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My annoyance with Omochao not withstanding, this demo is FREAKING FANTASTIC!!! I actually quite liked Sonic 4, but even so I can't help but feel that this game nails the classic Sonic feel quite a bit better. And the modern stages...OMG! It's like Unleashed but...polished. Even the drift controls seem to work perfectly now (Though Green Hill Zone doesn't really have any areas to truly test it out) Speaking of which, I love how Sonic now curls into an old-school ball when he drifts. Really, the only complaint I have so far is that Classic Sonic's jumping controls feel a little stiff, but it's far from being a game-breaker.

I normally don't say stuff like this so early on, but if the rest of the game is as good as this, then this is going to be one of my favorite Sonic games ever, easily in the top five list. And I love being able to say that, because that particular list hasn't had a contender since the Dreamcast days.

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Now that the PS3 US demo is available, I was finally able to download and play it. Modern Sonic feels pretty good in controls and speed handling. My only complaint is that I'll have to get used to the Homing Attack remapped from the boost button 9Unleashed) to the jump button (again). Moving on to classic Sonic.

Classic Sonic controls better than the Anniversary Demo, and I guess the rolling is slightly improved. However physics are pretty much 50% classic. You've got your speed, you've got your platforming, and you've partically got rolling and bouncing (around 20%). But where's the other remaining 80% of bouncing and rolling? Additionally, where's your freedom in gameplay?

Tunnels, springs, ramps, and bounce height are all still scripted, unfortunately. The scripting can get really badly show at times when you're just messing around the platforms (example, scripted upward ramps catapult you to a fixed section in the air,. I can't roll down a slope or ramp and gain speed from doing so. And I can't help but feel that Sonic Team is kinda trying to convince players to not use the rolling feature at all. Sideway ramps when ran into at a high speed catapult the player to the fixed position in the air (in which you can't move from until you're going down, BTW), and when you fall you fall onto a platform, instead of falling straight down the ramp (this happens if you don't move or anything). Additionally, when I try to use a nearby slope to roll through the loops, some strange platform at the bottom stops me cold and forbids me from doing so unless I spandash (which also hasn't changed in terms of controls). Oh and that big corkscrew across the pit of death near the end? Scripted as well! Not only does the corkscrew forces Sonic to uncurl, but if you have the right amount of speed, you can cross it with no imput whatsoever!

Modern Sonic's pretty well done. Classic Sonic has half of his classic gameplay there, but the other half is replaced with more speed (spamdash), more platforming, and scripted elements galore. It's still a lot better than Sonic 4's 5% classic physics (as far as I'm concerned, they only got part of the platforming right.). All in all, the demo's OK. Can't wait for the game when it's released next week.

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Now that the PS3 US demo is available, I was finally able to download and play it. Modern Sonic feels pretty good in controls and speed handling. My only complaint is that I'll have to get used to the Homing Attack remapped from the boost button 9Unleashed) to the jump button (again). Moving on to classic Sonic.

Classic Sonic controls better than the Anniversary Demo, and I guess the rolling is slightly improved. However physics are pretty much 50% classic. You've got your speed, you've got your platforming, and you've partically got rolling and bouncing (around 20%). But where's the other remaining 80% of bouncing and rolling? Additionally, where's your freedom in gameplay?

Tunnels, springs, ramps, and bounce height are all still scripted, unfortunately. The scripting can get really badly show at times when you're just messing around the platforms (example, scripted upward ramps catapult you to a fixed section in the air,. I can't roll down a slope or ramp and gain speed from doing so. And I can't help but feel that Sonic Team is kinda trying to convince players to not use the rolling feature at all. Sideway ramps when ran into at a high speed catapult the player to the fixed position in the air (in which you can't move from until you're going down, BTW), and when you fall you fall onto a platform, instead of falling straight down the ramp (this happens if you don't move or anything). Additionally, when I try to use a nearby slope to roll through the loops, some strange platform at the bottom stops me cold and forbids me from doing so unless I spandash (which also hasn't changed in terms of controls). Oh and that big corkscrew across the pit of death near the end? Scripted as well! Not only does the corkscrew forces Sonic to uncurl, but if you have the right amount of speed, you can cross it with no imput whatsoever!

