The mysteries of the Master Emerald: why can't Knuckles be in the games?

[theadvisor1234]

I was having a discussion with Shadic over the reasoning behind Knuckles' absense in the games. Now, of course you know that the official explanation is that Knuckles must guard the M.E. so that it doesn't fall in the wrong hands. Never mind that no one has gone after it for 10 years. Anyway, he argued that Knuckles could just shatter the M.E. as an excuse to go on an adventure. I was about to argue the point that such a move was dangerous when a thought struck me: is it dangerous? Could Knuckles presumably do that? I discussed the following points with Shadic, and we both agreed that Sonic Team was too vague on the subject to give either side of the argument any merit. We ended our argument soon after.

Basically, I've come to the conclusion that we need to know a lot more about the M.E. Here are three questions that should be answered:

1. What is the extent of the power of the Master Emerald?

2. What is the relationship between the Chaos Emeralds and the Master Emerald? In SA2, we saw Knuckles neutralize the effect of the Chaos Emeralds using the M.E., but that only opens up another question:

3. What is so special about being a guardian? Do they have special powers to manipulate the M.E., or are they just someone that guards the gem with their life? Trust me, if the latter was true, that would alone justify Knuckles choosing to stay on Angel Island.

So what do you think? Do you think that some questions need to be answered? Do you want to really know WHY Knuckles can't participate in Sonic's adventures?

Edited August 5, 2011 by theadvisor1234

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Knuckles can't participate because SONIC ONLY, ITEMS OFF, FINAL DESTINATION.

As for an in-game explanation, I'm just sorta wondering why he doesn't just carry it around with him. He's done so before.

[Kuzu]

Its true, simply saying "he has to guard it" is too vague of a reason, its been over 10 years and the only thing we've learned about the thing is that:

It hold Chaos, which is completely irrelevant nowadays considering the Chaos arc is over, unless its brought up again, I doubt this will be even acknowledged

It can depower the Chaos emeralds, something you'd think would be more important and built on, I mean Sonic could've went to Knuckles to see if he can use the M.E. to restore the Chaos Emeralds.

Knuckles can't participate because SONIC ONLY, ITEMS OFF, FINAL DESTINATION.

As for an in-game explanation, I'm just sorta wondering why he doesn't just carry it around with him. He's done so before.

But they would have to explain how's able to shrink it, does he have some special abilities as its guardian?

[theadvisor1234]

Knuckles can't participate because SONIC ONLY, ITEMS OFF, FINAL DESTINATION.

As for an in-game explanation, I'm just sorta wondering why he doesn't just carry it around with him. He's done so before.

I can understand that that would make it quite easy to steal. It doesn't matter how strong you are if an army of robots wants you to hand it over.

[Sega DogTagz]

Never mind that no one has gone after it for 10 years.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[theadvisor1234]

*nitpick*

You can cut those years in half. Eggman Nega went after it in the Rivals series.

The Master Emeralds place in this series is pretty vague though. Its pretty much just a stop gap put in place as a final resort to stop the chaos emeralds if the heroes should need it. There are a few other lures associated with the gem (someone already mentioned chaos), but none of them are particularly important.

The question I want to ask is where in the world is its Sol equivalent.

[Koopalmier]

In Shadow The Hedgehog, one of his lost lines (or something like that) is him saying "I wonder if it's safe to leave the Master Emerald alone ?" or something like that.

I'd assume that after SA2 he decided it wasn't too bad to leave the Emerald alone so that he could adventure and hang out with Sonic and Tails, because it's not like lots of people want to steal it (only Eggman and Rouge have tried to do so) and even if it's stolen, he can just find it back.

Or maybe that the GUN guards the Master Emerald when Knuckles has to go.

Also, I think that, as the Emerald's guardian, Knuckles can more easily use its power, and can store it in himself too (like with Rings). He can also sense the Emerald's power, so maybe he's somewhat part of the Emerald. And he can manipulate the Emerald's shape to form its shards back or to shrink it.

