Sonic doesn't need a story?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sonic doesn't need a story? Okay...but does that mean we shouldn't have one?

Here's a song that was posted in the Generation's review topic when shit hit the fan over the reviews criticizing the story.

I'm sure some of you have heard this song before. And if not, you've no doubt heard various other fans parrot this position that Sonic doesn't need a story.

Yeah, to be frank, Sonic doesn't need a story. But if you want to go talking about what Sonic doesn't need, he doesn't need the spin-dash, he doesn't need Tails to be around, he doesn't need to fight Eggman, etc. Basically Sonic doesn't need anything if you're going to argue about what he does or doesn't need.

People who support stories in Sonic games are very harshly against this statement, because while Sonic may be a videogame, that doesn't mean he can't have a story to entertain us when we're watching the cutscenes. For one, games at their very central core are made to entertain, and they primary way they do so is to make you take part in the world laid out for you by playing them. But they do not dictate entertaining you by only having you play them and nothing else, they're also entertaining when you watch your characters interact with the world within the story that is taking place.

But what about people against having stories? I'd honestly say my thoughts, but I think we would have a much better discussion if they were to come to the debate and voice their thoughts as to why. And I also want to keep from being too one-sided on what I think of them when I don't support their position.

Me? I like to be entertained. When it comes to videogames I mainly like to play, but I'm a heavy ass supporter of stories in games like Sonic. If anything, having a plot is what helps drive you further into playing the game, as you want to play things further to see how everything else pans out. Now while you don't need that, I say it's a much much bigger push to continue to play the game than it would if you didn't have it. In fact, that's partly why a number of us even bothered torturing ourselves playing Sonic 06 all the way through to the end, because we wanted to see what happened as the plot progressed. Admit it, that's the main reason you played it till the final story, otherwise you would've sold the game within the next few days without bothering to finish it.

But I'm not the only one with views on this subject. Discuss.

Edited October 26, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Vertekins]

This line of thinking annoys me greatly.

There is NOTHING taboo about the concept of a story in a Sonic game. If you're going to point the finger at something that renders a story stupid, point it at bad storytelling, Flanderization and plot holes. Not the basic concept of there being a story in the first place.

Stories compel characters to do what they do. It gives them direction. It gives them purpose.

I also hate the assumption that the likes of Sonic 1 didn't have a story, a way of saying that SatAM was justified with the sheer divorcement it took. Erm, yes it did. Eggman wants the Emeralds in order to create WMD's and ultimate power and trapping animals inside his robots factors into this, compelling Sonic to take a stand. If that isn't a "Plot"/"Story" then you need to look-up the definition of what a "plot"/"Story" is.

[Soniman]

That crappy video was made back when people complained about false stereotypes like too many characters (seriously, I see no reason to hate Blaze, what the fuck did she ever do?) and story was (apparently) the thing that made Sonic games suck and not , you know, the GODDAMN GAMEPLAY.

I just hate the stupid cop out responses when it comes to Sonic and story, why the hell ca't we have a GOOD story instead of just no story at all? It's goddamn annoying.

Oh and im pretty sure Sonic 2 - Sonic 3&K had an entire arc worth of story, so that guy can go and take his crappy singing elsewhere

Edited October 26, 2011 by Soniman032-

[Indigo Rush]

I think Sonic needs context. Does he need a big extravagant plot, or even a slightly big plot? To me, what matters is a consistent setting and mythos, and enough context to know why Sonic and friends are having another adventure, what Eggman is doing this time, how Sonic and friends are progressing, and what the implications are to said mythos. Aside from that, I don't think we need any more fleshing out of how Shadow's the illegitimate love-child of a fat scientist and an alien.

Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow,Don't want Shadow, Don't want Shadow

Edited October 26, 2011 by Indigo Generations

[mclaren6]

People actually want no Story?

Is that another picky and pointless moan about Sonic games?

