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Knuckles' Chaotix Discussion


Segakid

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I don't know I've never been able to pass the final wireframe stage, but I bet I could with save states. I'm gonna make this a gaming goal of mine actually, for next time I play it. laugh.png

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I have managed to get the first four chaos rings so far. The third and fourth chaos rings are incredibly difficult to get. I have had to replay those stages so many times before I managed to get them. I am currently stuck on the fifth special stage. There is a section where you have to diagonally jump over bottomless pits and I just keep falling to my doom.

Edited by Nightwing
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Posting it here because it's actually on topic here:

Knuckles Chaotix wasn't developed in Japan. Sega's 1st party teams were focused mainly on Saturn by late 1994.

Look at the credits. Awful lot of names showed up that were shared from Sonic CD, Chaotix and NiGHTS and very few other things. And Chaotix as it appeared in late 1994 was already mostly finished, and Crackers' build date (if it can be trusted) was early 1994 anyway.

 

All Genesis,Sega CD projects going forward were developed in America. 32X's development and distribution was handled almost entirely by Sega of America.

The team behind Sonic CD were developing Nights at the time. They couldn't have been interested in a 32X project let alone a game that got little promotion and little fanfare. It was practically non existent in Japan.

Knuckles Chaotix was developed somewhat concurrently with Sonic 3 and Knuckles. You're telling me that Sonic Team was working on NiGHTS before the Saturn even came out? Before Naka even left S.T.I. to work on it? Chaotix wasn't even originally a 32X title anyway, and they wouldn't have swapped teams with a platform change.

The team developing NiGHTS were not working on NiGHTS before Naka was done with Sonic and Knuckles (because the entire thing was his idea built off of his game engine). The team developing Chaotix would not have had major involvement on Naka's behalf before Naka was done with Sonic and Knuckles (which they couldn't have gotten because it was started well before Sonic and Knuckles was done). And Sega wouldn't have started making what you say was originally "Sonic 4" before Naka was done with Sonic and Knuckles.

 

AM 2 DID develop SegaSonic. They are the sole HEAD 1st party Amusement development team at SEGA. Who else could have developed it? Not AM3 & AM4. They're all the Away-27 home consumer team.

Except it was Sega AM3.

You also have a really funny idea of how Sega was structured in the early 90's if you think AM2 was the only development studio that made arcade titles.

 

Sonic Crackers IS Choatix. The ROM board for the Cart came from Sega of America's office and is dated Friday April 1,1994. Sonic Team and STI had a joint venture with Sonic and Knuckles. Naka and STI had previous did Sonic 3 alone.(with Japanese and Japanese American only men.)

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! IT WAS HIS SLED! IT WAS EARTH ALL ALONG! Edited by Tornado
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Okay, well I have played this game relentlessly over the last three days. So my thoughts/first impressions of....

 

Chaotix_title.png

 

....are:

 

There can be no doubt that this is a very pretty looking title. Considering this was a 32x with supposed 32 bit capability, it should look good. The artistic design of the levels and bosses reminds me a lot of a Mega-Drive/Genesis game called Dynamite Headdy. The game tries very hard to not look and feel like the previous Genesis titles. The mixture of colours in levels such as Speed Slider and Techno Tower looks gorgeous.

 

Speed_slider.pngTechno_tower.pngI

 

I also like how each level has a 'day' and 'night' version.

 

The gameplay is a very stop and start (careful platforming and maddening speed) kind of nature. The two player rubber band co-op gimmick makes Knuckles Chaotix feel completely different from the Genesis titles. I found the progression a little be frustrating at first, but once I mastered the rubber band mechanic it became easier to get through the levels pretty fast.

 

There are effectively 26 levels (not counting the last two Metal Sonic bosses). Now that sounds like a lot considering Sonic 3&K has 25 acts in total, but the levels in Chaotix don't really take more than 3 to 4 minutes on average to finish, so it doesn't take quite as long to complete the game. For the most part the levels have really interesting design and lots of gimmicks that are unique to Chaotix. Pretty much all the badniks are unique designs with the exception of one badnik called, Kameka which is recycled from Sonic CD:

 

Kameka-spr.png

 

The level design can often be confusing, and unless you play the game a lot it's difficult to remember certain landmarks (like we do with the Genesis games), and thus it all seems to blend. Add to that the multiple routes (which is a big plus in this game) can make the levels rather confusing. However, the sheer number of routes and open platforming makes for an enjoyable experience overall. I have got to give Sonic Team credit, just like with Sonic CD they really tried hard to make this game a unique experience. It is good to see that they tried different ideas back in 1995.

 

It's just a shame that this game was made on the ill-fated 32x, as it could have been more popular had it been a Sega Saturn title.

 

Even the level ending sign-post looks different. It has a really cool 3d effect when it spins after you touch it.

