Moderating Issues that I Feel Need to Be Addressed

[Dark Qiviut]

This point, I also have a problem with, because at the end of a rough day when this entire essay that is painful to read without having some sort of summary is presented, it comes off as an entire backward notion to the idea that people want a "stricter regulation".

That kind of thought doesn't make any sense at all. You can be firm, but at the same time, you want to show a professional attitude. Being a mod isn't an occupation, but pretend that it is. Think of yourself as a general manager, and that your members are clients or employees. Think of this board as the real corporate world. How would you want to communicate with your employees? When you're a GM, you want to set an example for not only yourself, but for them, too. Be frustrated if things aren't going what's planned. But you still need to show better self-discipline, because it's been absolutely lacking since you became a mod. The constant cursing when lecturing us members reflects this lack of patience. You're letting your frustrations take over you.

And you can't let your IRL frustrations take over on here. When that happens, the problem escalates, and we get involved. I have IRL frustrations, too, time after time, but I keep that away from here because it creates a chain reaction and causes an even bigger, uneeded problem.

Also, I'm not that kind of a guy who will ever write a "TL;DR" type of sentence at the bottom, because I consider that a huge insult to my own intelligence.

What does lip service mean? Ignorant Diz needs to update his dictionary. English-still-in-training! If you by any chance mean cursing and more direct and less friendly tones, then yush. Sometimes us staff need to step up a tad and become a little harsh. When verbal warnings are ignored, something I have heard has happened quite a few times recently, we need to make sure to get the message through and that note is being taken. We even experience attitude where members retaliates in the same topics that verbal warnings or pointers are being given, both going against the moderator and further violating to the rules. In order not to actively go against a moderator's words and further violate to the rules, PM the moderator instead, and remember to bring up a cooperative tone, or else the moderators reserve the rights to ignore you, or in certain cases if you're being naughty, punish you.

Yeah, that's actually what I mean. It's the really non-friendly tone I've seen some mods present themselves here.

One thing most need to know is that you don't have to curse to be firm. I can be firm and harsh, too, like my opening post here, but I don't need to swear like a sailor to do so. When I see something like this, "Guys, knock the fuck off! Get back on-topic!", it doesn't come off as strict. It comes off as rude and immature. The cursing is absolutely unnecessary. Punk makes an absolutely great point in his initial post, and I'm very glad he wrote it.

Now, as for some of the other posts, I'm not saying cut off ties completely in the Discussion and TSS categories. In fact, I actively encourage it, and I'm glad to see it. My problem is that I see most of the mods in general discuss in those two categories ONLY. It wasn't the case when I first joined here in early 2009 and even after the initial collapse of this place two-and-a-half years ago. The mods were very active everywhere, and not only for lip service. But over the past year to year-and-a-half, that activity has dropped dramatically. The Sonic discussion category, with the exception of the members, feels empty and barren most of the time. When I see an orange or purple name appear down below when I'm in those places, I feel like someone did something wrong. It wasn't like that in 2009/early 2010. As a long-time member and former lurker here, it makes me feel a little uncomfortable to see mods act like ghosts in the Sonic category. And, no, we don't need to have all the mods be active there. What I'm saying is that we need at least another person who can actively participate in the "Sonic" threads, and not just to lecture people. I want to see someone else with an orange, purple, or red label come along and actually join a discussion like Flyboy Fox does. It doesn't have be everyone, but a little bit extra there would be great. And just because you're not interested in Sonic anymore doesn't mean you don't have to be involved in contributing to a Sonic-related topic in some way if it interests you.

EDIT: And I've got no problem with the cursing in general. Just a problem with cursing when warning or delivering lip service to other members.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[Roarey Raccoon]

That kind of thought doesn't make any sense at all. You can be firm, but at the same time, you want to show a professional attitude. Being a mod isn't an occupation, but pretend that it is. Think of yourself as a general manager, and that your members are clients or employees........etc

Or not think of yourself as a GM, because that's not what a mod is. Members aren't employees and site staff are not paid managers. This is a privately owned website that has offered up its space and bandwidth for the enjoyment of anyone who signs up. There is no fee to use this site or its features and there is no employment of staff. Everything here is non-profit. Like I said earlier, if you expect professional conduct from members of staff then they are deserving of the payment that professionals in this world always demand for their services. Your suggestion makes no sense. If seeing someone swear makes you think they're immature then fine, I personally see anyone whining about language use as a massive crybaby, but what you gonna do!?