Modern Sonic's pretty well done. Classic Sonic has half of his classic gameplay there, but the other half is replaced with more speed (spamdash), more platforming, and scripted elements galore. It's still a lot better than Sonic 4's 5% classic physics (as far as I'm concerned, they only got part of the platforming right.). All in all, the demo's OK. Can't wait for the game when it's released next week.

Well, the problem is that changing stuff like the bouncing would have too much of a significant effect. The level design at the moment for the majority of the Classic levels is reliant very much on the fact that the bounce height is fixed. If it was reliant on the height in which you fell on an enemy, it would break some aspects of the level design and make some parts of the levels impossible to reach. Also, as regards to the corkscrew, the uncurling isn't automation. Sonic will uncurl in that sense wherever. It's due to the fact that he's not properly building up speed whilst rolling. You see, if you hold down whilst rolling, you lose a lot of speed for some reason, but retain the ball. If you hold forward, you can maintain it better but you then uncurl afterwards.

Most of these things don't really bother me as much personally. There's still loads of cool things that I've found I can do with Classic Sonic anyways because despite the automation in places like the springs and dash pads, I actually never felt truly restricted, and I still overall felt a nice sense of control. Not as much as the classics, but more than basically any 2D Sonic game to date. The rolling however, does bother me, because in its current state it just seems really rather redundant (as you said). There is no point in rolling unless you were rolling from a spindash.

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I found something kinda weird in the demo. For some reason, Sonic's boost in one of my playthrough's glitched up a little bit. If you watch this video, you'll see what I mean. Sorry for the poor quality. I have nothing to record with other than my iPod, and I had to hold my iPod with one hand, and play with my PS3 controller in another. Also, it's most noticeable in the 2D sections due to the poor quality.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJ9U49FMHlM

EDIT: Another oddity happened: Classic Sonic's little running pose twirl overlay thing that makes it look like Sonic's feet are twirling disappeared randomly. Again, sorry for the very poor quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lycDWjpUOTM

Edited by Sky The Destroyer

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Sometimes, when I boost I have trouble making big jumps. Is that common, or some kind of lag for me? I have no issues with Unleashed.

I can compensate for it easily, but it prevented me from hitting some upper routes at first.

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Well, the problem is that changing stuff like the bouncing would have too much of a significant effect. The level design at the moment for the majority of the Classic levels is reliant very much on the fact that the bounce height is fixed. If it was reliant on the height in which you fell on an enemy, it would break some aspects of the level design and make some parts of the levels impossible to reach.

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While this is true, there's no excuse for not getting this right before making an entire game around it. Measure twice, cut once and all that.

Also I would think this particular issue could be largely solved by having a minimum bounce height. Program in proper bouncing, then add a bit that checks if the bounce speed is less than the minimum (what is currently the fixed bounce speed) and, if it is, set it to the minimum. All they'd need to do is test for places where you could megabounce past scripted events and break the game, and change enemy placement/add walls/enforce a maximum bounce speed if necessary.

As much as I would normally disagree with you on stuff, I'd have to agree with everything you've said here. That would definitely make bouncing a lot more satisfying to use and would definitely offer a great sense of control.

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I just had an interesting conversation with someone.

I won't say who he is but I'll just describe his trophy list... filled with shooting games (even Big Game hunting is on here) Call of Duty, Call of Juarez, Crysis 2, Dead Island, lots of sports games and a lot of 'trophy booster' games. (he is not a member here).

About three weeks ago, this guy sent me a PM asking me what game I was looking forward to the most... he said he was waiting on Fifa 11, MW3 and Battlefield 3...

So I said "Sonic Generations, I've played several builds over the year, each time it just gets better and better, it's probably my most anticipated game of the year after Dark Souls"

He then sends "Sonic huh? Well not played that for years, but if theres a demo I'll look at it."

Today I notice that he's playing the Generations demo and just now I get a new PM.

"wats the date 4 the new sonic game m8? its a fukin beasty game bruV"

For those who don't know what that means, it means he liked it a lot.

