Sonic's ideal characterization topic

[Sonictrainer]

That's nice but did you read the comic afterwards? Do you really think Sonic wanted to fight Tails? Throughout the whole comic series Tails knew little about his parent's and grew up with Sonic and his friends. Now i know little about Archie however i don't think it deserves hate.

 

Still, you'd think that his parents would have waited to try and change the government and start a civil war directly after being defeated and captured by Dr. Eggman.

 

One of the reasons why Archie Sonic is controversial is because his character is effected by whoever's writing him at the time.

 

While I am a fan of Archie Sonic, I can fully understand why people don't like how the comics portray him and the other characters.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

- "Roger can only portray the way his director...directs him to and it's the inherent tone of the lines that largely dictates the direction he takes Sonic's voice."

That is not true. The voice actors have control over how they portray the characters, the directors only guide them and tell them which direction to go in based on the character's personality.

Hate, to break it to ya, Ash, but voice directing holds a lot more weight than you think it does. Voice direction is the reason Mike Pollock's Eggman was dialed back so harshly in bravado, tone and the like, compared to Eggman in games and shows, before and after 06. And let us not sugar coat and forget the very source where it's revealed that SEGA themselves directed for the new (and improved by now in my opinion) Sonic voice, which confirms the truth of Vertekins' argument:

 

 

Roger Craig Smith: SEGA Wanted Sonic To Sound Older

Official News · Posted on October 30, 2010 by Shadzter

New Sonic voice actor Roger Craig Smith attended London’s MCM Expo today to help promote Ubisoft’s new game Assassins Creed Brotherhood, in which he plays the role of Ezio Auditore De Firenze, but that didn’t stop him from gladly speaking to Sonic fans at the event too. SSMB Members Doctor Sonic and Jaymeister got to meet Smith briefly and both had nice things to say about the voice actor.

Jaymeister feels he has a passion for his role as Sonic:

It was also interesting when I talked to him at MCM. He actually noted how there wasn’t the best reaction to the original Alton Towers clips, so I guess that may have also been an influence.

Really nice guy though, I can tell just by our 2 minute conversation, he really cares about his role and is very willing to listen to feedback in order to give what the fans want. He just seemed totally natural when talking to the fans, be they of Assassins Creed or Sonic. I hope to meet him again one day.

Doctor Sonic found out some interesting information from Smith behind the voice direction for Sonic:

I met Roger today at the MCM expo in London. Hes a really nice guy and was very happy to talk about voicing Sonic.

Without me even mentioning the deepness of his Sonic voice

he said he had been told by Sega that they wanted Sonic to sound older

. From what he said it sounds like Sega consider this to be an important factor in the current relaunch of Sonic.

So there you go, the deeper voice is what Sega wants, so it looks like it will be staying,

If you recall the clear and unedited Alton Towers voice clips, Smith did portray a lighter voice for Sonic back then when compared with the voice we revealed as part of a joint-exclusive with Sonic Retro and Sonic Wrecks yesterday.

Have a listen to both voice clips below for comparison and share your thoughts on the voice direction in the comments.

Clear and unedited Alton Towers voice clips:

Sonic Colours cutscene:

Roger Craig Smith will be back at the MCM Expo tomorrow if you missed out today and would like to meet him. More information about the Expo can be found at the events official website.

Thanks to Doctor Sonic and Jaymeister at the for the information.

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2010/10/roger-craig-smith-sega-wanted-sonic-to-sound-older/

 

And not to mention how much of an indication the change in Amy's voice for Boom is.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Archie Sonic just really comes off the wrong way to me, he has all the self righteousness and obnoxiousness people complain about Pontac's Sonic but upped to eleven, and replacing the comedic setup with angst and melodrama. One could consider it worse since Sonic's arrogance in Archie has serious long lasting consequences on people, and he usually learns from it as successfully.

