If you could change one thing of all Sonic games.

[Kuzu]

Also agree with the Shadow staing dead argument, he hasn't reall added anything worthwhile to the series after that.

Neither has anyone else if you're going by this argument, so does that mean we should kill off everyone else too?

[Gamenerd]

Okay, if I haven't seen this in this entire forum then all you guys should be fired.

You know what the Sonic games need? Animal NPC's. Not just the goddamn animal friends, but animals that are actually anthro like the loads of characters.

I agree with this too :V

I used to think, in the Genesis games at least, that the small animals did serve as a pretty good representation of the number of animal citizens of the Sonic world; due to the ambiguity of the games, I was pretty sure Sonic and co. were only bigger than them for gameplay purposes - Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were big important characters that needed to be easily visible on the screen, whereas the small animals were smaller because they simply weren't important, they were throwaway critters escaping from machines that didn't need to have a very big screen presence. It was a visual exaggeration in my eyes, as all other forms of media had rabbits and squirrels and such being just as large as Sonic and Tails.

But then Sonic Adventure came along; all of the anthro cast got even bigger, and all of the animals got even smaller, to the point of elephants being no bigger than Flickies and other such ridiculous phenomena.

In fact, that's what I'd do if I was to reboot the series. Bring back the plot element of Eggman trapping animals in machines, but redistribute character sizes so that Sonic and friends are all the size of the animal friends, shrinking the main cast down slightly and adding a bit of size to the critters. After all, how much bigger than a Flicky should a Hedgehog be? Then they could populate little grassy GHZ-esque towns with Flickies, Rickies and so on. It'd be ace.

Not that I endorse a reboot in any way - they've got a pretty good flow going on right now, so no reason to abandon it.

[BigArm]

Neither has anyone else if you're going by this argument, so does that mean we should kill off everyone else too?

Hang on did i miss something? I just feel it sort of ruined the significance of the ending of SA2 once they brought him back, and while some liked the whole amnesia/GUN storys they gave him after, it just really didn't seem that nessesary imo. And no, I don't really think killing anyone off is a good idea, if it seems I'd have Shadow killed off now if I could I wouldn't do, hes a popular member of the cast, I was just answering in how I thought the topic was asking, because back then I personnally think it would have been a better move.

[Kuzu]

Hang on did i miss something? I just feel it sort of ruined the significance of the ending of SA2 once they brought him back, and while some liked the whole amnesia/GUN storys they gave him after, it just really didn't seem that nessesary imo. And no, I don't really think killing anyone off is a good idea, if it seems I'd have Shadow killed off now if I could I wouldn't do, hes a popular member of the cast, I was just answering in how I thought the topic was asking, because back then I personnally think it would have been a better move.

But popular character come back all the time, it was handled poorly but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened.

[HUNTER297]

Now while I think keeping Shadow dead wouldn't really solve anything, because we still would've got Heroes, and 06 would've focused probably on Silver, both games would still suck.

I would however make Shadow's return MUCH later, to give it more impact. Him dying then coming back one game later felt really anti-climatic, if they maybe waited a game or two it would've been not only more believable, but leave much more of an impact.

Ok not that I have a problem with your idea, but how and why Shadow & Silver would become villains? Hell unlike Shadow, Silver was never a villain to begin with, so why would he suddenly go to the dark side, I like details please.

Well. Noone said this can be possible change :b

But if I would make backstory I would cancel Heroes-Shadow and begin from Rush. (note Shadow was dead) Now Eggman Nega go to Eggman and says that he can recreate Shadow. He brang Silver with him he would be some kind of rival to Blaze) Shadow will be recreated, noone will belive. They would make new Death Egg. Sonic got help from Blaze and fight Shadow and Silver in Space (both ARK and Death Egg that was transported from Rush dimension) Then epic fight etc.

In the end Shadow will live and escape with Silver and EGGMAN because NEGA will die. Well everything else is explained in my first post.

It could be a what if Spin-off game.

[Balding Spider]

Change one thing huh? That's a toughie.

I'd either have Shadow stay dead, or remove rid of all of the giant God monsters from the games (excluding Chaos of course).

[Skull Leader]

Mmm.. maybe Big's debut by giving him a fun gameplay style.

[Neon]

I'd make Sonic's personality and characterisation consistant throughout the series. I'd want him to keep hold of the personality and characterisation that are in the storybook games. It's great.

It's too inconsistant at the moment. One game we get Sonic talking about the morales of life, the next, we get Sonic making jokes about underpants. One game we get Sonic being as dull as a cucumber - Sonic '06, the next, we get Sonic never shutting up - Sonic Colours.

