Sonic Unleashed and the Modern Formula

[Ivo the Egghog]

Alright y'all. This has been a pretty large topic of debate in the Generations thread... What exactly do you think of Unleashed's modern formula? What needs fixed? Should Sonic Team go in a new direction for the next game? Get it all out here.

Personally, I liked Unleashed. While I wouldn't call it a perfect game, it certainly deserves much more credit than it gets. When it comes down to it, I feel like the modern formula is a blast to play. (or should I say boost? :V) It really captures that sense of super speed, which is Sonic's main and arguably most famous ability. I also like the smooth transitions into the 2.5D for some light platforming, the array of moves (such as boosting, homing attack, quick stepping, wall jumping, sliding and stomping), and the dynamic camera that shifts right to where you need it at the time, not to mention awesome cinematic events in stages. The only things that bother me are the loose controls and how linear it can be at parts, ultimately leading to less 3D platforming and exploration.

Colors and Generations seem to be tweaking minor things here and there for an all around better experience, which is what I think Sonic needs right now. Go with something that is generally well-received and improve upon it. That seems to be SEGA and Sonic Team's plan right now and they're doing a pretty good job with it. However, as many members of this forum have stated, this formula won't stay fresh forever. Some feel they should expand on this modern formula and others are asking for a whole new gameplay direction. Feel free to discuss what direction you feel Sonic should go in as well.

[HUNTER297]

I like Unleashed formula. But it almost completly close doors for other chars. To appear playable.

What I like about Sonic is that series changes formula each 2-3 games. I think after this aniversary we should start brand new era of Sonic.

Era of new gameplay formulas for all consoles (including handelds) and bringing other playables.

[ChikaBoing]

It uses similar lighting and particel effects of Mario Galaxy on characters and enviorments.

Therefore it is amazing.

[Diogenes]

It's shallow, limiting gameplay that relies on cheap thrills rather than any sort of depth. The small improvements that Colors and Generations made aren't enough, because they're just polishing the surface while the core rots.

It really captures that sense of super speed,

Unfortunately it does it more like a movie than a game. The speed is almost entirely "hold boost, lookit 'im go!" And the game plays itself to the point where 3 of Unleashed's levels can be beaten without touching the control stick at all, and most sections play no worse than normal.

the array of moves (such as boosting, homing attack, quick stepping, wall jumping, sliding and stomping),

The problem is that most of these moves are just keys. That is, there's only one real use for them, and they're really only useful in places where you're specifically required to use them, so they offer no more depth than "blue key goes in blue door". Or a QTE.

and the dynamic camera that shifts right to where you need it at the time,

I've had the camera go wrong in Unleashed about as much as it has in the Adventures.

not to mention awesome cinematic events in stages.

Shallow and flashy, like everything else. It's not necessarily bad to have things like this, but it's basically all Unleashed has to offer.

[Detective Shadzter]

They can tweak the Unleashed/Colours/Generations modern formula all they like, but I just don't enjoy it one bit. I like the 2D sections, but the 3D sections are too linear and dull, and boosting makes it hard to see what's coming in front of you. I also hate the lack of platforming in 3D and not being able to run around and explore. I really want them to try something new in the next 3D Sonic game.

Oh, and I'd like the next 3D entry to be a completely 3D game. Sonic Team don't need to keep trying to cater to the Classic and 2D fans with these games. We have Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and the handheld titles (which are always 2D) for that.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Shadzter

[Ivo the Egghog]

It's shallow, limiting gameplay that relies on cheap thrills rather than any sort of depth. The small improvements that Colors and Generations made aren't enough, because they're just polishing the surface while the core rots.

I agree with your points to a degree... but Generations is looking mighty fun to me. There's no real way for either of us to tell until we get our hands on the game though.

I had no clue you could beat three levels with no control stick in Unleashed. I just watched someone on youtube beat Savannah Citadel with no control stick. That's bad no matter how you slice it, no arguments there.

