Super Sonic Racing

[Chaos Walker]

I remember it well. Hearing the concept of Sonic R, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Grab a bunch of fast characters with unique abilities, and have them race! It had been done before as a 2D extra in other games, but now it was going to be a full fledged 3D Sonic racing experience.

Not the worst game in the world. Definetly not the best either.

I feel like Sonic isn't made for party/multiplayer games, except maybe in the realm of racing. Looking at it, Sonic Riders isn't such a bad idea. Sure Sonic could do that on foot, and does, but it still made for a decent game with some a decent sequels. But I can't help but feel that something is wrong. Being on a board is all right if that's what works, but shouldn't Sonic be the king of platformer characters doing racing games? Not that plumber dude?

I can't imagine this hasn't been said before, but I'll cross my fingers and hope that nobody has made a topic on it recently: Using the Unleashed/Colors/Generations engine as a base, could Sonic have a decent, or even very good racing game? If so, how would that play out? If not, what holds it back, and what would need to be changed?

[Soniman]

So the concept of racing in vehicles is only for Mario then?

[Diogenes]

So the concept of racing in vehicles is only for Mario then?

[Teeks]

I think All-Stars Racing was the best one yet. Sonic Riders is bad IMO. I love Sonic R but it's a really bad game, I just did a review of it. It didn't age well at all.

However, I think R is the best in terms of concept. Because it makes sense. Sonic and friends are really fast, so racing on foot would only come natural. I don't have a problem with Sonic racing in a car like a lot of people do. He has to race fairly with others, after all. But I have always wondered why they didn't go back to the concept of Sonic R. Almost every Sonic character is capable of running really fast and those that don't have enough tricks in their arsenal to make the game worthwhile to use them. Hell, even Dr. Eggman can run pretty darn fast. Just as fast as Sonic, even. So I think another Sonic R style game would be awesome.

[Soniman]

No, but if you can run faster than a car, why bother with one?

[Diogenes]

...no? You could program Sonic and a car exactly the same, if you wanted.

[Rusty Spy]

can't imagine this hasn't been said before,

[Eternal EX]

Honestly can't think of much. The idea sounds very creative to me. Only thing that I can think of that would remotely hold it back would be the willing suspension of disbelief that Amy, Big & Cream could out speed Sonic going Mach 10.

[Tori Himemiya]

Sonic R was an alright concept. It just lacking of both balance and content. While there's 5 characters and one stage to unlock it only had a bunch of characters and only 5 stages hence there's hardly content. And second Super Sonic breaks the game the second you get him. While Sonic himself is good a starter he's still fast enough until SS comes into the picture.

But these problems are the main reason Sonic R hasn't been a great Sonic game and sadly if you were to think about it Sega has been modeling their own Sonic racing games on it.

For example Sonic Riders, freaking awesome concept I'll admit, drives itself into deep into the ground. While it does have a shit ton of customization which is a plus, the problem is that even though it does have 15 tracks most of them are really no more than a recolor of the last which is rather disappointing. Not to mention it has pretty bad controls especially for the beginner.

But what I'm really getting at is that Sonic R just needs more things to do. If it done that I would believe its a good game for once.

[Nitwit_Speed]

Sonic Unleashed's gameplay is, actually, set up to be a phenominal racing game. Just make the stages a cross between SRB2's circuit courses and the normal Unleashed stages and your set, although the problem of Big beating Sonic still excists. I suppose we could argue that Sonic isn't even trying until he cuts it really close to rocket speeds, like in the OVA when Sonic and Tails blast through the field and Sonic looks prime whilest Tails is drenched in sweat and on all fours.

[Chaos Walker]

I see alot of people complain about things like "Well how does X keep up with Sonic?"

I'll admit, that's a problem. I suppose characters could be sped up to match like in Advance3 or Heroes, but another solution would be the Speed/Fly/Power route. If the tracks have any level of platforming or obstacles, then the ability to fly over things or break through stuff would really come in handy. And to be honest, if they didn't have that stuff I'd be disapointed. Multiplayer games are generaly meant for parties or just general fun, and a little deviation from the basic racing formula really helps mix things up.

Ok Big needs a scooter. There's no getting around that.

[Diogenes]

If you cut or severely nerf the boost, it wouldn't be a problem. And it'd probably be a better game for it.

[Xenos]

If you cut or severely nerf the boost, it wouldn't be a problem. And it'd probably be a better game for it.

I don't know how the absence of the boost determines the quality of an entire game.

[Diogenes]

You don't understand how an aspect of the game can affect it? What do you think causes the quality of a game, if not the sum of its parts and their interactions?

But seriously. The higher the speeds, the bigger the gap a mistake causes. Considering the difference in speed between boosting and not, running out of boost energy could completely wreck your chances. Plus if the game's no longer guiding you along as Unleashed does, it's going to involve a lot more smashing into walls than it should.