I'd also keep the SOAP shoes.

[John F. Kennedy]

I'd give Sonic his personality from Zero Gravity. I liked dat.

I wouldn't have brought back Shadow so soon in Heroes RIGHT AFTER he passed out in spaced.

I'd put Knuckles back in all the games. He's part of the Sonic Team.

I'd have continued the Heroes series since it was praised and could've done with a few tweaks.

ID ALSO STOP MAKIN EVERYONE AS FAST AS SONIC. He's supposed to be the fastest thing alive, and he's not. Almost everybody in the series is able to run at his same speed.

I'd have told Microsoft who's boss and finished 06.

And... I'd also put Silver in all the games that shadow is in. The whole Team Hedgehog needs to be there whenever 2 of them are already there.

Edit. And like the guy above me said, I'd give him his Soap Shoes back.

Edited August 3, 2011 by MetalSilver

[Kuzu]

I'd make Sonic's personality and characterisation consistant throughout the series. I'd want him to keep hold of the personality and characterisation that are in the storybook games. It's great.

It's too inconsistant at the moment. One game we get Sonic talking about the morales of life, the next, we get Sonic making jokes about underpants. One game we get Sonic being as dull as a cucumber - Sonic '06, the next, we get Sonic never shutting up - Sonic Colours.

I'd also keep the SOAP shoes.

Ya know in Colors its really just an exagerration of the storybook series, just saiyan.

[HUNTER297]

I'd give Sonic his personality from Zero Gravity. I liked dat.

I wouldn't have brought back Shadow so soon in Heroes RIGHT AFTER he passed out in spaced.

I'd put Knuckles back in all the games. He's part of the Sonic Team.

I'd have continued the Heroes series since it was praised and could've done with a few tweaks.

ID ALSO STOP MAKIN EVERYONE AS FAST AS SONIC. He's supposed to be the fastest thing alive, and he's not. Almost everybody in the series is able to run at his same speed.

I'd have told Microsoft who's boss and finished 06.

And... I'd also put Silver in all the games that shadow is in. The whole Team Hedgehog needs to be there whenever 2 of them are already there.

Edit. And like the guy above me said, I'd give him his Soap Shoes back.

All this! SO MUCH THIS! Words cant describe how much I agree with you. I think Shadow should return in 06. And this last and edit sentence... SO MUCH THIS!!!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oh, HELL NO!

I'm okay with people not liking a character, but there's a line between criticism and bashing that you're not going to cross without having me beeline on your ass for it. Let's get some thing out in the clear here, because I should've been up when this topic reared these comments.

Actually, if you ever notice, without Shadow half of '06 would need to be completely rewritten.

Rewritten for what? The better? Because here's what you're not realizing: Elise would've still happened, the kiss would've still happened, Iblis would've still happened, Mephilies would've still happened. I'd wager that Sonic Team would've very likely created a whole new character to take Shadow's place had he not been around, in addition to Silver. And who really knows how that would've been considering we were getting tired of new people at that point?

And taking out Shadow wouldn't have done squat to the story's quality, as while the only thing that would be missing is Shadow's role, you'd still have most of the same things that happened in the other stories.

Taking out Shadow would've still left the games with the same problems storywise, and considering how there is absolutely no guarantee that the story would've been better it could've created whole new ones in addition. A series fault is not something a character holds on his shoulder regarding this.

We're not.

He is literally an issue. As I said like two games would more than likely have either never existed or turned out BETTER if he hadn't come back.

In SA2, he was great. He was. He was a good character who did his shit pretty well, and his death wasn't just to git rid of him, it was also closure to his whole story.

They brought him back, and now that's not there any more. He's go no closure and when they tried to do it again it didn't work and was horrible.

It's not that we're all hating on Shadow to be jerks, it would literally be best for everything if he'd stayed dead.

Right now, I'm not seeing that, Nathan. I've seen people who hate on a character without being a jerk about it, however, you're not doing a good job of doing that yourself.

There's absolutely no telling how things would've been without Shadow, whether for best OR for worst. And to say that it would be either case without him is being incredibly naive to probabilities like that which you laid out. If they were crazy enough to give Shadow a gun when they brought him back, who's to say how crazy they wouldn't have been if they were to do it to another existing character who could've done without them as well. Who's to say they would've continued the darker and edgier path with Sonic instead, or which ever character they picked.

Or on the optimistic route, who's to say them bringing back Shadow was an instant sign that he was going to get a game with guns and vehicles in the first place before they announced it? What would've stopped them from making such a game without those things, and what would've prevented that game from actually being good? What would the plot have been like if they knew what they were doing in the first place in regards to how the audience would've looked at that?