 

Before you touch the sign-postChaotix-Eggman.png                  After you touch it Chaotix-Clear.png

 

The bosses in the game have very detailed designs. The boss fights were at best, okay. Not really that difficult, although it is hard to avoid losing rings in the fights. This is mainly because your partner in the game makes it slightly harder to control your attacks. You can so easily end up throwing your partner at the boss, only to then - yourself - be propelled straight into the line of fire. Ouch. That aside the bosses aren't anything special.

 

I do like the Amazing Arena (levels 1 to 5) kind of mini-boss which pops up shortly before the end of the level. You can't hit it. You need to avoid it's attacks for about 30 seconds, and then it goes away. It's a very strange design for a Sonic game. This sort of mid level-boss was very common in the game I mentioned earlier (Dynamite Headdy). It's pretty harmless. A nice addition.

 

The penultimate boss fight against Metal Sonic is such a bizarre concept. It just drags really. You just hope to get lucky by selecting the box marked with an 'x' each time. The attacks you have to evade if you select one of the other boxes are quite easy to avoid.

 

Metal Sonic Kai is the easiest final boss I have ever played in a Sonic game. It is a blatant rip-off of the Sonic 3&K Death Egg giant robot. I.e you destroy the hands/arms and then attack Metal Sonic Kai's body. I do like the 3d design of the boss and the arena's background.

 

In my first two playthroughs I got the bad ending. In my next I got the good ending. The ending sequences are nothing special. If anything I prefer the bad ending which shows the city on fire/covered in lava. Robotnik your one badass villian! Whereas the good ending shows the same title screen picture with Sonic and Tails at the top. Weird having two Sonic's on the same screen tongue.png  

 

The bonus stage is pretty cool. Although I don't like the fact that your ring total slowly counts down. The problem with this is that by the time you have collected some more rings, overall your rings total would have hardly increased.

 

I don't like the fact you don't have lives in this game, and that there are no extra lives awarded for getting 100/200 rings and no extra life item boxes. To be fair though you hardly ever die in the game. It has a very easy difficulty (with the exception of the special stages). I don't like that when you die, there is no death animation. That just screams lazy.

 

I like the new item boxes that you can pick up, such as the boxes that make your character temporarily smaller or larger. It looks really cool. I also think that the box that briefly gives you control of the your AI partner, and the box that can temporarily switch your AI partner to a different character, are really fun ideas. The blue ring box is a god send. When this item box is collected, it remains with the player until hit. Then, instead of all the rings flying across the map, one giant ring comes out, and when retrieved, all rings are returned. All of my love!

 

  Knuckles_Chaotix_Shrink.gif       Knuckles_Chaotix_Grow.gif       Knuckles_Chaotix_Swap.gif       Knuckles_Chaotix_Change.gif        Knuckles_Chaotix_Combi-Ring.gif

 

The concept of having to choose a partner can be frustrating, as trying to select the character you want is more of a lottery. The game should let you select who you want to play as. I don't see the point of the dud characters. The five chaotix are enough to choose from, although it would have been nice to have had Tails in the game as well. 

 

Overall I have been playing as Knuckles with Sonic........I mean Mighty the Armadillo as my AI partner. I know Mighty looks just like Sonic, it's a blatant re-design of Sonic's; Sonic CD/Sonic 1 sprite, but it's still cool though, and Mighty is pretty damn fast in this game.

 

I like the little character animations that you see when the characters have stood still for a while, like Knuckles crouching down-twiddling his rubber band ring and Vector dancing, lol. I also like Knuckles climbing animation, because it makes him look slightly more like an Echidna.

 

I'm okay with the random choosing of the levels, as playing five acts of the same level on the trot can get frustrating and boring if you don't like that particular level. Overall though I like all the levels.

 

That leads me to the special stages.

 

Chaotix_specialstage.png

 

I gotta say that I absolutely love the 3d Hexagonal maze design. It's really interesting platforming. It's nice that they brought back the Blue Sphere's from 3&K. I also like that you can move up the walls of the stage which then becomes the floor (from your perspective) as you move. It's quite dis-orientating, but fun once you get used to it. 

 

To be fair the special stage does kind of overstay it's welcome, as it can go on for ages. I like very much how your ring total from the level is carried into the special stage, giving you incentive to explore the levels throughly to get as many rings as you can. Your rings counting down in the special stage gives you something to think about, but it's fair. 

 

It's ironic that there are no death pits in the levels, like in Sonic CD (with the exception of Metallic Madness Zone 3) which is nice, but the special stages are filled with instant fail death pits. Getting used to the jumping controls-especially jumping diagonally, has been a constant frustration. Sometimes I was near the edge of a platform, I jumped but fell straight down into a pit. I had to learn that the slower Knuckles is moving, he will not jump very far. I am getting better at the special stages though. Their hard, but fair.

 

Oh and as for replaying the special stages again from the see-through wireframe perspective after you have obtained all six chaos rings? No fucking thank you.

