An Immortal Glass Cannon.

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

What is a feat circus? I don't mean to mock you, I've just honestly never heard this term.

Feats are constructed post of evidential powers that displays a characters strength above other characters and the one with the most impressive feats and showings wins.

I called a feat circus because it's something fans use to gather feats of the characters true showings of applied strengths and it turns into henceforth a circus.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't want Shadow to be a glass cannon for the fact he will be more ass pullish than skilled in a fight. Sasuke Uchiha for example, he can get obliterated in one hit by Naruto's FRS but PIS makes him protected with his unholy god mods of sharingan hax which of course are ass pulls. Sasuke also is the biggest loser in the series, he always gets hyped than gets his ass kicked more by other characters until someone or something saved him at the last minute.

How are his powers of Chaos Control less of an ass pull than the Sharingan.

And that's before you start to realize that a glass cannon is not defined as being an ass pull. A glass cannon has to have a high degree of skill to avoid being defeated to quickly since they don't have a lot of defense, but they're also the kind of characters you don't want to get hit by. I can think of dozens of glass cannons that are not like Sasuke, in fiction and real life.

I don't want Shadow to be the Sasuke, trapped in a never ending unquantifiable feat circus.

Do you watch anything other than Anime?

No actually his body is the source of his speed(He's full of chaos energy). The shoes just compress his chaos energy into movement.

Proof?

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

How are his powers of Chaos Control less of an ass pull than the Sharingan.

And that's before you start to realize that a glass cannon is not defined as being an ass pull. A glass cannon has to have a high degree of skill to avoid being defeated to quickly since they don't have a lot of defense, but they're also the kind of characters you don't want to get hit by. I can think of dozens of glass cannons that are not like Sasuke, in fiction and real life.

Do you watch anything other than Anime?

Proof?

[Kuzu]

And it's not like Sonic isn't hax either, he can go up to 300 miles and hour and blast through steel with pure speed.

[Scar]

Anyways, Heroes says with his powerful body, he can achieve the same speeds as Sonic with ease. Not his hover shoes.

When did it ever say that Shadow was as fast as Sonic without his hover shoes. If he didn't need them, why does he wear them?

The answer is simple. His own internal Chaos Energy sends a limited supply of power to his feet. The energy is them captured and magnified into jets that help him accelerate and maintain speed.

The fact that he wears them at all is proof enough of this concept. If he didn't need them, he wouldn't wear them.

And it's not like Sonic isn't hax either, he can go up to 300 miles and hour and blast through steel with pure speed.

Sonic's speed is his defining trait. Sonic does have a fairly high degree of control over Chaos Energy, as evidenced by the fact that he was able to control his Super State better than Shadow could (resulting in the latter falling to his supposed death). He can also use chaos control, but he chooses not to.

See the difference between Sonic and Shadow, is that in the media (NOT THE GAMES) his powers are overblown. Sonic X made him some next Godmode character that destroyed everything in his way, even though he isn't that powerful.

I think there is a collossal misunderstanding of the term "Ultimate Lifeform"

Shadow wasn't titled that because he's the most powerful being of all time, he was titled that because his creation was supposed aide in the development of medication to cure Maria's illness. By all intents and purposes, Shadow is a living, breathing vaccine. Obviously, Gerald Robotnik saw that the most effective means of acheiving this cure, was to harness the power of Chaos Emeralds to imbue organic matter and life forms with DNA that resisted fatal diseases (I'm going to assume Maria had cancer, which seems to make the most sense). The Biolizard was the first prototype, but was a failure as the absorption of Chaos Radiation (for lack of a better word) resulted in the biolizard requiring its own life support. I'm them going to assume that Gerald in his search for the allusive cure, came across the mural in Hidden Palace, and realised that hedgehogs were the best at conducting and controlling Chaos Energy. This resulted in Shadow the Hedgehog as we know him.

His powers are a mere side-effect of what he was originally intended for.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Chaos Control needs an emerlad to be truly threatening(Without one all he can do is basic stuff like teleport and shoot spear), Sharingan can be achieved by just being being in danger or automatically. Shadow's power of chas energy is dependant on certain levels per chaos emerald, Sasuke's sharingan can already give you copied jutsu, super reflexes and high hypnosis.

They both sound overpowered to me when you put it that way.

Don't compare Shadow to Sasuke.

I didn't.

I just asked how Chaos Control is less of an ass pull than the Sharigan. You should know full well that Sasuke's not the only character in Naruto with a Sharigan, so quit stretching an inch into a mile.

Shadow far better written character and much more likeable.

Only in SA2. Beyond that he's been either inoffensive or poorly written.

Sasuke can't even beat his opponents fair and square.

FYI, ninja's aren't suppose to beat their opponents fair and square, it's called "Unconventional warfare".

