Sonic Advance 3...

[Phos]

Yes, but when you look at some of Sonics most successful titles, you'll see that just holding the stick in one direction for a majority of the game, with occasional jumps and spindashes, is all they have.

Incorrect. There are moments here and there in the classic game that are like that, but they aren't very common. On the other hand, that's all that Advance 2 has.

[ovarloard]

It's correct for more of the modern titles, not the classics.

[SuperLink]

I love SA3. Since the original Sonic games I've always wanted to have Knuckles/Tails CoOp, Sonic/Knuckles CoOp, Sonic/Amy CoOp. The game seems to get nothing but grief from the fanbase, it's a real shame. The game is great fun in multiplayer CoOp.

I don't like the partner stuff a lot of the time, and some of the R Button skills make cheating to get really high way too easy, but choose a character and a good partner/moveset for them and the game is just like any other.

Also it's got the best music in the series.

EDIT: I can proudly say I unlocked Amy in SAdv2. I can also say I used a guide to find all the SP Rings, which I am not proud of.

Edited May 6, 2009 by SuperLink

[EXshad]

I love the hell outta Sonic Advance 3. It's an amazing game, one of my favorites in the entire Sonic series and hell, IMO, THE best of the handheld games.

I mean, Sonic Advance was pretty good, but sorta slow after how much speedier Sonic had gotten in titles like Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic Advance 2 was way to fast, and required almost nothing but having your hand on the right and jump buttons. Cream was also merely a Tails clone, for the most part. Sonic Advance 3 was a happy medium, with speed and platforming much more balanced. The new partner system was also pretty cool, and even though this game lacked the chao gardens of the past 2 games, it was still chalked full of replay value. It also had a nice story that tied in with Sonic Battle.

So I don't think it's overrated. Hell, maybe it's even a bit UNDERrated. XD

[Gamenerd]

SAdv3 took all of the worst elements of the first two Advance titles, added some utterly pointless stuff, omitted the Tiny Chao Garden, and threw in a half-assed Heroes/Chaotix teamplay gimmick. It's by no means a terrible Sonic game, but it's fairly mediocre.

[SuperStingray]

SAdv3 took all of the worst elements of the first two Advance titles

It got rid of the worst element of Sonic Advance 2 and replaced it with some actual platforming.

added some utterly pointless stuff

Can you be specific?

omitted the Tiny Chao Garden

The Tiny Chao Garden is worthless if you already have Advance 1, 2 and/or Pinball Party. And it's still pretty much worthless even if you don't.

threw in a half-assed Heroes/Chaotix teamplay gimmick.

Fair enough, think what you want, but I personally like how much replay value the different character combinations adds. (I love playing as Sonic with a blue version of Amy's mallet.) Edited May 6, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Gabz Girl]

You know, since I only really played the first stage of Sadv3 which was about 3 years ago or something, maybe I should check it out again? ^^; I can't really remember much of it, so..yeah, I might play it again and see what I REALLY think before jumping to conclusions.

From what I can tell in this topic though, it's got pretty mixed reviews overall.

[Reading]

From what I can tell in this topic though, it's got pretty mixed reviews overall.

...just like every single other Sonic game in existence. XD

I never used the Tiny Chao Garden in the first two Advances (I didn't even bother unlocking it in Advance 2), and I barely even went into them in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 before declaring myself uninterested. I'm just not really fond of the whole "virtual pet" thing, for some reason.

[Blacklightning]

I liked SA3 pretty much SOLELY for the level music on the Chaos Angel levels. The only reason I even bothered playing the game through an emulator is because I heard a remix of the song by Newgrounds's Paul Stetich and I wanted to know what the original sounded like. In that respect, I certaintly wasn't disappointed.

Rest of the game was pretty forgettable though. There's a good game in there somewhere - it's just buried underneath tons of hideous trial-and-death-pit-and-error design that makes even Sonic Unleashed seem like a tame and predictable game. SA3 is probably the worst game by far in the series when it comes to insta-deaths, but it's probably a somewhat decent game for those that actually bother memorizing the level design enough to avoid them.

And let's not even start with trying to find the Chaos Emeralds and additional characters.

