On level variety...

[Chaosmaster8753]

With everyone mentioning how cities instantly means that this game lacks variety, what would you have to say about that? Also, from what I've seen of Seaside Hill and Planet Wisp, I don't think they have too much in common with Green Hill.

[KrazyBean]

I love all the levels, they all look diverse to me.

[HUNTER297]

NO! NO! Its THIS THREAD!

I am fine with list. It was my Dream List.

[EXshad]

To anyone complaining about level variety, I'd refer you to my post here:

Myself? I think it's an incredibly solid list, representing some of the best the franchise has to offer. If it was me however, I would have swapped out Speed Highway and Seaside Hill for Emerald Coast and Bingo Highway, simply because I think Emerald Coast is a more definitive "beach level", and while I DO absolutely love how Speed Highway is being handled, all the stuff I love about it (the noire-esque city, skyscrapers, brilliant neon-lighting, etc) could have all been done in Bingo Highway, but with more unique casino elements thrown into the mix as well, really giving it an identity of its own.

And yeah, I know that Casino Night mini-game is supposed to be this game's reference to the series' history with pinball gameplay, but I still think this would have been more interesting. Plus, maybe we could have seen a more unique mini-game implemented, perhaps, oh, I dunno... SKY CHASE? ;3

With that said, I'm still happy with the list we got though, and so far, every level looks like it's being handled with top-notch quality and care.

[Sonictrainer]

After everything I've seen so far from footage and pictures, I'm happy.

Speed Highway has you going through hotel buildings.

Escaping the city and the truck looks like fun.

Spagonia's having a festival of some sort and Eggman's ready to crash the party.

Crisis City looks like the ruins of a city that's constantly burning and being hit by tornadoes.

Seriously, this will be the best early birthday present ever.

[SimplePlan2k8]

I would have swapped Planet Wisp for Aquarium Park to get a water level in but beyond that, I'd say it's reasonably diverse. There aren't any areas that scream 'cloned' to me

[Indigo Rush]

I'll tell you, I'm one of the last people to ever admit that the general trope variety is unvaried. I understand (finally and humbly) that the presence of multiple city levels and green levels can be a turn-off to those who want to jump into the game with a more diverse approach.

However... I want to appeal to the other side in saying that these choices of levels show that there really wasn't another way, considering their given criteria, the level's popularity and significance to the series. Sonic Generations is supposed to be a tour of every level that stood out from their given era, and naturally we're going to see some cross-over. It really shows in the post-Genesis eras. I would think they might have picked, say, Emerald Coast and Casino Park instead of Speed Highway and Seaside Hill, but Seaside Hill is too much of a stand-out beach and ruins level that they had to axe Emerald Coast as the beach/aquatic level, and therefore Speed Highway had to take Casino Park's "nighttime neon" place, which in itself was a mind-blowingly fun level as well, so it seems to have worked out better. They could have done Twinkle Park instead, but I don't remember that level scoring very high on the popularity charts. As for Sonic Adventure 2's representation, anything other than City Escape wouldn't make sense.

As we go into the Modern era, if we had chosen Kingdom Valley, it'd be another green-ish level, and really it'd be either that or a level with fire and lava. Obviously the latter had to rule in favor, since the level selection had been lacking it, and Crisis City was really the only other stand-out level of Sonic 2006. Rooftop Run takes the Unleashed spot simply because of it's popular debut trailer and energetic atmosphere that we all enjoyed very much about the level. At the very least, they added a "carnival" and "parade" aspect to the level to give it a fresh take. Then there's Planet Wisp which comes from a game that seems to have been in development alongside Sonic Generations, so SEGA had to market Planet Wisp as the stand-out level of Colors in order for it's place in Generations to make sense. It was a good choice anyway, as Planet Wisp is one of everyone's favorites.

Could there have been more trope variety? I think it is possible, considering we could have had an "Emerald Coast, City Escape and Casino Park" configuration for the Dreamcast era, however the current level choices seem to make up for apparent trope similarity by making their visual appeal and gameplay flow very diverse. I'm certain that Sonic Team knew that some levels might look similar, so they did everything they could to make each level stand out among each other, and it really stands out.

