A theory to explain Blaze's history

[Anarnee]

Ug think about this gives me a headache. I'm sure someone else has had a similar idea to mine but yeah.

Maybe its similar to... dun dun dun... DBZ, in that Blaze and Silver are from the future but it can't fix what happened in their future world. Maybe now that Ibilis has been sealed and so Blaze and Silver will not be born in the future anymore but there is still the Blaze and Silver from the same time, different dimension?

I hope that makes sense.

I'm more of a fan of the different dimension idea because that means that they can exist easily with the other characters without messing with the future.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Anarnee

[McNarrow]

Hello, I'm New.

 

Here's my theory: In 200 years, the chaos Emerald have changed shape for some reason and are called the Sol Emerald, Blaze is the princess/Queen of some place and the guardian of those Emeralds and Silver is some guy living in this world that she don't know. Eggman Nega is the descendant of Eggman, a criminal in this world and enemy of both Blaze and Silver (but they don't know each other, probably because they don't live in the same place).

 

Each time Sonic and Blaze meet they think (wrongly) they are from different worlds, and each time Sonic and Silver meet they think (with reason) they are from different time.

 

this theory explain most of the paradox, the only problem is: Why did the Chaos Emerald change shape, well they are mysterious gemstones with yet unknown powers, so they can whatever they want, I don't mind.

 

this is my personal theory, canonically, I think sega mess up at every turn, and they have no logical way to explain these plot

holes

[Spin Attaxx]

First off, hi.

 

But the Sol Emeralds are, without any doubt or conflicting evidence whatsoever, opposite Chaos Emeralds. They aren't the Chaos Emeralds with a new look and name.

 

The Sol Dimension is explicitly another dimension - aside from every profile stating clearly it's another world, what else would the Power of the Stars (the stuff keeping it and Sonic's world seperate) be doing there? And if it wasn't another world, the main threat of Rush (the two worlds fusing together) could simply never have happened.

 

Silver and Nega are from Sonic's world sometime in the future, and Blaze is from her own world with the same time period as Sonic's. Hell, Blaze may as well have never been in 06. If you want, you could easily say

Edited June 14, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Diogenes]

The problem with thinking Blaze is actually from the future is that it contradicts every game she's in except for '06. Literally every other time it's come up she's confirmed to be from an alternate dimension.

[McNarrow]

The last time I played Rush and Rush Adventure is quite a long time ago and the wiki pages on the Sol Emeralds don't give that much information so I don't recall exactly what they say about it, I will play a bit later.

 

But if my theory stand, the simple fact that the chaos Emerald and the Sol Emerald are in the same Time should cause some strange phenomenum, given that uniques objects with "magical" property are suddenly not so unique anymore. (Think meeting your future self in back to the future).

 

In 200 years the world could change in many way (look 06), if you don't have the historic background you could think it's 2 different worlds. The same apply in our world, forget everything you know about history and compare now with 200 years ago, it'll look quite different.

Edited June 14, 2013 by McNarrow

[Kuzu]

The last time I played Rush and Rush Adventure is quite a long time ago and the wiki pages on the Sol Emeralds don't give that much information so I don't recall exa

 

The story is that she's a princess from another dimension parallel to Sonic's.

 

 

Her appearance in 06 directly contradicts this because no mention of the Sol Emeralds or her heritage are mentioned.

[McNarrow]

I'm not looking for the synopsis, I'm looking for the facts (not the assumptions made by the characters) of the game. But like I said , there is a great chance that there is no real way out of this plot hole, because the Sonic Team don't try really hard to make stories that makes sense, they try to makes stories that are cool and recently, they don't even manage to do that. =_="

[Sega DogTagz]

 

But if my theory stand, the simple fact that the chaos Emerald and the Sol Emerald are in the same Time should cause some strange phenomenum, given that uniques objects with "magical" property are suddenly not so unique anymore. (Think meeting your future self in back to the future).

 

Eh, your theory has a few holes in it though. Mephilies proved a handful of times that bringing future chaos emeralds in contact with their past variants really doesn't amount to much. Remember that he carried around the purple emerald in the future and past and there were no notable effects to the emeralds themselves or the planet at large. On top of toting that emerald around, he brought it in direct contact with a past emerald after locating it in the desert, and also untied it with all the other emeralds when he merged with Solaris. Silver also "duplicated" an emerald by leaving it in the past, and the world got along just fine as Elise grew up with a chaos emerald that also simultaneously existed elsewhere on the planet.