That's actually why some consider it better than what has been done in recent games, because while not perfect, Sonic gets called out on his attitude, or it bites him harshly in the ass and requires more effort for him to fix compared to his more effortless endeavors done in the games like Colors and Generations until Lost World made an attempt to do similar. We cheer Sonic's attitude when it works, and we expect problems when he gets too full of himself (or laugh at them if it's portrayed comically and embarrasses him), and whether he succeeds or fails he usually learns from it in the process or makes an attempt to do so. There's more dimensions within Archie Sonic and his arrogance than the recent games, which is at the same time balanced by his heroics and altruism when he throws himself in to fix the problems at a much greater risk to himself.

 

It adds to the essence that is conflict, it being a major centerpiece whether caused by the protagonist, the antagonist, or outside events; quality and handling being essential nonetheless, the more the conflict is felt, the better. Although that does become ambiguous depending on who's doing the writing, or the events and set pieces needed to get from one place to another within a given time with comics coming out on a timely basis.

[PandoloFox]

Hate, to break it to ya, Ash, but voice directing holds a lot more weight than you think it does. Voice direction is the reason Mike Pollock's Eggman was dialed back so harshly in bravado, tone and the like, compared to Eggman in games and shows, before and after 06. And let us not sugar coat and forget the very source where it's revealed that SEGA themselves directed for the new (and improved by now in my opinion) Sonic voice, which confirms the truth of Vertekins' argument:

 

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2010/10/roger-craig-smith-sega-wanted-sonic-to-sound-older/

 

And not to mention how much of an indication the change in Amy's voice for Boom is.

Sounding older is also a part of this sonics personality since i guess they wanted him to be more mature, the interpretation of how an older sonic would sound like though is up to Roger. Ofcourse if Sega doesnt like it he would have to retry, this is also true for sonics personality in general since a personality trait will change the tone the voice actor is using. As for how strict they are isnt realy mentioned here.

I dont mind Rogers sonic voice, its not great and its not bad either.

[E-122-Psi]

That's actually why some consider it better than what has been done in recent games, because while not perfect, Sonic gets called out on his attitude, or it bites him harshly in the ass and requires more effort for him to fix compared to his more effortless endeavors done in the games like Colors and Generations until Lost World made an attempt to do similar. We cheer Sonic's attitude when it works, and we expect problems when he gets too full of himself (or laugh at them if it's portrayed comically and embarrasses him), and whether he succeeds or fails he usually learns from it in the process or makes an attempt to do so. There's more dimensions within Archie Sonic and his arrogance than the recent games, which is at the same time balanced by his heroics and altruism when he throws himself in to fix the problems at a much greater risk to himself.

 

It adds to the essence that is conflict, it being a major centerpiece whether caused by the protagonist, the antagonist, or outside events; quality and handling being essential nonetheless, the more the conflict is felt, the better. Although that does become ambiguous depending on who's doing the writing, or the events and set pieces needed to get from one place to another within a given time with comics coming out on a timely basis.

There's something about Archie Sonic I feels kinda gets too odious however, like he's almost a hypocritical control freak. I could maybe argue this is due to the uneasy attempts to blend his comics form with his games form, which have different backgrounds and stands. Archie Sonic actively supports a monarchy and is tied down with his own roots, Games Sonic likely wouldn't care who rules so long as they don't dictate him and others, he's too busy doing his own thing.

 

Lost World did get called out for screwing up and he accepted that. Similar to Archie Sonic he was also shown getting frustrated and disillusioned by it. I though he kept a better check of his positive traits however (he got pissy with the Zeti, but kept composure). Archie Sonic has a tendency to lose his rag and get rather vindictive and bad tempered the moment people don't act the way he wants, which is worsened by adding actual politics to the matter, which Sonic goes on and off about (usually according to what his girlfriend represents or whatever lets him have things his way, both him and Sally have been shown to have a very circumstantial view to democracy). Having strawmen enable him doesn't help.