 

The music has some nice tracks. Not up to the standard of Sonic CD, but MUCH better than Sonic 4's offerings.

 

Summary:

 

I found Knuckles Chaotix to be a very interesting game. Quite fun at times. Has a weird story and level hub structure, and doesn't have great replay value, but a decent Sonic game experience all the same. Would love to see this ported to PSN/Xbla at some point. Would look pretty sweet in HD widescreen. Here's hoping. 

Edited by -Bender-
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I've never been able to beat the second wireframe special stage. If you beat all six wireframe stages do special rings stop appearing at the end of levels or do they just loop?

 

I can finally answer your question.

 

Just done another playthrough of Chaotix's. I got all six chaos rings and then completed the second set-wireframe special stages. After you complete the sixth wireframe stage, all six wireframe stages just loop again. 

 

I used save states to complete the 4th, 5th and 6th wireframe stages as they are so fucking hard. The main problem is that if you try to be clever (like taking a chance by moving left or right when you don't know what is coming), you will just full down a bottomless pit. The best technique I found is to try and stick to a straightforward route, and make sure you have at least 150 rings when going into the wireframe special stages as you will miss blue spheres a lot and will have to repeat the sections to find the missing spheres.

 

All you get for completing a wireframe special stage is 50,000 points, nothing more. So there really isn't much point in doing them unless you like sheer frustration. This does mean you can build up a pretty decent score though. My score was 1,041,800 points at the end of the game.

Edited by Nightwing
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*Sees people saying how hard Special Stages are*

 

Well, they are, but I don't think they reach to a "frustrating hard" level.

 

I used to use Vector/Espio and I once had fun breaking the game with Charmy's infinite fly :P

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I collect Sonic games, but sadly this isn't one I own. I keep trying to find the pair of these in England for cheap, but I cant for the life of me find one for the Megadrive 2 that won't cost me a bomb, and it's bugging me.

 

From what I've seen it's a bit hit and miss, like the Marmite of the classic sonic series. Some people love it, others hate it. I can't wait to get a real copy and try it out (ps. I'm not emulating it to give me more reason to actually buy it)

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By the way for those who emulated this, do you know how hard it was in the original game to throw a partner reliably? Think about a Genesis game pad. Pick and throw was the B button and jump was C. That means if you wanna throw while jumping, a technique useful for bosses and just in general, you need about two thumbs on your right hand, or you mash C with the side of your thumb while trying not to let go of the first button. If ported they better make sure to map the hold button to a trigger or something. Ha ha and call partner was the A button for maximum fun times.

Edited by American Ristar
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I noticed that the ring total in Knuckles Chaotix levels only goes up to a maximum of 255. Apparently the game has a cap of 255 rings instead of 999. Then any other rings collected are turned into points.

 

I really don't understand why they did that. Some levels like Isolated Island do have at least 300 rings. It just seems a strange thing to do. I mean why not cap it at a nice round number like 300 or 200 (the maximum amount of rings that you can take into a special stage is 200), instead of 255. Since all the Genesis games have a cap of 999, this really is odd.

 

It may not seem like a big deal, but as I like trying to collect as many rings as I can in the levels, it is rather annoying. 

 

EDIT: Apparently it's to do with this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/255_(number)

 

"In computing, 255 is a special number in some tasks having to do with computing. This is the maximum value representable by an eight-digit binary number, and therefore the maximum representable by an unsigned 8-bit byte (the most common size of byte, also called an oclet), the smallest common variable size used in high level programming languages (bit being smaller, but rarely used for value storage). The range is 0 to 255, which is 256 total values.

17e2f97fff674f6b266459e80dfa38ff.png

For example, 255 is the maximum value

  • that can be assigned to elements in the 24-bot RGB color model, since each color channel is allotted eight bits.
  • of any dotted quad in an IP address.
  • of the alpha blending scale in Delphi (255 being 100% visible and 0 being fully transparent)

The use of eight bits for storage in older video games has had the consequence of it appearing as a hard limit in many video games. For example, in the earlier versions of  The Legend of Zelda, Link can carry a maximum of 255 rupees. It was often used for numbers where casual gameplay would not cause anyone to exceed the number. However, in most situations it is reachable given enough time. This can cause many other peculiarities to appear when the number wraps back to 0.

This number could be interpreted by a computer as -1 if a programmer is not careful about which 8-bit values are signed and unsigned, and the two's complement representation of −1 in a signed byte is equal to that of 255 in an unsigned byte."

 

Thanks Dio, Blue Blood and Spin Attaxx for answering my question in the status update.

Edited by Nightwing
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I have a copy of it and personally, a question I ask, is, "why is it so damn easy?" I literally beat it the day I got it last year.

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When I need to relax before a speech a Sonic game always does the trick. However, I'm not too fond of Knuckles' Chaotix. The level design is extremely repetitive, even more so than Romney's outrageous false promises!

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