Sonic's ideal characterization topic

[Your Vest Friend]

Nah, I personally saw -some- sign of it in Sonic and the Secret Rings. Then again, the entire game was based around mood rings, effectively...

[Piedemon]

Then they should stop saying that Sonic has a short temper in his bios when he rarely shows it.

[Jacky]

i actually don't really give two shits about sonic's personality, he could be a homosexual crack dealing zombie transexual bodybuilder alcoholic widowed vietnam survivor pirate hooker nazi with a talking vagina for all i care.

but the cocky-ass bro personality in Colors is probably the best written Sonikku ever.

i still want a homosexual crack dealing zombie transexual bodybuilder alcoholic widowed vietnam survivor pirate hooker nazi Sonic, with a talking vagina

sega it's time for a reboot

Edited October 13, 2011 by Doctor Jackstraw

[Flyboy Fox]

Oh, Sonic should definitely have a limit where he loses his cool after being pushed too far... like when his friends are being hurt, or serious injustice is occurring, or he feels completely powerless to do something... Even completely laid back and cool characters have a breaking point, if they're not entirely two-dimensional. But it shouldn't be a characteristic we expect from him. Rather, it's far more interesting when it's not a trait that he's known for, but it happens anyway because someone/thing went too far and managed to break down his usual calm, cool jokey exterior, even just briefly.

[DC111]

Was just talking to a friend about this on another website. Instead of typing up another variation of the same thing I always say to these kinds of topics, I'm just gonna copy/paste that, for the most part.

Well, let's start from the beginning. His personality in the classics is left mostly to the imagination, but I'd guess the classics and Adventure 1 would be pretty similar in that respect since Adventure kind of took a lot of elements from the classics as it was. That's stretching it a bit, but just theorizing. In Adventure 1, he was quite serious and impatient, implying he wasn't as laidback about the situation, and perhaps didn't have as QUITE as much confidence as we tend to see now. He actually saw Eggman as a threat, maybe because they weren't as familiar with each other as they are of late.

Then in Adventure 2 he relaxed a little more, with cocky comments like "What you see is what you get!" and (to Eggman) "Just letting Knuckles pilot the shuttle on the way over here was more dangerous than you could ever be." And he seemed more natural with his friends than before. He was still a BIT more serious and tense, and his trademark impatience was really apparent with Shadow since he felt like he was being imitated and belittled. And a rarity in the games: he doubts his own abilities when trying to escape the capsule. Showing that he really does doubt sometimes, and that he's not perfect, and he doesn't even SEE himself as perfect. He says, "But can I do this?" or rather, THINKS it, since he doesn't seem to admit weakness aloud. But it's enough to show us viewers how he really feels sometimes, and lets us know he's not one-dimensional.

Despite that moment, he is still very confident overall in the game, and actually SA2 is where he kinda became my favorite. Now, Sonic Heroes I liked, but I'mma skip it because there wasn't a huge story in that game, nor a great deal of character development. In Shadow the Hedgehog, which takes place plot-wise right after Adventure 2, Sonic is VERY upbeat, almost as if he's enjoying getting on Shadow's nerves, and always ready for anything. "Woohoo! Bring it on!" and "Time to rock and roll!" come to mind. (I know, I know.) Happy-go-lucky comments like that are all over that game, perhaps because of his dynamic with Shadow. Then in Sonic 2006, he's forced to calm down a little to put up with Elise (lol), so we get to see deeper aspects of him, like why he likes running so much, and his philosophies on life, blah blah blah... though not as much of the cocky badass side, which is somewhat disappointing. He's quite serious again, and always holds Shadow and Silver in a weird, over-dramatic, all-business expression. Like when he walks up to Shadow and points at him in the face and goes, "Don't be late. "

I must say I genuinely DO like some of his character in that game, like the whole running thing, and seeing a side of him that's not shown very often. But what irks me most about this game is that I can't even come up with anything mentally that JUSTIFIES how he acts when he's all serious. Hell, even with Colors you could pin his easygoing, somewhat one-dimensional attitude to the lighthearted, take-it-as-it-goes situation... because quite frankly the situation is one-dimensional in itself (or 'simple' if you prefer non-critical terminology). So on some level it makes sense. (Doesn't quite cut it for me, but hey.)