 

In terms of consequences, I'm in and out about it. Having unreversed dire consequences might work if Sonic's character actually changed according to it, but that can't really happen. He'll still be reckless and like the wind for as long as he lives. As such having people successfully get hurt, robotocized or killed for his trademark mistakes and ultimately forgotten risks making him an incredibly unsympathetic character. It's not good overdoing it with temporary consequences either, but at least it's not quite as apathetic.

 

He's not alone in this problem. Sonic X Sonic had a similar problem, due to being full on aloof and free range, but issuing an 'anti individualism' moral the moments anyone like Knuckles or the Chaotix didn't agree with him (though it was at least mostly inflicted by his worshiping team mates instead). Unlike either case, Sonic X Sonic was NEVER called out, or when he was it didn't build to anything and the accuser usually ended up king Butt Monkey for it. Sonic was cool and awesome, why couldn't they see that, even when he did make mistakes.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

There's something about Archie Sonic I feels kinda gets too odious however, like he's almost a hypocritical control freak. I could maybe argue this is due to the uneasy attempts to blend his comics form with his games form, which have different backgrounds and stands.

How so? That usually depends on who he's around, and he usually has the experience to back up his comments unless someone knows something he doesn't, or there's multiple factors involved.

 

Lost World did get called out for screwing up and he accepted that. Similar to Archie Sonic he was also shown getting frustrated and disillusioned by it. I though he kept a better check of his positive traits however. Archie Sonic has a tendency to lose his rag and get rather vindictive and bad tempered the moment people don't act the way he wants, which is worsened by adding actual politics to the matter, which Sonic goes on and off about (usually according to what his girlfriend represents or whatever lets him have things his way, both him and Sally have been shown to have a very circumstantial view to democracy). Having strawmen enable him doesn't help.

Yes, I've noted that Lost World attempted this, but that's practically the only one since Unleashed, and it's still not as intense and layered as what goes on in Archie. But as far as Archie Sonic goes when people don't act the way he wants, that's more for extreme cases or when he's at his most arrogant and overconfident. But this isn't common, as he generally snarks it off when people act contrary, whether playfully, antagonistically, or sourly, but otherwise cooperates when it doesn't go his way. Nevermind the politics roadblocking him from doing the right or moral thing, but that's an irritant to any character from any franchise this occurs in regardless of the media out there, but usually the strawmen are acknowledged to have a point even when put in a bad light.

 

 

 

In terms of consequences, I'm in and out about it. Having unreversed dire consequences might work if Sonic's character actually changed according to it, but that can't really happen. He'll still be reckless and like the wind for as long as he lives. As such having people successfully get hurt, robotocized or killed for his trademark mistakes and ultimately forgotten risks making him an incredibly unsympathetic character. It's not good overdoing it with temporary consequences either, but at least it's not quite as apathetic.

That's being one sided.

 

Whether consequences are reversible or not, you'd be surprised how much Sonic has actually changed and adapted to different circumstances even with his recklessness. And these consequences and mistakes of his only make him unsympathetic if A. the people they affect aren't jerks to him in response which negates any lack of sympathy on him and transfers it to them (which we all know as "Asshole Victims"), and/or B. Sonic doesn't feel sorry or remorseful for those consequences happening. You can't ignore things like his reactions and when it comes to determining whether Sonic (or any character for that matter) is sympathetic or not, because that's the very link to what makes him sympathetic. His failures have to show from within him as well, so if he slips up and regrets it, there's the sympathy from him despite what he couldn't or didn't do. Likewise, if the people affected aren't jerks and Sonic doesn't show any concern for his consequences affecting innocent or other sympathetic characters (which is rare given his altruism), then that's where things get unsympathetic for him.

 

In short, for Sonic to be sympathetic, he himself has to care, which he generally does. Says a lot that Sonic actually felt sorry and somewhat merciful for Eggman when he mentally broke him before the Iron Dominion arc began, for example. Also says a lot that as soon as Eggman bounced back from his insanity and became much more dangerous as a result, Sonic regretted being merciful.

