Moderating Issues that I Feel Need to Be Addressed

[Dark Qiviut]

Good morning.

This is something that's been with me for a long time now. I usually don't say it aloud, and I've talked about this to some members here (including one time in the status box while the mods were asleep). Personally, due to the way things are out of control lately, I'm up to here *swipes finger across nose*, and I think it's time to relieve some frustrations.

It's the moderating.

My issues are these.

1. Almost all the mods don't communicate Sonic on here. This is the Sonic Stadium Message Board. We mostly discuss areas about the Sonic series here, with some smaller sections like Computer Games, Off-Topic, and PD below it. However, unless a report is sent, we don't see the mods or admins going around the Sonic forums at all. Unless it's lip service, I see absolutely no one that helps moderate this forum just discuss about Sonic one bit. They're usually in the top two subforums or the bottom two subforums. Nowhere in the middle, period. Like it or not, that's actually a huge issue for people like myself. The mods/admins don't really communicate stuff of Sonic on here. The only ones who do are Carbo (who isn't as active there anymore), Dizney, and Flyboy Fox (although mostly for Archie). Dreadknux, Roarey Raccoon, bmn, and Chris are almost never active on the Sonic-centered boards. I'm active on the main Sonic Discussion board. Because most of the staff couldn't care less about Sonic anymore, whenever I see their names pop on the bottom, I wonder if something went wrong, and that's it. I get absolutely no other impression that they want to get involved in the actual conversation of the topic. When I made my topic analyzing the atmospheres of Adventure, SA2, SNG, and SU HD, Sean's name appeared, and I thought I did something stupid. I received no other thought, and I was actually relieved when he left the thread.

2. At times, the mods and admins are asleep or inactive. There are admins living in the U.S. and many areas across Europe. Mostly, they're on at specific times. The NA staff are usually on from about 9 AM to 10 PM. The European staff are on from around 4 AM to around 4 PM. There's a gap where they're not on the SSMB, leaving this place not moderated. Here, it's relatively large, and there are plenty who live in other parts of the globe, especially New Zealand, Australia, South Korea, Russia (covering both Asia and Europe), and Japan collectively. While there isn't much activity during the late hours EST, there is some. But when a rule is bent or broken, the staff isn't around at all. Sometimes, I see no staff moderating the forums from 7 PM to my bedtime at 9-10 PM. It's not around-the-clock, as it SHOULD.

3. Most of the mods' behaviors when presenting their lip service are absolutely terrible! I don't mind cursing or whatnot here, but only when they're done in jest or out of humor. But when giving reminders, there's no excuse. Saying "we're human" doesn't cut it. Do we get frustrated? Absolutely. I speak of this as a former admin myself. But that leaves absolutely no excuse to consistently act like a sailor when warning people here. It's a terrible attitude. You guys are staffers. You're supposed to be an example to the members here. The way you express yourselves authoritatively reflects on us and vice-versa. As you guys patrol this forum, you set an example and a much higher standard. The way many of you warn people (by acting like you're angry or annoyed all the time and cursing your heads off like someone with Tourette's Syndrome) does nothing except drive possible newcomers away. Once is okay, like what happened with the Status fiasco in late-July while I was in the Caribbean. But that's once. The behavior has repeated and at times has gone worse. That's not being frustrated. That's using frustration as merely a half-baked excuse and makes me wonder whether some of you should actually attend anger management therapy. With the exception of two mods, I don't respect any of you mods here. Instead, I fear you. I don't trust you. By being very so forceful, you guys are demanding that respect. That's not how you get it. You don't demand respect. You earn it. And with the behavior some of you have presented, you don't deserve one ounce of respect from me. Do you want your fellow members to feel like you need to be a pushover just to get respect, or not?

What I propose are these.

1. When warning, display more courtesy and better behavior. The way you guys write your reminders and warnings reflect the way we behave. You want us to lead by association. You set an example by behaving more professionally. The more professional your behavior, I guarantee you that we'll possibly behave more professionally in return. Cursing is okay, but out of humorous purposes only. In addition, doing so shows respect towards your fellow members and vice-versa. We want to respect you, not fear you.

2. Have mods become more involved in Sonic-based conversations. The lack of moderators and admins discussing Sonic-related stuff makes the forum very disjointed. I don't want to go to the Sonic-centered subforums and constantly see mods or admins come in only to display lip service. I want them to discuss Sonic the Hedgehog, too! The lack of proper civil communication between mods and admins is disturbing and makes me surprised that this board still runs. In the New York City Transit Forums, the mods constantly participate in transportation-related and New York City-centered discussions. Coming over just for lip service is rare. The mods there have a lot of respect because they're very active in conversation. That means dealing with discussions in anything transportation, whether it's the MTA, Amtrak, NJ Transit, or whatever. But they're active and post there almost everyday, and cursing when giving warnings is much more minimal compared to here. That means more respect, and more respect means better communication.

3. A better method of getting people to see reminders. If there's excess baggage going on, and you want to put in a post telling people to cut it out, and if you feel people aren't going to see, lock the topic temporarily and put in a post dictating so. How long? I don't know, but I'm going to say about ten to twenty minutes just to cool some people down. Then, once the excitement quiets, unlock the topic, and the discussion can resume.

4. If you feel frustrated when posting a warning, don't post yet. Write the post. Step away for a few minutes to cool off. Then come back and reread it. Think about the consequences of your post. Not just in the forum, but in the future, too. Our handles and posts are connected to the Internet forever. It's possible they can be connected to a Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, or LinkedIn page. Your reputation here hits there and vice-versa. Say that you're going to apply for a job, and the Human Resources Department, interviewer, or whatever decides to check your background by Googling your name. Your attitude presented, if the way your present your authority here gets connected to your FB, YT, Twitter, LI, or MySpace page, can have consequences. They may not hire you because they believe you guys can't control your own temper and, thus, consider yourselves unfitting towards that company. We're getting older by the day, and that means we need to apply for a job someday. Like ourselves, you guys especially need to show more discipline because your actions influence us, especially when delivering lip service. Think before you post a reminder and consider us members' shoes to go with it! Remember, the minute you hit "send" or "post," the world will see it. The Internet is one huge database.