So I tell him "Next week, November 4th"

I get this reply

"thxz bruV defo get dis over uncharted 3 man"

Ok... like... wow, if this demo is having that impact on someone like this guy who is very into his shooters and is saying that he's getting it over Uncharted 3, what kind of impact is it having on the wider community?

Fuck the people who want to be the first to give us their 'professional wisdom' by being the first person to post a comment on whatever news site they visit. It's having an affect on people, people seem to be genually likeing this game once they download the demo and play it. And I don't mean "I've been against Sonic from the start!" or "YAY NEW SONIC GAME ZOMIGOD!" I mean people who didn't really know that there was a new Sonic game out this year.

Oh, All of my freinds who don't play Sonic hated it sad.png

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I just had an interesting conversation with someone.

I won't say who he is but I'll just describe his trophy list... filled with shooting games (even Big Game hunting is on here) Call of Duty, Call of Juarez, Crysis 2, Dead Island, lots of sports games and a lot of 'trophy booster' games. (he is not a member here).

About three weeks ago, this guy sent me a PM asking me what game I was looking forward to the most... he said he was waiting on Fifa 11, MW3 and Battlefield 3...

So I said "Sonic Generations, I've played several builds over the year, each time it just gets better and better, it's probably my most anticipated game of the year after Dark Souls"

He then sends "Sonic huh? Well not played that for years, but if theres a demo I'll look at it."

Today I notice that he's playing the Generations demo and just now I get a new PM.

"wats the date 4 the new sonic game m8? its a fukin beasty game bruV"

For those who don't know what that means, it means he liked it a lot.

So I tell him "Next week, November 4th"

I get this reply

"thxz bruV defo get dis over uncharted 3 man"

Ok... like... wow, if this demo is having that impact on someone like this guy who is very into his shooters and is saying that he's getting it over Uncharted 3, what kind of impact is it having on the wider community?

Fuck the people who want to be the first to give us their 'professional wisdom' by being the first person to post a comment on whatever news site they visit. It's having an affect on people, people seem to be genually likeing this game once they download the demo and play it. And I don't mean "I've been against Sonic from the start!" or "YAY NEW SONIC GAME ZOMIGOD!" I mean people who didn't really know that there was a new Sonic game out this year.

HALLLELUJAH!!

Edited by KrazyBean14

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Well, the problem is that changing stuff like the bouncing would have too much of a significant effect. The level design at the moment for the majority of the Classic levels is reliant very much on the fact that the bounce height is fixed. If it was reliant on the height in which you fell on an enemy, it would break some aspects of the level design and make some parts of the levels impossible to reach. Also, as regards to the corkscrew, the uncurling isn't automation. Sonic will uncurl in that sense wherever. It's due to the fact that he's not properly building up speed whilst rolling. You see, if you hold down whilst rolling, you lose a lot of speed for some reason, but retain the ball. If you hold forward, you can maintain it better but you then uncurl afterwards.

Most of these things don't really bother me as much personally. There's still loads of cool things that I've found I can do with Classic Sonic anyways because despite the automation in places like the springs and dash pads, I actually never felt truly restricted, and I still overall felt a nice sense of control. Not as much as the classics, but more than basically any 2D Sonic game to date. The rolling however, does bother me, because in its current state it just seems really rather redundant (as you said). There is no point in rolling unless you were rolling from a spindash.

I think the main problem is that Sonic Team creates the level design first, and THEN works on the physics engine afterwards, instead of the other way around. Not to mention that classic Sonic's gameplay is modern Sonic's 3D gameplay engine in a 2D perspective.

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Regarding Hogfathers post: I'll bet we'll be seeing a lot of that. I've shown Generations to a few of my friends who don't follow Sonic, but know the series, and they were blown away. The nostalgia will go a long way for this game. Show Sonic Colors to my friends: looks fun, but doesn't attract them. Show Unleashed to my friends: great graphics, hey it's Sonic, but doesn't get them hyped. Show them Green Hill demo and Dreamcast era stages and they are loving it.

Great thing is, they don't give a shit about physics being different or a spin dash being more powerful. That's just stupid geek talk to them. What they see is a likely awesome Sonic game with a number of nods to stuff they remember from the '90's.