For those of us missing the Casino trope, we are getting the Casino Night mini-game, though it's not a full level, we are getting representation one way or the other. My fingers are crossed for Ice Cap and Sand Oasis for DLC, personally, since Sonic 3 and Sonic and the Secret Rings both were featured in the 20th anniversary trailer, yet weren't represented in Generations. I like to think there wasn't enough space for those two game's representation, and we'll be getting some levels as DLC eventually. It's not too likely if they'll be starting from scratch, however if these levels were in development along with the rest of the game, then I think it's a plausible thought.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Nepenthe]

This topic's beating a dead horse, but I'll try to explain the side of people unhappy with this facet without pissing opponents off and assisting in devolving the discussion into the illiterate, frustrating nonsense it's been before. I'm hoping this won't be picked apart sentence by sentence in an effort to devalue the viewpoint, but rather taken at face value and understood by everyone who may not necessarily agree. Anyhoo:

Because this game's a celebration of the last 20 years of the franchise, some people were hoping for a more varied amount of environments to be visited in great detail. Green Hill and Seaside are as tropical levels while City Escape, Speed Highway, Crisis City, and Rooftop Run are urbanized levels. That's six out of nine levels with recurring themes, thus it seems like a wasted opportunity. Now, it's true that these levels possess artistic and thematic elements that make them markedly different from one another, but two things people take issue with that:

1) The differences between the levels don't negate the fact that they possess thematic similarities too. This point has, many times, been used as a blatant strawman, as no one rational has suggested these levels are mostly or exactly the same in every way, shape, or form.

2) The secondary tropes may not be remade or used to any meaningful extent to warrant people being placated with them, especially without video evidence of their use, which is ultimately what we wanted. So while Crisis City may have a secondary fire element, it was originally more of an aesthetic device instead of an active obstacle of the landscape. Certainly, there are better fire/lava based-levels in the series that could've brought this element more to the forefront and knocked down on the number of city levels simultaneously.

The list also seems to be missing two big popular tropes- the ice level and the carnival/pinball level- which only cements how hindered it feels.

For this next particular point, the on-going narrative around the level list has to be noted. Before the leaks, many conversations were deftly concerned about trope variety. Certain levels became bigger possibilities of appearing than others not only because of of their popularity but also because of the tropes they fulfilled. Dream lists were fairly rampant as well as active discussion from other members about the solidity of those lists. Afterwards, a significant amount of people claimed that the tropes took second stage to the popularity of the levels, that "they don't matter." Not only is that a noticeable betrayal of conversational landscape we had before, but if the tropes really don't matter, then that eliminates any reason for people to take issue with those who are upset on this basis as well as one of the most meaningful ways to debate the list's quality.

And concerning the popularity point, it's true that all of the levels chosen are pretty much the representatives of their respective games, more or less. That'd be fine if we had concretely known the criteria for level selection from the outset. There's been confusing statements made from Sega themselves over how the levels were selected, ranging from public Facebook polls, to internal review, to some weird combination thereof, and as such it cannot be held over the heads of those who're unsatisfied. Certainly, if we knew how the levels were being chosen, (e.g. which level was most popular from each game,) the outrage wouldn't have been so loud because there would've been no reason to establish such expectations. Hydrocity, Twinkle Park, Hang Castle, Dragon Road, Cool Edge, and Jungle Joyride would've barely entered into the discourse in the first place.

EDIT: A final rebuttal that's been leveled at opponents is the assumption that they would indeed be happy with the levels anyway once they were formally revealed, as prior levels had been met to great critical acclaim with no regard for how their tropes stacked up in the grand scheme. Taken further, this has been used to try and demonstrate the hypocrisy and melodrama of cynics, a snarky "gotcha" moment. Unfortunately, this is yet another strawman, as we've not set out to deride the quality of the visuals nor the level design. There's no conflict of interest present in being disappointed that Sky Sanctuary is in the game yet simultaneously admitting that it looks pretty and fun to play. This little retort is one that's gotten on my tits real bad.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Semi-colon e]

I was a bit bummed initially, but I think almost every level choice makes remarkable sense in terms of how iconic they are. Besides, some of my favourite levels in the entire franchise are in, so I'm pretty pleased with that

Green Hill - first level in the entire series, couldn't have NOT picked this.

Chemical Plant - hugely popular for it's intense speed, and well remembered for the mega mack being a bitch, it's a level people remember. Similarly, Casino Night in both versions is THE pinball level in the series, as it was the first to use the Casino thang.

Sky Sanctuary - plotwise, people remember it for the Death Egg rising and the grand scale of it all, really. Also remembered for the Mecha Sonic reused bosses - but neither plot or Mecha Sonic seems to be in this time, ironically.

Mushroom Hill - okay I have no fucking idea how this is "iconic" in any way.

Emerald Coast - was either this or Speed Highway. Emerald Coast was the first true beach level as well as the first fully 3D level, and it's been referenced ever since.

Speed Highway - iconic as hell, everyone remembers this stage and the goin' down bit. Hugely popular.

City Escape - super iconic, everyone remembers the landboarding, the truck, and the cheesy vocal song. This is THE SA2 level.