5. More around-the-clock moderating. The gap is large, especially since we have plenty of members here who live around the globe. We need at least one moderator from another part of the globe that can keep an eye on this place while those from the Americas and Europe are sleeping.

As of now, I don't know what else to say, so I'll end my post here.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[PSI Wind]

I don't really see how a message board that has Sonic in it's name HAS to be mostly about the Sonic franchise.

[Jeffhog]

Your 3rd proposal's already been put in use just recently, just to say. When things got a bit too overexcited in the modern demo thread, long after the Previews thread was shut, I think it was locked for about an hour, though I wasn't on the whole time while this was going on, so I'm not too sure how long exactly.

Though you do raise a few interesting points.

EDIT: I'll have to agree with PSI Wind. Sure it's a Sonic board, but not everyone's so hellbent on it. Some mods are more involved than others, so I don't really see much of a generalization. I don't think that I wasn't really around long enough to see all the mods at work either. But if there's one thing I do agree on: it's time zones and online moderator activity when it comes to absences.

Edited October 20, 2011 by VizardJeffhog

[Blue Wisp]

I do agree that if all the staff are from North America/Europe then the time zones will be a bitch. Even if there's one staff online at a time the forum is too big.

Otherwise it's perfectly fine at it is.

blue wisp 4 staff

[Carbo]

I'm tired, battered and had a shit day, so I'm only going to address a few points that stuck out in this essay post of yours.

1. Mods aren't talking about Sonic etc

I'm sorry DQ - I have literally no interest in both spending above 14 hours on the boards of my waking time having to clean up for the mess that members cause as of recent and also having to actively partake in every single discussion that's going on when I already have the SSMB tab open on my browser 24/7. As hard as it is to imagine, I have a life to tend to. I have resits to take because I spend too much of my time here. I have exams to look forward to. I am going on a concert tour in a week. I have a winter job to prepare to. I'm fed up with people insisting that I, or other staff, don't care for the boards because we don't join in on fan subject of the week #331, when I spend what little free time I have possible to actually tending to the board matters while I should really take care of my real life priorities. I can't speak for the entirety of the other staff, but most of the Admins are people who have actual full-time jobs to tend to, not to mention, Dreadknux and a few others are heavily active in orchestrating things for the board, along with the Summer of Sonic. bmn and Chris are as active as ever behind the scenes and the Admins are mostly only in charge of taking care of the main site, handling its upkeep and keeping it updated.

That said, some mods like Remy have said that they're trying to assume some more activity down there. We're trying to be as invested as possible. PSI also put it best, just cause this is a Sonic based board doesn't mean that all we're in here for is Sonic, and a lot of staff try to keep their involvement in actual arguments minimal just so biases don't color off, as we do want to try setting better examples. Which also leads me to your next point,

3. Stop cursing and scaring twelve year olds

This point, I also have a problem with, because at the end of a rough day when this entire essay that is painful to read without having some sort of summary is presented, it comes off as an entire backward notion to the idea that people want a "stricter regulation". Believe me, everyone here is trying their damndest lately to be as cool as possible. Sean in particular, who has lately been pretty fed up with his presumed status as "most disliked mod", has tried to be as lenient as possible with a lot of his judgments, but like everything else here that's happened as of recent days, a lot of stuff falls on deaf ears. In the modern demo topic, he gave members three verbal warnings before actually striking. Not once were those ever acting the way you described it, and when a mod goes to a topic telling people calmly to cut spam out, what kind of proper "etiquette" is it for a member to respond with a lame attempt at justifying spam? Members are sick of it, staff are sick of it. If sugarcoating isn't going to get the point across, you can forget about us playing nice to catch.

God, I'm tired.

FYI no we're not going to get more mods right now. We've come to the conclusion that there's neither need or anyone qualified to get a seat at this moment of time.

[Solkia]

I like it the way it is. Go to some other forums and you'll have a brand new appriciation of how this place is moderated.

[KittyNakajima]

I agree with most of what you said, especially the toning down of the foul mouthed lip service. I can only think of one admin who regularly does that when warning/banning folks or locking topics here, and I have to say it doesn't make me respect or approve of such methods, even if was meant as humor. Also find it hypocritical when they've put in that rule about not poking fun at/bringing up the bans of others interforum or not. It's almost like "do as I say, not what I do". People are going to either see or remember instances like that then wonder why such a rule should apply to them.

That said, I have to say that it's not feasible to have an admin on all the time. That would be ideal, yes, but it's often not possible. The fact that they have at least one or two admins on at any given time during a twenty four hour period is a heck of a lot better than some places. You also have to take into account that each admin has their own life outside of the forum, so some might be on sparingly compared to others.

I also have to say that not everyone wants to discuss Sonic all the time, which is why we have subforums such as Chit Chat and Computer Games. I myself tend to lurk in the Chit Chat forum more than anywhere else in the forum these days since it's a break from the typical Sonic topic. I tend to debate a lot whenever I'm in a Sonic topic, so the fact that this board actually has a non-Sonic specific section means I can step away and take a breather from it.

Edited October 20, 2011 by KittyNakajima

[Indigo Rush]

To be fair, the moderators usually do try their darndest to be polite about rule-breaking and whatnot. Things have just been so off the wall lately that they've had to step up the standards. Heck, I just got off of my week long suspension for goofing up. It's totally understandable, though, we don't want our forums to become spammy.