[Place]

Why not just play the 2 Player Race mode from Adventure 2?

That I think, would be the best approach to a new Sonic Racing game.

[Xenos]

You don't understand how an aspect of the game can affect it? What do you think causes the quality of a game, if not the sum of its parts and their interactions?

But seriously. The higher the speeds, the bigger the gap a mistake causes. Considering the difference in speed between boosting and not, running out of boost energy could completely wreck your chances. Plus if the game's no longer guiding you along as Unleashed does, it's going to involve a lot more smashing into walls than it should.

I meant that towards the last thing you said, "It'd probably be a better game for it." It sounded like you were saying because the boost is gone, the game will magically be better. :V

Regarding races with other characters, I'd like it if they took the heroes approach where there are certain hidden paths where only certain racers can enter/maneuver in well. Whereas other characters outside of that Class either have a Slim to none chance of taking the now revealed path so they can follow the Class that cleared it. This could either lead in a quick shortcut, a difficult place for your character to get through, or no chance that your character can pass that area. This would mean that every player would have to rely on split-second decisions in deciding which path to take, and how to get through it in a unique way as to accommodate your characters class.

(Ex: Sonic, Shadow, and Blaze can take the trail where the boost is needed to get maximum speed through this area, you must also use a boosting drift to pass wide corners without losing speed. This is something that's hard for other characters outside this class to do, but is possible. Giving them the chance --While slim-- to follow behind the Speedy characters, as they clear the way with the drift and boost. Or: They can take their designated hidden path, etc.)

Might be a bit hard to understand, but this way, every character can keep their special abilities, while also keeping it a bit more balanced, as every character has a Chance to take every path, depending on your judgement of whether or not it is the best choice chosen for you.

[Chibinuva]

I see alot of people complain about things like "Well how does X keep up with Sonic?"

I'll admit, that's a problem. I suppose characters could be sped up to match like in Advance3 or Heroes, but another solution would be the Speed/Fly/Power route. If the tracks have any level of platforming or obstacles, then the ability to fly over things or break through stuff would really come in handy. And to be honest, if they didn't have that stuff I'd be disappointed. Multiplayer games are generaly meant for parties or just general fun, and a little deviation from the basic racing formula really helps mix things up.

Ok Big needs a scooter. There's no getting around that.

You mean like multiplayer of Rush how Sonic was faster, but Blaze could jump higher to reach alternate routes? Yeah, something like that could work. However, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Rivals yet, since it uses a similar concept to Sonic R (is it really that bad to where it's not worth mentioning.) But yeah, something like the Shadow/Sonic multiplayer of SA2 could work nicely, though I don't mind vehicles or boards (SR0Z is freaking awesome. Now if only Free Riders had gravity manipulation. ) Of course, I have yet to play R, Rivals, or SA2, so you can kinda ignore me for now.

[Chaos Walker]

But seriously. The higher the speeds, the bigger the gap a mistake causes. Considering the difference in speed between boosting and not, running out of boost energy could completely wreck your chances.

I was thinking the same thing myself. Leaving out the boost makes the race more fair. Or perhaps it could be handled mario kart style where you are sparingly given powers to use as you run through the track.

In terms of characters, I'm thinking at least 6 of each class for a total of 18. Of course there are plenty of speed characters. The problem is finding enough fly and powers to fill in the gaps. Perhaps they could dip back into the closet for the likes of E-102 Gamma, and Egg Robo.

For the engine, Sonic Unleashed>Generations really is perfect for racing. It's emphasis on speed over platforming makes it look almost as though it was made for this. Just make the boost a power up like the Mario Kart mushroom and that problem is mostly solved. After that it comes down to differentiating characters by stats and abilities. I'm certain every character would be able to stomp, drift, side step, etc as these moves are neceseties for high speed handling.

Finally are the tracks. Some 14-24 levels split between the moderns and classics would do very nicely. There probably would be no 2D switching as that might disrupt the racing experience. The tracks would also need some small degree of platforming to give slower characters a fighting chance, as well as just adding that "sonic aspect" to the racing formula. There is one question left unanswered: Laps or goal ring? Sonic adventure 2 has been cited quite often as a great example of what Sonic racing should be like, but there is only one problem. Laps means longer races, as well as a more authentic racing experience, where as goal rings mean either shorter tracks or less tracks over all but a more authentic Sonic experience. But in this case I really think that the racing experience is what we are going for, otherwise it would be Sonic Unleashed with friends.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[Chibinuva]

I was thinking the same thing myself. Leaving out the boost makes the race more fair. Or perhaps it could be handled mario kart style where you are sparingly given powers to use as you run through the track.

In terms of characters, I'm thinking at least 6 of each class for a total of 18. Of course there are plenty of speed characters. The problem is finding enough fly and powers to fill in the gaps. Perhaps they could dip back into the closet for the likes of E-102 Gamma, and Egg Robo.

