Light stories and why I believe they suck

[Riverstone]

Title says it all.

Not putting anyone down or anything, just wondering why people associate sonic with having no to light story?

The one thing that I personally love about sonic is the stories. Not just for the story, but because it feels like every moment that i play as sonic, I am playing with a purpose. And it also adds the added emotional depth to each level. Something that is lacking from the new sonic games is purpose; Unleashed, generations and colors all had hub worlds that placed you in levels for the sake of it. Once you do all the worlds in the hub, youre free to fight the last boss....um....boring much?

Here's an example;

- Green forest; sonic has found himself here after escaping from metal harbour and needs to get out before it all blows up. As you play, you're on an adventure and you have purpose. You want to stop robotnik from destorying the world, clear your name from shadows wrong doing, escape so that you dont blow up, get the choas emeralds.

or

- Green forest: Sonic is here because he needs to go to 7 places to collect shit randomly. Have fun doing yet another chore level.

Remeber S3&K, best story ever besides SA1 and SA2 (personally for me i mean). You chase robotnik onto flying battery, crash into the sandopolis, follow robotnik into lava reef where you find him trying to steel the chaos emeralds from your enemy knuckles in hidden palace. Then you chase him into the sky in sky sanctuary and finally onto the epic death egg, where you beat the shit outta him in space.

THAT is PURPOSE!

Sky sancturary in generations = Another level here for the sake of it. But it's ok, as this game was intended to be a complilation. (try this neat little test: play green hill with the green forest music from SA2 next time, and pretend sonic has been thrown into the level and needs to quickly escape or its gonna blow up. Its such a thrill and way more epic)

All i'm saying is, i dont believe sonic should be light hearted on the story. His character and story has always been a part of what makes him fun and exciting. The adreneline and purpose combined with his attitude and seriousness (when its needed only). SOnic is not or close to mario. Mario has no personally, hes purely a platforming genre. No story needed for him. Sonic is more like the Batman games. He needs adventure, a freakin story and development throughout the games...(personal opinion again).

ALso, in generations, why is sonic so annoying? ("what? we actually do beat this guy everytime!") who remembers that line from generations? Way to make me feel like im actually doing something worth while sonic team

Edited November 8, 2011 by Riverstone

[BlazingTales]

Light heartedness =/= painfully simple. It's possible to have a light hearted story that still is engaging, epic, thought-provoking, and shows character growth.

For a fine example of that, I point you to the following...

This is the type story is what I want Sonic to strive for. The characters were interesting and likable, there was a feeling of urgency, and you always felt like you were doing something for a reason. But it still managed to occur in a cartoony, fun universe. Definitely what I want out of Sonic.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Blazing Inferno

[Kuzu]

The tone of the story is completely different from how its structured, the latter is what you're referring to.

Generations is no more light on its story than S3&K, S3&K just has better transitions between the levels and its story is told from the events taking place, therefore making it the better story.

And oh boy another "Baw I hate Light Stories, give me mah Darkness and angst".

Edited November 8, 2011 by Shadic93

[Blacklightning]

Oh for FUCK's sake.

A LIGHT HEARTED STORY IS NOT INHERENTLY A SHALLOW STORY. THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE STILL THINK LIKE THIS.

[Riverstone]

lol, it doesnt have to be dark or angst, just engaing, epicand the feeling that what you're doing is actually worthwhile. I havn't played the papaer mario games but I can understand what you mean and that kind of style would definitely work as well. Which ever way it is portrayed, either in level or cutscenes, I just want to be playing with purpose, urgency and emotion.

After working 5 days a week, you dont wanna come home and chore it out completing each level for nothing

[Kuzu]

Oh for FUCK's sake.

A LIGHT HEARTED STORY IS NOT INHERENTLY A SHALLOW STORY. THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE STILL THINK LIKE THIS.

[Dr. Mechano]

Oh for FUCK's sake.

A LIGHT HEARTED STORY IS NOT INHERENTLY A SHALLOW STORY. THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE STILL THINK LIKE THIS.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Riverstone]

So you guys actually like the new sonic that doesnt give a fuck anymore about anything. He just does it for shits and giggles. Yeah, some hero...