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I've seen friends talking about the game on Facebook, and I even had an ex girlfriend like my comment about planning to buy the game at midnight lol. I never even knew she played Sonic games, it's funny.

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Not to bring Mario into the discussion (damn, I already did by saying that!) but I think a large part of his appeal is the fact that Mario games continually reference the past titles. Galaxy 1&2 may be brand new games, but they toss in loads of enemies and environments for hardcores and casuals to get drunk on the nostalgia of it all. I know for a fact that my friends see stuff like Mario Galaxy and only really give a shit when they see Koopa Troopas, green pipes and brown bricks. Thats what brings them in, and all the other new and unique stuff is just the added bonus.

I totally respect Sonic Team for presenting new enemies and environments in games like SA2, '06, Unleashed and Colors, but they really should tap into nostalgia more often as they do in Generations. The general public love animal robots and checkerboard rock formations. To them, that's Sonic. A stage like Green Hill Zone will excite far more people than a stage like Planet Wisp or Rooftop Run. Future Sonic titles should really learn from Generations by keeping elements from the classic era like badniks (no Egg Fighters or Pawns) and recognizable zone cliches. Then mix things up with new environments and enemies, thus roping them in with the nostalgia and presenting them with new stuff. Colors sort of did this, as did Heroes. Though the latter fudged up by adding gameplay elements that didn't work well.

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Not to bring Mario into the discussion (damn, I already did by saying that!) but I think a large part of his appeal is the fact that Mario games continually reference the past titles. Galaxy 1&2 may be brand new games, but they toss in loads of enemies and environments for hardcores and casuals to get drunk on the nostalgia of it all. I know for a fact that my friends see stuff like Mario Galaxy and only really give a shit when they see Koopa Troopas, green pipes and brown bricks. Thats what brings them in, and all the other new and unique stuff is just the added bonus.

I totally respect Sonic Team for presenting new enemies and environments in games like SA2, '06, Unleashed and Colors, but they really should tap into nostalgia more often as they do in Generations. The general public love animal robots and checkerboard rock formations. To them, that's Sonic. A stage like Green Hill Zone will excite far more people than a stage like Planet Wisp or Rooftop Run. Future Sonic titles should really learn from Generations by keeping elements from the classic era like badniks (no Egg Fighters or Pawns) and recognizable zone cliches. Then mix things up with new environments and enemies, thus roping them in with the nostalgia and presenting them with new stuff. Colors sort of did this, as did Heroes. Though the latter fudged up by adding gameplay elements that didn't work well.

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There's really no reason past locations can't show up in newer games, lots of franchises do it. I mean, it's one big world after all. Why can't new levels be in similar areas as old ones? Or have a similar gimmick?

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Do you mean move on as in get over the references to the past and only experience new elements to the franchise? Because I do respect that Sonic Team tried this in a number of games, but Generations seems to be proving that people respond better to nostalgic references than they do to brand spankin' new elements.

Like Mario, I think Sonic could continue for years with including elements of the past in every game, and featuring new elements as well. Not so much new gameplay elements, as that usually leads to treasure hunting werehogs, but new enemies and environments.

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Do you mean move on as in get over the references to the past and only experience new elements to the franchise? Because I do respect that Sonic Team tried this in a number of games, but Generations seems to be proving that people respond better to nostalgic references than they do to brand spankin' new elements.

Like Mario, I think Sonic could continue for years with including elements of the past in every game, and featuring new elements as well. Not so much new gameplay elements, as that usually leads to treasure hunting werehogs, but new enemies and environments.

Been saying it for ages, Sonic needs some brand recognition. One or two recurring locations, recurring music (theme tune dammit!) and a bit of consistency from one game to the next- it would really help to make new ideas look less daunting. In order for that to happen though, Sonic Team have to go back to what people know and love, like they have done with S4, Colours and Generations. Now for a desperate attempt to keep things on topic... The GHZ demo is nice way to ease people into the game. It's a familiar level played in a familiar fashion, or in a new and different way to what everyone's used to. New ideas, consistent with what people already know.

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