(If you want no Story, Go play "Egg Shuttle" in Colours)

Edited October 26, 2011 by mclaren6

[Jacky]

I've made pretty clear i could give two shits about storylines, i just wanna play vidya games, i like the bullshit plots of robotnik has evil plan, Sonic goes to stop it etc.

i honestly agree with the song, not to mention pretty catchy. Yes i am an asshole and my opinion sucks, don't remind me.

[Shoot em up Capbusta]

I have on complaints on sonic having a story since from the beginning this series has had a simple yet coherent story-lines. I know story isn't everything but I don't want to be aimlessly running through stages with no meaning. Sonic stories in particular aren't perfect and it's mainly the dialogue that makes the story cheesy but I have always been entertained with them. I myself came into the series when the stories got more complex shall I say. To be honest I haven't had a problem with sonic's story lines whether they more serious tone like SA2 or light and goofy liked colors was.

[EXshad]

The Japanese Sonic 1 manual debunks that entire song.

The franchise has always had a story, or at least was meant to. Even if it wasn't outright conveyed in the games. And hell, even destroying robots to free your animal friends from a mad scientist is a story, albeit a really simple one. "Sonic doesn't need a story..." you wanna know a game that doesn't need a story? Tetris. Why? 'cause it's a game about trying to get a bunch of fucking blocks to line up properly. That's it.

Should Sonic be that bare-bones and simple? Should the next Sonic game just feature Sonic running from one end of the screen to the next for no reason? There should be no conflict? No enemy you have to defeat, no island, city, or world you have to save?

That song is really stupid.

Edited October 26, 2011 by EXshad

[JezMM]

I've made pretty clear i could give two shits about storylines, i just wanna play vidya games, i like the bullshit plots of robotnik has evil plan, Sonic goes to stop it etc.

i honestly agree with the song, not to mention pretty catchy. Yes i am an asshole and my opinion sucks, don't remind me.

You're an assho... oh.

[SHAX Hedgefox]

Didn't the games which people praise as being "good" have some sort of story? Like Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles and the Adventure games? I'm fairly certain they all had stories that were more complex than "Press right, save animals, stop a fat, egg shaped mustache-man."

Besides, like people have said, it's not the stories that make games crap. It's the fact that the stories are shit. I mean, look at Colours. It had a great story, and it also had great gameplay. In contrast, Sonic 06 had an incredibly convoluted story, and the gameplay was terrible. People tend to link the two together in Sonic's case, and think bad story = bad gameplay.

So, what I'm saying is: The storyline's aren't the main problem, so quit bitching about them.

[Kuzu]

That song is fucking stupid and false, because even if it was in the manuals, the games made a point to tell you that there was a plot, even Mario's saving the princess all of the time counts as a plot. If the song was talking about how the story wasn't as intrusive as it is now then yeah I can kind of agree with that, but to say that the series never had, or needs a story is so full of shit that I can't believe people actually buy into it.

Colors on the other hand was horrible imo. The story wasn't even too cute, it was just annoying. The dialogue just made any personality Sonic lost after SA2 disappear entirely. He breaks the fourth wall on a constant basis, makes annoying cringe worthy jokes "HUR BAWLDY NOZEHAIR", and Roger "Pizza Hut" Smith doesn't convey attitude but instead turns Sonic into a (excuse the vulgarity) douche.

[Xenos]

I love a good Sonic story. Unleashed did it perfectly IMO. I know that the "Monster of the week" thing was kind of bland, but the tone was perfect. It didn't baby anyone, had pretty good humor, and was animated beautifully. While SA1 and SA2 had great narrative, the animation and sort of sloppy execution makes it cringe worthy to watch with an adult mind. Mind you I'm not a fan of Jason Griffith, but even in Japanese Unleashed did great story telling. Too bad it was infested with a werehog.