Then there's Unleashed. He had Dark Gaia's energy in him the whole time, he could have been influenced and taken over the WHOLE TIME, and we only find out near the end that he thinks Chip has been protecting him. Then Chip gives his whole speech about how awesome he thinks Sonic is and all that, and says that Sonic himself is the reason he never changed. Throughout Unleashed, Storybook and Colors, there is one thing quite consistent about Sonic: unrelenting self-confidence. Gets the point across that despite his semi-seriousness in the Adventures (especially the first one), Sonic has become used to sustained threat, used to problems... and it doesn't faze him or make him uptight like it did somewhat in the Adventures. He's become so used to it over the games/years that he embraces it. You could say that the writers probably didn't look that deep into it, and maybe they didn't, but it doesn't change the fact that it's THERE. Another thing that supports this is the nature of Sonic's and Eggman's dialogue. In the Adventures, you got a clear sense that they were enemies. More recently, even though they're still enemies, they speak casually. You can TELL they've known each other a long time, and have grown 'comfortable' with each other on some level. Developed a status quo. But I digress.

Sonic is one of those characters that you actually have to play more than one game to get the gist of his personality, I think. (...Unless that one game is Black Knight. *shot*) Say Sonic is bland all you want, but I just can't see it. Impatience (with situations or Amy), anger (at injustice), doubt (about causing Chaos Control with fake Emerald), depth (or whatever you wanna call it... his talks with Elise and Chip), fear (of water, allegedly), confidence (appears unfazed and calm about the life-arrow in Secret Rings, reassuring Shahra all the time, amongst other instances), determination (doesn't need explaining?), compassion (doesn't need explaining?), selfishness (likes his freedom and running and will ditch his friends occasionally to do so, not to mention running away from Amy), selflessness (would do anything to help others, if his battle with Merlina is anything to go by... though this could easily be pinned to selfishness as well come to think of it, since he makes it pretty clear he's fighting for his own beliefs. But, fighting for one's own beliefs doesn't necessarily mean they're selfish beliefs, so...).

So I guess where I'm going with this is that Sonic's ideal characterization lies somewhere in all of the above, with balance of more than one of those aspects. That was my problem with Sonic 2006, Colors, and Heroes to an extent. Seemed worse in Colors because it happened after Unleashed and Storybook, and Unleashed and Storybook raised the bar as far as I'm concerned. Not that Colors is inherently wrong, it's just that it's lacking the dimension that aforementioned games seemed to have.

Short version: Ideal Sonic characterization? Black Knight would be a basis. Unleashed, while maybe not quite as exciting in terms of characterization, had a lot of thought and reflection interwoven in it, without making it romantic dumb like Sonic 2006. Colors - when it wasn't joking around with itself - had natural, believable dialogue and nailed Sonic and Tails's friendship, and I'd love to see how they handle other character dynamics since the franchise needs more focus on relationships between characters anyway... but that's for another day. Black Knight overall + Secret Rings + Unleashed + Colors' casualness + 'It Doesn't Matter' = Sonic.

EDIT: Shorter version - I want plots built around characters, not characters built around plots. Whether that's a good idea or not, I don't know, but that's my ideal.

Another edit: Never mind the other part that was here before, I hadn't finished reading the topic yet. ^^;

Edited October 13, 2011 by DC111

[FoxTrax]

Sonic's ideal characterization: ANYTHING BUT WHAT IAN FLYNN IS WRITING. Issues 178-179 anyone?

The only way they could've made him worse in the comics is if he was a genocidal dictator that does heroin and rapes corpses for fun.

[iDEATH]

Obviously it's not game canon but i miss Sonic's personallity from the fleetway series.

I feel it was the most three dimensional version of Sonic we've seen. He still had theattitude from the games and wasvery much the hero, but at times he could be a downright prick. Especially to tails.

As for the games, I think Unleashed is probably the best, though i've never played the Wii games.

[Kuzu]

Obviously it's not game canon but i miss Sonic's personallity from the fleetway series.

I feel it was the most three dimensional version of Sonic we've seen. He still had theattitude from the games and wasvery much the hero, but at times he could be a downright prick. Especially to tails.

As for the games, I think Unleashed is probably the best, though i've never played the Wii games.

I fail to see how Sonic being a jackass makes him three dimensional? I understand he still cared about his friends despite his attitude towards them, but still sometimes its hard to tell when he spends most of his time insulting his best friend, it worse because no one ever calls him out on it.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Shadic93

[Vertekins]

I too am pretty bewildered by the short temper bit. If there's one aspect of Sonic that is the most consistent in terms of instruction manual bio's, it's his short-tempered side above all else. And yet it's hardly ever seen. You barely see Sonic acting angry or short-fused. By the insistence of this trait, you'd think he was a bonafide hot-head

However, I do think he was irritable in Sonic Adventure. But I thought that was mainly out of losing Emeralds to Eggman so frequently and the shit he has to put up with during his story (Chaos getting stronger, Knuckles attacking him for no reason, his precious Tornado getting annihilated by the Egg Carrier, Amy expecting him to be her bodyguard and being forced into going to Twinkle Park, losing her to Zero etc.) This is the most bad-tempered I've ever seen him act (From about 1:40 in);

He throws a very brief fit of anger, whirling his arms about angrily XD.