[E-122-Psi]

I mean by the fact that if Sonic's cockiness has dire deadly consequences, they can of course make him act mournful, but only for so long. He can't be developed out of being Sonic. After a while he'll forget the mistake he's made and go back to being cocky and reckless, which seems like a big insult to the person or fraction he previously cost. It's at least slightly more justifiable if he keeps having near misses but if he's had many irreversible instances people have been hurt or even lost, it looks worse for him going back to that mistake. In Archie he's hasn't just had the usual light hearted nagging of friends like Sally, but also battle losses, deaths and even politics try to drop the anvil on his head what his recklessness or arrogance is costing him and many others he asks to depend on him, but of course, to be Sonic he still has to revert to old habits.

 

Being a jerk isn't a free pass either. It can if they were the ones who actually hindered Sonic in some way, but as you mentioned with Eggman, Sonic still has scruples and empathy, and they don't change just because he doesn't like the person in question.

[Celestia]

I do really like the "acts before thinking things through" characteristic, especially if it means seeing him be more proactive, but depending on how the writers/future writers go about it, it...might be a bit hard to sell after the events of Lost World. There's also the fact that while people (and I guess talking hedgehogs ) are capable of changing their behaviour, it isn't as easy as flicking a light switch. As unlikely as it is since continuity is fairly light in Sonic, it'd be genuinely interesting to me to see him struggle with the urge to leap into action in certain situations if it could mean something going wrong. 
 

"Roger's a very talented VA", is completely opinion.

Then you can safely assume that it wasn't intended as a 100% irrefutable, factual statement. You usually can in cases like this. Otherwise everyone would be forced to add "imo" to pretty much everything.

 

Fair enough with your other points, tho'; voice acting is a very subjective thing (for probably the same reasons music is!), so it's not really worth arguing about, really.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I mean by the fact that if Sonic's cockiness has dire deadly consequences, they can of course make him act mournful, but only for so long. He can't be developed out of being Sonic. After a while he'll forget the mistake he's made and go back to being cocky and reckless, which seems like a big insult to the person or fraction he previously cost. It's at least slightly more justifiable if he keeps having near misses but if he's had many irreversible instances people have been hurt or even lost, it looks worse for him going back to that mistake. In Archie he's hasn't just had the usual light hearted nagging of friends like Sally, but also battle losses, deaths and even politics try to drop the anvil on his head what his recklessness or arrogance is costing him and many others he asks to depend on him, but of course, to be Sonic he still has to revert to old habits.

 

Being a jerk isn't a free pass either. It can if they were the ones who actually hindered Sonic in some way, but as you mentioned with Eggman, Sonic still has scruples and empathy, and they don't change just because he doesn't like the person in question.

Then I don't think you're understanding the deeper layers of Sonic's cockiness within the Archie Comics, or the circumstances of his mistakes. While I'm aware you don't like Archie Sonic, it still goes without saying that things are much deeper and multi-faceted than what you're condensing it to.

 

For one, it's not about developing him out of being Sonic, but to have him grow while staying Sonic. Development is not just about how much a character has changed, but also what has remained the same and how that can adapt to his changes. Being dynamic does mean a character is different than they initially were, but it doesn't mean they have to be completely different to the point of being a faint shadow of their former self. You can give Sonic wisdom, you can give him restraint, you can make him adaptable and give him greater utility, you can have him remember his mistakes and grow, but that does not mean it fully does away with his cocky attitude. His cockiness is as fluid as the shifting events that go on around him, and although Sonic can learn to control his arrogance, it can still manifest in other different ways given different circumstances. These are all one of many potential points of Sonic making mistakes sometimes due to arrogance and sometimes due to other factors while requiring him to deal with the aftermath, but at the same time there are many points to the strengths to Sonic's arrogance and other traits that lead him to crafting solutions.