Oh wait, shit, I almost forgot. Staff going crazy on members and drowning them in verbal abuse doesn't actually happen here in the first place.

[Carbo]

That kind of thought doesn't make any sense at all. You can be firm, but at the same time, you want to show a professional attitude. Being a mod isn't an occupation, but pretend that it is. Think of yourself as a general manager, and that your members are clients or employees. Think of this board as the real corporate world. How would you want to communicate with your employees? When you're a GM, you want to set an example for not only yourself, but for them, too. Be frustrated if things aren't going what's planned. But you still need to show better self-discipline, because it's been absolutely lacking since you became a mod. The constant cursing when lecturing us members reflects this lack of patience. You're letting your frustrations take over you.

It's like you didn't even bother to read anything that was said in regards to people not listening when stern warnings are issued on multiple accounts regardless. The GM comparison is just ridiculous. You're starting to sound pretty obnoxious the way you're trying to tell us how to work here.

Also, I'm not that kind of a guy who will ever write a "TL;DR" type of sentence at the bottom, because I consider that a huge insult to my own intelligence.

I didn't tell you to do a TL;DR. I suggested you summarized it up more properly. You devote page-long worthy paragraphs to telling what's wrong with the moderation, and you're not getting your point across any better by basically reformulating it into another page-long paragraph that's basically what you said earlier but with an added "you have to do this" with fancy words sprinkled over it.

[Pelly <3's U]

Uhg this has all been walls of text so I'm going to honestly try to keep mine short.

It's funny that you made this topic because just recently us mods have kind of decided to ummm, care a lot less what members think of our actions. On the whole we do our jobs very well, and maintain the forums to the standards of the rules. There are a few whiney members that are never satisfied unless things are run exactly to their specifications, but that's life.

Swearing.....welll that's a personal thing. You think it's immature, that's great. I don't. We're also not here to instill this great sense of respect on everyone, I don't need you to respect me when I'm telling you not to do something, I need you to listen to me. If you want to get to know me through my posts or talking to me directly and it leads you to respect me, then great. If you want to spam and break the rules, then I will shut it up no matter what. It's my job.

Sonic discussion....this to me is the most petty bullshit complaint there is. A) Most mods have been round here awhile and maybe there level of interest in Sonic has gone down/they've discussed it for years. They don't have to post there. It's hard to find people that frequent Sonic that would make good mods. Usually if you're really inversted into Sonic then you make a great poster, but you may be a bit too into it to be a mod. C) Don't even fucking start with me on being disconnected. Almost every mod here gives out their contact info, posts in statuses, and communicates with members on a regular basis. I will garantee you I've made more good friends on this board over the years then you have (aimed at DQ). If you feel disconnected from us because we don't tell you which Sonic character we'd like to have hot furry sex with, then that's your problem.

We also have mods in every timezone..........but that doesn't mean they're always on. Ya the board isn't constantly moderated.....and you know what? I have enough respect and trust in our members that they can handle there being times when we're not here.

Basicallythough for anything I can argue, I think you want things run your way DQ. Well it's great to try to make suggestions and improve things, but you come across to me as whining that things aren't exactly the way you like them.

And like I said before, most of us mods feel it's exactly time to stop listening to stuff like this ~

(But I kinda love the drama, what a rush ~~)

[Dark Qiviut]

You're starting to sound pretty obnoxious the way you're trying to tell us how to work here.

I try not to. Sorry that it came off like that.

[Pelly <3's U]

It's ok, we forgive you

=P

[Flyboy Fox]

I'll reiterate that I do think it would be easier to keep an eye on the Sonic areas, particularly the Upcoming Games subforums, if we had at least a couple of mods who spent time in there in general. But I don't think the existing mods should have to make themselves post in there, nor should they feel bad for not being all that interested. It would be great if a candidate for staffer shows up who is big on new Sonic news, because we lack that sort of constant presence there at the moment, but it's not a priority. The current team keeps things under control and does the job effectively and efficiently, so it's not a big deal really.

