Miles Edgeworth: Ace Attorney Investigations

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

So basically, a game that's been out for three weeks and was barely sold in store (Okamiden) has sold more than a game that's been out for over a year (AAI). Bloody hell, it really must have tanked big time.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Velotix Lexovetikan

[Carbo]

Blame the pirates, not CAPCOM.

I don't see how pirates can be more responsible when a company albeit understandably puts very little priority in a game marketed for a largely niche audience. This is scapegoating if I've seen it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Blame the pirates, not CAPCOM.

[PSI Wind]

I don't see how pirates can be more responsible when a company albeit understandably puts very little priority in a game marketed for a largely niche audience. This is scapegoating if I've seen it.

[Carbo]

*ahem*

Numbers like that mean jackshit since they can't tell whether or not people who downloaded actually bought it/downloaded it multiple times/etc.

Oh and;

The only relevance this number could possibly have to this discussion is that if it were low enough it might demonstrate that Capcom is right and not enough people are actually interested in the game to bring it over.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Carbo

[Ekaje]

*ahem*

[Conando]

Not to be a dick, but I was kind of getting bored of the AA series anyway. I enjoyed Ghost Trick A LOT more than the last 2 Ace Attorney games.

[Ekaje]

Not to be a dick, but I was kind of getting bored of the AA series anyway. I enjoyed Ghost Trick A LOT more than the last 2 Ace Attorney games.

While I do hope to play AAI2 in some form, I have to agree with this. The series is wearing thin, especially with some of the weight of being a franchise (Capcom forcing Phoenix into AJ, all of the pointless cameos in AAI), and while I would like an AJ game where Apollo isn't completely overshadowed by Phoenix, I honestly wouldn't mind the series ending for good.

Oh, and speaking of Ghost Trick, if you like AA and have not gotten a copy of Ghost Trick, DO IT.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Ekaje

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

If AAI2 is the last entry in the franchise, I would actually be OK with that. The key plot points are all wrapped up, and the AJ cliffhanger is a Generic Japanese Open-Ended Fanonbait Ending, so we can forget about that too.

What bothers me is simply that we're denied an entry in the franchise seemingly at the eleventh hour.

[Mega]

Is localization really that expensive, though? It's a text-only game, so it could be a lot worse...

[-Mark-]

Actually, that pretty much makes localisation more expensive. I mean, think back to games like the classic Sonic titles; for them, 'localisation' basically meant converting it into the necessary regional TV format and releasing it there. The more text there is, the more work needs to be done (i.e. translation etc) to make it suitable for a foreign audience.

[TheGerkuman]

It's important to note that the VP clarified that they're treating AAI as it's own series, basing it's decisions on previous form.

In other words, if GS5 is ever announced, they'll probably localise it. While not having AAI2 is a bitter pill, at least the franchise is still going.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Thing is though, the decision to not bring investigations to the west will more or less kill everything thats in it.

These games do share a lot of characters, it's going to be a bit of a head scratch moment if suddenly a 'new' character appears but everyone knows who they are.

[Mega]

Actually, that pretty much makes localisation more expensive. I mean, think back to games like the classic Sonic titles; for them, 'localisation' basically meant converting it into the necessary regional TV format and releasing it there. The more text there is, the more work needs to be done (i.e. translation etc) to make it suitable for a foreign audience.

Point, but I mostly meant in comparison to like... a voice acted game.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Minor update:

First of all, thanks Tommy Oliver for your post above. Indeed I hadn't expected that an honest, straight forward answer to a fan's question on a stream or here that could avert uncertainty for months or years would have created quite the outrage among a few folks that it has. I'll have to keep that in mind for the future when I consider giving a straight answer.

Secondly, Japan is the #1 territory for AA. Sales there continue to be solid which is why it was released there and why it is always the lead territory. Over the years we have had several titles (Basara comes to mind though there are others) released only in Japan because that market can sustain them all by themselves and the costs of bringing them to market in the West are higher than the revenue opportunity.

It's not totally clear in the P&L assumptions above, but it looks like you're asking us to charge Japanese customers more... or alternatively, you're equating Western sales of AA to those of Japan and making sales assumptions from there. In case one (charging the Japanese more), the sales in Japan have no bearing on the sales opportunity in the West (they don't need to localize for Japan as that's the original release). To justify the localization and local marketing costs, sales forecasts need to be high enough to cover those costs on their own. Charging Japanese consumers more doesn't justify the expense. In case 2 (equating Western sales to Japan) I can't get into details but that's not accurate.

In the sales and P&L assumptions above, what you also neglect is the cost of goods of the product (what it actually costs to produce cartridges, packaging, manuals, with royalties due to Nintendo in this case), testing costs, and marketing expenses, sales commissions, freight and overhead. There are other costs neglected but they're smaller individually so I won't get into them. In short, what you think we're recouping per unit, isn't actually what we're recouping.