As far as the moves go, well of course you use them where you're supposed to... the levels are designed to cater to these moves. You really used a poor example, it's obviously more complex than "Blue key goes in blue door." Oversimplifying at it's finest.

I've never really had trouble with the camera in modern games, Adventure is a whole 'nother story. (God the camera sucked.)

And as far as cinematic events go, I can see why some hate them, but I think they're pretty cool. Shallow? If used too often with no real point, yes. If done in a creative way that doesn't detract from the amount of gameplay you get in a stage, then I don't really see how it's shallow.

To clarify, I'm on the fence with the modern formula. I enjoyed Colors far more than Unleashed, and I'm really waiting to see what Generations does with it. However, I much prefer Sonic's gameplay in the Adventure series to be honest. I can see how you feel it's shallow in comparison. I really miss the exploration and platforming that the Adventure series had to offer. I feel like the next game after Generations is the best chance to take the series' gameplay in a new direction. If they can find a new and creative way to blend speed, platforming, and exploration... we could have a winner on our hands.

EDIT for spelling.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Ivo the Egghog

[Blue Blood]

First things first- I love the daytime stages in Unleashed, enjoy Colours and am very excited to play Generations.

That said, I don't want to see another game like Unleashed or Rush for a long time. Dio summed it up with one word; shallow. They are meant to be played with the boost being used as much as possible (so don't tell me I don't have to boost), and anything else amounts to little more than a QTE or cutscene. Like I've said time and time again, the gameplay itself isn't 3D. You're practically on rails, and homing, stomping, or switching lanes as the game tells you to. Whatever it is makes no difference really. Because of how limited the gameplay style is, the actual level layouts can't be designed in any other way. Ever tried boosting around the Unleashed Entrance Stages? Absolute nightmare. The drift is a cool and nifty move. It can only really work with Unleashed style level design though. Or a racing/driving game. Any other time you either wouldn't be moving at boost speeds so turning would actually be possible, or you'd slow down.

The 2D gameplay rather sucks for how basic it is too. Simple platforming on simple paths. Generations does a somewhat better job of it, but ultimately there's still very little to the 2D areas. And besides that, I don't want any more 2D gameplay in my (supposedly) 3D Sonic games. They're using the 2D sections as a buffer for the poor 3D designs.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Diogenes]

I agree with your points to a degree... but Generations is looking mighty fun to me. There's no real way for either of us to tell until we get our hands on the game though.

I only got Unleashed recently. But I watched plenty of videos between its announcement and then, and through them I built up a pretty solid picture of the game in my head. And when I played it myself, pretty much everything I thought about it was confirmed.

So while I'll continue to analyze and refine my opinion as more videos and such come out, I don't really think I need to play the game to know.

As far as the moves go, well of course you use them where you're supposed to... the levels are designed to cater to these moves. You really used a poor example, it's obviously more complex than "Blue key goes in blue door." Oversimplifying at it's finest.

What use is the slide, besides sliding under things that can't be passed any other way? What use is the light dash, besides traveling across specific lines of rings? What use is the quick step, besides dodging things while running down a hallway? All these moves have very specific uses and very little purpose outside of them. Compare it to something like the spin attack from the Mario Galaxy games; it's a general-purpose attack, it activates certain objects and powers, it acts as a small second jump, and it even helps you swim faster. It's a simple move with many uses, versus many simple moves with one use each.

[Blue Blood]

Forgot to add this to my previous post. We're on our fourth (third if you only want to count one version of Unleashed) game that uses the same, shallow gameplay. There's very little that can be expanded upon. Scrap it before it gets staler.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Ivo the Egghog]

What use is the slide, besides sliding under things that can't be passed any other way? What use is the light dash, besides traveling across specific lines of rings? What use is the quick step, besides dodging things while running down a hallway? All these moves have very specific uses and very little purpose outside of them. Compare it to something like the spin attack from the Mario Galaxy games; it's a general-purpose attack, it activates certain objects and powers, it acts as a small second jump, and it even helps you swim faster. It's a simple move with many uses, versus many simple moves with one use each.