 

The Sol Emeralds on the other hand are proven to create extreme adverse effects on the planet when introduced to the same plane as the Chaos Emerlds, and not put into the possession of someone who can control them. By this theory alone, we can deduce that either

 

a.) The Sol Emeralds are not some future variant of Chaos Emeralds - as the world does not suffer when future emeralds are brought to the past

 

or

 

b.) Mephilies, Elise, Silver and Eggman all somehow have the same calming effect on the Chaos/Sol emeralds that Sonic and Blaze do.

 

to be honest, option B makes no sense. I think we have to go with A.

 

 

Furthermore, Sonic, Tails, Knux, Shadow and Rouge all encountered a Chaos Emerald in the ruined future, and it retained its original shape - adding further scrutiny to your head-cannon

 

there is a great chance that there is no real way out of this plot hole,

 

They blew up a space time deity in the middle of a time-looping back on itself adventure.

 

If they had half a mind to put this to rest, all they would have to do is say "Solaris F-ed up timespace" and that would be 100% problem solved. Its a cop out solution, but it is a solution.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[-blank-]

Hasn't it been confirmed by SEGA themselves that Sonic 06 isn't Blaze's backstory?

[Sega DogTagz]

Hasn't it been confirmed by SEGA themselves that Sonic 06 isn't Blaze's backstory?

 

Yep. Rush Blaze is legit Blaze. 

 

However, they just seem to like contradicting themselves with little tidbits of 06 here and the. (In some games, Blaze remembers little things about 06 and later goes on to talk about Marine - thus attempts to piece canon together explode in your face). Its like they want to have it both ways... and they ignore Eggman Nega's role in all this like the plague.

[Spin Attaxx]

He's Eggman's desendant.

 

The way I see it, Nega went through time/space to take over the Sol Dimension to earn him some needed street cred (and he decided to share it with Eggman - pretendng to be his counterpart because paradoxes are bad, m'kay?). When it backfired twice he decided to eliminate the problem at its source and get rid of Eggman. And now he's in the world of a giant fire dragon.

 

And I've come up with a stupid theory as to how Blaze knows Crisis City - she went to Crisis City before '06 began (mayhaps to get a Sol Emerald?), met Silver (who thinks she's native to the future - then learns she isn't) and left. Timey Whimey shit lets her remember it, while Silver (who's going mad from isolation) deludes himself into thinking Blaze was ALWAYS his friend.

 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Sega DogTagz]

He's Eggman's desendant.

 

The way I see it, Nega went through time/space to take over the Sol Dimension to earn him some needed street cred (and he decided to share it with Eggman - pretendng to be his counterpart because paradoxes are bad, m'kay?). When it backfired twice he decided to eliminate the problem at its source and get rid of Eggman. And now he's in the world of a giant fire dragon.

 

 

If that were the only case, then why did Silver chase Eggman Nega back in time during the Rivals series - but not during the Rush series?

 

Eggman Nega simply can't be both Silver and Blaze's mortal enemy as it currently stands. Silver has already shown that he simply wouldn't let Nega walk away from their conflict. He would follow him no matter what.

 

 

The only solution I see, it that Nega faked his death in the future (getting Silver off his back) and moved shop to Blaze's dimension in Sonic's time. The alternate dimension helps keep his identity a secret in the annals of history (and at the same time keeps his existence in the past a secret from Silver). That way, he is free to spend years terrorizing Blaze, and only has to deal with Silver when he jumps ship back to Sonic's world.

[Spin Attaxx]

If that were the only case, then why did Silver chase Eggman Nega back in time during the Rivals series - but not during the Rush series?

Chances are he managed to give Silver the slip. Or maybe Silver just knew Nega was destined to fail. Or maybe Nega returned 1 second after he left, so technically he failed before Silver could even know or do anything about it.

 

Eggman Nega simply can't be both Silver and Blaze's mortal enemy as it currently stands.

Yes he can. That's how Sonic Team sees it at the moment anyway.