But this is completely besides the point.

Anyways, Heroes says with his powerful body, he can achieve the same speeds as Sonic with ease. Not his hover shoes.

Well it definitely doesn't say he can achieve those speeds without them either.

And it's not like Sonic isn't hax either, he can go up to 300 miles and hour and blast through steel with pure speed.

It's called common physics? Something moving really fast is going to hit really hard. Sonic moves up to 761 mph, and getting hit by something at those speeds is beyond deadly.

Heck, on how much force that has. To put it in layman terms, you don't want to get hit by something that fast.

Edited November 9, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

When did it ever say that Shadow was as fast as Sonic without his hover shoes. If he didn't need them, why does he wear them?

The answer is simple. His own internal Chaos Energy sends a limited supply of power to his feet. The energy is them captured and magnified into jets that help him accelerate and maintain speed.

The fact that he wears them at all is proof enough of this concept. If he didn't need them, he wouldn't wear them.

I don't where you got this conjecture, I just go what is in the manual. He might have natural Super Sonic speed like Sonic, along with his strength and abilites with chaos control as a result of being the ultimate lifeform created for weapon purposes. No detailed basis on how Shadow is as fast as the fastest thing alive. But he is.

Sonic's speed is his defining trait. Sonic does have a fairly high degree of control over Chaos Energy, as evidenced by the fact that he was able to control his Super State better than Shadow could (resulting in the latter falling to his supposed death). He can also use chaos control, but he chooses not to.

Sonic is as fast as lighting in Sonic X, and is basically the most overpowered Super Form of all the Sonic character which automatically gives him dues ex machina over anything.

See the difference between Sonic and Shadow, is that in the media (NOT THE GAMES) his powers are overblown. Sonic X made him some next Godmode character that destroyed everything in his way, even though he isn't that powerful.

I think there is a collossal misunderstanding of the term "Ultimate Lifeform"

Except Sonic is no better.

[

Shadow wasn't titled that because he's the most powerful being of all time, he was titled that because his creation was supposed aide in the development of medication to cure Maria's illness. By all intents and purposes, Shadow is a living, breathing vaccine. Obviously, Gerald Robotnik saw that the most effective means of acheiving this cure, was to harness the power of Chaos Emeralds to imbue organic matter and life forms with DNA that resisted fatal diseases (I'm going to assume Maria had cancer, which seems to make the most sense). The Biolizard was the first prototype, but was a failure as the absorption of Chaos Radiation (for lack of a better word) resulted in the biolizard requiring its own life support. I'm them going to assume that Gerald in his search for the allusive cure, came across the mural in Hidden Palace, and realised that hedgehogs were the best at conducting and controlling Chaos Energy. This resulted in Shadow the Hedgehog as we know him.

His powers are a mere side-effect of what he was originally intended for.

Shadow was created as a weapon the ultimate defense against threats against humanity like Black Arms and others. Shadow's the Ultimate because apart from his apparent immortality, he can mold chaos energy and matter into anything he wants with one emerald and use it better than anyone in the series. He controls supernatural power without a emerald, and with one he can basically create anything from Black Holes, to tears in space/time to giant city block blasts.

Thats why he's called the ultimate lifeform. No one is as talented and unqiue with chaos emerald creations as Shadow is.

Plus being he's matches the fastest creature on earth down to the last mile per hour and is equal to his strength which is pretty much the highest a character in this series can be helps to.

Heck due to being proportionate to Sonic means Shadow matches Chaos level with ease.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Chaos Nightmare Moon

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Um...should we even bother arguing with this guy any further?

I know it's fun and all, but it kinda hogs the discussion, and I do get tired of it sometimes. He's clearly a kid with a fanboyish obsession for powerful characters, and he's not likely to change anytime soon, so why beat a dead horse?

Edited November 9, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Flyboy Fox]

Um...should we even bother arguing with this guy any further?

I know it's fun and all, but it kinda hogs the discussion, and I do get tired of it sometimes. He's clearly a kid with a fanboyish obsession for powerful characters, and he's not likely to change anytime soon, so why beat a dead horse?

It's your topic, so, by all means nudge it back on track to what it was originally about - the idea of Shadow being a 'glass cannon' as a means of balancing out his power with a catch. Which, by the way, was a very well thought out opening post, CSS (:

[Kuzu]

It's your topic, so, by all means nudge it back on track to what it was originally about - the idea of Shadow being a 'glass cannon' as a means of balancing out his power with a catch. Which, by the way, was a very well thought out opening post, CSS (:

Hey give me some credit, I gave him the idea.

[Flyboy Fox]

Okay, well then, both of you =P But yes, less circular arguing and more on-topic discussion I guess?