He's born as its guardian, and it's the sole reason he lives. But recently he seems to have no problems to quit his duty to help Sonic find the Chaos Emeralds, or even if he receives an invitation.

As for the Master Emerald's powers...

It can control the Chaos Emeralds, and thus either negate them or make them even stronger. So that they aren't used badly.

It is very related to its shrine too, so if it disappears from it at a point, it'll disappear from it in every point of the timeline.

The reasons someone would want to steal it would be to power-up stuff (after all, the Emerald HAS power, just not as much as the Chaos Emeralds; It may even drain its powers from the Emeralds), to control the Chaos Emeralds once having them all (something someone could do by fusing with them, but I think only strong people who have control over Chaos energy can do that), or just to piss off a certain Knucklehead. :v

I think that the Sol version of the Master Emerald is Blaze. She doesn't control the Emeralds, but she can do so as Burning Blaze, and her role is to protect the Emeralds just like the Master Emerald's role is to avoid the Emeralds aren't used well.

The Master Emerald's French name is "Mother Emerald". I think it fits its role better.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Koopalmier

[Blacklightning]

"The servers are the seven Chaos.

Chaos is power, enriched by the heart.

The controller is the one that unifies the Chaos."

- Tikal, Sonic Adventure 1

Food for thought. It's obviously intentionally vauge and all that, but at the very least you can determine that the ME is a unifying force between the other seven emeralds, something of a controller if you will (proven by the way Knux uses it in SA2). There's probably more, but I don't feel like being especially analytical today.

[Kuzu]

Food for thought. It's obviously intentionally vauge and all that, but at the very least you can determine that the ME is a unifying force between the other seven emeralds, something of a controller if you will (proven by the way Knux uses it in SA2). There's probably more, but I don't feel like being especially analytical today.

[Glenn]

Personally, I always thought Knuckles was just a lifetime guardian. He doesn't have any particular special powers over the Master Emerald, or even the Chaos Emeralds (beyond a super form, which everybody has nowadays) and is pretty much dictated by his people's heritage. He clearly takes such things very seriously... dedication to uphold the principles and history of the echidna tribes, and to protect the Master Emerald. That works for him, fits his surly-but-sympathetic nature. Granted, it also makes his involvement in storylines pretty tricky (now that we've had about ten videogames involving "Oh noes, somebody done gone and stolen the big green thingy!" over the years) but as long as there's a brief line of dialogue explaining how/why Knuckles has left the Angel Island, or some kind of measure he's put in place to protect the Master Emerald in his absence, then I don't really mind. Heck, even that isn't essential to me, personally.

As for the wider discussion about the Master Emerald, I'd rather not know, to be honest. I like the idea of the Master Emerald's power and influence being a bit of a mystery. Yes, that means it could become a dangerously weak excuse to resolve a storyline (by revealing some as-yet-unwritten magical ability of the Master Emerald that resets everything and wins the hopeless day hurrah because we're Sonic Heroes awesome) but it also leaves room for future development.

Knuckles should be respecful of that mystery. I don't think he fully knows what the Master Emerald is capable of. He respect it, and respects his heritage and duty, and that doesn't mean he automatically has all the answers (especially since there are no fellow echidnas wandering around to teach him). It also means he would never, ever be stupid enough to shatter the Master Emerald as a cheap excuse to "get involved". It would go against every fibre of his duty and obligation as a guardian... to break and damage and deliberately endanger that which he guards.

But let's be realistic for a second. Knuckles is one echidna. The object which he guards is pretty large, and I'd imagine somewhat of a hefty weight, not to mention radiating extreme power. How can he be expected to effectively protect it, standing alone, against the might of the various armies and beings that've acted as villains over the years? Sooner or later, one will get through, so it isn't a cue to roll your eyes and say "Oh, not again!" when Knuckles shows up in future, looking all worried and mumbling something about the Master Emerald being stolen/shattered. Give the poor loner a break (and as such, perhaps be sympathetic when he's taking a break and helping Sonic and Tails with some of their own problems).