I do find your assessment on the mods not really participating in Sonic discussion interesting, though. It's true, whenever I see a moderator in a topic regarding Sonic, I immediately wonder who done goofed and if the topic is being locked or not. It's like the yellow/orange text is a symbol of fear, almost. I know this isn't the case for everyone, but... for the most part I don't think I know what anyone besides Flyboy and maybe Patticus feel or like about the Sonic games. I can understand the Dreadster, he's got a job over at Spong and has a lot on his plate running the entire Sonic Stadium, not just the forums... I don't know if I can say that for the other mods, though. I'd like to see them talk with us about Sonic matters without the motive being that of whipping us in line.

EDIT: Reading Carbo's post was pretty insightful, actually. I still feel, however, that there's some disconnect. I can't quite put my finger on it, though.

That's how I feel about it, anyway. I don't really have much to say about the other comments. I do love our moderators to death, they put a lot of work into the forums, and for that they have my respect.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Jeffhog]

Welp, Carbo nailed it.

And I don't think the mods are foulmouthed 12 year olds.. At least I don't think they behave like that. They're doing pretty good.

Also, KittyNakajima, I love your avy. xD

[Sean]

1. Almost all the mods don't communicate Sonic on here. This is the Sonic Stadium Message Board. We mostly discuss areas about the Sonic series here, with some smaller sections like Computer Games, Off-Topic, and PD below it. However, unless a report is sent, we don't see the mods or admins going around the Sonic forums at all. Unless it's lip service, I see absolutely no one that helps moderate this forum just discuss about Sonic one bit. They're usually in the top two subforums or the bottom two subforums. Nowhere in the middle, period. Like it or not, that's actually a huge issue for people like myself. The mods/admins don't really communicate stuff of Sonic on here. The only ones who do are Carbo (who isn't as active there anymore), Dizney, and Flyboy Fox (although mostly for Archie). Dreadknux, Roarey Raccoon, bmn, and Chris are almost never active on the Sonic-centered boards. I'm active on the main Sonic Discussion board. Because most of the staff couldn't care less about Sonic anymore, whenever I see their names pop on the bottom, I wonder if something went wrong, and that's it. I get absolutely no other impression that they want to get involved in the actual conversation of the topic. When I made my topic analyzing the atmospheres of Adventure, SA2, SNG, and SU HD, Sean's name appeared, and I thought I did something stupid. I received no other thought, and I was actually relieved when he left the thread.

2. Have mods become more involved in Sonic-based conversations. The lack of moderators and admins discussing Sonic-related stuff makes the forum very disjointed. I don't want to go to the Sonic-centered subforums and constantly see mods or admins come in only to display lip service. I want them to discuss Sonic the Hedgehog, too! The lack of proper civil communication between mods and admins is disturbing and makes me surprised that this board still runs. In the New York City Transit Forums, the mods constantly participate in transportation-related and New York City-centered discussions. Coming over just for lip service is rare. The mods there have a lot of respect because they're very active in conversation. That means dealing with discussions in anything transportation, whether it's the MTA, Amtrak, NJ Transit, or whatever. But they're active and post there almost everyday, and cursing when giving warnings is much more minimal compared to here. That means more respect, and more respect means better communication.

Sorry to be blunt here but what's the big deal if mods don't post in Sonic threads or not? Maybe we're here because we're interested in the community in general and not because of one single interest. I don't know why it seems to be a running joke for members to complain about mods not liking Sonic enough. We have lives to deal with, a moderating job to attend to at any given time at our convenience and in our free time, and to be honest, with all the hard work we put into our jobs which give us no payoff in any way (except when we hang out in the staff forum and the clothes go flying off), to see several members honestly complain about us not posting in the Sonic sections enough in our own leisure really, really feels like a waste of our time. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, this is the one complaint I hate seeing all the time. I have very little interest in going into the Sonic forum more often than not, because I am not interested in the discussions. I'm interested in talking about other things. I'm no longer the obsessive Sonic fan I once was and I literally have nothing to say about things like Heroes's storyline, what to do with Shadow's character, or talk about any of the older games anymore. I'm not even heavily interested in Sonic Generations, and you expect me to have to go in that forum just to keep up the appearance of a mod who's into Sonic? I'll go in there when I have to, and if there's nobody in there who's breaking the rules, I'll go in there when I want to, thanks.

It's also really funny how you're so afraid of me that seeing my name instills fear into you. I guess just the sight of my name alone can penetrate even the most hardened of souls.

2. At times, the mods and admins are asleep or inactive. There are admins living in the U.S. and many areas across Europe. Mostly, they're on at specific times. The NA staff are usually on from about 9 AM to 10 PM. The European staff are on from around 4 AM to around 4 PM. There's a gap where they're not on the SSMB, leaving this place not moderated. Here, it's relatively large, and there are plenty who live in other parts of the globe, especially New Zealand, Australia, South Korea, Russia (covering both Asia and Europe), and Japan collectively. While there isn't much activity during the late hours EST, there is some. But when a rule is bent or broken, the staff isn't around at all. Sometimes, I see no staff moderating the forums from 7 PM to my bedtime at 9-10 PM. It's not around-the-clock, as it SHOULD.

Thanks boss. Seriously, is this like something we have to constantly attend to no matter what real life matters or personal mood calls for? I repeat, being a moderator is a thankless job and we sacrifice our free time just to maintain this place. We have enough people handling the boards when they're available and while we do our best to ensure that at least a few mods are on per day, not only do we have lives to attend to, but we can't just up and hire new mods simply to keep these very small empty spots filled, considering we are not looking into making new mods, and frankly I don't think that anybody on the board is even eligible at the current moment. I have a better idea than having mods patrol the boards 24/7, how about you members just behave yourselves and report whenever you see trouble? We'll see the reports when we can get to them, so chill out. Seriously, these are two hours you're complaining about right here. We're not your parents and most of you have been here long enough to know how the forum works, so I think you can handle yourselves for two hours.

