Lost In Translation?

[Chaos Walker]

Super Mario jumped into 3D on the N64 with amazing results. Mario had gained a new dimension and it had been handled marvelously. But something was different. Mario wasn't hitting the shrooms like he used to. No, now he had an HP meter in place of the super growth he had been so well known for. On top of that he had a new move: punch. Punching? I thought Mario jumped on stuff. WHAT WAS GOING ON? But wait, nobody asked that. The game was amazing and nobody cared.

Metroid Prime completely change the look of the series. Not only had they gained another dimension, but they darn nearly changed genres. Almost. What had once been an action adventure platformer had come out looking like a first person shooter. The platforming was not nearly as important as it had been before. Now the emphasis was on exploration, puzzle solving, and combat. But we loved it, and fans welcomed the prime games into the series with open arms.

Now let's get back to our favorite blue hero. Genesis Sonic had three defining qualities: Speed, platforming, and pinball mechanics. But sometimes in 3D, things just don't work like they used to. My question to you is: Is it possible to save everything that Sonic was about? There is alot of talk about how rolling should be re-implimented into the games, but I have to wonder: How well would it work now? We know platforming works just fine in 3D, and Sonic allready got a move to make combat simpler in the homing attack. I can certainly see Sonic using momentum to go up ramps, but rolling on hills just doesn't sound like it would be the same unless you have a bird's eye view, or a 2D cross section. It's just much harder to make. Is losing the rolling such a bad thing? Can we have perfectly good, "Sonicy" games with just speed and platforming? Or would it perhaps be so bad to save the rolling in 2D sections? I'm not saying what we have now is perfect, but perhaps we are asking for the wrong things.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[Diogenes]

Super Mario jumped into 3D on the N64 with amazing results. Mario had gained a new dimension and it had been handled marvelously. But something was different. Mario wasn't hitting the shrooms like he used to. No, now he had an HP meter in place of the super growth he had been so well known for.

They essentially split the former powerup system in two; their life-preserving ability was given to coins, and their ability-granting...ability was given to the hats. This does change the system somewhat, but it's not an abandonment of it.

On top of that he had a new move: punch. Punching? I thought Mario jumped on stuff. WHAT WAS GOING ON?

Mario could still jump on enemies, just as before.

Metroid Prime completely change the look of the series. Not only had they gained another dimension, but they darn nearly changed genres. Almost. What had once been an action adventure platformer had come out looking like a first person shooter. The platforming was not nearly as important as it had been before. Now the emphasis was on exploration, puzzle solving, and combat. But we loved it, and fans welcomed the prime games into the series with open arms.

Platforming was still an important part of the game, and it's not as if Samus didn't blast anything that looked at her funny before.

It's true that these games didn't make a perfect 1-to-1 translation of their earlier mechanics. But first, the changes they made benefited the shift into 3D. Regarding Mario, a larger health bar better suited a game with fall damage and where you could be attacked by something just barely off screen, and separating the new abilities from health better suited the more open, mission-based format of the levels. The punch attack also gave you a "2D" attack, since the jump was now 3D (that is, the punch attack is only really aimed along the two dimensions of the ground, while the jump had to be aimed on all 3). And for Metroid, the first person view greatly aided aiming (as well as immersion), and the balance of platforming and combat was massaged to better fit this. And second, it didn't change the things that were truly important to the series. Mario may have gained a punch and switched up his powerup system, but the game still focused on tight platforming, expanding on it with new kinds of jumps. And the Primes were as focused on exploration as any of the 2D games, with plenty of hidden powerups, and new abilities opening all sorts of new paths.

My question to you is: Is it possible to save everything that Sonic was about?

I believe so.

There is alot of talk about how rolling should be re-implimented into the games, but I have to wonder: How well would it work now?

Looking at stuff like Sonic Freerunner and Sonic GDK, I think it would work just fine. There aren't yet any perfectly polished examples, but obviously the mechanics are functional in 3D, and I haven't been given any reason to think they can't be used well. The biggest questions come down to the camera, I think; 2D gives you a nice clear view of what's going on, while in 3D the camera will whip and turn just as Sonic does, which can get...disorienting, to say the least. It's up to the designers to properly balance Sonic stunts against the possibility of nausea, and I think this can be done without resorting to automation.

Is losing the rolling such a bad thing? Can we have perfectly good, "Sonicy" games with just speed and platforming?

Yes and no, respectively. Speed and platforming alone do not define Sonic.

[Unknownlight]

I've seen a lot of people cite Marble Blast Ultra as a good template for rolling in a Sonic game. I haven't played it myself, though, so I don't have an opinion on it.

Though I would say that I would love to play the section starting at 2:02 in a Sonic game. That looks fun.

Edit: Oops, I put in the wrong video.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Unknownlight

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't call it a good template so much as proof that rolling mechanics can work in 3D. The collisions are too hard, for one.

[T-Min]

Behold Sonic Free Runner!

What's been done so far looks really impressive, especially regarding the physics. Personally, I don't care if true pinball mechanics are salvaged for the 3-D games, but as it stands, this is an excellent example of how it could be done.

(ohai Azukara)

Edited October 1, 2011 by T-Man

[eXtaticus]

Personally, I don't care if true pinball mechanics are salvaged for the 3-D games, but as it stands, this is an excellent example of how it could be done.

But it's far too heavy with inertia, and Sonic controls like a rocket-propelled shopping trolley on ice; a long way away from anything even remotely close to "excellent", if you ask me.

[Jacky]

your right

sonic needs to keep rolling

keep rolling

rolling

ROLLINGROLLINGLOLLINGLOLOLOLING

COME ON

WHAT

Edited October 1, 2011 by Doctor Jackstraw

[T-Min]

But it's far too heavy with inertia, and Sonic controls like a rocket-propelled shopping trolley on ice; a long way away from anything even remotely close to "excellent", if you ask me.

He said in the annotations that the controls would be improved, ya know. Besides, that's not the point. The point is that it does a great job of emulating the classics' physics.

[Scar]

He said in the annotations that the controls would be improved, ya know. Besides, that's not the point. The point is that it does a great job of emulating the classics' physics.

Well so does Havok. It just needs tweaking to make it almost exactly the same.

[Chaos Walker]

Behold Sonic Free Runner!

What's been done so far looks really impressive, especially regarding the physics. Personally, I don't care if true pinball mechanics are salvaged for the 3-D games, but as it stands, this is an excellent example of how it could be done.

(ohai Azukara)

I suppose that shows that the slippery Unleashed/Generations Sonic can do rollng if the environment is open enough, but platforming would be an ass. At least, we wouldn't have platforming in the sense that we were used to previously. Is that bad? Maybe not.

Spindash drift/topic

lolwut?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[LoseR]

Behold Sonic Free Runner!

What's been done so far looks really impressive, especially regarding the physics. Personally, I don't care if true pinball mechanics are salvaged for the 3-D games, but as it stands, this is an excellent example of how it could be done.

(ohai Azukara)

This does work very well. It does seem a BIT inconvenient at times when you're going high speeds... Of course, this could easily be solved by giving you the ability to uncurl like in Adventure 2...