[SuperStingray]

Rest of the game was pretty forgettable though. There's a good game in there somewhere - it's just buried underneath tons of hideous trial-and-death-pit-and-error design that makes even Sonic Unleashed seem like a tame and predictable game. SA3 is probably the worst game by far in the series when it comes to insta-deaths, but it's probably a somewhat decent game for those that actually bother memorizing the level design enough to avoid them.

Seriously, where are these trial-and-error deaths coming from? Beyond a boss or two I've never run into any. Edited May 6, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Blacklightning]

Chaos Angel again comes to mind, where a fall from nearly ANYWHERE is bound to lead to a death pit of some sort. Admittedly, I haven't played the game in quite a while, but I do recall the pits starting to get a bit ridiculous after Sunset Hill.

[Tornado]

It got rid of the worst element of Sonic Advance 2 and replaced it with some actual platforming.

How so? It kept the the main trait of Advance 2 and then tried to force platforming where it obviously didn't fit. That hardly makes it better, particularly when it is clear that the game engine and level design weren't designed for methodical platforming that it forces on you.

I personally like how much replay value the different character combinations adds.

Playing though the exact same level, with the only difference in each level usually being able to destroy the pointless breakable wall, does not solid replay value make. You liked it, that's fine. But I found the Tails cheat code from the original game to be far more useful in actual gameplay than any of the team crap required in Advance 3 because of the completely arbitrary level restrictions imposed throughout.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Tornado

[SuperStingray]

It kept the the main trait of Advance 2

Again, eyes closed. At least in Sonic Advance 3 I had to be on my toes.

and then tried to force platforming where it obviously didn't fit.

When does platforming NOT fit in a platformer?

That hardly makes it better, particularly when it is clear that the game engine and level design weren't designed for methodical platforming that it forces on you.

First of all, the game engine is never designed with a specific gameplay in mind. When Valve created the Source engine, were they expecting it to utilize portals? Secondly, the platforming is PART of the level design, so how can it NOT be designed for such platforming?

[JezMM]

I've been playing through Advance 3 again on emulator over the past few days (little sister is borrowing my cartridge) and I do have to agree that it's worse than Advance 2 and Rush for trial and error + insta-deaths.

The fact that you can't skip the Game Over and first five seconds of the intro make dying very aggrivating, not to mention going back through the hubs.

I forgot just how infuriating the Twinkle Snow boss is...

[Tornado]

Again, eyes closed. At least in Sonic Advance 3 I had to be on my toes.

Not necessarily a positive. Especially not with all of the fake difficulty that Advance 3 had. Being paranoid because you know the level design is going to hurl you into an enemy or death pit isn't really any better than not having to worry about such nonsense.

When does platforming NOT fit in a platformer?

When the game can't decide whether it want's to zoom you through a level at a million miles an hour or if it wants to slow you down to solve a rudimentary jumping puzzle, and decides to enforce the changes by placing obstacles in order to force you to slow down, it doesn't seem like a game with a strong identity towards its gameplay style.

First of all, the game engine is never designed with a specific gameplay in mind.

Okay. Go play Sonic Unleashed at a slow methodical pace. Then come back and tell me that a game engine can't be specialized. Sonic Advance 3 pretty obviously uses a modified version of what was used in Advance 2. The exact same engine that was clumsy and loose-controlling when you were going slow. They then used it in Advance 3, which had low speed platforming, without changing it.

Secondly, the platforming is PART of the level design, so how can it NOT be designed for such platforming?

There is a large difference between smoothly integrating platforming into a level and making you abruptly stop because the developers can't figure out a better way to do things. Advance 3 was no better than Heroes when it came to gameplay style integration, and was in some ways worse.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Tornado

[SuperLink]

I tried the Twinkle Snow boss again while I was playing through it. WAY easier than I remember! But conversely the Ocean Base boss was much harder than I remember...

I agree with that Ham Sandwich. Less holding forwards, more platforming. Even if there are a lot of endless pits and HOLYSHITI'VESTOPPEDANDNOWI'MDEAD moments, at least it's not as bad as Sonic Rush in EITHER of those aspects.

+ it's got more characters than Sonic Rush.

