An Immortal Glass Cannon.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sting like a you, Blazey? Suddenly I'm a little scared XD

Oh, wow. XD Maybe we should all be a little scared. XD

It would be interesting to know, once and for all, if Shadow actually needs those shoes or not to go fast.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Any power can techinically be overpowered in fiction, if you put more detail into it.

As would be the case for Shadow given how his power can potentially be used.

Shadow treats Chaos Control as an asset to his already powerful skillset, Sasuke needs Sharingan because he's dependant on it most of the fights he's in.

Well in that case, it kinda says more about the character who uses it the least then, huh?

Edited November 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

If this deals with Generations, he was technically guarding an emerald and likely used it during their fight

Well thats proven wrong since you can fight Shadow again and doesn't posses a emerald on him story wise.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Well thats proven wrong since you can fight Shadow again and doesn't posses a emerald on him story wise.

I'm not saying that he necessarily used it during the fight, but if him having an emerald isn't canon to the story, how could Sonic have gotten the emerald?

[Sparky]

Shadow can use CHaos Powers without an emerald. But his powers are more efficient and powerful with an Emerald.

[Darth InVaders]

In the games (which seems to be the main area of discussion here), Chaos Control requires an Emerald to be within the vicinity to draw power from... see my thread here

I don't believe Shadow is really overpowered - at base he is almost exactly like Sonic in abilities and there is not really a large gap between the main fighters of the series:

Shadow has been canonically stated to be equal to Sonic

Since Knuckles is canonically stated to be equal to Sonic also, logically he is equal to Shadow as well (transitive relationship: if A=B and B=C then A=C)

Rouge is not that far behind

Omega was able to defeat Shadow in a tangent timeline's future

Silver can fight him to a draw

[Scar]

Well thats proven wrong since you can fight Shadow again and doesn't posses a emerald on him story wise.

Gameplay purposes. Are you being intentionally ignorant to support your statements.

Saying that when you fight him after you defeated him during the story proves he doesn't need the Chaos Emerald, is like saying that Station Square was rebuilt minutes after Perfect Chaos was defeated if you decide to go back to the hubworld post-game.

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

Gameplay purposes. Are you being intentionally ignorant to support your statements.

Saying that when you fight him after you defeated him during the story proves he doesn't need the Chaos Emerald, is like saying that Station Square was rebuilt minutes after Perfect Chaos was defeated if you decide to go back to the hubworld post-game.

Shadow has not shown using it's power or applications. Therefore he didn't use it. I said he can be fought again, without the emerald in possession because cannon wise, Shadow accepts Sonic's challenge again and nothing changes in his powerset.

In the games (which seems to be the main area of discussion here), Chaos Control requires an Emerald to be within the vicinity to draw power from... see my thread here

I don't believe Shadow is really overpowered - at base he is almost exactly like Sonic in abilities and there is not really a large gap between the main fighters of the series:

Shadow has been canonically stated to be equal to Sonic

Since Knuckles is canonically stated to be equal to Sonic also, logically he is equal to Shadow as well (transitive relationship: if A=B and B=C then A=C)

Rouge is not that far behind

Omega was able to defeat Shadow in a tangent timeline's future

Silver can fight him to a draw

Only feats matter.

Shadow is the stongest of the 4 based on feats.

[Kuzu]

Only feats matter.

Shadow is the stongest of the 4 based on feats.

Nobody cares about feats, we're basing this off of what's been stated and what has happened.

And its been stated both Shadow & Knuckles are equals to Sonic, therefore it doesn't take a genius to assume Shadow & Knuckles are evil.

But if you want to count feats so badly, Knuckles is stronger just being able to punch out Super Sonic, something Shadow hasn't even gotten close to doing.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Shadic93

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

Shadow fought a part of Solaris in Super Form. The strongest living entity in the Sonic series.

Therefore feat wise, Shadow > Knuckles.

Knuckles got beat by Sonic eventually anyways, so that just means by proxy Sonic is stronger than Knuckles without Super Form and no Super Form Sucker Punch would change things because Sonic defeat Knuckles then to if he was paying attention to his surrounding.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

EDIT: Wait, why the heck was I arguing taking part in this?

