Shadow and Rouge...

[Rally the Cheetah]

In my years of surfing the net for info on Sonic games, and media and such one thing became very clear; many sites consider Sonic a "kiddie" game series. In many ways this is true, after all all the big title games I can think of are rated E. However as a fan I know the franchise has gotten a bit darker with their stories. There's a Military called G.U.N,. there's the "monster of the week", there are lots of guns, destroyed cities, etc. Yet one day back about 3 or 4 years ago I remember reading a post on one of the Sonic forums I visited. It mentioned the characters Shadow and Rouge and how they were bringing about adult themes in the game and were likely designed just for that purpose alone. Looking at the characters now, I'm starting to wonder if it's true.

First off Shadow: what can we say about him? Well he's violent there's no denying that. After all the whole "I'm a badazz that rides motorcycles and blows things up" was flung at us again and again in his game . Also he uses guns of all things. Why? He doesn't need them. The only real reason is it's because it makes him look like more of a renegade. Also he's one of those troubled characters, you know, the ones with a dark background and such. They're pretty common in animes so it's not really a surprise Shadow's exists in the first place. Still, was that his purpose all along? To make the series more edgy? Also was he the start of it all? Well it's hard to say for sure. There was Nack/ Fang. He used a gun. However it was a popgun and therefore doesn't really compare to what Shadow used. Then we can get into the discussion, well Shadow was supposed to die at the end of SA2 and all that so he couldn't have been intended to be the badass of the series. But he didn't die, they brought him back... why. Because fans liked him, yes that's true but also perhaps because he they wanted him to be the badass of the series, to bring a more adult violence to the table. He can get away with a degree of violence that the other characters can't because its just the way he is.

Next up there's Rouge. Now here's a character that really pushes the boundaries when it comes to sex appeal. For a 17 year old she's very well endowed and certainly knows it. In fact I'm sure you all recall 4kid's editing job in Sonic X with her cleavage . Also in SA2 she was very... bouncy, to say the least. Why? Well lets look at anime again. How many animes have well busted girls?... A lot. Also look at her from a more cliched side, she's a secret agent. In all the spy movies I've ever seen secret agent women are, well, sexy or are at least meant to to be seen that way. But was that her purpose? To be sexy? Well lets see, she owns a club in a place called Night Babylon.... Hmm.

So what's your guys' opinion? Where these characters designed to bring a more adult themes into the series or did they just end up becoming that way? Or perhaps there are other characters you feel brought about the change.

[Kuzu]

There's no denying that the introduction of Shadow & Rouge we're the start of Sonic Team's decent into nonsense with grimdark.

I'm pretty sure ST wanted to experiment and see how the series fared when it was a bit more mature, it was successful to an extent, Sa2 was pretty mature for a Sonic game without losing itself....then they wanted to experiment again...and again, and well we all know how that turned out.

But yes, Shadow & Rouge were created with older audiences in mind, hence why they were promoted the way they were back when Sa2 was first released.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Shadic93

[Lightspines]

A few years ago I was playing Sonic Unleashed, and a friend asked "Is Shadow in this?", I replied with "No", and he said "Then it's crap".

I think these characters were designed to reach a larger audience, which seems to be true.

[Kuzu]

I noticed to that with the exception of Free Riders, and Heroes, most games that involve Shadow & Rouge tend to be a bit darker than normal.

[Diogenes]

Shadow and Rouge are definitely artifacts of Sonic Team's attempt to make Sonic darker and more serious. Pretty much every character is meant to fit the tone of the game they were introduced in, and SA2 was one of the darker and more serious games in the series.

[Chibinuva]

I think that is most likely the case. SA2 was a darker game, and helped promote them. Also, many people (my self included,) like playing as a bad-ass, motorcycle-riding hedgehog. Also, Rouge has been kind of a sex-symbol, given that had to actually make her less so for the American version of sonic x, and it is like a lot of other anime. But even so, given the amount of violence in the games I don't think they're kiddy at all, but Shadow and Rouge help emphasize that point. BTW, the Sonic games are rated E (aside from SaTH, '06, and Unleashed,) and most games these days are rated M not E.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

...Shadow is fifteen? Rouge is only seventeen?!

