Story in Sonic Games-How we want it

[HUNTER297]

I read very interesting article today (here is link but its very long read http://gamebabble.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/sonic-and-the-worst-fandom-ever/ ) and some of it inspired me to make this thread.

Author states that paradoxaly kids fans want story to be more serious when Older fans want it to be more childish or to dont have story in Sonic games. (setting of game isnt a story for me and I think lots of people think like that too. Because when you think about it Sonic 1 or 2 didnt have story. It was just seted somewhere. Unlike S3&K zone transitions in that one made it a lot more interesting) but back on topic.

The point pf this thread ist to figure out wchich way is best for Sonic series. (without flamewars please)

Lets say at beggining when and why you became fan of Sonic.

When I was a child by luck I got my Genesis (it was somewhere near 1996) Genesis was really old but it was my first gaming platform. I played whole classic trilogy and enjoyed it but I became true fan later. In 1999 I got my Drwamcast along with Sonic Adventure. I loved ths game to death. Before it I played both Mario AND Sonic games both after Adventure I realized how Mario was bland and unineresting. What caught me was (besides awsome gameplay) the story. I loved how SA1 handled story involving 6 playable characters. Because of story I became fan of the series. My last game on Dreamcast was SA2. And it was a great goodbye to the console awsome gameplay but whats more important THE STORY.

Plot of SA2 was great to me. It made Sonic not only a platformer but game with Story at the complex level pf some RPGs.

Now my thoughts of current situation and future. What I loved and still love about series is great sense of story. Heroes slighty disapointed me but ShTH was pretty good. The infamous 06 story was good too (excluding Elise and Sonic story and that scene). Unleashed didnt disapoint me either but Colors was biggest disapointment since Heroes.

I hate how new writers handle story. I may change my mind with Gen when I see how they handle other characters but for now I hate them. But its not hate topic.

Now my thoughts on future. In my opinion key to good stoylinening in Sonic games is series balance. For example SA1 story blanced lighthearted moments with serious motives. SA2 was more serious but that dont make its story bad. In my opinion we should have both lighthearted stories and serious tories in Sonic games (But not as lighthearted as Colors.)

For example lets say that after Generations main series would start new ARC (it was said that Sonic, Shadow and Silver similarities including names and ability to use Chaos Control and go Super was intentional and will be explained in future games-thats my bet for next ARC) and will last for 2 or 3 games. For obvious reasons story cant be as lighthearted as in Colors but SA1 or SA2 serious level should do just great. Then spinn-offs series should be more lighthearted. But to balance it lets make Colors spinn-offs series for WiiiU and some Rush related series for 3DS while Vita would get more serious title. After end of the ARC storylinening should become more lighthearted (for main series) and then after lets say 3 main titles begin other serious ARC.

This way we would balance the seriousness level in series. I dont hope that whole fanbase will be happy because its impossible but let one side be happy for some time then the other. And give both sides their "save series" where they can play their kind of story games (lighthearted fans- Colors WiiU series, middle fans- 3DS Rush series (or something like that) and serious fans- PSVita game series [Does anybody doubt Sonic will show up there]).

But thats just mine opinion. As I said earlier no flamewars please.

Let the discussion begin!

[theadvisor1234]

I think that the story can be a combination of the two. The personalities of most of the characters should keep a lighthearted side to the story. However, Dr. Eggman's plan should add a dark undertone in the story, especially if Sonic and Co. have no idea what he's up to. The characters would joke around and have fun, but would know when to get serious (Sonic would be the last to do so, of course).

As for humor, we can have several types. I think that Dr. Eggman could add a bit of sophisticated, dark humor, as it would mirror his personality nicely. Think of his announcements in Colors. He's the bad guy, and he enjoys it.

Also, I think that there should be some development of the characters. Add some conflict, have certain characters face it, and as they overcome the challenge, they'll be stronger for it. I could go on and on about how the characterizations could be leveled out in order to keep certain personality traits from being overbearing.

Edited August 8, 2011 by theadvisor1234

[Kuzu]

Oh I know where this is headed.