A valid point i guess. Mario Galaxy has a much better flow of gameplay than Unleashed and Colors. Both Galaxy 1 and 2 were some damn good games.

[thedude2011]

The gameplay was too fast and clumsy for me. The drifting and QTE were terrible and caused me to die several times. It was together with Sonic's gameplay (where you go super fast) in Sonic 06 the most irritating gameplay since SA2.

In my opinion, this is the list of best executed Sonic gameplay on consoles:

SA2 > SA1 > Heroes > Sonic 06 > Unleashed

[Chibinuva]

Yeah, it is pretty fun, but would be nice if they changed it to be more like older games (such as Shadow the Hedgehog, which is the only 3-D old game I have,) with more paths and exploration and less "BOOST BOOST BOOST BUTTON BOOST" gameplay. However, I didn't mind Unleashed (though I actually liked the Werehog gameplay,) and from what I've seen so far, Colors and Generations look awesome. However, I think they should use Generations as a transition to another style of gameplay (hopefully an improvement.)

[Nepenthe]

We're on the third iteration with roughly the same gameplay because we've made it very clear to Sega that egregious changes to formulas that work aren't wanted. Scrapping it is not going to fix the issue of stagnation because, honestly, Sonic Team's not going to replace it with anything that's fresh, unique, and works the first time anyways. Let's be real here: Our two options under that circumstance are either we get faux Genesis gameplay that does nothing but piss hardcores and cynics off because some element of it is wrong and thus it inevitably pales in comparison to the overstated perfection of a 17-year old game or, considering nothing else they tried has worked, a completely new or off-shoot style that ends up in the same situation as Daytime gameplay and still misses a lot of the checkpoints on cynics' list needed for the ultimate 3D Sonic game. I'm not about to put my eggs in either basket, not when Daytime style is the most progress they've made in years and not when it's a perfectly good foundation to work off of in the first place. No. Just no.

[Kuzu]

We're on the third iteration with roughly the same gameplay because we've made it very clear to Sega that egregious changes to formulas that work aren't wanted. Scrapping it is not going to fix the issue of stagnation because, honestly, Sonic Team's not going to replace it with anything that's fresh, unique, and works the first time anyways. Let's be real here: Our two options under that circumstance are either we get faux Genesis gameplay that does nothing but piss hardcores and cynics off because some element of it is wrong and thus it inevitably pales in comparison to the overstated perfection of a 17-year old game or, considering nothing else they tried has worked, a completely new or off-shoot style that ends up in the same situation as Daytime gameplay and still misses a lot of the checkpoints on cynics' list needed for the ultimate 3D Sonic game. I'm not about to put my eggs in either basket, not when Daytime style is the most progress they've made in years and not when it's a perfectly good foundation to work off of in the first place. No. Just no.

[Blue Blood]

Yeah this summed it up pretty well, even if Sega do decide to change to a new style, people are still going to hate it because everyone has their own interpretation of the perfect Sonic game, that will never be realized and frankly Sega have shuffled enough styles for the past 10 years, and I'd rather not go through another ten years of switching styles because Sega are trying to appeal to a fanbase than can never get its shit together, and decide on something...

[Nepenthe]

There's no reason at all that a style change would result in a bad game. They just need something else that isn't exactly the same with a new lick of paint.

We could get something that's more interesting if we merely expanded upon level design concepts, tinkered with the boost, explored different maneuvers' utility...or hell, added that damn yellow fox to the mix for once.

How we've seen Daytime Gameplay thus far isn't the end-all be-all of the style. Once again, it's the only way they're doing it because it debuted to critical acclaim and subsequently was the basis for the first 3D Sonic game in years that wasn't a practical embarrassment. What were people saying for the longest? "Don't fix what isn't broke?" And you want them to throw it away completely and sail off into uncharted waters and pray it all turns out okay?