Radical Highway - tricky, but it's Shadow's debut level, and, like Speed Highway, a popular night time neon city. It's also been reused in the spin-offs and is a bit more recognisable because of this.

Seaside Hill - same as Radical Highway really, been re-used in spinoffs. So I guess it's gonna be remembered easily by non-fans, as well as being a first level.

Crisis City - THE Sonic 06 level. Spectacle, trailers loved this and Kingdom Valley, but overall I think this is more iconic and has more potential.

Rooftop Run - popular, and seems to have plot stuff with Pickle as well. The upbeatness of it is fondly remembered.

Planet Wisp - it's where the wisps are from, as well as where Eggman's plot is really shown in most depth.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Semi-colon e

[frokenok3]

I'm gonna ahead and say that in the end it's a personal opinion on what anyone thinks it's best. For me it's a DREAM list.

They literally picked my favorite stages from the games. Only change i'd make? Planet Wisp for Aquarium Park.

SORRY BUT THAT MUSIC I CAN"T FORGET!!! NEVER!!!

[mclaren6]

Only change I'd make?

Seaside Hill for Egg Fleet...

Other that that its all my favourite stages AND bosses

[Detective Shadzter]

I'm quite happy with the levels now I've seen them in action. They really are stand-out levels. I would have liked an ice level, a proper casino level and maybe maybe a proper water level, but I'm not too fussed. We can't say SEGA didn't listen or anything, as the lists for both the HD and 3DS versions are the results of polling both SEGA staff and fans worldwide.

[Bria]

I'm fine with this level selection. I love Speed Highway and City Escape, Green Hill is a good memory, Chemical Plant was my favorite level in Sonic 2, and Sky Sanctuary was one of three favorite levels in Sonic 3/Knuckles. I would have loved to see Flying Battery or Icecap, but Sky Sanctuary is a great level, nonetheless.

I'm more out of the loop with the Modern ones, seeing as I never played 06. Rooftop Run is pretty good looking, I suppose. Love how Planet Wisp looks. My favorite levels in Colors was Starlight Carnival, but Planet Wisp seems to make more sense given it's the aliens home planet.

[Spooky Mulder]

I think the levels are varied...but not as much as they could be. Individually, most of the level choices are good, but as a whole, I do think there's too many levels set in cities. If I was the one choosing the stages it would have looked like this:

Green Hill

Chemical Plant

Sky Sanctuary

Ice Cap (SA)

City Escape

Seaside Hill

Crisis City

Rooftop Run

Planet Wisp

I think just by changing out a single level it makes the whole game feel more diverse, especially since it would cover one of the major tropes in the series.

[Robogaman]

I was very happy to see Crisis City. Despite it being in a bad game, it was still one of my favorite Sonic levels. The rest of the Level list is great, imo.

[Chaosmaster8753]

Even though the demand for Ice Cap is overdone, I actually think that if it was a successful mixture between the Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure ones, it would be a perfect match for a game like this.

[Crazizzle]

My biggest gripe was the lack of Lost World and the lack of Sonic 3 in EITHER version.

Nepenthe nailed it with her post, but I'd also like to say that Sonic Team did a nice job actually implementing the levels. That doesn't mean that we would not have still been better off with more diverse levels to begin with.

I would have used Lost World or Red Mountain over Speed Highway, and Bingo Highway over Seaside Hill. That makes things more diverse right there. It's all moot now, the levels look fantastic. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been even better. I still think it's possible we could get a Generations 2 with more levels, as Sonic Team likely doesn't want to release the next major Sonic on this Generation of consoles. But that's just Wild Mass Guessing.

[McGroose]

I would have liked to see an ice level or maybe even a desert level, but other then that, I have nothing against the level list.

....Except I wish Seaside hill was called Ocean palace since Ocean palace sounds more interesting.

[KrazyBean]

....Except I wish Seaside hill was called Ocean palace since Ocean palace sounds more interesting.

But the stage IS Seaside Hill...it still has the GHZ-ish part in the beginning before it transitions to the Ruins part. Ocean Palace is ALL Ruins.

You know that you can change the background music in levels, right? I'm sure that Ocean Palace will be a choice

Edited October 7, 2011 by KrazyBean14

[Gregzilla]

I had my doubts at first, but seeing the levels in action I really think the selection looks great. I was really disappointed that they picked Seaside Hill over something unique like Egg Fleet or Hang Castle, but after seeing screens and vids I think it looks fantastic, and possibly my most anticipated level. The only thing I would have changed is adding a Sonic 3 level ( I'm not THAT big of an Ice Cap fan, but I guess it's the most iconic S3 level) and switching Speed Highway for Lost World. Speed Highway's cool, but since City Escape is already there ( and arguably a better representation of SA2 than Speed HIghway is of SA1) I would have much rather had something unique like Lost World, or Sky Deck as my 2nd choice.