Really, do I need to go further?

Sonic Unleashed wasn't the worst game in the series. It's actually one of the better ones. Literally from a objective viewpoint it's way better built and way less glitchy than the two below.

ShTH and '06 were the worst, by far, and Shadow was really almost the only reason '06 existed.

Heroes also sort of to a point but I kinda like Heroes so I don't count it.

So yeah actually you can pretty much blame Shadow for some of the worst games.

It's science.

Really? Because if you go that route, then it wouldn't be too farfetched to say Sonic is even more to blame considering it's his series in the first place. And as a result of that, he shouldn't have produced any more games after Sonic 06. Silver was actually the reason why Sonic 06 existed, since he was the one who was made for the game's use of it's physics while Sonic and Shadow were slow as hell compared to their previous games.

And even then, taking out Shadow wouldn't have guaranteed Sonic 06 being a success or even remotely decent, because that doesn't even bother to solve the countless glitches that the game suffered from which were the real fucking reason why Sonic 06 tanked in the first place. Nor does that even fix the rest of the story that people found problems with all over the game, or even the Amigo characters that were so horribly implemented that they shouldn't have bothered to have them playable.

There are a number of things that was bad with Shadow during that period, but you are outright bashing when you claim that Shadow held any responsibility over why Sonic 06 was in the poor shape that it was.

And on the subject of ShTH,

Agree with the "Shadow staying dead" thing, it would've enhanced his character had he permanently died, fighting for Maria's plea and having realized the meaning of his existence and would have sustained the memorability of that ending. Instead, he got resurrected purely because of his fanboys and that directly contributed to a stain on the series as well as to a stain on himself, namely the game, Shadow the Hedgehog as well as continuing a clone, "Anything Sonic can do I can do better" style of gameplay through further games that is samey.

He was also brought back because Iizuka wanted to make a game for Shadow since SA2 according to what he said in this interview.

So it's not purely because his fans wanted him back. Apparently the developer did too. And this isn't the first time (or character) when someone wanted to bring back a dead character. Zero from the Megaman series died THREE TIMES and came back, with his latest being resurrected as a biometal. Just be glad Shadow only "died" once.

I'd have had Shadow stay dead at the end of Sonic Adventure 2. It's not like he's really added much to the series since, and it's pretty obvious he was originally meant to stay dead anyway. He only got brought back because he was popular and profitable. It's not like he's really contributed much to the series since then, anyway.

Neither have any of the other characters added much to this series since. Tails and Knuckles haven't been doing much of anything worthwhile since after SA2, and Tails is just now climbing out of that with Colors. And then there's Big, Amy, Rouge, Cream, Blaze...really, the only one who's really added anything would be Sonic himself, while all the other characters haven't made jackshit worth of contributions. So where exactly does that leave them? Because I doubt you'd have some of these characters be taken out as well...and if you do, things are going to get even more interesting in this debate.

this is what people seem to miss

i'm not talking about just erasing shadow and leaving everything else the same

i'm talking about leaving shadow dead and having the series continue from that point without him.

and honestly?

I'm fairly confident this would result in some at least SLIGHTLY better games.

How? How would that stop them from using another character to have the role in ShTH instead of Shadow himself? How would that have stopped said character from using a gun? How would that stop Sonic 06 from being a glitchfest and a trainwreck? How would that stopped the werehog from coming into fruition and the critics bashing it? How would that stop all the other problems that didn't involve Shadow?

As confident as you may be, there's no guarantee there would've been SLIGHTLY better games as there's the possibility that there could've been SLIGHTLY worse games given that if Sonic Team was as crazy as they were with the idea of putting gunplay in the series, god knows what else they would've went with in place of that. And I don't think SLIGHTLY better would've been enough for some of those games either.

Shadow had by far the most encompassing and most influential role in Shadow the Hedgehog 2 SONIC '06. Even for such a shit game, he had no right to usurp Sonic from the main role, especially considering the game was called SONIC THE HEDGEHOG and was a 15th anniversary game (It's crappiness is not relevant to this). Ever since Shadow has been brought back, he's been marginalizing Sonic from role in the story to doing his gameplay better and that's what has left a bitter taste in people's mouths. All would have been averted had Sonic Team honored the character's dignity and not have whored-out his popularity by bringing him back from what was undoubtedly written as a definate death in SA2.

Or if Sonic Team didn't whore out his popularity if they kept him alive.

Or if Sonic Team waited before bringing him back alive and kept him a decent character.

Or if Sonic Team overall knew what the fuck they were doing when they decided to bring him back and not ruin his character.

