The Death of Spider-man. (Ultimate Version)

[DarkDefeater]

This is a discussion thread about the death of Spider-man in the ultimate version of marvel comics. Does anyone know any details about it? All I really know that this version of spider-man is killed at the hands of the green goblin.

Spidey has a lot of allies, from SHIELD, to the x-men, to the ultimates, to the fantastic four, so this loss is going to hit the ultimate super hero community hard.

Here's a link with some of the information. http://comicpoplibrary.com/news/ultimate-spider-mans-death/

A new spider-man will be replacing peter parker.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/watercooler/article/269824/71/Marvel-See-Peter-Parkers-Ultimate-Spider-Man-replacement

What do you guys think of all this? How will aunt may handle all this? Will peter come back as a clone? The spider-man that just has been killed - is he a clone?

What will the other heroes do? Will some be motivated to take darker measures against the goblin? (hope so).

The possibilities are many.

[Conando]

You know, this isn't going to go well at all. Also, how are they going to explain that some random kid has the same exact powers?

[Tornado]

Well, they already fucked up regular Spiderman beyond repair. Might as well make everyone hate every version of the character while they are at it.

[Balding Spider]

Also, how are they going to explain that some random kid has the same exact powers?

I'll just point you right over towards that whole Spider-Island arc, and their genetically altered bed bugs that give out free spidey powers to random citizens. But in all seriousness it really wouldn't be all that difficult to explain how he got his spider powers. I mean Dr. Conners did manage to get a sample of Peters DNA after all. And for all we know Miles powers could differ from peters, hell there could even be side effects.

Edit: Forgot to mention that in addition to Conners Dr. Octopus also got his hands on Peters DNA. Yeah that whole Ultimate clone saga thing.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Balding Spider

[PeanutButterDimond]

I don't read comics much, but I have a few volumes of the Ultimate. What's the point o killing Peter?

[Blue Wisp]

What is this I don't even.

NOT ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, HE'S MY FAVORITE SPIDER-MAN AFTER 2066 D:!

FUCK YOU MARVEL.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Oh great, another "New Cola" superhero story. Don't worry, "Classic Cola" will be back in a year or less.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Grumpy Old Guy

[Balding Spider]

I don't read comics much, but I have a few volumes of the Ultimate. What's the point o killing Peter?

It's standard, it really is. All heroes must die at sometime. Batman get's killed by Darkseids omega beams (that apparently only destroys his body and sends his soul spiraling into random time periods and manifest a second body for him... I guess), Hal Jordan sacrifices himself to reignite the sun (after having his home town get destroyed, goes bat shit nuts, adopts a new persona, becomes possessed by a giant yellow bug monster, and slaughters most of his friends), and Superman got bludgeoned to death by a hulking monstrosity (yeah that's it really). But they all come back! In some way, shape, or form they always return to the series.

Nothing ever stays the same, all things go back to the way they once were.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Balding Spider

[Saint Nathan]

They killed Spiderman?

What?

That's on it's own just a stupid move.

[PeanutButterDimond]

It's standard, it really is. All heroes must die at sometime. Batman get's killed by Darkseids omega beams (that apparently only destroys his body and sends his soul spiraling into random time periods and manifest a second body for him... I guess), Hal Jordan sacrifices himself to reignite the sun (after having his home town get destroyed, goes bat shit nuts, adopts a new persona, becomes possessed by a giant yellow bug monster, and slaughters most of his friends), and Superman got bludgeoned to death by a hulking monstrosity (yeah that's it really). But they all come back! In some way, shape, or form they always return to the series.

Nothing ever stays the same, all things go back to the way they once were.

[Speederino]

EDIT: I just realized that this topic has not dug into the controversy. At all. Well here it is folks, ethnic diversity for the sake of ethnic diversity.

That's right, instead of having someone we've actually met take up the mantle, it's a completely new character with a completely different cast and he's being hailed as a welcome change by Marvel because he's both black AND hispanic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKayLq1d5Bs

Anyways, I am posting this for the third time today:

I think the people saying that it doesn't matter since the mainstream Spider-Man is still Peter are all missing the point. I can't speak for everyone who hates this change, but personally I just don't like that this is a character we have never seen or heard of, and is only being made black/hispanic in order to be ethnically diverse- something that even black and hispanic people are groaning over in these comments. While I don't personally like having characters 'taking up the mantle' in comic (With some exceptions), I technically have nothing against a Spider-Man who isn't Peter Parker, or a Spider-Man who isn't white. If this guy had been introduced to us before now, and had been established as one of Peter's friends that could conceivably take up the mantle, then fine. Or even if they had decided to make this into an Ultimate version of Miguel O' Hara and his villains/supporting cast, that too could have been cool.