Also, so that Pelly's point doesn't get confused, we haven't unanimously decided to completely disregard what anyone thinks about the way the forum is run. Input is always appreciated. But we've agreed that we need to do what we feel is best and not be pressured into changing how we work because of a minority of people who take issue with certain aspects. I'm all for communication, but when it turns into a sort of class warfare, then it just gets silly.

[Pelly <3's U]

haha flyboy is all like middle ground, rest of us are like fuuuuuuuck man

Now I understand why everyone loves Flyboy so much <3

(not that I didn't understand before, flyboy = love)

[Flyboy Fox]

haha flyboy is all like middle ground, rest of us are like fuuuuuuuck man

Now I understand why everyone loves Flyboy so much <3

(not that I didn't understand before, flyboy = love)

Wahhh ^^;; Really, I just want my fellow staff team to feel appreciated and acknowledged for all the hard work they do, and for the forum members to feel respected and fairly treated by the mod team.

I want harmony, and I know I'm kind of a bleeding heart when it comes down to it, but I don't like conflict.

I want us to acknowledge areas where we could improve what we do, but I also want people to understand that we're not dragons; we do try to be fair and reasonable and rational and we spend a lot of time discussing the best way to work it all in the staff forums.

I want understanding between staff and members, because the staff are members too, not some elite force looking down from on a pedestal.

I just want it all loved up in this joint, man. That a crime? ;_;

[Nepenthe]

You know, I think the supposed lack of moderating in the Sonic sections could be easily handled if people both learned to chill out and reported more often. Even with a bigger staff presence in the more general sections, there isn't as much crap going on there because people are more chillax and having fun talking about ponies and stuff. Having a good forum is a two-way street, and members need to take some responsibility for the problems that persist by neither complaining or threatening to leave until it's fixed. :|

[Roarey Raccoon]

I just want it all loved up in this joint, man. That a crime? ;_;

Yes, yes it is.

I admit that I've been an absolute nob when it comes to being active here myself but even one glance at the staff forum is a testament to just how much this forum has calmed down compared to how it used to be. There were multiple topics popping up pretty much every day a few years ago about members breaking the rules and stuff like that. These days there's hardly any. Sure, there are still people breaking rules and being disruptive but it tends to take an exciting new release in the Sonic franchise to spark things off; generally there's a lot more maturity on this forum than in the past. I think the staff and members have made a lot of progress, personally. I could be wrong though!

[Flyboy Fox]

You know, I think the supposed lack of moderating in the Sonic sections could be easily handled if people both learned to chill out and reported more often. Even with a bigger staff presence in the more general sections, there isn't as much crap going on there because people are more chillax and having fun talking about ponies and stuff. Having a good forum is a two-way street, and members need to take some responsibility for the problems that persist by neither complaining or threatening to leave until it's fixed. :|

It's true that often I'll see "Could a mod close this?" or "I hope a mod comes in and stops this" quite a lot and yet the people saying it haven't reported it. Even if we were regular posters in all the forum areas, we can't be everywhere at once, in every active topic... So, yes. Please don't be afraid to use the report function, guys. It's there to alert staff of where there's a problem, after all!

Yes, yes it is.

;_; *Goes off to be a hippie elsewhere*

[Raxz]

SSMB has the best moderation staff I've seen on any forum. The mods and admins on most forums are guys I like to refer to as the "Soulless fuck-you-people" but on SSMB this is not the case. SSMB probably has the most human mods I've ever seen. Furthermore they're not the 2nd most common type of staff either where they're all just complete pricks.

I just wanted to say that.

And also... I haven't posted much in the Sonic Discussion forum either. It doesn't mean I like Sonic, just that not many of the topics in there interest me, or maybe I just don't have anything to say, or maybe I just stopped reading after a certain point because of spoilers. My point is, nobody complains that I never post in Sonic Discussion, but if I became a mod, it'd suddenly be a problem? If somebody's not interested in your topic then they're not interested. They shouldn't HAVE to post in it.

