Was Generations Rushed?

[Badnik Mechanic 34,007]

Depending who you are, the majority of people would agree that Generations is somewhere between a great and an amazing game.

Lets not take that away from it, Generations is a pretty good game.

But with that said, the more I play it, the more I use the items and look at the levels, the more I can't help but feel it might have been a little rushed.

Lets go back in time to Sonic 2006, we all know that game was rushed, doesn't matter why, the point is, it was rushed, and it's a very bad game because they didn't 'fix' the big problems before it was released. It's a bad game, just for the technical issues alone, leave aside the story, characters, dialogue, level design and all the other things we usually moan about.

So we have 2 Sonic games, both at the completely opposite ends of quality, one was clearly rushed for release... but what of Generations? Could it be argued that it was rushed?

Theres a number of things in the game that just don't feel complete, or feel like they needed much more testing that they actually got.

Super Sonic: Lets get this one out of the way first... Super Sonic, both classic and modern... is quite naff. The problem with both of them is that they just don't feel... well... super.

We all have memories of playing as Super Sonic in Sonic 2 and 3, going so fast being so unstoppable that sometimes the game would break, Whilst I was under no illusion that this wouldn't be exactly like that, I was a little shocked at how poor he actually plays, for instance his speed, he just... doesn't feel like he's running as fast as the normal classic Sonic, whilst he does jump higher and has increased abilities (you can tell for certain if you play GHZ, that spring which takes you to the floating platform (where you have to jump on the Buzzbomber to take the higher path, you will usually overshoot it without much effort compared to normal classic sonic).

But it just feels so slow and bad compared to the normal Sonic, I have to question what the point of it is?

Modern Super Sonic. Alright, there is a huge difference compared to the regular normal Sonic, but the main gripe I have is that modern Super Sonic is only useful if you boost... but... that totally drains your rings in seconds...

The issue I've got with Super Sonic (modern) by the time you have enough rings to make boosting as Super Sonic a viable option you're over 3/4's of the way through the stage, with the exception of Planet Wisp, these portions are normally a striaght boost with a few obsticles in the way, so is there really a use for Super Sonic other than these final moments?

It just feels that both Super forms were either not tested enough, or the stages should be adapted for them, they need a lot more rings at the start of the stage (modern especially) otherwise it's a pointless ability that can't possibly last, or be triggered long enough to have a significant impact on the game.

That said however... using modern super sonic in the end of the Green Hill Zone... .. ... how many of you gasped when you saw that hidden scenery?

Whatever happened to the CG sequences?: In nearly every trailer that Sega released, we had a CG sequence, it was a CG sequence that first introduced classic Tails for one thing. Then there was that sequence of modern and classic Sonic in City Escape which looked amazing.

Where are they?

Alright so they're not in the story, but they're not anywhere in the game either (well unless they're unused files), You don't get them as an unlockable for getting S-ranks, nothing for beating the game.

Even if Sonic Unleashed, those scenes with Sonic and Chip ended up as being in the game as unlockable rewards. But in Generations... the CG sequences are nowhere to be seen?

Does this not strike you as being a bit odd? They put all that effort into making those short sequences look amazing, but they're not in the final game? Why?

Tails was supposed to act as an interpreter? Classic Sonic wouldn't speak, but classic Tails would interprit for him... I wasn't too fond of this, a lot of others were not fond of it either. But it was mentioned and believed to be true for a long time.

Now classic Sonic does use a lot of gesture and facial expressions instead of voice, you the player can more or less tell what classic Sonic is thinking/trying to say.

But Classic Tails doesn't do anything that would suggest a role of interpreter, was this totally cut? Or something that was a mistake and never originally intended? Only if it was cut, it must have been quite a substantial cut, otherwise why even mention it.

There is no reward for S-ranking everything: This is really strange, if you S rank all levels, all missions on every mode, there is no reward for it, has this ever happened before? From what I've seen theres always been a reward of some kind, wasn't there also a reward for doing all 300 odd paths in Shadows game? But here theres nothing, no final bonus unlockable, no trophy/achievment, no hidden message, absolutely nothing.

Am I the only one a little suprised by this? Otherwise why even have ranks on the missions at all? Whilst beating the missions contributes to unlockables, actually going the extra mile and getting an S rank doesn't reward the player. This seems odd to me.