 

The only solution I see, it that Nega faked his death in the future (getting Silver off his back) and moved shop to Blaze's dimension in Sonic's time. The alternate dimension helps keep his identity a secret in the annals of history (and at the same time keeps his existence in the past a secret from Silver). That way, he is free to spend years terrorizing Blaze, and only has to deal with Silver when he jumps ship back to Sonic's world.

OK, so then why does Eggman team up (twice!) with the same guy who usurped him AND tried to destroy the world? He didn't even bother changing his (stupid and unimaginative) appearance and name, so Eggman couldn't be fooled (unless you want to shave his IQ to, maybe 10).

 

It makes more sense for Eggman to ally himself with Nega, THEN have Nega do things himself.

 

EDIT: All this and it's not even asking how in God's name Nega got out of that fiery hellhole. And before you say "Eggman got out of White World HURRR", there's a chance Lost World will explain it.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Kareemadeem]

If that were the only case, then why did Silver chase Eggman Nega back in time during the Rivals series - but not during the Rush series?

The beginning of the Rush series predates Silver who debuted in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), and Silver was created as a psychokinetic in order to utilize the new physics engine added to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). So his character concept was nonexistent at the time.

[Dr. Detective]

If that were the only case, then why did Silver chase Eggman Nega back in time during the Rivals series - but not during the Rush series?

 

Eggman Nega simply can't be both Silver and Blaze's mortal enemy as it currently stands. Silver has already shown that he simply wouldn't let Nega walk away from their conflict. He would follow him no matter what.

 

 

The only solution I see, it that Nega faked his death in the future (getting Silver off his back) and moved shop to Blaze's dimension in Sonic's time. The alternate dimension helps keep his identity a secret in the annals of history (and at the same time keeps his existence in the past a secret from Silver). That way, he is free to spend years terrorizing Blaze, and only has to deal with Silver when he jumps ship back to Sonic's world.

 

That's the only solution you see? Why would Nega need to fake his death? I doubt he and Silver live together. It wouldn't be hard for him to just go into another dimension without Silver knowing. Just like Eggman can build all his ships and set up his bases without Sonic always being there because he doesn't have some sort of Eggman-finding radar in his skull. 

[Sega DogTagz]

OK, so then why does Eggman team up (twice!) with the same guy who usurped him AND tried to destroy the world? He didn't even bother changing his (stupid and unimaginative) appearance and name, so Eggman couldn't be fooled (unless you want to shave his IQ to, maybe 10).

 

For the same reason he kept trying to enslave mega monsters to do his bidding even though repeated experiences should have taught him better?

 

He saw an opportunity and he took it.. and to be fair, Nega didn't really usurp him in either Rush or Rush Adventure. He did lose his cool a bit in those games, but he didn't do anything that would warrant Eggman to really regret teaming up with him again in the future.

 

The beginning of the Rush series predates Silver who debuted in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), and Silver was created as a psychokinetic in order to utilize the new physics engine added to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). So his character concept was nonexistent at the time.

 

I know this is the internet, but you don't really need to source common knowledge like that. ^^ It'll save you some time. 

 

The thing about all this is, when Sonic Rivals was released, Sonic Team had already established Nega as Blaze's lifetime arch-nemesis. By adding in Silver's longtime struggles with the doctor to that mix, Sonic Team jacked up his place in the established continuum. Despite the Rush series predating Silver's created squabbles with Nega, the fact that he was established as a time traveler who would follow Nega to the ends of the earth to get his revenge dish out justice undermines Nega's place in the world as Blaze's lifetime enemy.

 

That's the only solution you see? Why would Nega need to fake his death? I doubt he and Silver live together. It wouldn't be hard for him to just go into another dimension without Silver knowing. Just like Eggman can build all his ships and set up his bases without Sonic always being there because he doesn't have some sort of Eggman-finding radar in his skull. 

 

Silver has already shown the dedication to tracking Nega down across both time and dimensions. (Rivals 1 and 2). If Silver had reason to suspect that Nega left his time behind to go cause trouble elsewhere, then you can bet he would have hopped on his horse and figured out where Nega went off too.

 

Now, if he were to fake his death... there would be nothing for Silver left to investigate, leaving Nega free to terrorize Blaze's world without fear of Silver getting up and following him.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Spin Attaxx]

He saw an opportunity and he took it.. and to be fair, Nega didn't really usurp him in either Rush or Rush Adventure. He did lose his cool a bit in those games, but he didn't do anything that would warrant Eggman to really regret teaming up with him again in the future.