Or if Sonic team kept the character but never made ShTH so that he wouldn't have sunk to such a level he is character-wise.

If you can think of one way this problem could be avoided by keeping him dead, I can think of several ways that same problem could've been avoided even by keeping him alive. Not to mention that his death scene is pretty ambiguous to boot, what with him vanishing in a flash instead of burning up as he fell.

Edited August 4, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Johnny Boy]

I'd make the visuals, the music, sound effects, and gameplay of chronicles a lot better.

[thatguyfrom03]

I would have built upon Sonics stages in Sonic Adventure 1, rather than go for the race tracks with generic stage elements of latter 3d titles. Work on crafting bigger worlds with less automation. 3D sonic should be much farther along than it is.

I know im cheating, but I would never have made Sonic 4 without the original team. It was doomed to fail.

[Kuzu]

I would have built upon Sonics stages in Sonic Adventure 1, rather than go for the race tracks with generic stage elements of latter 3d titles. Work on crafting bigger worlds with less automation. 3D sonic should be much farther along than it is.

I know im cheating, but I would never have made Sonic 4 without the original team. It was doomed to fail.

City Esacpe, City Escape, City Escape.

[#EndyGate]

I would've made Shadow come back as a ghost, i think it would've been a slightly better concept in comparison to an Eggybot catching him whilst reentering the atmosphere. Plus it could give him some gameplay that would separate from Sonic's, like entering and controlling enemies or phasing through obstacles

[Nepenthe]

What I've learned today is that if I ever put myself in a position where it looks like I've given my life for someone else, I sure as hell better sneak off to the mountains and live as a hermit forever, otherwise the very act of my bravery, the actual choice I made, will be marginalized to the point of inciting hatred and blame simply because my brain didn't shut down long enough.

Ironically, how Shadow was handled is one of my choices. I wouldn't have killed off the guy forever though, but stave off his resurrection for a couple of games and completely do away with the amnesia, android, and Black Arms bull when he came back. Merely have him resume his role as a protector of Earth without adding excessive mystery and keep in mind his manipulativeness, sarcasm, penchant for destruction when writing his character. Then he would be fun.

Also, as much as I love the Werehog, I need to ask why he doesn't move similarly to how he did in the Egg Dragoon cut scene. A faster, more nimble Werehog would've been much better.

[Rusty Spy]

You know, after reading through this topic, I'm certain about the one thing I'd change:

Make Shadow's death more ambiguous.

I already pointed out in another topic how we could've avoided all of this if the end of SA2 didn't leave out any hints and nods suggesting Shadow could've survived.

[Kuzu]

You know, after reading through this topic, I'm certain about the one thing I'd change:

Make Shadow's death more ambiguous.

I already pointed out in another topic how we could've avoided all of this if the end of SA2 didn't leave out any hints and nods suggesting Shadow could've survived.

To be fair, he looked more like he warped than fell to the earth, that's what it looked like to me at least.

[Random Rhyme]

Kept the personalities and overall vibe from SA2 since it appealed to a wider age group. Id make most of the series feel like SA2 since it had allot of things that I liked it.....

Had Sonic being cool.

Had Shadow being serious but not angsty.

Had Knuckles tough yet not retarded.

Had Eggman evil and smart and not too goofy.

Had Tails being cool as well and gave him some spotlight.

Had its serious moments without being corny.

Kept the corny moments to a minimum.

Had Super forms even though I could do with Super Sonic and Super Shadow playable in normal levels somehow.

Had a good multiplayer mode Sonic and other speed characters wise. I wasnt a fan of other modes though.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Shade ?

[Unknown User]

Kept the personalities and overall vibe from SA2 since it appealed to a wider age group. Id make most of the series feel like SA2 since it had allot of things that I liked it.....

Had Sonic being cool.

Had Shadow being serious but not angsty.

Had Knuckles tough yet not retarded.

Had Eggman evil and smart and not too goofy.

Had Tails being cool as well and gave him some spotlight.

Had its serious moments without being corny.

Kept the corny moments to a minimum.

Had Super forms even though I could do with Super Sonic and Super Shadow playable in normal levels somehow.

Had a good multiplayer mode Sonic and other speed characters wise. I wasnt a fan of other modes though.

I would say Knuckles being clever, tough, but still gullible and Eggman being sometimes serious, evil, but goofy.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Ishtar

[Neon]

Ya know in Colors its really just an exagerration of the storybook series, just saiyan.