The final boss and 'that' cut scene: The final boss in this game is quite bad, theres a lot of bugs in it and... well... I think theres a homing shot... but I'm not sure... oh wait yes I am. Why didn't anyone say "I don't think they need to say that as often as they do," they only needed to say it once, or maybe twice... not every second of the fight!

It's not very clear what you have to do when the fight starts, even if you hold down the boost button, you must be positioned in just the right area or else you can't close in on the boss, or even damage him.

Switching to classic super Sonic... I've read that it is possible to damage the boss in this mode, but when you do, the game glitches and it's impossible to continue the stage, forcing you to restart. This seems utterly crazy, why even have this as an option if you can't harm the boss in this mode?

Then theres the cut scene before the boss, when Sonics friends appear... count the number of times they say "Sonic" this is kinda bad writing, it's the worst bit in the whole game for me (in terms of dialogue) it's so unessesary for them to all say "Sonic," it might sounds stupid, but from every perspective be it financial or length of time to make the characters actually say that word, it really doesn't need to be said by every character in their own individual line.

Well I've gone on long enough about this.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but theres just little things in it that keep popping up that I just can't help but think 'it's been rushed' or that could have benefitted from a lot more testing or thought.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Hogfather

[Stritix 740]

I'd say it was They should have scrapped Sonic Colours, and spent that time working on Sonic Generations.

[Soniman 16,584]

I'd say it was They should have scrapped Sonic Colours, and spent that time working on Sonic Generations.

The storybook team worked on Colors genius, not Sonic Team

Edited November 12, 2011 by Soniman032-

[Blue Blood 29,398]

Linking to TSSZ, but Classic Sonic was NEVER supposed to have a voice. That misconception needs to be done away with.

[Swiss 1,641]

Didn't it take them 3 years to make?

[Blue Blood 29,398]

Didn't it take them 3 years to make?

That doesn't have any bearing on whether or not it was rushed. Fact is, with Sonic games they're always released in time for Christmas. They dev team might have wanted another 6 months to work on the game, but that would simply be out of the question.

[Neon 2,604]

I'm pretty sure some things changed during development. The demo itself listed 13 CGI cutscenes in the game.

Cutscene list from early demo...

1 SEGA Logo Cutscene

11 CG Cutscenes

1 Credits 1

9 Story Cutscenes [in-Game]

17 NPC Character Cutscenes

11 Rival Cutscenes

14 Viewer Cutscenes

Specific List of CG Cutscenes:

-SEGA Logo

-Opening Movie

-Store Begin

-After Green Hill Zone

-After Area 1

-After Death Egg

-After Area 2

-After Perfect Chaos

-After Area 3

-After New Eggrobo

-Before time Eater

-Credits

-Story End

As you can clearly see, most of this wasn't in the game.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Neon

[Badnik Mechanic 34,007]

Linking to TSSZ, but Classic Sonic was NEVER supposed to have a voice. That misconception needs to be done away with.

Alrighty then.

Ammended that bit to just be about Classic Tails' role as interpreter.

[Spooky Mulder 2,000]

Time to break out my inner Mulder and tell you my little conspiracy theory...

I think there were CGI sequences meant to be used in the game, but the story was changed at some point for whatever reason and so they had to be scrapped; either due to time constraints, budget constraints, or both, they had to replace them with the simplistic, seemingly rushed cutscenes that we got.

SEGA's CGI studio is fantastic and has produced some amazing stuff for the series, I can't believe that they wouldn't have used them for the 20th Anniversary title. Plus, something about the first glimpse we got of the Time Eater in the Bosses/Rivals trailer makes me feel like that was definitely supposed to be a scene in the game.

[Soniman 16,584]

Did Classic Tails even interpret for Classic Sonic like.....at all?

[Emmett L. Brown 3,046]

These arguments are weak.

You're saying at the same time that Super Sonic has been changed too much and saying it hasn't been changed enough to differentiate it from normal Sonic. Yes, having Modern Super be more of a portable shortcut than the usual level-spanning power-up is an unpopular design choice, but there's no reason to call it a hasty one.