Anyway stories in Sonic games are never really important, especially since people tend to overlook it anyway. The series isn't as plot heavy as other franchises and should be treated as such; This however does not mean I don't want a decent story in a Sonic game. For me I just want a story that ties all the levels and events in the game together without leaving out leaving out important details for the sake of a gag or because no one felt like trying.

A story should be coherent, make sense, and at least be somewhat engaging, show us why should we care about the conflict in this game.

Colors` problem is that is goes way off the tangent for a story to the point of being non-existent, with the cutscenes only being used for the sake of gag. Now this would be all well and good, if it didn't actually develop some plot threads, such as Tails` brainwashing, Yacker's disappearance, and the overall plight of the Wisp. If the game didn't want to be taken seriously the plot should've just been "Get the Chaos Emeralds before Eggman".

The problem with games like ShTH, and 06, and to an extent Sa2. They 're trying to take themselves too seriously, which is almost never good, remember the series is still geared towards everyone and everyone should be able to like it. Making a story centered around apocalypses, and demon monsters was good for maybe a game or two, but soon delved into nonsense, and the series lost the lighthearted feel it started with, basically its like a G-rated movie trying to be an PG-13 one.

I think that the story can be a combination of the two. The personalities of most of the characters should keep a lighthearted side to the story. However, Dr. Eggman's plan should add a dark undertone in the story, especially if Sonic and Co. have no idea what he's up to. The characters would joke around and have fun, but would know when to get serious (Sonic would be the last to do so, of course).

As for humor, we can have several types. I think that Dr. Eggman could add a bit of sophisticated, dark humor, as it would mirror his personality nicely. Think of his announcements in Colors. He's the bad guy, and he enjoys it.

Also, I think that there should be some development of the characters. Add some conflict, have certain characters face it, and as they overcome the challenge, they'll be stronger for it. I could go on and on about how the characterizations could be leveled out in order to keep certain personality traits from being overbearing.

That's just it though, like I said, the series isn't story focused, so people aren't really going to care about stuff like character development, I opt for occasionally showing sides of the characters never seen before showing a hidden depth to them, such as Sonic's depression in Unleashed, its small, yet significant because we never see Sonic act like that before. Character Development can be done, but only if its done in a less obnoxious way, kinda like in Sa1. Too much of it, and then get ShTH.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Shadic93

[Nepenthe]

As I always say, one of the best things you can do for a Sonic game narrative is to flesh out a basic plot and to tell it well throughout the entire game, to continually give narrative purpose to all of the things I'm doing. The Adventure and Storybook games do this well enough to where I can appreciate them alongside flawed favorites like Unleashed's story.

I'll also continue to defend serious undertones that lead to high-stakes third acts. The former doesn't have to be anything more than "we don't have much time to do x" or "there's something weird going on and I feel compelled to follow it for awhile" a la SA1, nor does it have to conflict with or overwhelm lighthearted or funnier instances. But I do want some proper build-up to an explosive third act, some pervading sense of mystery that will be tied up nicely when Eggman and/or the Big Bad shows his face in the finale. A steadily heightening sense of danger and stakes just makes for more satisfying storytelling; even friggin' Disney has learned this.

[theadvisor1234]

Oh I know where this is headed.

Anyway stories in Sonic games are never really important, especially since people tend to overlook it anyway. The series isn't as plot heavy as other franchises and should be treated as such; This however does not mean I don't want a decent story in a Sonic game. For me I just want a story that ties all the levels and events in the game together without leaving out leaving out important details for the sake of a gag or because no one felt like trying.

A story should be coherent, make sense, and at least be somewhat engaging, show us why should we care about the conflict in this game.

Colors` problem is that is goes way off the tangent for a story to the point of being non-existent, with the cutscenes only being used for the sake of gag. Now this would be all well and good, if it didn't actually develop some plot threads, such as Tails` brainwashing, Yacker's disappearance, and the overall plight of the Wisp. If the game didn't want to be taken seriously the plot should've just been "Get the Chaos Emeralds before Eggman".