As for the swearwords point... personally I don't see the big deal. Words don't hurt anybody, sure some are more aggressive than others but if I wanted to actually hurt somebody I'd get a freaking shovel and hit them.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Raxz

[TheGerkuman]

Like I said earlier, if you expect professional conduct from members of staff then they are deserving of the payment that professionals in this world always demand for their services

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dark Lord Storma-Gerk-on

[Diz]

*Goes off to be a hippie elsewhere*

[Roarey Raccoon]

Part of the reason why the staff is so good is is that they generally follow professional conduct without being paid, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here Roarz.

[TheGerkuman]

My point is you shouldn't expect immaculate and professional behavior.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was one of the people DQ actually sent a message too regarding the Mods (although we were on something else first), but as I told him in PM, I kinda assumed that either you guys were way too fucking busy to take care of moding every hour on the hour, or that some of you guys were doing things behind the scenes that we members couldn't know about. And some were completely inactive for years.

That pretty much justified to me why some of you mods and admins haven't been particularly active on the boards much. I remember seeing Roareye Black post a week back since he was a bit inactive for about maybe 4 years? And I haven't heard from Urtheart in quite a long time either.

But honestly, seeing the number of things we members do kinda makes me understand what it's like to be a mod. Sounds more of a pain in the ass then you mods actually make it out to be. Sean "most disliked mod" status probably comes from him actually enforcing the rules, and a number of members have become too stuck on the privilege that they can slightly derail things for the fun while detracting from the point of the topic. I've seen quite a number of people push their lucks when it comes to ignoring what a mod has said in a topic, and I will admit that I've done so a few times myself trying to get the last word in so I need to control that myself. We veteran members already know how annoying it is when some members come in and disturb things, and even worse when they do the shit on purpose; we were around during quite a hellish period when we were at each other's throats, and now that things have been much better than they were several years ago, seeing that level of peace we've gotten get disturbed tends to tick us off further. Sometimes, it makes us take part in it not realizing that we more than likely added to the problem. I know I've had those moments, because while you're not trying to ignore the mods on purpose, you're feel a sense to inform someone of something they've been overlooking, intentionally or not. It's hard to fight, I'll admit, but you can't always do that lest you get in trouble, and I've pushed my luck a number of times that I've ended up thinking I should not have and I still manage to get through. It's a habit in need of breaking for me.

Now imagine being a mod who not only does that, but has the added responsibility to maintain order when shit gets out of hand? Sure there are members who are having fun, but then comes a moment when people start going at it like we did years ago? Things have become a little more strict in some areas and lax in others, but then comes the new additions we never had in the past. We never had the status update, some have ended up abusing the PM to flame others in private (and I bet some are still doing that now), and what comes with these things and various others are whole new ways to abuse them.

Things have definitely changed from when I originally joined. But I can't exactly expect mods to adhere to our every whim, which Sean laid out in one topic when he addressed it. I'd say members need to have a sense to govern themselves only resorting to the mods when necessary, and to an extent the SSMB does that a lot better than most sites I've seen. But it's not perfect.

As things go on, there will be a lot of things in flux, be it the rules, the topics, and the members, so...eh, not sure what I was trying to finish saying here.

Edited October 20, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Roarey Raccoon]

Ohh, I see. Yeah, I agree that it's an entitlement thing.

[Carbo]

Gerk is very rarely the sarcastic kind of type.

[Roarey Raccoon]

Gerk is very rarely the sarcastic kind of type.

Oh it's Gerku, I didn't recognize him with that long bloody name XP.

[eXtaticus]

Never had any of these problems myself; to me, the moderators on this site have always been extremely fair.

This is coming from a guy who's been suspended twice, and currently has two warn points.

And before you all rush to chew my arse off, I am NOT sucking up.

[Jacky]

Yeah dude, the mods do a fine job

They do a fantastic job around here, your honestly wishing too much on them, they are just the same as me and you.

i for one, welcome our moderator overlords

[TheGerkuman]

I always assumed that having 'Gerk' somewhere in the name would clue people in... I think that maybe I overdid it this time. ;;

[Gaming Misfit]

Mods VS Members: Round 1.