I can't say I'm very happy with the 3DS version though.

Green Hill - well, of course. It's a given.

Casino NIght - Fine, good to get some casino trope representation.

Mushroom Hill - .....seriously? ANY other S3&K level would have been better. Lava Reef, Hydrocity, Flying Battery, etc. all would have been great. Instead we get a generic forest.

Emerald Coast - most iconic SA1 level, yes, but others like Lost World, Sky Deck, and Red Mountain are so much more interesting.

Radical Highway - They picked a boring Shadow highway level over Pyramid Cave, Metal Harbor, or Final Rush? FAIL.

I will admit my unhappiness towards the 3DS levels also comes from the fact that the level design looks awful. It looks very bland and simple compared to the console version.

[KHCast]

I had my doubts at first, but seeing the levels in action I really think the selection looks great. I was really disappointed that they picked Seaside Hill over something unique like Egg Fleet or Hang Castle, but after seeing screens and vids I think it looks fantastic, and possibly my most anticipated level. The only thing I would have changed is adding a Sonic 3 level ( I'm not THAT big of an Ice Cap fan, but I guess it's the most iconic S3 level) and switching Speed Highway for Lost World. Speed Highway's cool, but since City Escape is already there ( and arguably a better representation of SA2 than Speed HIghway is of SA1) I would have much rather had something unique like Lost World, or Sky Deck as my 2nd choice.

I can't say I'm very happy with the 3DS version though.

Green Hill - well, of course. It's a given.

Casino NIght - Fine, good to get some casino trope representation.

Mushroom Hill - .....seriously? ANY other S3&K level would have been better. Lava Reef, Hydrocity, Flying Battery, etc. all would have been great. Instead we get a generic forest.

Emerald Coast - most iconic SA1 level, yes, but others like Lost World, Sky Deck, and Red Mountain are so much more interesting.

Radical Highway - They picked a boring Shadow highway level over Pyramid Cave, Metal Harbor, or Final Rush? FAIL.

I will admit my unhappiness towards the 3DS levels also comes from the fact that the level design looks awful. It looks very bland and simple compared to the console version.

[Agent York]

I am fine with most of the list, but I will be honest it wasn't until recently when I realized part of the reason it took me awhile to get hyped for the game is because they didn't choose most of my personal favorites. Those that have favorites in the game would have that excite factor, but for me I was lacking that high nostalgia as my favorite stages in the series weren't there. Though I am biased and the stages from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Adventure, and Colors would have the greatest effect for me.

But then seeing Planet Wisp, my second favorite stage in Colors, I got that affect. I might like Aquarium Park more, but I was still really excited to see it. And Crisis City, for... Some... Reason. I think because I thought that stage had potential that can finally be tapped now.

For me, on a personal level, if they had just selected a different Sonic Adventure level I would probably like the list more. There are other stages I like more than others, but I think something else in place of Speed Highway would of done it for me. Speed Highway is a fun stage in Adventure and I am happy to have it, but it does not stick out among the other levels in the game. I would be a million times happier if it was Lost World, or Sky Deck, or Twinkle Park, or Final Egg, or Red Mountain, or Ice Cap. I will admit, in my bias, I am happier with Speed Highway than Emerald Coast, and on the same level as Windy Valley for me. But it is what it is, so I am satisfied (and still praying there will be DLC).

Edited October 8, 2011 by Dusk Golem

[Sparky]

If they Chose Kingdom Valley for Sonic 06, Would it reeaaaaaaaally make sense?

Think about Sonic 06 for a Bit.

Think about Crisis City for a Bit.

What do they have in common.

[HUNTER297]

If they Chose Kingdom Valley for Sonic 06, Would it reeaaaaaaaally make sense?

Think about Sonic 06 for a Bit.

Think about Crisis City for a Bit.

What do they have in common.

Crisis City was reason why Silver travelled to past with Blaze. And that journey was like what began plot to move. Kingdom Valley wasnt that important to story. Well Mephiles was relased there and Silver and Blaze returned to future from there but still.

[Sparky]

Crisis City was reason why Silver travelled to past with Blaze. And that journey was like what began plot to move. Kingdom Valley wasnt that important to story. Well Mephiles was relased there and Silver and Blaze returned to future from there but still.

besides that. I mean Sonic 2006 was the lowest point in the franchise, A Disaster. Crisis City is a Disaster.