[Gabz Girl]

That's the only thing they did right with Sadv3. Improve on the whole teamwork aspect. It's much, much better than Sonic Heroes, because each character has a unique ability or two. Heroes' only real unique team character was Espio. >.>

[Ryan Brown]

I'm gonna have to be different from y'all (as usual) and state that I prefer Advance 3 to the others because of how balanced it is.

It's like I'm Goldilocks with this series. Advance 1 was too slow. Advance 2 was too damn fast. Advance 3 was just right. Also, I can get a constant challenge with the team mechanic. This, to me, is how Knuckles' Chaotix should've played.

[Jetronic]

Besides the Brilliant Chaos Angel music (Act 1) the boss music was absolutely Perfect in this game (and I'm not the kind of guy to always say something is perfect =P).

Sometimes I would spend a bit too much time just listening to the boss music, it was THAT good. Also special stage music rocks too, and also the game was just plain fun. The only sound track I didn't like was twinkle snow, A remix of Ice Cap or something else would've been better :\

Edit: i forgot about Altar Emerald, an excellent remix to Holy Summit and probably one of the most kick ass pieces of work for a final zone

Edited May 7, 2009 by Jetronic

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

I dunno...it's a hard one to place, honestly.

Sonic Advance had the best level design and flow, but it just felt boring in concepts.

Sonic Advance 2 stepped it up a good notch, and felt very fluid in concepts for levels, music, but...it just got worse in design...not that bad, but a step back from the regular Sonic formula.

Sonic Advance 3...had the best art design and music, and the hubs were pretty cool. The character partners...only really had two I ever used...Sonic and Tails to get to some out of reach places and Sonic and Knuckles for that up attack that made the final boss a breeze. Still, I don't see why so many people are going nuts over pits...I hardly remember dying countless times to pits, thought I remember a little trouble here and there in Sunset Hill and Chaos Angel...that was about it. Design was okay, I guess. A little tricky, but nothing insane.

I also thought the Chaos Emerald collecting was the most forgiving of the three...at least when you got a Chao it was saved, though I hate the key concept from Sonic Heroes that carried over...Bah.

Overall, definitely doesn't deserve the harsh criticism I've seen. Personally, it's my favorite of the handhelds...though maybe one day I'll give Rush Adventure a playthrough.

[SuperLink]

(and I'm not the kind of guy to always say something is perfect =P).

Really? Your avatar implies to me that you settle for nothing less than perfection

And yeah, agree with Ryan. After SAdv 1 was almost painfully slow paced at times, and SAdv2 too forward moving fastness, SAdv3 felt just right. + Did I forget to mention awesome CoOp?

Seems to be a trend with Dimps' games. Make one insanely fast game, next game is slower and more focused on platforming. Here's hoping Sonic Rush 3 improves even more where Rush Adventure did.

And also make it feel like a new game, rather than an expansion to Sonic Rush D=

[Jetronic]

Really? Your avatar implies to me that you settle for nothing less than perfection

"There's more to a prosecutor then just getting guilty verdicts" Also Franziska would fit the bill since she still has her mind set on that =P

Seems to be a trend with Dimps' games. Make one insanely fast game, next game is slower and more focused on platforming. Here's hoping Sonic Rush 3 improves even more where Rush Adventure did.

And also make it feel like a new game, rather than an expansion to Sonic Rush D=

If there is one

Also did anyone think that some parts of Sonic Advance 3 were easy and that other parts were difficult?

[SuperStingray]

Regardless of how good it is, though, it is a special game to me because it was Bristow's last bow.

[Dr. Mechano]

Regardless of how good it is, though, it is a special game to me because it was Bristow's last bow.

Agreed. Bristow's magnificent acting in SA2(which got me into the series) really made Eggman feel "real" and human to me. He's definitely part of the reason I became the Eggman fan I am today.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Agreed. Bristow's magnificent acting in SA2(which got me into the series) really made Eggman feel "real" and human to me. He's definitely part of the reason I became the Eggman fan I am today.

Yeah, Bristow was pretty awesome. I always kinda felt like his portrayal of Eggman felt a bit like a more subtle, emotional version of Long John Baldry's Robotnik.