That's why i don't like it. It's over-exaggerated to the point where he becomes a self-admiring jerk who never shuts up. The bad jokes didn't help either. Storybook Sonic just trounces everything and captures Sonic's personality perfectly.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Neon

[Tatsumaki]

I would say Knuckles being clever, tough, but still gullible and Eggman being sometimes serious, evil, but goofy.

To be fair, this is how Eggman has been acting like since Unleashed. XD

The existence of Shadow doesn't make Shadow the Hedgehog any better or worse.

Therefore, if there's something I'd like to change about Sonic games is simply, delete Shadow the Hedgehog forever, and have a game that isn't that... thing of a game. xD

And with that, I mean a Shadow game that actually has a good plot, and isn't filled with dark grittiness that just makes me want to hurl. The story can be a little dark. Not dramatic, epic dramaaaaaaaa, but a little darker, more so than Unleashed. But by a pinch. I'd like it if the story was conveyed somewhere along Shadow's characterization in Free Riders. That was awesome characterization. Some solid gameplay would have been nice, too. Hell, something along the lines of what Colors was, with gimmicks that involve his special powers that involve using the energy of the Chaos Emeralds; it'd be designed in a way that doesn't interrupt the gameplay, and the powers aren't really all that accessible and gamebreaking. And if you had to include multiplayer, it just has to be better than ShtH. Seriously, that was baaaaaaaaad.

Shadow is a character that was created for the sake of dark grittiness, so it's pretty hard to make a game that's the opposite of that...

[Neon]

I can't believe i forgot to add this. Voice actors.

If i had the choice. I would've kept Jason and most of the cast in. I'm not keen on Roger's voice, it just doesn't sound...right. I find it really annoying that as soon as Jason was able to perfect Sonic with Unleashed and Black Knight, he and the rest of the cast were replaced. I honestly dislike a lot new cast at the moment.

Sonic - Too deep. Doesn't have the Sonic charm.

Eggy - Perfect Eggman.

Tails - Perfect. Tails sounds like a male this time.

Knuckles - Sounds like Dan. Good.

Amy - Sounds like a drag queen. Seriously. It's awful.

Cream - Annoying. No change here.

Shadow - Sounds like a snake. Slurs his words way too much.

Rouge - Actually sounds much better.

Omega - Sounds like his old VA.

Blaze - Fine

Silver - Fine

Vector - Sounds too groggily.

Omochao - Is omochao a female now?

I i'll probably get used to the new VA's soon. I hope.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Neon

[Kuzu]

That's why i don't like it. It's over-exaggerated to the point where he becomes a self-admiring jerk who never shuts up. The bad jokes didn't help either. Storybook Sonic just trounces everything and captures Sonic's personality perfectly.

While I do agree the storybook series did it better.

I do appreciate that they tried to return Sonic to his days as the mascot with attitude, yeah sure he never shuts up, but that was his charm in the 90's. And its not like there were a lot of people for him to talk to in Colors; Tails and Eggman are barely in any cutscenes, and I know you didn't want to go through the game with silent Sonic?

I know people have a major problem with Sonic in Colors, but really people don't look at the big picture, because he does have positive traits, and isn't some self-important jerk, do self important people give praise to someone else when they do a good job? Do they willingly sacrifice themselves for the sake of another and almost die in the process? His entire relationship with Tails in this game shows just how much Sonic hasn't really changed as much as people are making.

Hell even if he is self important can you really blame him, there wasn't much at stake in Colors at least compared to normal circumstances. It was just another beat Eggman, go home job. There was no giant monsters, the world wasn't really threatened as much as it normally was.

I can't believe i forgot to add this. Voice actors.

If i had the choice. I would've kept Jason and most of the cast in. I'm not keen on Roger's voice, it just doesn't sound...right. I find it really annoying that as soon as Jason was able to perfect Sonic with Unleashed and Black Knight, he and the rest of the cast were replaced. I honestly dislike a lot new cast at the moment.

Sonic - Too deep. Doesn't have the Sonic charm.

Eggy - Perfect Eggman.

Tails - Perfect. Tails sounds like a male this time.

Knuckles - Sounds like Dan. Good.

Amy - Sounds like a drag queen. Seriously. It's awful.

Cream - Annoying. No change here.

Shadow - Sounds like a snake. Slurs his words way too much.

Rouge - Actually sounds much better.

Omega - Sounds like his old VA.

Blaze - Fine

Silver - Fine

Vector - Sounds too groggily.

Omochao - Is omochao a female now?

I i'll probably get used to the new VA's soon. I hope.

I remember everyone saying the same thing about 4Kids when they first came onto the scene, and 5 years later people are drawing up petitions for THEM to come back...trust me you'll get used to it.