Not even threatening to destroy the world AGAIN (which Eggman implies would kill the two of them as well)?

 

Eggman: What? No! You're mad! Don't push that button...!

Nega: Planet-Buster Laser, FIRE!

I  doubt he'd want to do anything with a lunatic who tried to off him (directly or not) no less than three times (heck, maybe even four!) again.

 

Also:

For the same reason he kept trying to enslave mega monsters to do his bidding even though repeated experiences should have taught him better?

He at least has a better chance at controlling mindless beasts than clearly insane and suicidal hacks humans.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Dr. Detective]

 

Silver has already shown the dedication to tracking Nega down across both time and dimensions. (Rivals 1 and 2). If Silver had reason to suspect that Nega left his time behind to go cause trouble elsewhere, then you can bet he would have hopped on his horse and figured out where Nega went off too.

 

Now, if he were to fake his death... there would be nothing for Silver left to investigate, leaving Nega free to terrorize Blaze's world without fear of Silver getting up and following him.

 

 

 

Yeah, I know about Silver's determination. I don't get why that means that whenever Eggman Nega does something Silver has to automatically know about it. If he were to just leave what's the problem? How would Silver know where he went if he truly did think he left the timeline all together? Why wouldn't Silver just assume Eggman Nega was being inactive because he was off building something or constructing his base? How would Silver even be able to cross dimensions? He isn't a technical genius like Nega.

 

Sorry, but that's a bit overreaching. Nega (like Eggman or anyone for that matter) should be able to just cross over into a dimension and terrorize it there without having to worry about Silver  finding out. 

 

I doubt when Eggman goes missing for a day Sonic just goes "He must've left the timeline" and goes off searching for him and than somehow manages to both find out that he crossed dimensions and manages to use the machine he used to go to the exact same dimension he crossed over into. It really, REALLY wouldn't be hard for Nega to just do that without Silver even noticing that he left the timeline entirely. 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Crystal Chaotix 3

[Sega DogTagz]

I  doubt he'd want to do anything with a lunatic who tried to off him (directly or not) no less than three times (heck, maybe even four!) again.

 

so, he lost his tempter a touch, he's a passionate man ^^

 

Its not like Eggman has never done or built anything that indirectly would have lead to the destruction of either himself or the planet

 

*cough*MetalSonic*coguh*FinalEggBlaster*cough*PerfectChaos*cough*AwakenedEmerl*cough*hack*wheeze*

 

 

I doubt when Eggman goes missing for a day Sonic just goes "He must've left the timeline" and goes off searching for him and than somehow manages to both find out that he crossed dimensions and manages to use the machine he used to go to the exact same dimension he crossed over into. It really, REALLY wouldn't be hard for Nega to just do that without Silver even noticing that he left the timeline entirely. 

 

Isn't this pretty much what happened in the rivals series? Silver ups and follows Nega presumably with the same tech Nega used to make the jump?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Spin Attaxx]

Its not like Eggman has never done or built anything that indirectly would have lead to the destruction of either himself or the planet

 

*cough*MetalSonic*coguh*FinalEggBlaster*cough*PerfectChaos*cough*AwakenedEmerl*cough*hack*wheeze*

Should I point out that the last of those four was something he didn't intend to happen, and that the first two were things he's (mostly) had 100% control over?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Dr. Detective]

 

Isn't this pretty much what happened in the rivals series? Silver ups and follows Nega presumably with the same tech Nega used to make the jump?

 

Yeah, it happened. That's the only way that makes sense. Silver managed to catch on to Eggman Nega's trail and followed him to a different point in time. But we don't know the circumstances behind how that happened. Why would anyone assume it's just because whenever Nega does something Silver knows about it and can follow him wherever?  I don't understand why you're trying to say that Eggman Nega can't just do stuff like this without Silver finding out. Just because Silver is determined to track him down? 

 

We don't know how Silver came to find out about Nega's plan. The Rivals series are situations where he succeeded at finding out. But that means Nega can never do it without Silver knowing? Logic would dictate that Nega can just go somewhere around the world and enact his plan there without telling Silver. He can't just go there using a device in his base or flying fortress without telling Silver or leading him on? Silver, with no leads, can just assume that whenever Eggman Nega is gone for a certain amount of time it absolutely means he left the time-line AND crossed into Blaze's specific dimension?