[KHCast]

In Shadow The Hedgehog, one of his lost lines (or something like that) is him saying "I wonder if it's safe to leave the Master Emerald alone ?" or something like that.

I'd assume that after SA2 he decided it wasn't too bad to leave the Emerald alone so that he could adventure and hang out with Sonic and Tails, because it's not like lots of people want to steal it (only Eggman and Rouge have tried to do so) and even if it's stolen, he can just find it back.

Or maybe that the GUN guards the Master Emerald when Knuckles has to go.

Also, I think that, as the Emerald's guardian, Knuckles can more easily use its power, and can store it in himself too (like with Rings). He can also sense the Emerald's power, so maybe he's somewhat part of the Emerald. And he can manipulate the Emerald's shape to form its shards back or to shrink it.

He's born as its guardian, and it's the sole reason he lives. But recently he seems to have no problems to quit his duty to help Sonic find the Chaos Emeralds, or even if he receives an invitation.

As for the Master Emerald's powers...

It can control the Chaos Emeralds, and thus either negate them or make them even stronger. So that they aren't used badly.

It is very related to its shrine too, so if it disappears from it at a point, it'll disappear from it in every point of the timeline.

The reasons someone would want to steal it would be to power-up stuff (after all, the Emerald HAS power, just not as much as the Chaos Emeralds; It may even drain its powers from the Emeralds), to control the Chaos Emeralds once having them all (something someone could do by fusing with them, but I think only strong people who have control over Chaos energy can do that), or just to piss off a certain Knucklehead. :v

I think that the Sol version of the Master Emerald is Blaze. She doesn't control the Emeralds, but she can do so as Burning Blaze, and her role is to protect the Emeralds just like the Master Emerald's role is to avoid the Emeralds aren't used well.

The Master Emerald's French name is "Mother Emerald". I think it fits its role better.

She also holds iblis within her. the fire counterpart of chaos.

[Koopalmier]

She also holds iblis within her. the fire counterpart of chaos.

... Clever, I didn't think of Iblis = Fire Chaos.

Actually it really makes sense. Bravo.

[EXshad]

The Master Emerald needs guarding simply because of the power it holds. It keeps Angel Island floating in the sky, and if it's taken from its place, the island could shake violently or even fall into the ocean. Its power keeps Knuckles' home in its rightful place, and that alone means it's worth defending. Yes, in Sonic Adventure 2, he used it off of the island, and it single-handedly has proven to be one of the only things capable of commanding the Chaos Emeralds, thus making it a valuable asset, but it belongs on Angel Island; Knuckles only had it because the Ark began crashing to Earth before Knuckles had a chance to take it home. Now, why the Master Emerald keeps Angel Island floating.. there's loads of theories, but use your imagination

As for the power of the Master Emerald? Well, my theory is that Chaos energy is an energy that flows through nature, like the Force from Star Wars, if you will, and some beings happen to have an easier time of tapping into this power. Sonic and Shadow, for example, have been shown to be able to use Chaos Control without the use of an Emerald, while many other characters haven't even been hinted at having that type of power. However, my belief is that the Chaos Emeralds are able to tap into this flow of power and imbue it upon their users, due to their mythical energies and properties. For example, in Shadow the Hedgehog, Black Doom could use Chaos Control as he pleased, but he could only warp the entire Black Comet with the help of the 7 Chaos Emeralds.

Now, the Master Emerald seems to work as a regulator of the power of the Chaos Emeralds. By this, I mean that the one who controls the Master Emerald can control how the energy of the Chaos Emeralds is used and actually override them, as shown in Sonic Adventure 2. Essentially, you control the Master Emerald, you control the power of the 7 "servers". That's my theory, anyway, but my guess is that Knuckles had limited understanding of this until shown the events of the Tikal's past in Sonic Adventure, thus explaining how he knew so much more about the Master Emerald by the end of Adventure 2 than he did at the beginning of Sonic Adventure 1.