 

For example, while he's currently not as arrogant like he was during events like House of Cards, he is still headstrong enough to challenge the Council of Acorn or go behind their back when they're being too stubborn to realize other threats that might grow into bigger problems. In the former example, his arrogance is made unsympathetic and as a detriment that causes problems, while in the latter it's made sympathetic, understandable, and used as a strength that fixes problems.

 

And even as the central character, Sonic is just one person in this massive breathing world. There are many people and circumstances are capable of such adaptations as well that can conflict and hinder him regardless of whether or not he learns from his mistakes, is being arrogant, or is even being nice, and sometimes they can make him inadvertently make new mistakes in the process. And depending on the circumstances, he may forget the mistake because the problem is already dealt with and/or a new one comes along and requires more of his attention. Sometimes it's because he doesn't see it as a mistake until the last second, which by then is too late and he has to deal with the new problems that ensue. Sometimes he forgets because a long time has passed since then and it simply never occurs to him - who doesn't potentially forget things over a long period of time? Sometimes he doesn't forget the mistake, but the situation is out of control regardless and he's put in an ultimatum or desperate situation that has the potential for more mistakes in the future. Sometimes, he doesn't forget the mistake, and he isn't put in a desperate situation, but the events also adapt to him and run counter to a learning lesson he made. And sometimes the mistake is because of the actual good parts of his character being taken advantage of, such where he shows empathy or remorse even when it probably wouldn't be best for him to do so. Even worse is the mistake that combines some or all of the above and makes a conga line of new mistakes that are only indirectly related that need to be handled, which is exceed by a mistake that does all that but wasn't truly his fault.

 

Point is, Sonic is fallible. As much as we love his strengths, he becomes a much robust character when put in and forged into the fire dealing with his mistakes and further builds his strengths, and a much more dimensional character when he's still caught off guard for a mistake he makes an attempt to avoid or fix or was out of his control no matter what. Doesn't mean there won't be any defects to that which might cause serious problems - there are many, many variables to many different mistakes and the results, and that's part of a breathing world with characters that have flaws or limits to their abilities or circumstances that shift their attention.

 

A big example where staying arrogant probably would have been the smart thing to do, as nice as it was for him to do so, it was big mistake for Sonic to show Eggman mercy after breaking his mind as he leaves him in Snively's care, but he didn't know that was a mistake since Eggman was too insane and incapable at the time to be a serious threat, and as far as Snively was concerned given how untrustworthy he is, there weren't any resources (due to Enerjak destroying Eggman's city and networks) that Sonic was aware Snively could use against him. By that point, everyone was sure they had beaten Eggman for good. But not only does it shock Sonic when he doesn't realize that his actions merely changed the leadership of the Eggman Empire to the Iron Dominion - or more specifically the Iron Queen - an enemy he's long forgotten about that has become much stronger than the last time he encountered them, but when that's dealt with his mistake in showing mercy continues to come back to bite him with Eggman resurfacing much more pragmatically and lethal than ever.

 

And that one mistake leads to a series of setbacks, one of which leads to a desperate bid to save the world at the cost of a close friend who's sacrifice he had no control over due to a distraction that was holding him off. And that sacrifice ends up using his reluctance against him to harm that close friend who is now enslaved by his nemesis, pushing him further back into a corner. Add to that a secretive plan by Eggman that Sonic was not aware of, that would lead to a warp in reality that now results in the shattering of the world as Dark Gaia is released in a restructure of Sonic's old world, and you've got one hell of a mess for one simple mistake. This one mistake Sonic made ended up leading into a chaotic spiral completely out of his control, although another unfortunate note to make is that even if he didn't make that mistake of showing mercy and immediately locked Eggman in prison back at New Mobotropolis, his lack of knowledge of Snively contacting to the Iron Dominion would have probably lead to this anyway given the circumstances that were going on. So  regardless, things would have gotten out of his hand anyway, whether arrogant or remorseful or even if he was careful, he would have still made a grave mistake that would cause major setbacks in the future.