 

This all seems pretty simple. I don't understand what it is that you're trying to say holds Nega back from being able to cross dimensions without Silver finding out. 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Crystal Chaotix 3

[Sega DogTagz]

Should I point out that the last of those four was something he didn't intend to happen, and that the first two were things he's (mostly) had 100% control over?

 

He sure had 100% control over metal Sonic when he got usurped and locked in his own control room.

 

either way Nega wasn't the only one who's actions almost ended the world -multiple times. I don't see how Eggman of all people would let that stop him from furture team ups. He's been there before.

 

 

This all seems pretty simple. I don't understand what it is that you're trying to say holds Nega back from being able to cross dimensions without Silver finding out. 

 

Silver has the vantage-point of history. Even if Nega were to jump dimensions, sooner or later he's going to come into contact with Sonic and his world (its inevitable like in Rush 1) and that kind of news would assuredly trickle its way back to Silver. Once it does, Silver would "begin the search" and find a way to follow him.

 

Eventually Silver is going to find out because Nega ambitions lie in taking over Sonic's world (or all worlds, same difference) Thanks to the beauty of time travel, the second Silver gets a whiff of some foul play, we should almost expect to see him walking around Green Hill Zone.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Spin Attaxx]

He sure had 100% control over metal Sonic when he got usurped and locked in his own control room.

 

either way Nega wasn't the only one who's actions almost ended the world -multiple times. I don't see how Eggman of all people would let that stop him from furture team ups. He's been there before.

Keyword: MOSTLY.

 

And before and since then, Metal's done nothing like that.

 

And you're still missing the point - it's nonsensical for Nega to be Eggman's enemy only to team up with him twice. You pretty much cling onto the necessary belief that Eggman is a big enough fool to trust someone who usurped him AND tried to destroy the world (and potentialy take Eggman with it) TWICE.

 

It's more logical for the Rush series to happen, THEN the Rivals series.

[Dr. Detective]

 

 

Silver has the vantage-point of history. Even if Nega were to jump dimensions, sooner or later he's going to come into contact with Sonic and his world (its inevitable like in Rush 1) and that kind of news would assuredly trickle its way back to Silver. Once it does, Silver would "begin the search" and find a way to follow him.

 

Eventually Silver is going to find out because Nega ambitions lie in taking over Sonic's world (or all worlds, same difference) Thanks to the beauty of time travel, the second Silver gets a whiff of some foul play, we should almost expect to see him walking around Green Hill Zone.

 

What? So now you're bringing up new information. And what you you're saying here is that no matter what, if Nega jumps into Blaze's dimension sooner or later he's going to come in contact with Sonic and his world? And that it's inevitable? What exactly makes it inevitable? It was very possible for him to just not go into Sonic's world and current timeline in that game. 

 

And than we have to rely on the assumption that the info is going to trickle back to Silver no matter what if those circumstances are met. This is some really hollow reasoning man. 

The guy just jumped into Blaze's dimension without Silver finding out. 

[Sega DogTagz]

What? So now you're bringing up new information. And what you you're saying here is that no matter what, if Nega jumps into Blaze's dimension sooner or later he's going to come in contact with Sonic and his world? And that it's inevitable? What exactly makes it inevitable? It was very possible for him to just not go into Sonic's world and current timeline in that game. 

 

 

 

 

Its what has happened already. Nega won't stay in Blaze's world for long. He's gonna make a power play into Sonic's world eventually. Its just the way he works. Sooner or later, he's going to be Sonic's problem. Its inevitable in the sense that Sonic is the main character, and as soon as Nega cooks up something that Blaze can't handle, guess who's getting involved.

 

No its not possible for Nega not to make the jump to Sonic's world eventually. Sonic is the main character and the storys revolve around him. 3 out of the 4 games Nega's been a part of, He has invaded Sonic's dimension. Even in Rush Adventure, he reached out to Eggman to bring him over to Blaze's world. He can't stay out of this zone if he wanted too.

 

Once Sonic is on the scene, it makes no since that Silver wouldn't show up. He's got his eyes on the past like its his job or something.

 

 

The guy just jumped into Blaze's dimension without Silver finding out. 

 

That would be all fine and well, if he stayed in Blaze's dimension, which he never does.