Colors on the other hand was horrible imo. The story wasn't even too cute, it was just annoying. The dialogue just made any personality Sonic lost after SA2 disappear entirely. He breaks the fourth wall on a constant basis, makes annoying cringe worthy jokes "HUR BAWLDY NOZEHAIR", and Roger "Pizza Hut" Smith doesn't convey attitude but instead turns Sonic into a (excuse the vulgarity) douche.

I personally think there is room for story as long as it's written as a story and not a product.

also bring Ryan Drummond back

Edited October 26, 2011 by Xenos

[Nitwit_Speed]

What bothers me the most is the argument that Sonic didn't have a story in the classics. Back then, platformers didn't have stories to my knowledge, but who did it anyway? Sonic 1 was blankish, but it set the stage for the Death Egg Saga. SAGA. The three games in the Death Egg Saga are connected by story as well as gameplay, not to mention the fact that it's always referred to as a saga, which, by definition, is a long, involved story or accounts of incidents. Sonic was the king of stories.

When it comes down to it IMO, there are two types of game worlds: realities to escape to or escapes from any reality whatsoever. Mario is an escape from reality whatsoever. With very little context, Mario is running across a country-sized obstacle course. It's simple, and when it comes to plot, mindless. Sonic has always been another reality to escape to, as solidified by the beloved Death Egg Saga. Plot points add up and there is something to follow. Often times, people will say that SEGA should look to Mario for story inspiration. They're being sarcastic and mean that Sonic should be a semi-pointless escapade. Some people will point out the Death Egg Saga as the prime example of storytelling with a straight face because it is. It's not an overly complicated story, but each game has a premise, rising action, a climax, and falling action sans Sonic 2. And they exist to be stories, not excuses. Honestly, i have no beefs with the storytelling in Sonic Heroes. It was light, but it was storytelling all the same. It had enough elements for a short, light story, making it "possible".

On a related note, some people liked Colors storyline because it wasn't a story and they thought their Mario-plot wishes had come true, but i simply don't get it. There is a plot, and while it has very little content, it forces itself. It isn't complicated, but it's heavy, like clear syrup as opposed to a hearty chili. By that logic, Sonic Heroes is water. The clear syrup is the only thing you don't want raw, although it's nice on top of something actual, like waffles despite not fitting into the liquid analogy.

*Sonic 1 technically has a story as has been stated, but a near Mario-level one. Sonic 2 is "sans"'d because of a lack of rising action, not because of lack of story altogether.

Edited October 26, 2011 by firelord767

[LoseR]

I've heard this song before...

Terrible song.... How stupid was I to like this the first time I heard it...?

Okay well, what's my opinion on story? I don't think it's necessary, but I REALLY DO like it when a Sonic game has a good story. There was a time when I thought gameplay was the only important part of a game, but looking back, MOST of my favorite games have good stories, gameplay, etc. Give us something to think about, not just blatantly running around for no reason than to help...

Another thing. Not quite sure if this is derailing the topic but, why haven't they gone back and done more games that have levels based off the story... Adventure did it, and the sequel did it even better. It MADE SENSE, instead of having a story based off the levels, why don't we have levels based off the story again... Oh yeah, and Unleashed kind of did it too, but it was really all over the place...

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and there are times when I prefer the story being based off levels, but I always thought it turned out nice the other way around.

[Kuzu]

Another thing. Not quite sure if this is derailing the topic but, why haven't they gone back and done more games that have levels based off the story... Adventure did it, and the sequel did it even better. It MADE SENSE, instead of having a story based off the levels, why don't we have levels based off the story again... Oh yeah, and Unleashed kind of did it too, but it was really all over the place...

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and there are times when I prefer the story being based off levels, but I always thought it turned out nice the other way around.

Because it limits the imagination, you'd have to make levels that make sense for the game meaning if wanted to make a level about a sky level, but you're game takes place underground, that limits the creativity. This was the problem with Sa2, because the setting is the same for most of the characters, a lot of the levels are rehashed between Light and Dark.