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

They both sound overpowered to me when you put it that way.

I didn't.

I just asked how Chaos Control is less of an ass pull than the Sharigan. You should know full well that Sasuke's not the only character in Naruto with a Sharigan, so quit stretching an inch into a mile.

Any power can techinically be overpowered in fiction, if you put more detail into it.

Shadow treats Chaos Control as an asset to his already powerful skillset, Sasuke needs Sharingan because he's dependant on it most of the fights he's in.

[Kuzu]

Shadow treats Chaos Control as an asset to his already powerful skillset, Sasuke needs Sharingan because he's dependant on it most of the fights he's in.

Aren't most of Shadow's moves based around Chaos Control?

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

Aren't most of Shadow's moves based around Chaos Control?

Chaos Spear and his physical attacks are based on molding energy from his own chaos affinity, not an emerald. Shadow is organic chaos control basically at it's basic form.

[Kuzu]

Chaos Spear and his physical attacks are based on molding energy from his own chaos affinity, not an emerald. Shadow is organic chaos control basically at it's basic form.

....What? No seriously, where the hell is it ever said that he's Chaos Control? All of his moves are based on the damn move.

[Indigo Rush]

Chaos Nightmare Moon, where do you get your information from? Because it sounds like fanfiction.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Shadow can shoot energy blasts, teleport himself and other things, and stop time, and...I think that's pretty much everything chaos related he can do?

Edit: I think Chaos Nightmare Moon might have just been trying to say that Shadow can use chaos powers without an emerald. Then again, if I'm wrong, he or she can correct me.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Blazey Psychounicorn

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

....What? No seriously, where the hell is it ever said that he's Chaos Control? All of his moves are based on the damn move.

Shadow can teleport, shoort beams from his hand, and freakin boost in base mode without a use ofr an emerald. Chaos Control is warping time and space on a grander scale with the use of a emerald and his natural powers increase as well.

[Kuzu]

Shadow can teleport, shoort beams from his hand, and freakin boost in base mode without a use ofr an emerald. Chaos Control is warping time and space on a grander scale with the use of a emerald and his natural powers increase as well.

Those are Chaos Powers, which Chaos Control is also apart of.

[#EndyGate]

Shadow can teleport, shoort beams from his hand, and freakin boost in base mode without a use ofr an emerald. Chaos Control is warping time and space on a grander scale with the use of a emerald and his natural powers increase as well.

If this deals with Generations, he was technically guarding an emerald and likely used it during their fight

[Blazey Firekitty]

Shadic, Nightmare Moon, no offense, but I think you guys are agreeing with each other, but using different words.

I think it would be easiest to just say "Shadow can use chaos control anytime he wants because he's designed to do that." Which is the same as saying "all his moves use chaos control" or "he is the embodiment of chaos control."

[Kuzu]

Shadic, Nightmare Moon, no offense, but I think you guys are agreeing with each other, but using different words.

I think it would be easiest to just say "Shadow can use chaos control anytime he wants because he's designed to do that." Which is the same as saying "all his moves use chaos control" or "he is the embodiment of chaos control."

Being the embodiment of Chaos Control would mean he's Chaos Control incarnate, which makes no sense, its easier to say that he's the most proficient user of the move.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Being the embodiment of Chaos Control would mean he's Chaos Control incarnate, which makes no sense, its easier to say that he's the most proficient user of the move.

Sounds like a fair enough compromise.

I guess if Shadow were "glass cannon" with strong offensive moves, but weak defense, he could use teleportation as his main method of reducing the damage he takes. Float like a butterfly, sting like a me. Basically he'd be in the most trouble against an enemy that could hit him very accurately, making dodging useless and forcing him to rely on the brute strength of pure firepower.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Blazey Psychounicorn

[The Kid]

Well... doesn't shadow need those skate shoes of his to actually keep up with Sonic? He could be more balanced if those were taken away.

I had a more detailed response, but I sort of lost interest when I saw a debate going on between Sasuke and Shadow's ability's. From a character's standpoint Shadow seems way too overpowered, but then again so does Silver.

[Flyboy Fox]

Sounds like a fair enough compromise.

I guess if Shadow were "glass cannon" with strong offensive moves, but weak defense, he could use teleportation as his main method of reducing the damage he takes. Float like a butterfly, sting like a me. Basically he'd be in the most trouble against an enemy that could hit him very accurately, making dodging useless and forcing him to rely on the brute strength of pure firepower.

Sting like a you, Blazey? Suddenly I'm a little scared XD

I'd actually to know, once and for all, how much speed Shadow has without his boots, and how manoeuvrable he'd be in a fight if he were stripped of them. He probably would have to rely on teleportation to get behind/around Sonic for an attack if his speed dropped enough.