For the engine, Sonic Unleashed>Generations really is perfect for racing. It's emphasis on speed over platforming makes it look almost as though it was made for this. Just make the boost a power up like the Mario Kart mushroom and that problem is mostly solved. After that it comes down to differentiating characters by stats and abilities. I'm certain every character would be able to stomp, drift, side step, etc as these moves are neceseties for high speed handling.

Finally are the tracks. Some 14-24 levels split between the moderns and classics would do very nicely. There probably would be no 2D switching as that might disrupt the racing experience. The tracks would also need some small degree of platforming to give slower characters a fighting chance, as well as just adding that "sonic aspect" to the racing formula. There is one question left unanswered: Laps or goal ring? Sonic adventure 2 has been cited quite often as a great example of what Sonic racing should be like, but there is only one problem. Laps means longer races, as well as a more authentic racing experience, where as goal rings mean either shorter tracks or less tracks over all but a more authentic Sonic experience. But in this case I really think that the racing experience is what we are going for, otherwise it would be Sonic Unleashed with friends.

Eh, I don't know about laps per say, but they could either make it where there are checkpoints in the level that act as laps (like in Generations/Unleashed,) or they could do pure laps, with the finish line being like a checkpoint for most of the laps, and as a goal ring for the final act.

[Chaos Walker]

Eh, I don't know about laps per say, but they could either make it where there are checkpoints in the level that act as laps (like in Generations/Unleashed,) or they could do pure laps, with the finish line being like a checkpoint for most of the laps, and as a goal ring for the final act.

[ThatGuyJay]

Please no checkpoints like in SA2 or Heroes cause one of the annoying things people did when I was so far ahead of them is they would die whenever I hit a checkpoint. I ended up avoiding checkpoints eventually but that would backfire everytime I actually died and I would have to start all the way back to the beginning trying to keep up.

Edited September 29, 2011 by ThatGuy

[Chaos Walker]

Please no checkpoints like in SA2 or Heroes cause one of the annoying things people did when I was so far ahead of them is they would die whenever I hit a checkpoint. I ended up avoiding checkpoints eventually but that would backfire everytime I actually died and I would have to start all the way back to the beginning trying to keep up.

[Chibinuva]

Please no checkpoints like in SA2 or Heroes cause one of the annoying things people did when I was so far ahead of them is they would die whenever I hit a checkpoint. I ended up avoiding checkpoints eventually but that would backfire everytime I actually died and I would have to start all the way back to the beginning trying to keep up.

That was one of the few things I hated in the 06 multiplayer (that and accidentally grabbing your companion when playing as Silver.) It should work if, as suggested above, the players have separate checkpoints. Either that, or it's just laps like any racing games with invisible checkpoints that are separate for each person. And like I said, they could have something like a starpost or checkpoint (the gates used in SA1/2/06/Unleashed) at the end of each lap, with a goal ring at the end of the race.

[Chaos Walker]

That was one of the few things I hated in the 06 multiplayer (that and accidentally grabbing your companion when playing as Silver.) It should work if, as suggested above, the players have separate checkpoints. Either that, or it's just laps like any racing games with invisible checkpoints that are separate for each person. And like I said, they could have something like a starpost or checkpoint (the gates used in SA1/2/06/Unleashed) at the end of each lap, with a goal ring at the end of the race.

Yeah, I really think the laps with checkpoint gates is the way to go.

Lets see if we can move this topic to something else, as I seriously doubt anyone wants to argue that the generations engine is not suited to a racing game. (unless anybody wants to prove me wrong)

How about the character line up? Who would you choose? Is speed/power/fly the way to go? If not, do we simply leave out the likes of slower characters?

I think Speed/Fly/Power fixes the problem of the fastest winning at everything. There are plenty of speed characters to choose from:

Speed-Sonic, Amy, Shadow, Blaze, Metal Sonic, and Espio, Jet?

After that, it's not so certain:

Fly-Tails, Cream, Rouge, Silver, Charmy?, Egg Robo?, Wave?

Power-Knuckles, Big (on a scooter?), Omega, Vector, Dr. Eggman, Gamma?, Storm?

Other ideas: Fang/Nack, Tikal, Shade, Emerl/G-mel, Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, Werehog.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[Nepenthe]

Why not simply have characters that are either on foot or in vehicles? That way, you can have both a varied amount of characters and some rational sense of fair competition. You would also essentially have two classes, thus balancing the game would be a much easier process. It would also open the door for having different obstacles and paths on the track considering the amount of vehicles we've had in this series compounded with the different ways of maneuvering Sonic has at his disposal.

Orrrr you could go the cheap Rivals way, fuck what's sensible, and keep everyone on foot with roughly the same abilities, and just destroy the Heroes class set.