3. Most of the mods' behaviors when presenting their lip service are absolutely terrible! I don't mind cursing or whatnot here, but only when they're done in jest or out of humor. But when giving reminders, there's no excuse. Saying "we're human" doesn't cut it. Do we get frustrated? Absolutely. I speak of this as a former admin myself. But that leaves absolutely no excuse to consistently act like a sailor when warning people here. It's a terrible attitude. You guys are staffers. You're supposed to be an example to the members here. The way you express yourselves authoritatively reflects on us and vice-versa. As you guys patrol this forum, you set an example and a much higher standard. The way many of you warn people (by acting like you're angry or annoyed all the time and cursing your heads off like someone with Tourette's Syndrome) does nothing except drive possible newcomers away. Once is okay, like what happened with the Status fiasco in late-July while I was in the Caribbean. But that's once. The behavior has repeated and at times has gone worse. That's not being frustrated. That's using frustration as merely a half-baked excuse and makes me wonder whether some of you should actually attend anger management therapy. With the exception of two mods, I don't respect any of you mods here. Instead, I fear you. I don't trust you. By being very so forceful, you guys are demanding that respect. That's not how you get it. You don't demand respect. You earn it. And with the behavior some of you have presented, you don't deserve one ounce of respect from me. Do you want your fellow members to feel like you need to be a pushover just to get respect, or not?

1. When warning, display more courtesy and better behavior. The way you guys write your reminders and warnings reflect the way we behave. You want us to lead by association. You set an example by behaving more professionally. The more professional your behavior, I guarantee you that we'll possibly behave more professionally in return. Cursing is okay, but out of humorous purposes only. In addition, doing so shows respect towards your fellow members and vice-versa. We want to respect you, not fear you.

I don't see what the issue here considering none of the mods sprinkle curse words every other word and use it sparingly when warning members. Trust me, I especially have to hold back enough as it is, and I frequently revise my posts before (and sometimes after) I make them so that they don't seem as harsh given the scenario, but I honestly think the level we do it at currently is fine and is no reason to be alarmed. We allow cursing to some degree on this board just as long as it isn't spammed. And no it's not what you call a terrible attitude, considering we never insult members or reflect an attitude beyond what the given situation is; I'm not going to bark at people for committing minor offenses, but I will when they do something incredibly idiotic like jump into a flame war or talk back when given warnings. Spare cursing has absolutely nothing to do with "standards" to be set for members so I would truly appreciate it if you didn't tell us how to do our job just because you were once an admin on a board that certainly is not SSMB. By the way, look up Tourette's Syndrome, you'll find that it isn't what you think it is.

3. A better method of getting people to see reminders. If there's excess baggage going on, and you want to put in a post telling people to cut it out, and if you feel people aren't going to see, lock the topic temporarily and put in a post dictating so. How long? I don't know, but I'm going to say about ten to twenty minutes just to cool some people down. Then, once the excitement quiets, unlock the topic, and the discussion can resume.

Yeah we did this the other day already so thanks.

4. If you feel frustrated when posting a warning, don't post yet. Write the post. Step away for a few minutes to cool off. Then come back and reread it. Think about the consequences of your post. Not just in the forum, but in the future, too. Our handles and posts are connected to the Internet forever. It's possible they can be connected to a Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, or LinkedIn page. Your reputation here hits there and vice-versa. Say that you're going to apply for a job, and the Human Resources Department, interviewer, or whatever decides to check your background by Googling your name. Your attitude presented, if the way your present your authority here gets connected to your FB, YT, Twitter, LI, or MySpace page, can have consequences. They may not hire you because they believe you guys can't control your own temper and, thus, consider yourselves unfitting towards that company. We're getting older by the day, and that means we need to apply for a job someday. Like ourselves, you guys especially need to show more discipline because your actions influence us, especially when delivering lip service. Think before you post a reminder and consider us members' shoes to go with it! Remember, the minute you hit "send" or "post," the world will see it. The Internet is one huge database.

You seemed to be concerned with the sense of self-doubt that you're forcing onto the moderators here rather than... well, anything important or related to this thread of conversation, so to me this sounds a lot like some kind of self-help advice, which none of us really want concerning our jobs. And I can safely say that I really don't care whether someone from the great internet yonder finds and reads my warnings against members here considering they aren't rule breaking or hypocritical, and I sure don't regret them if the member in question needed a harsh tone just to get the point across to him or her. The mods aren't breaking rules here nor are we setting out to make a negative image for ourselves, and we remain as level headed as we possibly can, and believe me we have to hold back more than you give us credit for, so anything beyond that is really none of your concern. So thanks, but no thanks.

5. More around-the-clock moderating. The gap is large, especially since we have plenty of members here who live around the globe. We need at least one moderator from another part of the globe that can keep an eye on this place while those from the Americas and Europe are sleeping.

We're not fucking getting new mods.

[Roarey Raccoon]

Oh piss off, the mods here are fantastic and you're all lucky to have them. I'm not talking about myself, because I hardly do anything these days (guess I'm pretty jaded after 7 years huh) but what I can say is this forum is vastly better than it used to be and the staff genuinely care about what they're doing and who they're doing it to. Staff regularly feel like crap because they think they've done something wrong. That's passion and it's often hard to find. The SSMB mods are the best I've seen anywhere.