Who writes this and where do they live?!

[Kuzu]

...Shadow is fifteen? Rouge is only seventeen?!

Who writes this and where do they live?!

Shadow is physically 15, he's actually around 50 or so, as for Rouge....its Japan, and I thought she was 18?

Edited August 31, 2011 by Shadic93

[Diogenes]

...Shadow is fifteen? Rouge is only seventeen?!

Who writes this and where do they live?!

According to the rules of anime aging, Rouge is basically middle-aged.

[Kuzu]

According to the rules of anime aging, Rouge is basically middle-aged.

Oh Japan, you and your fetishes.

[Rally the Cheetah]

Shadow is physically 15, he's actually around 50 or so, as for Rouge....its Japan, and I thought she was 18?

My bad I guess she is 18. I remember hearing somewhere that they'd changed her age to 17 but Sonic channel says she's 18 so I guess she's 18. Personally I think that's a little better but still.

What I've wondered is when the growth spurt takes place. If we use Vanilla as a ref to an adult it's clear the anthros get taller later in life. When though seems up in the air. Sadly there's no real clear age for Vanilla but I'm guessing she's late 20s to early 30s. Still compare Rouge to her... Yeah poor Vanilla doesn't come close .

Anyhow everyone seems to agree Shadow and Rouge are in it to make games more mature. For the sake of continuing discussion lets explore whether you think this is a good thing or bad. Also should SEGA introduce other "edgy" characters or are Shadow and Rouge enough?

Personally I feel franchise has enough characters as it is and so adding another "edgy" character would be overkill. As it is Sonic Teams lacks the subtlety needed to pull off a "bad boy" image for Shadow anyway. Shadow's game was an utter joke in terms of dialogue. I cringed when I heard the "taking candy from a baby" line. Then there were all the "damn its"... Seriously, someone needed to get a bar of soap and wash that hedgehog's mouth out. Enough already, we get it! You can swear, big hoo-ha!

As for Rouge strutting her stuff, well, surprisingly I haven't had much of a problem with it. Yeah she's a flirt but she really didn't rub it in your face, least not in the way Shadow paraded around. Still there's no doubt she is there for sex appeal and I'm still waiting for the day that one of the characters accidentally face plants into her chest. It happens often enough in anime, I fear it may only be a matter of time till we see it happen in the series. Once I wouldn't mind, heck I'd lol till my gut hurt, but knowing the trend....

[Kuzu]

ITs ironic don't ya think, Shadow's badassery was shoved in our faces, but he's way more known while Rouge's sex appeal is subtle and she's barely acknowledged compared to Shadow, go figure.

Anyway, I really don't think adding edgy characters is needed to change the tone of a series, if the writer is good enough the change can feel natural and well developed rather than forced and out of nowhere, Shadow & Rouge just made the transition easier, but yeah those two are enough we don't need anymore.

[Chaos Walker]

To me Sonic Adventure 2 will always hold a special place with me for having the best story of all the Sonic games, and I really think Shadow was a part of that. I just wish Shadow had some excuse to be a villain again. Knuckles makes a good ally so long as he goes back to his emerald at the end of the day, but with Shadow at the most I want temporary truces when the universe rips a new one in it's previous new one, which is now the old one, and needs 3 sets of chaos emeralds to fix.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[Kuzu]

To me Sonic Adventure 2 will always hold a special place with me for having the best story of all the Sonic games, and I really think Shadow was a part of that. I just wish Shadow had some excuse to be a villain again. Knuckles makes a good ally so long as he goes back to his emerald at the end of the day, but with Shadow at the most I want temporary truces when the universe rips a new one in it's previous new one, which is now the old one, and needs 3 sets of chaos emeralds to fix.

Isn't that how it is now? i mean its not like Shadow joins Sonic's merry bunch like Knuckles does even after becoming good.