[DC111]

He was short-tempered in Sonic Adventure 2 with Shadow sometimes. And then after the shuttle lands. "What's up with that Knucklehead anyway, trying to take over the shuttle!" or something to that extent. Then there's Black Knight with Caliburn. Most of the time it's playful, but there are a few instances where I get the impression he was genuinely irked at Caliburn, one that comes to mind being "Well it's your fault! You're a sad excuse for a teacher!" amongst a few others.

Doesn't warrant the amount of times this trait is referred to in manuals, but still, it's there.

[Kuzu]

He was short-tempered in Sonic Adventure 2 with Shadow sometimes. And then after the shuttle lands. "What's up with that Knucklehead anyway, trying to take over the shuttle!" or something to that extent. Then there's Black Knight with Caliburn. Most of the time it's playful, but there are a few instances where I get the impression he was genuinely irked at Caliburn, one that comes to mind being "Well it's your fault! You're a sad excuse for a teacher!" amongst a few others.

Doesn't warrant the amount of times this trait is referred to in manuals, but still, it's there.

I wouldn't really call that having a temper, just being really annoyed is all.

[Vertekins]

He was short-tempered in Sonic Adventure 2 with Shadow sometimes. And then after the shuttle lands. "What's up with that Knucklehead anyway, trying to take over the shuttle!" or something to that extent. Then there's Black Knight with Caliburn. Most of the time it's playful, but there are a few instances where I get the impression he was genuinely irked at Caliburn, one that comes to mind being "Well it's your fault! You're a sad excuse for a teacher!" amongst a few others.

Doesn't warrant the amount of times this trait is referred to in manuals, but still, it's there.

Ah yes, I forgot about them.

The unlockable voice clips in SatBK called "KNAVE & KNIFE" were, come to think of it, very good at getting across Sonic's short-temperedness with Caliburn. Of course contributing to it was Jason's great voice acting. What sticks out is;

Caliburn: "I really hoped for more time to train you"

Sonic: "Yeah? Well I hoped for a better sword!"

However voice clips under "KNIGHT OF THE WIND AND SACRED SWORD" include lines never seen in the rest of the game including the final boss battle. I've never heard Excalibur-Sonic and Excalibur say these, no matter how long and how much I stay in/do the final boss battle. These show that Sonic was pretty pissed-off at Merlina but the reason as to why they weren't actually in the final boss are puzzling -

Excalibur-Sonic: "Merlina? How about we end this battle? It's really starting to bum me out."

Excalibur: "Yes. Sonic. Knight of the Wind. End this, once and for all"

Excalibur-Sonic: "I'm confused. Didn't you summon me to save this world in the first place?" (Note that Excalibur-Sonic says "Summon me" quite venomously)

Excalibur: "I beg to differ. She actually never knows when to stop!"

I ain't got access to my Wii at the 'mo and can't remember every single line they both say but quite a few of them indicated that Excalibur-Sonic was supposed to be pretty pissed in the final boss fight.

[Nitwit_Speed]

I've been thinking about this more and more lately, which is why i'm about to go over a lot of cutscenes on youtube to refresh myself on the aftermentioned plots to give you a better understanding of what i mean to say, but for now, all i have to say is that Black Knight Sonic just needs to be as loose and punchy as SA2 Sonic and you're gold.

[DC111]

However voice clips under "KNIGHT OF THE WIND AND SACRED SWORD" include lines never seen in the rest of the game including the final boss battle. I've never heard Excalibur-Sonic and Excalibur say these, no matter how long and how much I stay in/do the final boss battle. These show that Sonic was pretty pissed-off at Merlina but the reason as to why they weren't actually in the final boss are puzzling -

Excalibur-Sonic: "Merlina? How about we end this battle? It's really starting to bum me out."

Excalibur: "Yes. Sonic. Knight of the Wind. End this, once and for all"

Excalibur-Sonic: "I'm confused. Didn't you summon me to save this world in the first place?" (Note that Excalibur-Sonic says "Summon me" quite venomously)

Excalibur: "I beg to differ. She actually never knows when to stop!"

Heh, the only voice clips I actually bothered to unlock WERE the Knave/Knife and Knight of the Wind/Sacred Sword ones. Was totally worth it though, 'cause you can't find those clips anywhere online. Really increases the value of unlockables. =) But yeah, I was really surprised to hear those, particularly the "It's really bumming me out" bit. It's like he took Merlina's betrayal to heart, not to mention he probably doesn't like having to hurt her, especially since she believes her intentions are good.