This is all just my guess anyway, but that's how I make sense of all this. It doesn't seem like anything TOO crazy, so long as you put the pieces together. And yeah, I feel like a total fucking nerd

[Diogenes]

... Clever, I didn't think of Iblis = Fire Chaos.

Actually it really makes sense. Bravo.

[Smock]

Doesn't the entire island fall down if the Master Emerald is removed?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Knuckles would want to avoid that.

EDIT: I think that's just Archie logic. Still not sure, though.

Edited August 6, 2011 by SockDrawer

[Koopalmier]

Except for the fact that it was in Sonic's world instead of Blaze's, and it's half of a god rather than a hyperevolved chao.

The two aren't really related at all.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Koopalmier

[theadvisor1234]

Doesn't the entire island fall down if the Master Emerald is removed?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Knuckles would want to avoid that.

EDIT: I think that's just Archie logic. Still not sure, though.

[Smock]

Well, when the world's in danger, what's it gonna be: an island or the world? That's what I mean. It's all up to the reason that the M.E. shouldn't fall into the wrong hands.

Edited August 6, 2011 by SockDrawer

[theadvisor1234]

I don't see your point. That's just another reason why he has to protect it.

[the blu blur]

Because Unlike Sonic, he don't chuckle...he rather flex his muscles in finding the master emeralds. Yeah, you know how it is...*slug'd*

Knuckles, I actually wouldn't mind in the story, so as long as he has a good reason for being there. Another thing, as I mentioned above, is the responsibility to the emerald. He's forever tied to babysitting it. (is he?) which kinda makes traveling a little tricky.

But who am I kidding, It didn't stop him from competing in the grand prix last year ridin' in the wind, and all (no pun intended).

[theadvisor1234]

Blast that Sonic Team and all their plot holes and inconsistancies.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why would Knuckles sacrifice the safety of the world and the millions of the people that come with it for an island that no one lives on?

Because Sonic himself is more than capable of saving the world without Knuckles help. And that doesn't even begin to go along with the several other characters who could just as easily help save the world while Knuckles is guarding the ME from further danger.

Not to mention the fact that if he's away and the ME does get stolen, the world would be at an even greater risk. Anyone who has the ME can effectively drain or magnify the Chaos Emeralds or power a doomsday machine with it by itself, and that alone makes it a very potent item.

Doesn't seem heroic, does it? If he could carry the M.E. with him, or shatter it, he could possibly help out, but according to Sonic Team, he has to stay on Angel Island, and has for 10 years in the main series. Why? What's so special about Angel Island?

Angel Island is special because not only is it his ancestral home, but it serves as a barrier to prevent it from being stolen in the first place. Every precaution should take place to ensure that the ME isn't in danger, and if he takes it with him, shatters it, or leaves it by itself then it becomes that much easier for someone to steal it or piece it together if they are capable of detecting it in some way. If Knuckles is on the island, it becomes that much harder for someone to steal it, because he knows the place like the back of his hand and can hinder people from getting to the prize.

Put it this way: if the heroes had a Chaos Emerald, shouldn't they make sure they take great measures to keep the villains from getting their hands on it? The same would apply for the ME.

Edited August 6, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Smock]

Why would Knuckles sacrifice the safety of the world and the millions of the people that come with it for an island that no one lives on? Doesn't seem heroic, does it? If he could carry the M.E. with him, or shatter it, he could possibly help out, but according to Sonic Team, he has to stay on Angel Island, and has for 10 years in the main series. Why? What's so special about Angel Island?

He can carry it?

He can shatter it?

Da fu

Anyways, it's like you said, so he can keep the M.E. from falling into the wrong hands.

Edited August 6, 2011 by SockDrawer

[KHCast]

Wait so why was knuckles planned to be in unleashed as a playable character then If he had to be guarding the master emerald?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Wait so why was knuckles planned to be in unleashed as a playable character then If he had to be guarding the master emerald?

He was never meant to be a playable character in Unleashed, they just said that they planned to have in in the story. Who really knows how they would've did the plot with Knuckles. Shadow was also planned to be in too, so it's an wonder where GUN would've fit regarding him.