 

But for anything Sonic loses, whether due to his arrogance or his benevolence, the opposite also rings true for what he gains and triumphs. For example, he loses Knothole Village as it gets wiped out by Eggman, loses the people living there to the Egg Grapes, and actually gets defeated in a climactic 1-on-1 fight against Eggman in his Egg Beater. Eggman takes full advantage of Sonic's arrogance throughout that event, and even enrages Sonic. But it gets turned around as he gains New Mobotropolis as a new home for him and everyone else he rescuse from the Egg Grapes, and gains a spectacular victory by working with his friends to gang up on the Egg Beater in a round 2. This time, Sonic takes advantage of his own arrogance as a psychological trick against Eggman to get him to do what he wants.

 

Sometimes his recklessness and cockiness benefits him just as much as it can hinder him, which leads to a cycle of Sonic being more or less arrogant given the events and tools at his disposal. Often that tool is simply throwing himself like a bullet at the problem, which usually works, or requires working with other people to position himself to throw himself like a bullet at a problem. And sometimes, he's working around the problem if brute force can't work. Given the variety of threats thrown at him where brute force does often work, the simplicity of such usually going in conjunction with Sonic's reckless or arrogant nature for solving them so simply, it's hard to fault him when it justifies his ego. But it just as easily backfires on him when the threat adapts to that to where that simple method would cause problems, and then it calls for Sonic to be more delicate, and vice versa.

 

And while Sonic has scruples and empathy, those two are as fluid in the cup as everything else, such the situation he's put in and the people he's dealing with. And yes, those do change depending on the person in question, Eggman also being one who it changed for because that empathy was used against Sonic and ended up costing him much more for it when Eggman became much more dangerous. Empathy and Sympathy are things a character is suppose to earn and maintain from those they want it from, not just from the audience but from other characters as well - it's certainly altruistic of Sonic to show empathy to his worst enemy when he is rendered insane, but given the crimes that enemy has done there's nothing wrong with Sonic refusing to give it and not care about Eggman's insanity. And he makes that very clear he never should have show Eggman mercy given that he was about to activate the World Robotizicer and potentially kill his cyborgs and knock civilizations like GUN back to the stone ages.

 

So when someone's a jerk to him, that's usually a complete free pass for Sonic not to give a damn depending on the circumstances. You can't say being a jerk isn't a free pass so generally, because that leaves no room for flexibility with the other traits connected to the character, ignoring where his arrogance or lack of sympathy to certain other characters is perfectly justified or events where such benefits him. it's a case-by-case thing, such as the cases I gave you; if Sonic tries to save the people, but his actions cost them their homes or loved ones, it's understandable for people to be angry or upset. But if Sonic is sorry for his failure to save everyone and everything, but still manages (or tries) to save who and what he can, acting like a jerk to him doesn't jeopardize the sympathy towards Sonic as far as the audience is concerned, it ruins it for the jerks giving him no respect for his attempt to help.

 

That's just an vague example, and the same applies for Sonic particularly if there's no understandable reason or circumstance for him to be upset and jerkish as well. But as Sonic typically has good and altruistic intentions even when that's juxtaposed with his worst traits - that heart of gold under all his arrogance - he maintains sympathy much more strongly than other characters. That sympathy to other characters changes with other character that are not so sympathetic especially when they lacking his good and altruistic intentions, and ones which we shouldn't blame Sonic for sabotaging or going against even if their fighting the same enemies, and especially if they're no better or possibly worse than their foes. That's a major reason why Sonic shows very little sympathy to characters like the Sand Blast Rebels, because they're total jerkasses even for the heroes standards. But that's also why Sonic lost sympathy for being the jerk he was in House of Cards, but gained it back over time.