The problem with games like ShTH, and 06, and to an extent Sa2. They 're trying to take themselves too seriously, which is almost never good, remember the series is still geared towards everyone and everyone should be able to like it. Making a story centered around apocalypses, and demon monsters was good for maybe a game or two, but soon delved into nonsense, and the series lost the lighthearted feel it started with, basically its like a G-rated movie trying to be an PG-13 one.

That's just it though, like I said, the series isn't story focused, so people aren't really going to care about stuff like character development, I opt for occasionally showing sides of the characters never seen before showing a hidden depth to them, such as Sonic's depression in Unleashed, its small, yet significant because we never see Sonic act like that before. Character Development can be done, but only if its done in a less obnoxious way, kinda like in Sa1. Too much of it, and then get ShTH.

[Kuzu]

As I always say, one of the best things you can do for a Sonic game narrative is to flesh out a basic plot and to tell it well throughout the entire game, to continually give narrative purpose to all of the things I'm doing. The Adventure and Storybook games do this well enough to where I can appreciate them alongside flawed favorites like Unleashed's story.

I'll also continue to defend serious undertones that lead to high-stakes third acts. The former doesn't have to be anything more than "we don't have much time to do x" or "there's something weird going on and I feel compelled to follow it for awhile" a la SA1, nor does it have to conflict with or overwhelm lighthearted or funnier instances. But I do want some proper build-up to an explosive third act, some pervading sense of mystery that will be tied up nicely when Eggman and/or the Big Bad shows his face in the finale. A steadily heightening sense of danger and stakes just makes for more satisfying storytelling; even friggin' Disney has learned this.

[Vertekins]

I think that characterization should be more important than story. But story is still an important aspect nonetheless.

Serious story? In regards to Sonic, the story shouldn't take itself too seriously. '06 did and that turned out to be little more than a Narmfest of convoluted plot, melodrama and stings that were more for cheap dramatic effect than anything else. SA2 pretty much proved you could do serious in Sonic without turning characters into flat parodies of themselves in order to give other characters more prominence or to cater purely to other characters *CoughEliseCough*. I'm all for serious-natured storylines in Sonic as long as it's done well.

Same goes for Light-Hearted plots, like that of Colours. Characters shouldn't have to be Flanderized or turned OoC to suit the tone of the story. Most of SatBK was light in tone story-wise until pretty much the end yet not once did you ever see characters acting against their established character or exhibiting quirks they've never even vaguely hinted to have had before just to suit the 'requirements' of it's mostly light-hearted plot.

So franly, I'm don't explicitly care about the tone of the story, I'm all for how characters act. Whether it be serious or not, if a character is in-character and not exaggerated for the sake of the story's tone then I'm perfectly happy with it.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Verte

[Kuzu]

The story and gameplay can mesh together. Let me be frank: you show me someone who won't care about the characters getting proper characterization and I'll show you five that do. This shouldn't be for just any gamer, this should be for the fans who actually care for the characters. Granted, it shouldn't get all angsty (is that even a word)?

Anyway, I'm cutting off the argument here before we take up the whole thread.

[Nitwit_Speed]

I always looked at depth and comedy as elements rather than sides of a spectrum, and it'd be nice to have both instead of having one over the other. Shadow and 06 where missing that comdey element whereas Unleashed and Colors where missing that depth element, arguably failing to get that element of comedy in there. By comedy, though, i don't necessarily mean that we're slapping our knees at a joke, and having depth means the earth is on fire during that joke. By comedy i mean it not being stiff and stale and relying too hard and epicness and the cool factor, moreso like comedy vs. tragedy than comedy as in a stand-up comedian. Sonic can take itself seriosuly, but it needs to take the fact that it's an anime world and you're a blue hedgehog that spins at the speed of light seriously, as in respecting that things still have to have rules and make sense with our insane hedgehog land.

[theadvisor1234]

But its not a plot orientated series, and never was; If this was something like Final Fantasy or Mass Effect I'd agree with you, but in terms of Sonic, no. The story like I said should just be used to tie all of the levels and events together neatly without leaving anything dangling, the plot can be engaging but it shouldn't be the selling point.