Some of the Knave and Knife ones I don't recall hearing in the actual game either, but I just might not have encountered them.

[FoxTrax]

I know this seems a little off topic, but I feel that I must elaborate on how Sonic's characterization has been brutally tortured under the pen of Ian Flynn. Here is an abridged list of things that Sonic has done on Flynn's deplorable run:

• Shacked up with Tails' crush, Fiona, for absolutely no reason other than to be a dick towards his best friend
  
• Leaned back and smiled while Amy and Fiona were in a catfight (true story, I swear to Time Eater)
  
• Openly criticized Tails' parents (for DARING to form a democracy and break from the <sarcasm>GLORIOUS</sarcasm> rule of Princess Sally) while standing right next to him, and then not apologizing. At all.
  
• Later that issue, got into an actual fight with Tails for DARING to break his parents loose from jail (I'm 112% positive that if this were the games universe, Sonic would've supported Tails completely)
  
• And the next issue, acted like a coward-baby-sissy-pants when Tails had him pinned down
  
• Picked random fights with his "friends"
  
• Walked headlong into a truce with the guy he had just defeated, like, two issues ago
  
• Was a real dick to NICOLE during that whole mess involving her (Then again, so was almost everyone else)
  
• Did not develop character ONE IOTA in the past four years, is still a smug jackass with little redeeming factors
  

This DeviantArt post goes more into detail: http://foxtrax.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d40fmic

Yes, I wrote it.

[Mangoaxe5]

My favorite version of Sonic is Satam and Archie.

I don't like Sonic's personality in the games. I find it to be lame.

Look how cool I am! I live free! Look how cool I am! No one can tell me what to do. Look how cool I am! I do what I think is right. Look how cool I am!

It seems like Sega tries too hard to make him sound cool.

I really don't understand Sega Sonic.

Satam Sonic and Archie Sonic I understand, and I understand why those versions of Sonic hate Robotnik.

[Kuzu]

My favorite version of Sonic is Satam and Archie.

I don't like Sonic's personality in the games. I find it to be lame.

It seems like Sega tries too hard to make him sound cool.

I really don't understand Sega Sonic.

Satam Sonic and Archie Sonic I understand, and I understand why those versions of Sonic hate Robotnik.

Hes also a jackhole who dates his best friend's girlfriend just because, and really? Sega Sonic tries hard to be cool? Have you've been reading the same book? Sonic spouts off just as many one liners as he does in the games, yet hes the lame one? Double Standard Much.

[Solkia]

Kind of a jokester, but serious when the situation calls for it.

[Vertekins]

If there's any Sonic that is annoyingly and cringeworthily forced when it comes to his so-called "Coolness", it's SatAM/Archie Sonic. Who is BY FAR the worst offender.

SatAM Sonic was spouting such drivel as "Mondo this" and "Mondo that", "Way past cool" and many more face-palmingly awful lines, all in the name of the "Mascot with Attitude" archetype he pioneered in the Western world. Exaggerated traits not seen in Sonic in the games of the time or even from the Sonic characterized in the games after that.

Archie Sonic, when he's not acting like the village whore and bending over backwards for that Mary Sue Sally Acorn is cracking pathetic one-liners in the face of Enerjak-Knuckles whilst the latter has him by the throat. There's a time and a place for humor. Namely times where it doesn't detract from the situation or paint Sonic as someone who doesn't take the situation as seriously as he ought to.

[Your Vest Friend]

Curious about something now; what do you lot make of AoStH Sonic's characterisation? I only ever see SatAM or Sonic X or the OVA referenced for cartoon media characterisation stuff (unless Psi gets involved).

[FoxTrax]

Curious about something now; what do you lot make of AoStH Sonic's characterisation?

[Octarine]

SatAM Sonic was spouting such drivel as "Mondo this" and "Mondo that", "Way past cool" and many more face-palmingly awful lines, all in the name of the "Mascot with Attitude" archetype he pioneered in the Western world. Exaggerated traits not seen in Sonic in the games of the time or even from the Sonic characterized in the games after that.

[sonfan1984]

My favorite version of Sonic is Satam and Archie.

I don't like Sonic's personality in the games. I find it to be lame.

[Aquaslash]

cracking pathetic one-liners in the face of Enerjak-Knuckles whilst the latter has him by the throat.

[Kuzu]

I actually found that whole exchange to be incredibly badass, and one of the reasons I preferred the comic incarnation up until Colors.