I never saw a point in Shadow being a villain, even in Sa2 where he was a villain, he was doing it on the whim of his best friend who died in front him, and quickly changed his mind when he figured out what she really wanted; Other than that, he doesn't really have any motives that could be labeled evil and giving him one would completely derail his entire character arc.

Now if Shadow opposes Sonic here and there then I wouldn't mind, but not outright evil.

[Ferno]

Shadow and Rouge should take on a Jessie and James type role. :v

>_>

....

ok i'll shut up

[Scar]

Shadow and Rouge should take on a Jessie and James type role. :v

>_>

....

ok i'll shut up

It looks like Team Dark is blasting off again...................................................

[Sparky]

Weird how we always say 'Shadow and Rouge'. Never just Rouge. Same with Silver and Blaze. When we see Rouge, Shadows not far behind.

[HUNTER297]

Weird how we always say 'Shadow and Rouge'. Never just Rouge. Same with Silver and Blaze. When we see Rouge, Shadows not far behind.

Noticed that too. I think its like with Tails and Sonic. I mean every powerfull char. Has got partner.

On topic. They were designed to be interesting villians to play in SA2.

Point of SA2 was that you could "Save The World or Counquer It" and tell me would you like to play as avreage badnik or Metal or brand new char with reason and interesting backstory.

Other than that I like them. They brought much into series. I think they should be used in later games.

Edited August 31, 2011 by HUNTER297

[Chibinuva]

Weird how we always say 'Shadow and Rouge'. Never just Rouge. Same with Silver and Blaze. When we see Rouge, Shadows not far behind.

Well Silver and Blaze are friends, as are Rouge and Shadow (or associates more, since Shadow apparently lacks any friends.) Oh, five bucks says that Knuckles is the one who bumps into Rouge "on accident."

edit: Ninja'd

Edited August 31, 2011 by Chibinuva

[Anarnee]

I think I saw someone up there mention something about not needing new characters to make the story darker.

I mean the first Sonic Adventure was a great game, and the story wasn't all Fairies and Pixie dust. I mean, the ending is the world at apocalyse-esque point and heck, Gamma pretty much died.

I things really got dark in ShtH, it makes me sad that, that would be their only purpose. I like them very much.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Anarnee

[Your Vest Friend]

I think I saw someone up there mention something about not needing new characters to make the story darker.

I mean the first Sonic Adventure was a great game, and the story wasn't all Fairies and Pixie dust. I mean, the ending is the world at apocalyse-esque point and heck, Gamma pretty much died.

I things really got dark in ShtH, it makes same d that that would be their only purpose. I like them very much.

[Anarnee]

*foot in mouth* fail. Didn't think about that. Thank you for pointing out my stupidity. OTL

Though in the case of Gamma since he was made by Eggman, I feel a little less guilty about that.

However I still feel a little differently about it.

In the cast of SA1 though everything revolved around the back story of characters that had already been in the series for a while, the new characters were made only to support them. In Shadow and Rouge's case, their story is vaguely related to the heroes, and more central to Shadow, and the story that would unfold in future games.

So, I think its a little different in that Gamma, Tikal, Chaos etc, were made just to darken the plot, and Shadow and Rouge were made to give the plot somewhere to go and it just happened to be darker? Does that make sense? I don't think it does, because in some round about way it can be flipped, because maybe initially Shadow and Rouge were not going to return but due to popularity were brought back.

I don't know. I'm just trying to redeem myself. Can't really know what the creators were trying to do.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Anarnee

[Kuzu]

Shadow and Rouge should take on a Jessie and James type role. :v

>_>

....

ok i'll shut up

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A few years ago I was playing Sonic Unleashed, and a friend asked "Is Shadow in this?", I replied with "No", and he said "Then it's crap".

[batson]

But yes, Shadow & Rouge were created with older audiences in mind,

How very ironic then that at least Shadow was originally mostly popular with the younger part of the fanbase. Not that i think it really matered to Sega though, even if this was the complete opposite of the original intention with the character, since any consumer is a good consumer.