 

All in all, sympathy is a two-way street that one not only has to earn and maintain, and part of maintaining it is reciprocating it - simply put, if you refuse to give sympathy to someone, you've no right to demand it from that person in return. That's also the whole idea of empathy, as you're putting yourself in that person's place to understand them, and a refusal to do so doesn't mean (often by default) you will get it in return.

[DBZHedgy]

Tails' father managed to rally an angry mob against the Acorns because he (And them evidently) were sick and tired of their failings. Daddy is promptly imprisoned. Tails sides with his father, is upset about his incarceration and is angered when Sonic jerkishly makes disparaging remarks about him despite him having only recently been reunited with his previously long-lost parents.

 

Tails decides to break his father out of prison himself in the middle of the night. Sonic is enlightened to this by NICOLE and makes his way to the prison himself before she can say who the perpetrator of the break-out is. When Sonic states that what dad is doing is treason and such and that Amadeus has to stay behind bars, he discounts Tails' mom's question about whether or not Tails would hold it against him because...well, I'll let Sonic say it;

 

 

Tails attacks him from behind and tells him to get over himself (Don't blame the fox kid personally). This leads to an even greater deepening of the tension and Sonic tells him to cut it out angrily. Tails refuses to, stating that he's had it coming for a long time. And that's what leads to Sonic assuring him that he'll give him a pounding.

Now THAT is how Sonic Lost World should have done it.

I mean, yea the continuity with Tails' parents aside, but other than that. That would be Perfect! And much better done as well.

 

I did not like that story however, Archie Sonic just really comes off the wrong way to me, he has all the self righteousness and obnoxiousness people complain about Pontac's Sonic but upped to eleven, and replacing the comedic setup with angst and melodrama. One could consider it worse since Sonic's arrogance in Archie has serious long lasting consequences on people, and he usually learns from it as successfully.

Honestly though, it's much better than the dry persona Pontac+Graff/Roger Sonic has come out to be. If you're gonna make Sonic a jerk, don't teeter on the edge of the fence and still claim that Sonic is much more upbeat or whatever. The Archie comics give a much clearer representation of what Post-Colors Sonic should be.

 

I would MUCH rather read the comics of the stories than actually sitting through the cutscenes of them in-game because of this.

(So... basically what ChaosIncarnate Said )

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I should note that I also don't like how House of Cards was written due to how forced some narrative points were (such as it's anticlimactic ending), and I'd just barely put the conflict between Sonic and Tails in that arc above their conflict in Lost World due to how much more justified Tails' attitude was in siding with his parents while Sonic opposed them, but then it shifts to girl problems they've had.

 

I wouldn't mind a Sonic vs. Tails conflict in the games, but I think we can do better than what was done in either of those stories.

[DBZHedgy]

As unlikely as it is since continuity is fairly light in Sonic, it'd be genuinely interesting to me to see him struggle with the urge to leap into action in certain situations if it could mean something going wrong. 

But uh... he already has...

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 most primarily.

Sonic 06 and Unleashed as well.

[Kuzu]

But uh... he already has...

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 most primarily.

Sonic 06 and Unleashed as well.

 

When, how, and why?

 

 

All four of these games never have Sonic doubt any of his actions, period.

[DBZHedgy]

When, how, and why?

 

 

All four of these games never have Sonic doubt any of his actions, period.

Sonic Adventure:

-Sonic Hesitates to take out the Robot when Amy tells him about his good intents.

-Sonic tries to quell Knuckles before fighting him (...eeehhhh)

-Sonic says "I hope you know what you're doing" when flying with the newly built tornado 2. Which implies that he wants Tails to be careful, with the Tornado.

-Instead of Jumping head first to defeat Chaos (Final Form) he seeks the advice of Tikal and his Friends, then becomes Super Sonic.