I also feel the need to emphasise that moderating isn't a job, it's a volunteer position. The only payment is satisfaction whenever you can get it, which on the internet isn't too often! Mods are not going to step back and take a breather before they say something angry. If they're pissed off they will say so and if it's a duty for mods to think about their decisions it's also a duty for members to be considerate of the feelings of staff, rather than just judge them to be insufferable cocks because they're stressed out. Mods will abuse their authority, they will bite you if you antagonise them, they will go apeshit from time to time. It's a predictable consequence of authority and responsibility. Learn to anticipate it or start paying them wages.

One more thing. I don't post in the Sonic topics because, frankly, I'm embarrassed just to read them most of the time XP. The shit some people get inflamed about is ridiculous to me. It's because I see the anger and passion as ridiculous that I know I'm not enough of a fan to get involved. Staff are here to keep the site functional, don't expect them to read and contribute to your discussions, because they're awful.

[Kuzu]

Yeah I dunno know about you, but I like the fact that I can come onto a Sonic Forum, but actually talk about other things. ITs a Sonic Forum, but that doesn't it has to be all about Sonic.

[Aquaslash]

1. Almost all the mods don't communicate Sonic on here. This is the Sonic Stadium Message Board. We mostly discuss areas about the Sonic series here, with some smaller sections like Computer Games, Off-Topic, and PD below it. However, unless a report is sent, we don't see the mods or admins going around the Sonic forums at all. Unless it's lip service, I see absolutely no one that helps moderate this forum just discuss about Sonic one bit. They're usually in the top two subforums or the bottom two subforums. Nowhere in the middle, period. Like it or not, that's actually a huge issue for people like myself. The mods/admins don't really communicate stuff of Sonic on here. The only ones who do are Carbo (who isn't as active there anymore), Dizney, and Flyboy Fox (although mostly for Archie). Dreadknux, Roarey Raccoon, bmn, and Chris are almost never active on the Sonic-centered boards. I'm active on the main Sonic Discussion board. Because most of the staff couldn't care less about Sonic anymore, whenever I see their names pop on the bottom, I wonder if something went wrong, and that's it. I get absolutely no other impression that they want to get involved in the actual conversation of the topic. When I made my topic analyzing the atmospheres of Adventure, SA2, SNG, and SU HD, Sean's name appeared, and I thought I did something stupid. I received no other thought, and I was actually relieved when he left the thread.

I missed the part that said the mods HAD to be active in every Sonic topic ever. Maybe, just maybe they're not that into the franchise but still qualify for moderator positions.

2. At times, the mods and admins are asleep or inactive. There are admins living in the U.S. and many areas across Europe. Mostly, they're on at specific times. The NA staff are usually on from about 9 AM to 10 PM. The European staff are on from around 4 AM to around 4 PM. There's a gap where they're not on the SSMB, leaving this place not moderated. Here, it's relatively large, and there are plenty who live in other parts of the globe, especially New Zealand, Australia, South Korea, Russia (covering both Asia and Europe), and Japan collectively. While there isn't much activity during the late hours EST, there is some. But when a rule is bent or broken, the staff isn't around at all. Sometimes, I see no staff moderating the forums from 7 PM to my bedtime at 9-10 PM. It's not around-the-clock, as it SHOULD.

Maybe if the members had some restraint and we're acting like total dumbasses most of the time, this wouldn't be too much of a problem. Besides, there are report and ignore functions.

3. Most of the mods' behaviors when presenting their lip service are absolutely terrible! I don't mind cursing or whatnot here, but only when they're done in jest or out of humor. But when giving reminders, there's no excuse. Saying "we're human" doesn't cut it. Do we get frustrated? Absolutely. I speak of this as a former admin myself. But that leaves absolutely no excuse to consistently act like a sailor when warning people here. It's a terrible attitude. You guys are staffers. You're supposed to be an example to the members here. The way you express yourselves authoritatively reflects on us and vice-versa. As you guys patrol this forum, you set an example and a much higher standard. The way many of you warn people (by acting like you're angry or annoyed all the time and cursing your heads off like someone with Tourette's Syndrome) does nothing except drive possible newcomers away. Once is okay, like what happened with the Status fiasco in late-July while I was in the Caribbean. But that's once. The behavior has repeated and at times has gone worse. That's not being frustrated. That's using frustration as merely a half-baked excuse and makes me wonder whether some of you should actually attend anger management therapy. With the exception of two mods, I don't respect any of you mods here. Instead, I fear you. I don't trust you. By being very so forceful, you guys are demanding that respect. That's not how you get it. You don't demand respect. You earn it. And with the behavior some of you have presented, you don't deserve one ounce of respect from me. Do you want your fellow members to feel like you need to be a pushover just to get respect, or not?

These mods are pretty docile TBH. You could try posting this at Sonic Retro and you'd likely be told to fuck off right from the get go. In fact, I am actively resisting the urge to say just that because that last little bit really got on my nerves.

[Meow]

I'll probably regret jumping in on this but here we go. I do want to make the point here though that I do think the mods do a great job in general around here and for the most part are really easy to approach once you've gotten to be around here for a bit and know how they do things

Anyway, Dark Quivit, I disagree with every one of your points except for one, which is the use of swearing/attitude when warning members/giving out strikes/whatever else. I can already see a few posts in here that simply rub me the wrong way because of the language used, and it illustrates the point I think quite well. The mods do a great job, don't get me wrong, but there are definitely ways to be strict without cursing your head off. My parents were strict on me as a kid, but it was stern and done with authority, my Dad never had to curse my head off every time I did something wrong. Language is a very important tool in presenting yourself and people, especially over the net where they have nothing else to make a first impression of you by, will initially judge you based off your behaviour. Now for someone like me who has been around here for a bit knows how these mods are it isn't such a huge deal because I know how each person is by this point and can shrug it off. I do admit though that my first impressions of some of these people did rub me the wrong way simply due to the way they conducted themselves, and telling someone "to piss off" because they voice their concerns doesn't really help sell the image that the mod team is as friendly and open as you'd probably like. Now...I know that doesn't represent what the mods actually feel, as Roarey has stated they do feel bad for things they have to do sometimes (I remember Blur at one point or another talking to me about this I believe) but I just used that line as an example because it is a pretty clear example of what I'm trying to point out. Not only this but it was recently brought up that the whole 'jizz' type posts were not going to be allowed due to their nature and being classified as profanity. So then the hypocrisy in making a post about not using excessive profanities whilst using excessive profanity just simply sends the message "we can use excessive profanity but you can't". That's all.