[Blue Blood]

We could get something that's more interesting if we merely expanded upon level design concepts, tinkered with the boost, explored different maneuvers' utility...or hell, added that damn yellow fox to the mix for once.

How we've seen Daytime Gameplay thus far isn't the end-all be-all of the style. Once again, it's the only way they're doing it because it debuted to critical acclaim and subsequently was the basis for the first 3D Sonic game in years that wasn't a practical embarrassment. What were people saying for the longest? "Don't fix what isn't broke?" And you want them to throw it away completely and sail off into uncharted waters and pray it all turns out okay?

It may not be broken, but it's not good. They need to scrap the bulk of what makes the Unleashed gameplay what it is because there genuinely isn't a lot that can be done with it.

[Scar]

All the really need to improve on is the level design. The moveset can just be edited. Remove boost, add spindash/rolling etc. That and lower the acceleration a tad but still allow Sonic to reach really high speeds (just needs to take a long time to get there).

Other than that, mechanically Generations Modern is pretty much already there. Its like I said, its the level design that really needs the work, nothing else.

[BlazingTales]

I like it the Unleashed formula. A lot. It's fun. I don't care if the thrills it induces are supposedly "cheap", because at the end of the day, they are still thrills. It's fun. I like games that are fun.

That said, I know that the Unleashed formula is far from perfect. It has certainly shown it has a ton of potential, though. Scrapping all of that potential isn't going to help the series develop. Rather than taking the Unleashed formula and simply tweaking it, evolve it. It could learn something from both the Adventure and Mega Drive games, and still offer a unique take on Sonic gameplay. Perhaps after a few years, we'll have the Sonic series develop into a new gameplay formula. But take things one step at a time until we get there, there's no need to scrap progress.

[Robogaman]

I prefer The Unleashed style over the old adventure style. Not to say that the old style was bad or anything.

[ChikaBoing]

The Problem is that for the most part the Graphics and Backgrounds are the best thing about it. In the Genesis and Adventure 1 Days, Game Design was more or less equally good to the Visual Aspects.

[Koopalmier]

Love the Unleashed gameplay.

Love the Adventure gameplay.

To please everyone, I think they should make a Sonic game with only two kinds of gameplay:

- Sonic Unleashed Day gameplay

- Sonic Adventure Sonic gameplay

That way, they have their "alternate gameplay" thing without adding something fans may not like (the Werehog ?), and it's all good (also, make the 2D sections of the Unleashed gameplay closer to the classics. No pinball physics, but more platforming. Look at Colors).

[Blue Blood]

All the really need to improve on is the level design. The moveset can just be edited. Remove boost, add spindash/rolling etc. That and lower the acceleration a tad but still allow Sonic to reach really high speeds (just needs to take a long time to get there).

Other than that, mechanically Generations Modern is pretty much already there. Its like I said, its the level design that really needs the work, nothing else.

If you remove the boost and improve the level design (i.e. approach it differently) you've essentially scrapped all that makes the Unleashed style what it is.

To please everyone, I think they should make a Sonic game with only two kinds of gameplay:

- Sonic Unleashed Day gameplay

- Sonic Adventure Sonic gameplay

Executed horrendously mind, '06 did this to a certain extent. Wave Ocean- The Water's Edge played like a bad SA1 and then The Inlet was like a horribly unrefined Unleashed.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Scar]

If you remove the boost and improve the level design (i.e. approach it differently) you've essentially scrapped all that makes the Unleashed style what it is.

Which supports the idea that "The Unleashed Formula", isn't really a formula. Its an add-on.

It is essentially SA2, but with a boost button (Before you bitch, SA2, for the most part, was just as linear as as Unleashed.

[Blue Blood]

Which supports the idea that "The Unleashed Formula", isn't really a formula. Its an add-on.

It is essentially SA2, but with a boost button (Before you bitch, SA2, for the most part, was just as linear as as Unleashed.

SA2 was straight-forward like Unleashed, but not monotonous. There was more variation in all aspects of the level design.