Of course not. But that doesn't mean the story can't improve and be in depth. It just adds an excuse for more gameplay.

NOW I'm cutting off the argument.

[Kuzu]

I always looked at depth and comedy as elements rather than sides of a spectrum, and it'd be nice to have both instead of having one over the other. Shadow and 06 where missing that comdey element whereas Unleashed and Colors where missing that depth element, arguably failing to get that element of comedy in there. By comedy, though, i don't necessarily mean that we're slapping our knees at a joke, and having depth means the earth is on fire during that joke. By comedy i mean it not being stiff and stale and relying too hard and epicness and the cool factor, moreso like comedy vs. tragedy than comedy as in a stand-up comedian. Sonic can take itself seriosuly, but it needs to take the fact that it's an anime world and you're a blue hedgehog that spins at the speed of light seriously, as in respecting that things still have to have rules and make sense with our insane hedgehog land.

Unleashed had depth, well depth for a Sonic game anyway. It shows how Sonic must deal with his Werehog form(I admit it could've been done better), and how Chip deals with the revelation of being Light Gaia expressing how much he's loved seeing the world and learning about it along the way. Its got a lot more depth than Colors to tell you the truth.

[HUNTER297]

I think that characterization should be more important than story. But story is still an important aspect nonetheless.

Serious story? In regards to Sonic, the story shouldn't take itself too seriously. '06 did and that turned out to be little more than a Narmfest of convoluted plot, melodrama and stings that were more for cheap dramatic effect than anything else. SA2 pretty much proved you could do serious in Sonic without turning characters into flat parodies of themselves in order to give other characters more prominence or to cater purely to other characters *CoughEliseCough*. I'm all for serious-natured storylines in Sonic as long as it's done well.

Same goes for Light-Hearted plots, like that of Colours. Characters shouldn't have to be Flanderized or turned OoC to suit the tone of the story. Most of SatBK was light in tone story-wise until pretty much the end yet not once did you ever see characters acting against their established character or exhibiting quirks they've never even vaguely hinted to have had before just to suit the 'requirements' of it's mostly light-hearted plot.

So franly, I'm don't explicitly care about the tone of the story, I'm all for how characters act. Whether it be serious or not, if a character is in-character and not exaggerated for the sake of the story's tone then I'm perfectly happy with it.

I think in this thread we can talk about both characterization and story. I think its more important too but story is also important aspect of Sonic games. SA2 is great example of great executed serious Sonic story.

[Nepenthe]

Oh yeah, the Climax, its needs to be tension filled. This was one my main complaints about Colors` story the climax just felt..meh, there's was no real sense of danger present or anything, it just felt rushed. I mean even ShTH and 06 had decent climaxes.

On the contrary, I think Colors climax on its own was great. Exploding space elevators, mechas that combined the Wisps' powers, and an inescapable black holes? Cool beans, especially the inability to escape the black hole. The problem was that the rest of the story was too light and comedic to really prop it up.

[Kuzu]

On the contrary, I think Colors climax on its own was great. Exploding space elevators, mechas that combined the Wisps' powers, and an inescapable black holes? Cool beans, especially the inability to escape the black hole. The problem was that the rest of the story was too light and comedic to really prop it up.

True. I guess Colors` climax felt meh, because as you said there was no real build up.

I think in this thread we can talk about both characterization and story. I think its more important too but story is also important aspect of Sonic games. SA2 is great example of great executed serious Sonic story.

In my honest opinion Sa2 only got serious towards the end, at least on the Heroes side things,and even then you have Eggman throwing a tantrum, and scratching his ass.

[HUNTER297]

True. I guess Colors` climax felt meh, because as you said there was no real build up.

In my honest opinion Sa2 only got serious towards the end, at least on the Heroes side things,and even then you have Eggman throwing a tantrum, and scratching his ass.

