Art Versus Entertainment

[Nepenthe]

So I inadvertently caused a bit of a divergence in the pet peeve topic, but a member had the most awesome idea: Take it outside. So I did and we're left with this, which is an interesting subject in its own right anyway so multiple opinions and teeth-gnashing are always welcome. This topic is primarily about film, but thoughts about how the subject applies to other forms of mass entertainment are appropriate as well.

So the questions: How do the concepts of "art" and "entertainment" compare and compete for you when deciding on a film to watch? Do you watch things primarily because they're high in conceptual or technical value/craftsmanship, do you watch things primarily because you believe they'll be fun and entertain you successfully for two hours, or do you mix it up and watch whatever looks the most interesting that month regardless of whether it attempts to be deeper than average or not?

As an animator, I'm pushing myself to be more discerning about what I spend my money on not only to potentially further my education and horizons in small ways, but to also support the talent and studios who I believe deserve it and I want to see thrive. I rarely go into films blind anymore, indulging in previews, reviews, makings-of and featurettes, comparative word of mouth, alternate media, and company and personal credentials long before the film is even released. I go by a particular reviewer's mantra: "There's good popcorn films and then there's bad popcorn films." I'm aiming to avoid the bad ones as best I can, even to the clear disdain of my friends and family who wanted to take me to movies I've deemed not worth my time.

This doesn't mean I'm against entertainment, and I find such a implication insulting. All of the films I've chosen to see this year of my own accord are entertaining anyways, (me and my mom are still talking about Apes after two weeks), and there's no logical reason why there exists such a dichotomy between the two concepts anyway. If nothing else, it's the result of film theorem, risk, and technological advancement that has always made films better and better over the years, if for nothing else than the ultimate entertainment value you're getting out of them alone. This video talks about games in this manner, but the concept is the same. Supporting what you believe to be the best films and constructively critiquing them as actual pieces of art isn't somehow going to make them worse.

[Stacy]

So I inadvertently caused a bit of a divergence in the pet peeve topic, but a member had the most awesome idea: Take it outside. So I did and we're left with this, which is an interesting subject in its own right anyway so multiple opinions and teeth-gnashing are always welcome. This topic is primarily about film, but thoughts about how the subject applies to other forms of mass entertainment are appropriate as well.

So the questions: How do the concepts of "art" and "entertainment" compare and compete for you when deciding on a film to watch? Do you watch things primarily because they're high in conceptual or technical value/craftsmanship, do you watch things primarily because you believe they'll be fun and entertain you successfully for two hours, or do you mix it up and watch whatever looks the most interesting that month regardless of whether it attempts to be deeper than average or not?

As an animator, I'm pushing myself to be more discerning about what I spend my money on not only to potentially further my education and horizons in small ways, but to also support the talent and studios who I believe deserve it and I want to see thrive. I rarely go into films blind anymore, indulging in previews, reviews, makings-of and featurettes, comparative word of mouth, alternate media, and company and personal credentials long before the film is even released. I go by a particular reviewer's mantra: "There's good popcorn films and then there's bad popcorn films." I'm aiming to avoid the bad ones as best I can, even to the clear disdain of my friends and family who wanted to take me to movies I've deemed not worth my time.

This doesn't mean I'm against entertainment, and I find such a implication insulting. All of the films I've chosen to see this year of my own accord are entertaining anyways, (me and my mom are still talking about Apes after two weeks), and there's no logical reason why there exists such a dichotomy between the two concepts anyway. If nothing else, it's the result of film theorem, risk, and technological advancement that has always made films better and better over the years, if for nothing else than the ultimate entertainment value you're getting out of them alone. This video talks about games in this manner, but the concept is the same. Supporting what you believe to be the best films and constructively critiquing them as actual pieces of art isn't somehow going to make them worse.

I don't know most entertainment can be considered art but if your selling it also becomes a 'product' I know most creative people cringe at this idea and sometimes I do.

For example I make music, I craft and mold my track creatively of course it is something I want to be proud of and issomething that want to make but I don't usually want to keep song to myself so I play it to my family first and see what their reaction is if am feeling confident I will post it on Soundcloud or Youtube, if and I mean if it notices and is well recieved I might send to someone who does underground music compilations or sent to inderpendent record label who might put on their compilation or sign to their label, of course I might not go this far but then I have started seeing my music as product. Personally I am happy to give away for free and hope that the people who download might give feedback or find entertaining.

I still think it comes down opinion on what people think is good and bad when it comes games, movies, music etc.

When I see a movie I usually check out the trailer which then I usually make up mind if this the type I want to see or not. Sometimes their are films which I think are good but I would rather rent instead seeing on the big screen. I don't views or critics because I find most too negative on almost every film these days.

As for Planet Of The Apes I would rather rent it, I don't it does look good on the big screen but I already seen quite a few films recently and wasn't one on the top of list doesn't make it and bad its just of films that I would like to see but not right now.

[Smock]

'IMO: THE THREAD'

[Noir]

'IMO: THE THREAD'

Though I love discussing pretentiousness and art I'm pretty busy so I'm not going to type up something huge.