Basically for me, its all about transition. No matter what zone or level I finish, I want there to be something connecting the two levels and not just a random jump into the next world.

[Johnny Boy]

I have no problem with stories in sonic games. Just as long as they are done right.

[Chooch]

Sonic has always had an interesting world and story surrounding it. It's a real shame that not many people really even seem to care about it because it really is something. As Verte said, it really is more so an issue with poor storytelling than having an actual story in the first place.

Really, people should be looking into all those incredibly in depth descriptions of stages and stuff in the Japanese instruction manuals for the Genesis / Mega Drive games. There's some real serious shit in there.

I love that sort of thing. Give me more of it. I like having excuses to nerd out.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Chooch

[sonfan1984]

He breaks the fourth wall on a constant basis, makes annoying cringe worthy jokes "HUR BAWLDY NOZEHAIR", and Roger "Pizza Hut" Smith doesn't convey attitude but instead turns Sonic into a (excuse the vulgarity) douche.

What do you mean he breaks the 4th wall on a constant basis? He has only done that once in Colors. You're talking as though he does that in every cutscene in every game and Sonic always had cheesy lines since Sonic Adventure. Also, RCS does a good job as Sonic and he's only doing what SEGA is paying him to do.

Edited October 26, 2011 by sonfan1984

[Forest_GS]

Sonic doesn't need a story. It's just nice to have a general idea of what he's doing.

Just running around for the fun of it? That's enough of a story for me.

[Diogenes]

The moment they decided you should control a character, with personal goals, in an identifiable environment, fighting against other characters, there was a story.

Strictly speaking, a game does not need a story. It is a set of rules concerning a set of objects (real or virtual). Solitaire doesn't have a story. It has rules for how cards can be placed, how they are dealt, and how you win and lose. But there's no context, no abstraction, no justification for those actions besides keeping the player entertained.

Minesweeper, as simple as it is, does have a story. There are mines, sweep for them. There's nothing more to it besides that and its implications (such as, you lost because you set off a mine and have become extra-chunky salsa), but it is not nothing.

When you get all the way up to something like Sonic, the question becomes almost nonsense. Does Sonic need a story? Simply by identifying Sonic, you have a character, and if you have a character, you have a story.

Of course, that isn't what people mean. The real question is, what kind of story should Sonic have? And that's a much more complex and personal question, one that does not have a simple objective answer.

[NintendoSoul]

Didn't the games which people praise as being "good" have some sort of story? Like Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles and the Adventure games? I'm fairly certain they all had stories that were more complex than "Press right, save animals, stop a fat, egg shaped mustache-man."

Besides, like people have said, it's not the stories that make games crap. It's the fact that the stories are shit. I mean, look at Colours. It had a great story, and it also had great gameplay. In contrast, Sonic 06 had an incredibly convoluted story, and the gameplay was terrible. People tend to link the two together in Sonic's case, and think bad story = bad gameplay.

So, what I'm saying is: The storyline's aren't the main problem, so quit bitching about them.

Liking with all my fury. Sonic CD, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure , Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Battle, Sonic Unleashed, and Sonic Colors all had stories to tell, and I loved then all.

[Solkia]

I think generations is the first time I'll actually give a damn about the story in a sonic game.

[Ryusuke]

Yes, Sonic does need a story. And as many here have said before, Sonic games always had a story, no matter how little focus the Classic games gave them. They're there. Video games need context for players to give a shit. Stories are just one way of providing that. Now, granted, the stories Sonic gets aren't as...well...good as say the Ratchet & Clank series. But, they get the job done.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Ryusuke

[Ferno]

I really doubt that the majority of gamers would really give a crap if the next Sonic game had no story at all to be honest. Heck, they'd probably praise the game to the heavens.

[Exploder]

If people don't want stories, they can skip the cutscenes and let the people who want stories enjoy it.