Thats why I said great "Sonic serious story" because it greatly balanced humor and serious motives. We all know that there can be more serious stories but in terms of Sonic it wont do well (ShTH and 06 tho I liked ShTH story but 06 was yeah but some things about it were good)

Oh and noone said story is selling point of Sonic game but its nearly as important as gameplay. Story is our motive to run trough zones. Better it is more motivation we get. Example what would be Final Rush in SA2 without feeling that you have 10 minutes to save the world, same for VS. Shadow battle.

Edited August 8, 2011 by HUNTER297

[Sonictrainer]

Because when you think about it Sonic 1 or 2 didnt have story. It was just seted somewhere.

The story of the first game introduces Sonic to us. As we play, we know from destroying the Robots that someone put animals inside of them. We are then introduced to Dr. Robotnik. From there on, we help Sonic as he goes around destroying all the Prison Capsules before dealing a final blow to Robotnik at his base. In the end, Sonic is able to save all the animals.

In Sonic 2, Robotnik uses what he learns from his first encounter with Sonic to create new traps and takes his original plan to higher heights by creating the Death Egg. Now aided by Tails, Sonic must now go to the new bases Robotnik has set up to feed the captured animals and try to shut down the Death Egg.

The fall of the Death Egg leads to the new story in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

There is definitely a story to be told within Sonic 1 and Sonic 2.

Edited August 8, 2011 by STrainer

[#EndyGate]

I personally think that the story should stick with a generally light hearted tale with several dark tones popping here and there

[ilcane87]

I read very interesting article today (here is link but its very long read http://gamebabble.wo...st-fandom-ever/ and some of it inspired me to make this thread.

Edited August 8, 2011 by ilcane87

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Same goes for Light-Hearted plots, like that of Colours. Characters shouldn't have to be Flanderized or turned OoC to suit the tone of the story. Most of SatBK was light in tone story-wise until pretty much the end yet not once did you ever see characters acting against their established character or exhibiting quirks they've never even vaguely hinted to have had before just to suit the 'requirements' of it's mostly light-hearted plot.

Frankly, Tails had next to no characterization to begin with, so him being OoC is as close as he's gotten to actually having a personality. Personally, I like this development.

As for the rest, you could argue that only Sonic and Eggman really had a third-dimension to begin with, and it's been deteriorating for some time now. If there's any flanderization going on, it's happened before Unleashed or Colors got much of a chance to do anything (not to say they had no part in it). 06 and ShTH, anyone?

[Koopalmier]

Sonic games shouldn't have a lot of story, but still have some. It should be somewhere between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Colors. Maybe a bit more than Heroes.

Big stories should be for Sonic Adventure titles (as in, "grand" games with multiple gameplays and stuff). It shouldn't come too often, or else it kills the particularity of it.

Think of Mario RPGs. They have "grand" stories but there's one every three years.

[John F. Kennedy]

I like my stories like lemonade.

Sweet and simple.

Colors handled this nicely.

Edited August 8, 2011 by MetalSilver

[Johnny Boy]

I'd like for stories to be light hearted and goofy in the beginning and get darker towards the end.

[sonfan1984]

I like a story that isn't dark and gritty or being overly goofy. I like a good balance story that is lighthearted (in tone but not in story) but the game can get serious when it's necessary. Something like Unleashed for example. I like what they're doing with Generations, though.

[Kuzu]

Frankly, Tails had next to no characterization to begin with, so him being OoC is as close as he's gotten to actually having a personality. Personally, I like this development.

As for the rest, you could argue that only Sonic and Eggman really had a third-dimension to begin with, and it's been deteriorating for some time now. If there's any flanderization going on, it's happened before Unleashed or Colors got much of a chance to do anything (not to say they had no part in it). 06 and ShTH, anyone?

Well...the storybook games handled this nicely, the cutscenes in those games actually had connections instead of just being filler for really bad jokes.

[sonfan1984]

Well...the storybook games handled this nicely, the cutscenes in those games actually had connections instead of just being filler for really bad jokes.

The storybooks games still didn't do much or hardly anything for Tails characterization, though.