I just do want to point out that while opinion is, yes, ultimately what decides "good" or "bad" there are also good and bad opinions. "I like it" is a bad one, and doesn't justify a claim that a piece of art is good. So it is IMO: The Thread, but also kinda not really at the same time. Yeah.

[Smock]

Though I love discussing pretentiousness and art I'm pretty busy so I'm not going to type up something huge.

I just do want to point out that while opinion is, yes, ultimately what decides "good" or "bad" there are also good and bad opinions. "I like it" is a bad one, and doesn't justify a claim that a piece of art is good. So it is IMO: The Thread, but also kinda not really at the same time. Yeah.

So what you're saying is, the topic is all about how people can rationalize and justify their own opinions? Well, in this case, that's all they are, opinions. Art is in the eyes of the beholder; there's really no set of rules that decides what is art and what isn't.

[Noir]

So what you're saying is, the topic is all about how people can rationalize and justify their own opinions? Well, in this case, that's all they are, opinions. Art is in the eyes of the beholder; there's really no set of rules that decides what is art and what isn't.

Well being able to justify an opinion is what distinguishes a good one from a bad one and if you can't justify that you think something is art well, your opinion is stupid and essentially wrong

Technically there's no right or wrong opinion and art is in the eyes of the beholder, but at the same time that's not quite true. Because there is definitely bad art, and you can prove when something is bad, no matter how good someone else thinks it is and the same is true in reverse.

[Smock]

but you see

this entire discussion

is a matter of opinion

[Remy]

but you see

this entire discussion

is a matter of opinion

every discussion ever is a matter of opinion and pointing that out serves no purpose then to derail the thread. Which IMO (ho ho ho) has a lot of potential for interesting discussion.

The thread isn't even about what is and isn't art- it's about the relative merits of "art" films vs. popcorn films (Transformers, apes, Commando, etc.)

but you see

when i post like this

im joking

-and I apologize, I did get off topic

I don't care if you were joking, it was irrelevant crap muddying up a great attempt at a topic.

[Nepenthe]

I'm not sure how the point of this topic could be made any clearer than with the series of questions I posed at the beginning. It's simple: Do you primarily go to the theater to just to shut your brain off and have a good time, another ulterior motive such as supporting a specific director or supporting a specific style of film, or are your motivations for going a mix of both?

[Smock]

but you see

when i post like this

im joking

-and I apologize, I did get off topic.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Mordecai

[Sami]

I still enjoy a good popcorn flick if it does what it sets out to do well. I watched 30 Minutes or Less the other day, and while it was far more vulgar than I would like, I enjoyed the film. I laughed a lot and genuinely had a good time watching it.

I also enjoyed watching A Beautiful Mind, and though it isn't a movie I'd want to invite a group of friends to watch together, I'd definitely say it's a step above movies that do fit that criteria.

[Remy]

I'm not sure how the point of this topic could be made any clearer than with the series of questions I posed at the beginning. It's simple: Do you primarily go to the theater to just to shut your brain off and have a good time, another ulterior motive such as supporting a specific director or supporting a specific style of film, or are your motivations for going a mix of both?

I used to only go for the "big" critical darling art type films. The epic EVERYONE MUST SEE THIS OR ELSE OMG SO AMAZING type films which probably fit into the art category for sure. But lately I've being going way more regularly with a group of friends that pretty go see anything, so I've been watching waaaaay more popcorn films lately hahaha.

Both have their merits really. Going with a group, sometimes it's way more entertaining to catch a dumb flick everyone can enjoy (captain america sticks out in my mind) then something heavier or complicated like Inception that certain people don't really get.

[Sami]

I used to only go for the "big" critical darling art type films. The epic EVERYONE MUST SEE THIS OR ELSE OMG SO AMAZING type films which probably fit into the art category for sure. But lately I've being going way more regularly with a group of friends that pretty go see anything, so I've been watching waaaaay more popcorn films lately hahaha.

Both have their merits really. Going with a group, sometimes it's way more entertaining to catch a dumb flick everyone can enjoy (captain america sticks out in my mind) then something heavier or complicated like Inception that certain people don't really get.

Inception is a fine example of a movie that manages to be both, in my opinion. It's got all the action and over the top effects to be a good popcorn flick, but there's definitely some interesting ideas to think about for those who care. Fight Club is also a really great example.

Lately though, while I do enjoy watching the "turn your brain off and watch" movies, I still have to say I prefer movies that leave me with something more to think about. Hell, I love moments in action movies that play more on your emotions than they do adrenaline. I'll be honest, it's kind of odd saying this considering I'm a fifteen year old male, but my favorite part of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 wasn't any action scene, but (vague spoilers)

the scene depicting a man mourning over the death of the love of his life.

That said, I definitely agree that they're both good in their own way.

[SuperStingray]

The way I see it, "art" is virtually synonymous with the word "communication" for all methods except direct telepathy, as telepathy doesn't require a medium to transfer information or ideas from one mind to another. Entertainment I see as a subcategory of art- that is, art intended to engross an audience rather than enrich them.

[Badnik Zero]

I've been on a horror kick lately, so the answer is entertainment. At the same time my favorite of the movies I've been watching is Alien, which has so many themes running through it its hard to not consider it artistic. So I go to movies to be entertained, but the ones that challenge me are by far my favorites.