And to those saying "localization costs can't be that much", in a game like AA, localization is everything when it comes to overseas perception of quality. A quick and dirty literal translation doesn't get you very far. It doesn't help you capture the character's quirks, help you understand the humor or references when there aren't appropriate "direct" translations. Our loc team in Japan has continually done a fantastic job on these products which is part of the reason why you love them so much. There is no shortcut to be had there.

Lastly, the dynamics at retail for NDS have changed a lot over the past 12 months and even more since the introduction of the 3DS.

I'll be having some conversations tomorrow with our roadmap planning team on this topic given the feedback here. I have a few ideas. We'll see what happens.

In any event, please keep the conversation civil. I understand the disappointment and I'm happy to share how the market operates within reasonable ranges but I could do without the "sky is falling" hyperbole. There may be other solutions.

So we've gone from "nope" to "oh shit, people do care, I need to cover my ass quick".

Still, taken at face value without a cynical bent, it looks like the initial uproar has at least hit home that this isn't over yet.

[Covskin]

Either way, at the end of the day, if the games aren't selling enough to make a profit, why would they want to port over a niche title for a now out-of-date system?

Let's look at Europe in particular. That'll need even further translation than the States, and considering we didn't get Trials and Tribulations until after Apollo Justice, I'm guessing the sales figures aren't there in Europe either.

I'm still bitterly, bitterly disappointed though. I think the best we can hope for is a limited-release, and even that isn't a particularly desireable option.

This makes me worry even more for the Layton crossover to be honest. Sure, Layton is a license to print money in the West, but we're already a couple of games behind Japan, and Phoenix Wright clearly has a small audience. The majority of Professor Layton's casual audience won't be aware of a new game until it hits the shop shelves, so probably don't know a crossover is in the works. It might just be a case of not bothering to localise and allowing the West to catch up on the main series.

[Carbo]

Ace Attorney as a franchise never sold badly, even though it catered only for a niche audience. The issue here lies within the fact that AAI is probably the one of the worst handled efforts in Capcom localization history alongside Okamiden, and the localization became largely exclusive since it was handled shut and internally. The marketing and exposure was also pretty weak. It's no question the game generally didn't go down well, Capcom didn't put enough trust into the title, which is the biggest reason why it fared the way it did and also why it's reasonable to expect a localization of the sequel to not sell if one is to expect that history will repeat itself.

This makes me worry even more for the Layton crossover to be honest. Sure, Layton is a license to print money in the West, but we're already a couple of games behind Japan, and Phoenix Wright clearly has a small audience. The majority of Professor Layton's casual audience won't be aware of a new game until it hits the shop shelves, so probably don't know a crossover is in the works. It might just be a case of not bothering to localise and allowing the West to catch up on the main series.

Level-5 is developing this game, not Capcom. I think it's safe to say that their division would be non-plussed about the notion that recent developments of Ace Attorney would tarnish the possibility of their games making their way stateside sooner or later, regardless of how many games they have to catch up with.

Games for DS will keep on being developed for some time. The interest will tilt towards the 3DS, yes, but it won't hinder pre-existing projects or developments, and there's only one Layton game left to be released for the DS over here.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Carbo

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Layton vs AA is more-or-less guaranteed. Layton actually sells better in Europe than anywhere else in the world, so on his good rep alone the game will be released.

And will probably get more attention directed at AA in the process.

[Sean]

I have enough cynicism to theorize that Layton vs. Ace Attorney won't get localized precisely because it has Ace Attorney, if because Level-5 has other games to localize and it's likely very low priority.

[Carbo]

Thinking of localization at this point is pretty silly when we barely know anything about the game apart of what it's supposed to be about. I think it's safe to say that if it gets localized it will definitely go by the standard timeframes both series take to get to the rest of the world, and having Layton alone gives this game the high ground as I can't think of how Ace Attorney would act as a sort of repellent, plus Layton is their best selling franchise. By the time it's out there will more than likely be much space available for them to work on it, and the fact that it's a crossover almost automatically shoots up its need of marketing and effort.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Carbo

[TheGerkuman]

Level-5 has other games

And none of them are nearly as big selling as Professor Layton.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Source

Guys, to be clear, internal conversations are ongoing and I've made a couple proposals that are being debated but to set expectations, even if something were to happen on any platform, it would be months before we'd announce anything as there's nothing in development currently (as previously stated).

In short, if you ask every couple days what the status is, my answer is unfortunately still going to be "no news to print" until hopefully someday that there is.

I do appreciate the passion but patience is definitely going to be a virtue here.

If we hear anything now, it'll be towards the end of the year and the game won't show up until at least 2012.

Still, it's better than being permanently shelved.