Let's discuss how Shadow can be balanced out before I personally get both Flyboy AND Sean here to lay the smack down on the topic. This is your only warning.

Edited November 11, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Scar]

Shadow has not shown using it's power or applications. Therefore he didn't use it. I said he can be fought again, without the emerald in possession because cannon wise, Shadow accepts Sonic's challenge again and nothing changes in his powerset.

He can be fought again because its a game. No matter how many times you walk up to challenge Shadow, he will always accept your fight, irrespective of how many emeralds he has. Shadow has been programmed to be able to fight you after you took the chaos emerald from him. It suggests nothing about his power.

[Burnt Ash]

Shadow fought a part of Solaris in Super Form. The strongest living entity in the Sonic series.

Knuckles got beat by Sonic eventually anyways

If you're referring to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles fight, Sonic was actually paying attention when he was fighting in Hidden Palace Zone.

If you're referring to the Sonic Adventure fight, both of them lost.

Knuckles has lost to Sonic only once (as far as my knowledge goes), whereas Shadow has lost or tied to Sonic every single time (yes, even in SA2) with the exception of his own game and when he and Sonic 'tied' in Green Forest.

[Sonictrainer]

Would Shadow have been able to defeat Mephiles without the help of Rouge and Omega?

[Kuzu]

Would Shadow have been able to defeat Mephiles without the help of Rouge and Omega?

...They were helping?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

...They were helping?

Not by fighting, if you want to be straight about it.

[Kuzu]

Hey, I finally found an analogy for Shadow that works, if going by fighting game logic.

Sonic is Ryu(The main central character)

Tails & Knuckles are Ken(Similar moves to Ryu but have their own to be different)

Shadow is obviously Akuma (Ryu taken up to 11).

Think of it that way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hey, I finally found an analogy for Shadow that works, if going by fighting game logic.

Sonic is Ryu(The main central character)

Tails & Knuckles are Ken(Similar moves to Ryu but have their own to be different)

Shadow is obviously Akuma (Ryu taken up to 11).

Think of it that way.

Yeah, one is a basic, the other two are variants, and the last one is either a game breaker at worst or a glass cannon at best.

Let's use Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Airbending - evasive, dodgy, hard to hit, and very agile, doesn't kill = Sonic

Earthbending - firm, solid, forceful, very hard to take down = Knuckles

Waterbending - fluid, relaxed, patient, uses your force against you = Tails (?)

Firebending - ferocious, powerful, relentless, lacks many defensive capabilities = Shadow

Then there's Metalbending, Sandbending, Bloodbending, Lightning Bending/Redirecting, Energybending.

...

That's a lot of bending.

[Kuzu]

Yeah, one is a basic, the other two are variants, and the last one is either a game breaker at worst or a glass cannon at best.

Let's use Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Airbending - evasive, dodgy, hard to hit, and very agile, doesn't kill = Sonic

Earthbending - firm, solid, forceful, very hard to take down = Knuckles

Waterbending - fluid, relaxed, patient, uses your force against you = Tails (?)

Firebending - ferocious, powerful, relentless, lacks many defensive capabilities = Shadow

Then there's Metalbending, Sandbending, Bloodbending, Lightning Bending/Redirecting, Energybending.

...

That's a lot of bending.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Though Shadow being a game breaker wouldn't be all that bad if he was the hardest character to master. That way his brokeness has to be earned and he can't be abused by everyone. A case of Difficult, but Awesome.

I don't know. Not that I can't understand what you're going for, but we're not trying to go for a gamebreaker at all. We're trying to go for a character that even if mastered can still be beaten by someone with skill and some ingenuity against him.

They can be difficult, but awesome, but they still need to be beatable, and a gamebreaker does all but the last one.

Edited November 23, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

I don't know. Not that I can't understand what you're going for, but we're not trying to go for a gamebreaker at all. We're trying to go for a character that even if mastered can still be beaten by someone with skill and some ingenuity against him.

They can be difficult, but awesome, but they still need to be beatable, and a gamebreaker does all but the last one.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I still want to avoid having a gamebreaker, tho. That's the point of the topic. Give it far more balance than that.