That is the direction of sonic games now. I dont want dark overloards or that shit, i Just want a fucking serious story that evolves throughout each level. If you wanna complete every level for no reason and have sonic and robotnick make jokes and tickle eachother, then be my guest. but sonic will never get past an 8.5 rating and everyone will slowly get sick of it

[Blacklightning]

lol, it doesnt have to be dark or angst, just engaing, epicand the feeling that what you're doing is actually worthwhile. I havn't played the papaer mario games but I can understand what you mean and that kind of style would definitely work as well. Which ever way it is portrayed, either in level or cutscenes, I just want to be playing with purpose, urgency and emotion.

After working 5 days a week, you dont wanna come home and chore it out completing each level for nothing

[Dr. Mechano]

If you wanna complete every level for no reason and have sonic and robotnick make jokes and tickle eachother, then be my guest.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Noir]

Sonic has always done things for shits and giggles, it's his personality. He fights Eggman to beat boredom just as much as he does to save the world. And honestly that makes for a better hero than the generic good guy.

Honestly it's hard to respond directly to this thread when you aren't even sure what you're talking about. Either way, neither serious stories or complexity is something Sonic needs and the former is something it specifically does not need. Lightheartedness and simplicity are not inherently bad aspects of a story as surprising as some people may find that. What matters is how well it's written and presented, which is an entirely different subject. If you really wanted I'm sure I and plenty others could list for you a good number of varied stories that range from light to dark, shallow to deep, and all of great quality because they were done well.

[Jacky]

I think SEGA realized the grimdark crappy melodramatic stories DO NOT BELONG in Sonic, ergo we get these silly, awesome, light-hearted, and simple plots these pasts few games, which works.

if they could get a intricate story in a very easy to swallow and well written way, like say, Ratchet and Clank, then that would be oh so welcome.

[Flyboy Fox]

So you guys actually like the new sonic that doesnt give a fuck anymore about anything. He just does it for shits and giggles. Yeah, some hero...

[Badnik Mechanic]

So you guys actually like the new sonic that doesnt give a fuck anymore about anything. He just does it for shits and giggles. Yeah, some hero...

Edited November 8, 2011 by Hogfather

[Jacky]

So you guys actually like the new sonic that doesnt give a fuck anymore about anything. He just does it for shits and giggles. Yeah, some hero...

That is the direction of sonic games now. I dont want dark overloards or that shit, i Just want a fucking serious story that evolves throughout each level. If you wanna complete every level for no reason and have sonic and robotnick make jokes and tickle eachother, then be my guest. but sonic will never get past an 8.5 rating and everyone will slowly get sick of it

[Burnt Ash]

Sonic's always had sarcasm/humor, even in the Adventures; it's part of what makes Sonic stories 'engaging' and 'epic' or 'cool'.

For example, these lines in SA2:

"You've turned into a big time villain doctor!"

or

"I don't know what this space colony is about but I'll find and destroy that cannon...and then kick their emperial butts!"

It's cool, and it keeps the pace of the game going. EDIT: It doesn't have to be all grimdark and angsty all the time. Take Mario and Luigi PiT, it's epic but it has lots of humor inside of it as well. That's basically what Sonic is. It's epic, but also lighthearted at the same time. EDIT 2: Examples: Unleashed, SA1/2, Colors, very few parts of ShTH.

Edited November 8, 2011 by thebluehedgehog

[Nintendoga]

It's not that we don't want any more darkhearted stories, it's just that they took themselves too seriously with them.

I mean come on-

*A girl dies on an ark 50 years ago, so the grandpa went insane and tried to destroy the earth

*An Alien Race comes to take over the world, and a hedgehog with a gun has to stop them

*Another Girl gets a power inside of her where if she was to cry, A monster would come and turn the world into a post-apocalyptic wasteland

*Eggman goes to the library to find another MOTW tablet, to release an ancient evil which will destroy the planet (Okay this one isn't that serious)

Colors and Generations was a breath of fresh air from the dark mature stories of a blue cartoon hedgehog fighting an Egg-shaped scientist. Colors was lighthearted with it's comedic dialogue and characters that never took themselves seriously unless the situation called for it. It also had a (Well I wouldn't say deep but) interesting plot line that didn't involve any MotW, Evil Alien race, Dark Pasts, or "Too Mature for it's on good" plots.

Generations on the other hand, is a simplistic story. I will give the writers credit for the concept of the plot, but the execution was terrible. There was barely any plot, and the fact that this is a special game, we fans expected more from Sonic Team. To be honest, the only scenes that have any plot are the intro, Mirror scene, Final Boss Cut scene, and ending, 4 outta 13 cut scenes advanced the plot, and that's no good. Though I will give the writers kudos for the after credits scene, arguably the only funny scene in the game.