But nope, brand new character, brand new supporting cast, most likely brand new villains...a superhero is so much more then a costume or a mantle. The person underneath the mask is what makes a superhero who they are. Peter Parker IS Spider-Man, Bruce Wayne IS Batman, Clark Kent IS Superman. It's not just powers and tights. It's why I never actually felt like I was reading Batman when he was replaced with an Iron Man/Punisher wannabe, it's why I never felt like I was reading Spider-Man when Ben Reiley took over, it's why why people hated Frank Castle as Captain America. It just isn't the same without the people who defined what it is to be the specific hero. Maybe Miles will end up being a really great, fun character. Maybe his supporting cast will be the best thing to ever happen to comics. But without Peter Parker, without Mary Jane or Aunt May or Gwen Stacey, without Jameson or the Osbornes to turn Spidey's life into a living hell, it just isn't Spider-Man. It's somebody pretending to be someone else, especially when they have no ties to the supporting cast whatsoever.

Further, if they wanted to make a superhero with a more ethnically-diverse cast, then why not just make a new super hero? Answer: because only hardcore comic fans will hear about it. Marvel wants new readers, and they want to appeal to a larger audience. Since no one will hear about a new super hero, they have to do it with a popular mainstream hero that everyone knows...like Spider-Man. A move like that is more likely to gain attention in the media then a new hero ever would.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Speederino

[Meow]

The ethnicity doesn't bother me. In fact none of it does, I can attest that I am certainly just a casual follower of the Spiderman comics despite him being my fave superhero, mainly for monetary reasons (comics are an expensive hobby if you want a lot of them...). I do say though in general I am just a tad worried because he simply isn't Peter Parker, but if the stories are written well and the artwork is great in the stories with this new Spiderman, I'll be satisfied. Besides, Peter is still Spiderman in the other comics so I can always read those

I just want to say though, the thing that I like the most about all this that even if everything else sucked...

Is I just love this design so much. I think it's pretty awesome looking.

[Remy]

New suit is pretty nice I must admit- reminds me heaps of batman beyond though.

[Sami]

I'm going to to be honest, I don't like the replacement. Not because he isn't white, but because he isn't Peter Parker. I just don't see the point of this.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Dissident

[Eternal EX]

Is I just love this design so much. I think it's pretty awesome looking.

[Senator NinjaShark]

THEN WHAT'S THE POINT!?

Edited August 6, 2011 by Mr. NinjaShark

[DSP001]

While it's obviously a make him ethnic for the sake of it kinda thing, I'm interested in how this turns out, with this being the ultimate series I'm actually inclined to believe that this time Peter might just stay dead. It would be an incredible feat if they pull it off, and after all the real Peter parker is still alive in the original universe.

[PeanutButterDimond]

Okay, as much as I don't like Peter dying, I love this image.

Edited August 3, 2011 by PeanutButterDimond

[-Mark-]

See, this is one thing that annoys me about Western comics in general. Countless universes and continuities aside (although Sonic is somewhat guilty of that too, again, largely in part to the old Western continuities), it's that they're almost stuck in a cycle.

When a Western comic starts up, they don't plan out a story; they plan out a concept. I doubt the writers of Spider-Man, Batman, Superman and all the other superheroes have been, or are, writing towards and working to an ultimate 'ending'; series of this nature are never going to end, and that's part of their problem. Because they're such huge franchises and there's so much money involved, they can't end. They can never really kill anyone off, and nothing overly significant can happen in the plot. It's the same fate that the Archie Sonic comics are stuck in, really, although at least Archie can kill off non-game characters. But at the end of the day, you know that ultimately, everything's going to be pretty much the same as it always has been, and always will be. I guess that just makes it all feel kind of pointless, to me.

Not wanting to risk sounding like a fanboy here, but that's one thing I prefer about manga. More often than not, the creator will actually set out with an end in sight; and end that, throughout the run of the series, they're constantly working toward. As such, it feels a lot more structured, and as a reader, I feel like there's actually a sense of progress. In the case of most Western comic franchises, it seems to be more a case of "What ideas can we come up with to keep this comic going forever?". It just seems endless, and like it never really feels like it's going anywhere.

I guess that's the problem. Because these comics are basically existing on a permanent extension strategy, the writers need to come up with every single idea they possibly can in order to have a new story to print every issue. Hence, we get asspull stunts like these; It's a totally cheap way to 'kill' the main character without actually really killing them. They can kill Spider-Man, Batman or whoever, and even on the rare off-chance they actually stay dead, they'll just be replaced by someone else taking on the role and name, and nothing will really change.

As others have said, it's the ultimate cheap trick to grab attention and sales, really. It's kind of a shame that the West is so desperate to cling to its series as cash cows at the cost of storytelling. I mean, yes, franchises like Spider-Man practically print money, but so do things like Naruto in Japan, and that's still coming to and end soon. Hell, DragonBall was the ultimate moneyspinner back in the day, and they still let that end. Yet it's still a massive franchise, somehow. I don't know, maybe it's just different culture. But the way I see it, so long as Western comic are existing purely for the sake of putting out a new issue every month, and putting infinite longevity before storytelling, they'll be stuck in this cycle of everything staying the same, whilst occasionally clutching at straws and making desperate plays like this to do something 'different'.

