the Tornado (Sega), and huge off-model Robotnik (Some unholy mix of all three).

[Solid SOAP]

The problem with Spinball is that the controls were awful and very unlike the good and fun pinball controls in previous Sonic games.

[Tyranno]

Yeah, that's ANOTHER reason why what he's saying doesn't make sense.

I assumed he was just talking about games that take too much from the US material.

Either way, it makes no sense at all.