Personally? I don't mind the cursing in general if used lightly here and there. The majority of us are all well aware of these words by this point in our lives, but there are children about as well. It still is, at heart, a forum about a cartoon blue hedgehog which is something someone of all ages can enjoy. I just think when trying to make a professional stance on a subject and/or dealing with member problems, it should be done in a way that is professional is all. I know its not a job and you guys do it for free and I appreciate it. I also understand that it is overwhelming right now because the forum is quite filled with terrible posts right now, but I know that I'd appreciate it if level-heads could be kept a little more around here and perhaps tone down the language some in terms of making an official stance on something.

At the same time, we as members should make sure to keep reporting rather than adding to the flames and simply stretching things out by going "thats not allowed, someone report this" or posting image memes to drag stuff on. I'd also suggest that we as members try and cut down on our profanity use as well. If we are asking the mods to do it I do think its only fair that in return we try and keep our mouths in check too. This sort of thing is definitely a two way street and it'd be selfish to ask of one thing from them and not make an effort to better improve ourselves/our attitudes as well. My two cents.

[Stasis]

The only mod that I've seen curse is Sean, and to be honest some of his posts have been a bit off. When you're reading a topic and you come across a post like 'shut the fuck up and get back on fucking topic', it does make you think "man, this guys a dick". However, as mentioned above, he's cut back a bit on this front, and his reply to this topic only contained one swear word, so props to him.

Moderating is a ball ache, and they can only do the best they can - when they can. When they feel the need to intervene in a topic, they will do. It would be nice to talk to them all a bit more, but with all the members we have on here, being in contact with everyone is a problem.

[Diz]

Good morning.

Ohayoo!

1. Almost all the mods don't communicate Sonic on here. This is the Sonic Stadium Message Board. We mostly discuss areas about the Sonic series here, with some smaller sections like Computer Games, Off-Topic, and PD below it. However, unless a report is sent, we don't see the mods or admins going around the Sonic forums at all. Unless it's lip service, I see absolutely no one that helps moderate this forum just discuss about Sonic one bit.

Yush, I--

The mods/admins don't really communicate stuff of Sonic on here. The only ones who do are Carbo (who isn't as active there anymore), Dizney ---

Wut? Who, me? You must be mistaken. I-- I never really say much Sonic-wise. I mostly browse and read the news, but I can't remember actually saying much. This morning was when I actually decided to look more into the sections and try actually posting more to understand and see more of those sections, but I haven't done that just yet ... =O

I am not really as much a Sonic fan as I used to be (if I ever was ...?) but I really, really, really loved his classic games, so that's one reason for me to contribute more to Sonic Generations, but even then it likely wouldn't be super much!

3. Most of the mods' behaviors when presenting their lip service are absolutely terrible! I don't mind cursing or whatnot here, but only when they're done in jest or out of humor. But when giving reminders, there's no excuse.

What does lip service mean? Ignorant Diz needs to update his dictionary. English-still-in-training! If you by any chance mean cursing and more direct and less friendly tones, then yush. Sometimes us staff need to step up a tad and become a little harsh. When verbal warnings are ignored, something I have heard has happened quite a few times recently, we need to make sure to get the message through and that note is being taken. We even experience attitude where members retaliates in the same topics that verbal warnings or pointers are being given, both going against the moderator and further violating to the rules. In order not to actively go against a moderator's words and further violate to the rules, PM the moderator instead, and remember to bring up a cooperative tone, or else the moderators reserve the rights to ignore you, or in certain cases if you're being naughty, punish you.

If you disagree with a staff members' decision then that's fine, you're free to express that. If you do so in an obnoxious or aggressive way, however, we reserve the right to ignore you.

^

In a PM, in order not to bug up the topic or anything.

3. A better method of getting people to see reminders. If there's excess baggage going on, and you want to put in a post telling people to cut it out, and if you feel people aren't going to see, lock the topic temporarily and put in a post dictating so. How long? I don't know, but I'm going to say about ten to twenty minutes just to cool some people down. Then, once the excitement quiets, unlock the topic, and the discussion can resume.

Not a bad idea, and we have been using this method whenever we felt we needed it in particular. Perhaps we need to do it more? This is something I have been thinking about myself. However, in most cases I do not believe it to be necessary. If members are in the process of posting after staff have warned against contributing to something, well, the big chance is that the members should know better than to post it in the first place. For instance if a moderator's warning is drowned among countless of other posts in a matter of seconds, chances are it's a spamfest which members shouldn't contribute to in the first place. I should know, I have been there, yush! 0.0;

4. If you feel frustrated when posting a warning, don't post yet. Write the post. Step away for a few minutes to cool off. Then come back and reread it.

There are times when we are unable to do this, like the times when an excessive flamewar goes on, or how about the one/two Personal Discussion topics recently? We could lock them and come back shortly, but what if it spreads to another topic, to the Status Updates or if reports fly in about member profile comments? More importantly, from what I have observed and how I know the team, we do not need to step out for fresh air (until perhaps afterwards if things escalated a lot and became dramatic!) Once again, because of situations repeating themselves and us feeling warnings are not getting through due to a lot of excitement or whatnot, sometimes we feel the need to be harsher. =]

Also, I feel most of the members respect the admins and members of staff, that be my impression of the situation, both currently and over time - Earlier this morning, the rule topic of the Sonic Generations subsection was updated with a crackdown, and I see members applauding it, so we must be doing something right!