[turbojet]

I'll point out the sheer stupidity of this move. Ultimate Spider-man is getting an animated series that is coming out next year, a movie that is based off it, and games. So killing him was beyond stupid. The Ultimate community has the most crass bunch of superheroes with the exception of Iceman, Human Torch, Iron Man and Shadowcat. Everybody in this continuity is a bunch of assholes with the exception of Spider-man. Ultimate Spider-man sells well regardless and his death really didn't do much for the sales. Sure, Ultimate Fallout sold out, but it wasn't substantially better than it already does on an issue to issue basis. You killed the heart and soul of an entire universe so nobody will want to read about the others linked to him. You killed the source material for the movie so you won't get additional sales that might come with it's release. You killed the source material of the animated series being made by Paul Dini and we all know Dini is going to go off rails from the comic so there won't be any benefit from there.

Fuck you, Marvel. You killed the only great Spider-man adaption. 616 Spidey is glorified fanfiction that it's creator,Stan Lee, doesn't even acknowledge. Bendis was doing terrific with Peter Parker, the character, so killing him is just a loss. Marvel forgot what made Spider-man different from everyother series.

Also, Bendis is not a fan of resurrecting characters. He has only done it once with Green Goblin and that is because Goblins have a habit of resurrection so it was okay.

Edited August 3, 2011 by turbojet

[PeanutButterDimond]

You know, I was reading Volume six, the one with Venom and the suit and I find myself really liking Peter. Which only makes me hate the decisioon to kill off Peter even more.Especially when Nick Fury talks about how great of a superhero Peter will be when he's grown up.

Also, I don't see how the film is based off the Ultimate books. From the news I've been keeping up with, it sounds like a mix of a new interpretation and 616. Doesn't seem very Ultimate inspired to be honest. At least not from what i've read a heard of Ultimate.

Edited August 3, 2011 by PeanutButterDimond

[turbojet]

You know, I was reading Volume six, the one with Venom and the suit and I find myself really liking Peter. Which only makes me hate the decisioon to kill off Peter even more.Especially when nick Fury talks about how great of a superhero Peter will be when he's grown up.

Also, I don't see how the film is based off the Ultimate books. From the news I've been keeping up with, it sounds like a mix of a new interpretation and 616. Doesn't seem very Ultimate inspired to be honest. At least not from what i've read a heard of Ultimate.

It is based off the Ultimate comics by mentioning his parents(Stan Lee's Spidey didn't until much later) and his youth and activity during his highschool years. His look(Andrew Garfield looks just like a young Peter Parker with a haircut) is based off Ultimate Spider-man. Gwen Stacey being love interest number one is Stan Lee's and Dikto's creation, but Mary Jane probably won't be introduced until much later.

Why Ultimate Spider-man was great.

I've been wanting more black super-heroes...but with their own shtick.

Edited August 3, 2011 by turbojet

[Remy]

It is based off the Ultimate comics by mentioning his parents(Stan Lee's Spidey didn't until much later) and his youth and activity during his highschool years. His look(Andrew Garfield looks just like a young Peter Parker with a haircut) is based off Ultimate Spider-man. Gwen Stacey being love interest number one is Stan Lee's and Dikto's creation, but Mary Jane probably won't be introduced until much later.

Oh damn, really? having the movie based of the now dead pete is going to be awkward...

I've been wanting more black super-heroes...but with their own shtick.

ya, I have no issues with the new spidey's ethnicity, really. I have issue that there's a new spidey.

[PeanutButterDimond]

It is based off the Ultimate comics by mentioning his parents(Stan Lee's Spidey didn't until much later) and his youth and activity during his highschool years. His look(Andrew Garfield looks just like a young Peter Parker with a haircut) is based off Ultimate Spider-man. Gwen Stacey being love interest number one is Stan Lee's and Dikto's creation, but Mary Jane probably won't be introduced until much later.

But how is mention his parents like the Ultimate comics if Stan lee's Spidey still did that? We don't even know how they will handle his parents yet.

The old comics went in to his highschool years as well(Though not as much as the Ultimate comics. Was Peter even out of Highschool yet?).

I actually do see a resemblence now... sort of. Which is fine by me because I like how Peter looks in Ultimate Spider-Man.

I agree about the new Spidey. I know Marvel wants to boost sales by killing off a character every quarter... but.... killing off Peter is just a really bad idea.

[turbojet]

But how is mention his parents like the Ultimate comics if Stan lee's Spidey still did that? We don't even know how they will handle his parents yet.

The old comics went in to his highschool years as well(Though not as much as the Ultimate comics. Was Peter even out of Highschool yet?).

I actually do see a resemblence now... sort of. Which is fine by me because I like how Peter looks in Ultimate Spider-Man.

I agree about the new Spidey. I know Marvel wants to boost sales by killing off a character every quarter... but.... killing off Peter is just a really bad idea.

Stan Lee's creation has Peter Parker's parents act as secret agents.They die on the job. Ultimate has Peter Parker's parent get killed on a trip to a science summit along with Eddie's parents. This was made to make the rivalry between Eddie and Peter have more substance. Guess which the movie chose?

And Peter Parker never left highschool. He was only Spider-man for a year and a half. It sucks that much, man.

Edited August 3, 2011 by turbojet