-Several Instances of the game feature Sonic listening to what Eggman says instead of fighting headfirst, like the first boss for example. He waits to hear his demands and when Eggman gets ready to fight, So does he.

 

Sonic Adventure 2:

To be honest there aren't and "moments" in there, and he does show signs of impatience rather often, however, when it's time to devise a plan, he contemplates as well, making sure to get the plan ready first instead of just jumping head first into the action I.E. After the Moon blows up, or when Tails, him, and Amy infiltrate the space colony ark.

 

Sonic 06:

I feel like I don't even have to say it, but under several circumstances, he Yields pretty easily, like when he's ready to spring into action when Eggman reveals Elise, but tells Sonic to hand over the emerald. 

Another instance is when he is going to kingdom valley, but stops to converse of things with Silver. 

 

Sonic Unleashed:

Sonic is actually pretty Laid Back in this game, so I wouldn't say this occurs too much in this game, but one moment, in particular is when he hides himself from Amy, because of his appearance, and her earlier reaction. He is seen moping around when chip confronts him about it as well.

[Kuzu]

I don't really think any of those moments are what he was referring to.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DBZHedgy]

Ah, in that case, my mistake.

[Celestia]

Actually, the part where Amy stopped Sonic from destroying Gamma works. He seems pretty reluctant to do it, but Amy's determination was enough to convince him, apparently. It's a bit tough to use the Adventures (mostly the first one) as examples/counter examples of characterization or writing due to translation issues, voice acting of early 3D games quality, etc., but that moment was very straightforward.

 

The moment with Tails and the Tornado-2 seems more like him being a bit reluctant to trust Tails not to crash again after what happened last time. As for the scene before Perfect Chaos, he did seem somewhat unsure about leaping into action, but IIRC at one point it was implied he was going to try fighting Chaos' final form in his normal state--before the option of Super Sonic was presented, obviously.

 

In SA2, Sonic does leap into a fight without really thinking whenever Shadow shows up (though they at least have something akin to a conversation before their final showdown), and seemed like he was about to do the same when the group runs into Eggman in the pyramid base, before the Golem showed up. It's only in terms of figuring out how to stop the Cannon that he's not really sure what to do and instead relies on Tails, and throughout the game it feels like the fox became the leader of the team, or at least the one who does all the thinking. Still, it's not exactly a case of Sonic having doubt in his actions in a dangerous situation, but simply...not knowing where to go or what to do next.

 

(Tails' leadership role is mostly ignored in the games afterwards for some reason, but could tie into how some early interviews implied Tails might not be in the game at all, indicating he may have been a "last minute"-y addition. Maybe Sonic would have done the planning...but who knows how much the story and plot changed during development. Interesting to think about, at least.)

 

The Unleashed example sorta works, it's not really about Sonic doubting his actions (which is what I was talking about), but he does seem unusually troubled after running into Amy as the Werehog.

 

...I guess Amy has this effect on him.

 

Tee hee.

[Osmium]

BUMP!!

Yeah, I know this topic hasn't been touched in a year, but it's about Sonic's ideal characterization so I guess I'll say a little. 

 

I think they should make Sonic more like how he was in the OVA, but keep him like how he was in Lost World. 

 

Sonic should have a temper that should be unleashed when something happens that he doesn't like, and he should get irritant when he gets bothered with something that he doesn't like, but this doesn't mean he should be a hot head like Knuckles oh god no. 

 

They should balance those traits with his more mellow traits. Sonic should be laid back and carefree normally, but getting impatient with something should be expected. 

 

I like some of his lines in Lost World. The "Kay, I didn't need your whole life story" line is one of my favourites from the game, and I think Sonic should have more of those kind of lines. It shows that Sonic can pull Tails' leg and not be overly mean spirited about it. Sonic and Tails should always be joking around. 

[100Rings]

Wildly funny to look back at all the dogged Lost World defending just to see all of the SLW issues manifested at peak volume in Forces.

Bitter, bitter irony.