[Flyboy Fox]

Oh boy. And so it begins XD

I should start by saying, upfront, that DQ PMed me last night explaining that he had some issues with the moderation on this forum and asked me to check over the post he was writing about it to make sure that it didn't break any rules. I couldn't see any rules being breeched, and so I told him he could go ahead. I also warned him to expect backlash, and that although I agree with some of the points made, I believe the staff team really do try their best and that we are only human. I feel that the anger in this post isn't really proportional to the issues, but I'm going to give my take on it anyway. I'm not taking sides. I'm both a staffer and a member, and given recent events, I think the team has coped wonderfully and I deeply appreciate the support most of the forum gives to the mods and admins.

Having said that, I'm going to address the points mentioned.

The mods/admins don't really communicate stuff of Sonic on here. The only ones who do are Carbo (who isn't as active there anymore), Dizney, and Flyboy Fox (although mostly for Archie).Dreadknux, Roarey Raccoon, bmn, and Chris are almost never active on the Sonic-centered boards. I'm active on the main Sonic Discussion board. Because most of the staff couldn't care less about Sonic anymore, whenever I see their names pop on the bottom, I wonder if something went wrong, and that's it. I get absolutely no other impression that they want to get involved in the actual conversation of the topic.

Aside from the fact that I feel I should point out I'm pretty active in a number of Sonic-related topics, not just Archie, I do share the sentiment that it's not a crime for the other mods to have little interest in partaking in those topics. Many of SSMBs members, especially the long-term ones (and they are the ones more likely to be staffers, after all), have either moved on from Sonic or simply prefer other topics of conversation. There's absolutely no grounds for attacking the existing team for not talking about Sonic.

However, I will say that it would be incredibly helpful for us to have a couple more staffers who are Sonic fans, because it does make it much easier to moderate the forums if we're in there a lot anyway. I know that I, personally, miss a lot of the trouble in the Upcoming Games subforums because I simply hardly ever go in there. If I was posting in there a lot anyway, like I do in Sonic Discussion and General Discussion, I'd probably be able to nip things in the bud more quickly. Choosing new staffers who are active in the Sonic forum areas has actually been a priority in discussions, however, in the end it's the behavioural qualities of members that is the much more important trait and so we've chosen staff who we feel will do the job well over staff who simply love Sonic. Ideally, we'd have a few more fans on the staff, but it's difficult finding the right people. Nevertheless, the staff we DO have are brilliant at going in there and sorting crap out, so I can't fault their activity in that respect one bit.

At times, the mods and admins are asleep or inactive. There are admins living in the U.S. and many areas across Europe. Mostly, they're on at specific times. [...] Sometimes, I see no staff moderating the forums from 7 PM to my bedtime at 9-10 PM. It's not around-the-clock, as it SHOULD.

I agree that ideally we'd have mods from all the different time zones and none of them would have too many other things in their lives to attend to, but c'est la vie. Real life has to come first, whether it's school, work, family or whatever else. It does mean that there are some periods during the day that have a stronger staff presence than others, but that's unavoidable, really.

Most of the mods' behaviors when presenting their lip service are absolutely terrible! I don't mind cursing or whatnot here, but only when they're done in jest or out of humor. But when giving reminders, there's no excuse. Saying "we're human" doesn't cut it.[...]With the exception of two mods, I don't respect any of you mods here. Instead, I fear you. I don't trust you. By being very so forceful, you guys are demanding that respect. That's not how you get it. You don't demand respect. You earn it.

This part of the rant got pretty angry, and I don't think the mod team deserves this kind of vitriol. We are only human and sometimes we get frustrated. Having said that, I've never been a big fan of profanity, and I can see where an occasional double-standard exists where staff can get away with ripping into and swearing at a misbehaving member in a way that would have resulted in an insta-ban from any other member. I don't believe in 'staff privileges' when it comes to acting that way. I've winced at certain posts that lack in calmness and professionalism because I do feel that diplomacy is an important skill in setting a positive example here.

Nevertheless, while I do agree in principle and am glad that it was raised, I think the rant far exaggerates the problem and makes it seem like staff aren't allowed to have bad days or lose their cool or have individual methods of handling things. I may not always agree with the version of tact used by some of my fellow staffers, but they don't deserve this kind of anger. They get the job done and unless there's a massive outcry, which there hasn't been, I'm not going to try to change how they do things. (Besides, I'm kind of a prude; I'm sure I made that quite clear in the "Jizzed in my pants" topic x.x)

The crux of it, for me, is that I feel that the staff team should always be open to criticism and suggestion for improvement because of course we're not perfect. But we aren't a bunch of elitist pricks who feel we can lord ourselves over other members, either. We have many discussions in the forum about how we can improve what we do, and how we can make this forum as enjoyable as we can for others. I don't think, at the heart of it, that we're a badly run forum. I hope most people agree with that much, at least.

[Roarey Raccoon]

If you judge someone on account of their using "fuck" and other profanities in posts then that is a bias problem of your own that you need to work on. Swearing is used in great frequency the world over, it isn't inherently a disgusting, disruptive or antagonistic thing. Sometimes, no, most of the time, swearing does a much better job and putting a point across with emphasis than other words. I say this despite a rather large vocabulary and an education in one of the best schools in my country. Swearing is fucking wonderful.