Like I said before, the colors writers were not afraid to make fun of themselves and have a deep story to it in Colors. So why they were so shy in Generations, is beyond me.

But let's just hope they don't RUSH the plot in the next game and actually ADVANCE it so the fans don't UNLEASH a wave of disappointment across GENERATIONS, but hey, there's always next ADVENTURE.

(Sorry I had to)

Edited November 8, 2011 by Mike Dawson

[Riverstone]

Wow, you guys really misinterpreted that line, read it again:

"The adreneline and purpose combined with his attitude and seriousness (when its needed only)."

When its needed only. I'd like to see sonic serious MORE often throughout the story. Even at the end of generations he just made fun of the whole situation.

[Nitwit_Speed]

Light stories are not ALWAYS tone, as light has two definitions. Light can be opposed to dark but ALSO opposed to heavy. A story can be light on tone or content. A point constantly brought up is that light toned stories do not always have to be shallow, but a horrible habit has grown in which the idea that light can refer to content is completely stamped out.

The next CoD game could be extremely light in that it has a story full of 30 chore battles and then a final boss, and despite being that much darker and angstier, it equates to Colors' plot.

The preception that light tone and content are intertwined might be blamable on SEGA, considering how when they went into Unleashed and abandoned a serious tone, they left plot content behind. SEGA has yet to prove that we can get light-hearted, and yet serious and meaty, plots in Sonic games.

So while it is heavily implied that this thread refers to tone, content is also disscussable.

[Noir]

Even at the end of generations he just made fun of the whole situation.

Well Sonic's a pretty chill guy.

Now you're just trying to change his personality.

[Blacklightning]

Wow, you guys really misinterpreted that line, read it again:

Translation: "I'm backed into a corner and don't actually have any counterpoints left, so I'm just going to ignore every key argument presented to me and accuse everyone else of misconstrument."

People know exactly what you're talking about and have offered legitimate rebuttals to your exact argument, so I'd suggest going back and replying to some on an individual basis rather than generalizing everyone in the thread who doesn't agree with you. Flyboy in particular probably already said it best, but there's a few points of mine and Mechano's that have gone conveniently ignored, too.

[Flyboy Fox]

When its needed only. I'd like to see sonic serious MORE often throughout the story. Even at the end of generations he just made fun of the whole situation.

But that's who he is. He handled it the way Sonic handles it. Because he's Sonic. And you seem to want him to not be Sonic for some reason.

And although he did keep his lighthearted and fun-loving attitude about the whole ordeal, he didn't just 'make fun of the whole situation.'

Firstly, he (both selves) was only able to defeat the final Time Eater monster form after the encouragement from his friends renewed his spirit, showing that he does value and need them and that he draws strength from their belief in him - a pretty deep concept in itself. Then when they returned to the party, he made that very Sonic-y quip about the chilli dog but then sobered up to say goodbye to his younger self and younger Tails. He supportively and amusedly watched younger Sonic try out a new move, then gave his young self some encouraging words to head off with.

I don't see anything throwaway or cheaply conceived about any of that.

[Nepenthe]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Riverstone isn't really putting his thoughts to word very well, and that many of you have piled too hard on him and further confused his intention and the entire topic as a result. Taking the OP at face value, I think what he wants is stories with better narrative, pacing, and tension regardless of their atmospheric tone, which I can agree with immensely. I don't necessarily agree with the thought that Unleashed lacks this or that these types of stories are seriously bringing down the series' reception, nor do I think he's got the right idea about Sonic's character, but I think he's got an overall agreeable idea nonetheless.

[Exploder]

I will agree that the OP is probably saying the right thing with the wrong words.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but it may have something to do with how the plots in Colors and Generations seem to be railroaded and forced into being light-hearted rather than allowing them to flow naturally. Is that what you are talking about, Riverstone?

The part about Sonic's personality I can't agree with either though.

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

Eh, I like the recent storylines, unlike Sonic Adventure through Sonic Unleashed, they actually have soul. The only thing I care about in storyline is that it's well written. Take, for example, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. One's storyline is dark and complex, the other was lighthearted and shallow, both were poorly written, Colours storyline was lighter and shallower than everything in Heroes, (bar maybe Team Rose's story) but still managed to have one of the best written storylines in the entire series. (subjective) I would like to see something a bit more serious in the next game, but only to the extent of S3&K/SA1.