[Nepenthe]

@ Punk: Whenever I see the mods cursing or using inflammatory language, it's usually the most minor little lashing-out you could ever come across on the Internet considering the infractions they're addressing. Even when at the end of their rope, I've never seen the mods outright overdo it with inflammatory language like some 12 year old just realizing the amount of anonymity he's got on a computer, which is why your comparison to the whole jizzing scandal doesn't really fly; people for months ran that same joke into the ground over the most utterly insignificant of reveals for a damn video game, and it just become another symptom of the overall spammy nature of that subforum instead of the funny lil' meme it was the first few months.

Being an admin on another forum, I can relate to how insignificant and overall frustrating this particular issue is. When you're on staff, expectations for your language and behavior don't just raise but go into the stratosphere, and the normal members are apt to blame you for every little thing they see as a pratfall because they themselves don't have a clue about what it's like to work behind the scenes of that particular forum, balancing the internal politics, the actual work in public, and a life outside of the computer. It's actually stressful as hell, and you want to add even more to the plate by slapping their hand because they say "fuck" a few times?

[Solkia]

I think people are taking this way too seriously.

[Meow]

I guess I just see things differently from you guys I guess. Anyway I've said my piece, I really am not in it to argue these things with anyone. I'm also not saying anyone is obligated to do what I mentioned in my post at all either, I want to make that clear. It was simply a suggestion/concern but I see it is in the wrong/of the unpopular opinion. I'll just be quiet about it then .

[Sean]

No one's preventing you or anyone from posting suggestions and opinions in this subforum. It does say feedback forum, after all. Doesn't mean everyone's going to agree but don't let that stop you.

[Flyboy Fox]

If you judge someone on account of their using "fuck" and other profanities in posts then that is a bias problem of your own that you need to work on. Swearing is used in great frequency the world over, it isn't inherently a disgusting, disruptive or antagonistic thing. Sometimes, no, most of the time, swearing does a much better job and putting a point across with emphasis than other words. I say this despite a rather large vocabulary and an education in one of the best schools in my country. Swearing is fucking wonderful.

If that was aimed at me, Roarz, I'd like to clarify that I'm absolutely not judging anyone on account of their language. As I've said, the other staffers get the job done and I'm not going to try to persuade them to change their methods unless there's a real backlash, which there clearly hasn't been. I disagree that swearing does a better job at getting a point across than other ways of wording things, but everyone has their own style and I'm cool with that. I personally do not like excessive profanity because I find it unnecessary and I think there are more creative ways to make a point, but that's just my own personal feeling about it and isn't anything I would try to enforce on others.

I only take issue with it when there's a double standard - staff members behaving in ways that regular members would be punished for. It doesn't happen often, although I know that I've been guilty of it a couple of times myself. We need to set a good example, naturally, and I think we do that, for the most part.

[Roarey Raccoon]

If that was aimed at me, Roarz, I'd like to clarify that I'm absolutely not judging anyone on account of their language. As I've said, the other staffers get the job done and I'm not going to try to persuade them to change their methods unless there's a real backlash, which there clearly hasn't been. I disagree that swearing does a better job at getting a point across than other ways of wording things, but everyone has their own style and I'm cool with that. I personally do not like excessive profanity because I find it unnecessary and I think there are more creative ways to make a point, but that's just my own personal feeling about it and isn't anything I would try to enforce on others.

I only take issue with it when there's a double standard - staff members behaving in ways that regular members would be punished for. It doesn't happen often, although I know that I've been guilty of it a couple of times myself. We need to set a good example, naturally, and I think we do that, for the most part.

Haha, of course it wasn't aimed at you, quite a few people have mentioned swearing in this topic XP. I've not personally seen members get striked or whatever, punished, for the use of swearing. The reason that is is because it is context that matters, not just the words being used. If someone is flaming another member or members and they're using swear words in the process then it's gonna warrant a strike as it always has done, with or without the bad language XP. I'm simply rather fed up of seeing people taking some sort of high ground because they don't like to swear and act as though their condemnation of people who do use it to excess is or ought to be universally shared. If someone wants to make a point they should be able to do so using whatever language they feel is right to use XP. Unless they're attacking someone else of course.

It's basically a more acceptable way of patronising someone, much the same as talking down to smokers and overweight people. If I want to write "fuck" several times in a post I'm going to do it, because as an adult I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions. When some tosser pops up and tells me I ought to 'know better' or watch my language I'd sooner shove a bollard up their arse, without lubrication for good measure.

[Koopalmier]

I think the mods do a wonderful job and do their best. Okay, I'm only here since like three months, but I haven't found a reason to have any bad opinion about any mod yet.

And now I'll sit there and enjoy my popcorn as drama and wall of texts come from everywhere.

*shot*

No, seriously.

Mods don't go on the Sonic boards enough ? And ? Should it bother you ?

I'm pretty sure they have a life too (unlike most of us here, I guess :V) and are already busy enough here moderating stuff and checking if there are problems anywhere. Also, I wouldn't even care if none of them liked Sonic, as long as they'd do their job well and be passionate about it (but then they'd have no reason to be here, so meh :V).

There are some points where the mods can't be here because of their timezone.

Sure. That can hardly be avoided though. Personal life kicking in doesn't help. Plus if something like a shitstorm happens while the mods aren't there, they can still moderate it as soon as they're back. The members aren't children either, they have to behave themselves too, this place isn't kindergarden.

The mods have a "slighty too exotic" language ? They do ? I'm pretty sure I throw more F-bombs than any of you guys here (IRL :V) and that doesn't mean I'm constantly angry.

I've not seen anything too big to make me think "lord, they shall closeth their mouth forevere and thou shall thinketh back of your sins". Not a problem.

So, yeah. I'm fine with the mods. Didn't see a major issue with them. yet. :v

oh, wait, this thread lacks spam.

where is my michael jackson popcorn gif

ugh

Edited October 20, 2011 by Koopalmier