I believe the CG sequences were removed to take advantage of the 3D TV feature. If I'm wrong, it still doesn't prove the game was rushed, since it would actually require less effort to just leave the CG in.

Classic Sonic being silent is explicitly a design choice. Using it as evidence of rushing is ridiculous.

There was no reward for S-ranking everything in Unleashed or Colors either. It's not new, and it's not a rush factor.

The final boss should have had more playtesting. I completely agree with you on that. But it still doesn't prove the game was rushed. I still think it's a fun boss once you learn how to play it.

[Detective Shadzter 6,098]

Switching to classic super Sonic... I've read that it is possible to damage the boss in this mode, but when you do, the game glitches and it's impossible to continue the stage, forcing you to restart. This seems utterly crazy, why even have this as an option if you can't harm the boss in this mode?

I beat the boss the first time with Classic Super Sonic alone. The game doesn't glitch, freeze or break down by attacking the boss in this mode at all.

[Djawed 167]

No way it was in development for 3 years. Maybe a little bit before colors

[sonfan1984 2,253]

I'd say it was They should have scrapped Sonic Colours, and spent that time working on Sonic Generations.

Yeah, they should have scrapped a good Sonic game in favor for this. That's a great idea.

That was uncalled for... Well, the storybook team should have helped out with Sonic Generations, instead of working on Sonic Colours.

If they have done that then there wouldn't be any exclusive main series console Sonic game(s) on the Wii. The Wii owners would've been stuck with the Mario and Sonic and the storybook games.

Edited November 12, 2011 by sonfan1984

[Stritix 740]

The storybook team worked on Colors genius, not Sonic Team

That was uncalled for... Well, the storybook team should have helped out with Sonic Generations, instead of working on Sonic Colours.

[Diogenes 43,126]

There is no reward for S-ranking everything: This is really strange, if you S rank all levels, all missions on every mode, there is no reward for it, has this ever happened before?

Er, yeah. I think the last major game to have a reward for all S-ranks (though it was A-ranks back then) was ShtH. '06 didn't (though they very well may have planned to have one, but, well, '06), Unleashed didn't (in either version), and Colors didn't (the Wii version, anyway; I think the DS version unlocked infinite boost?).

[Semi-colon e 2,026]

I'm not sure I'd say rushed, but it seems like there's a scene or two missing in the story. And perhaps those trailer CG scenes were just for the trailers, though that's odd behaviour for a Sonic game. I guess being in development and conception for so long probably made a lot of things change, especially after Colours came out.

I'd say the story feels incomplete though, like how Classic Tails just appears out of nowhere, and that there are only cutscenes in the first 2 zones. Maybe at some point they just decided to stop making cutscenes for some of the levels as it might have seemed redundant? I dunno tbh.

[Blue Blood 29,398]

Not all of the extra skills seem to have been properly tested. For example, Ring Time breaks Rooftop Run Act 1 and the insta-shield makes progression across enemy chains much more difficult. There's also the matter of only GHZ and SSZ having high-speed variants for Act 2.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Badnik Mechanic 34,007]

Er, yeah. I think the last major game to have a reward for all S-ranks (though it was A-ranks back then) was ShtH. '06 didn't (though they very well may have planned to have one, but, well, '06), Unleashed didn't (in either version), and Colors didn't (the Wii version, anyway; I think the DS version unlocked infinite boost?).

I thought that unleashed had a final unlockable for getting top ranks? I could have sworn that someone on here said there was a final video if you got the top rank in every stage.

[Blue Blood 29,398]

I thought that unleashed had a final unlockable for getting top ranks? I could have sworn that someone on here said there was a final video if you got the top rank in every stage.

Nothing at all.

[Emmett L. Brown 3,046]

In fact, I shall turn your arguments upside-down and use them as proof that the game wasn't rushed, but polished:

Super Sonic:

- Gets a brand new ability he's never had before, and one that had to be mapped to every single act to set triggers for where it could be activated and where it could not.

Cutscenes:

- There's no CG, but the team went the extra mile to record extra cutscenes depending on which Sonic you play as. The Mirror and Seaside Hill cutscenes are noticably different, not to mention the secondary characters after being unfrozen.

Silent Sonic:

- Has just as much personality as his counterpart, because he emotes in every scene, and that's effort to script and program. The amount of non-repeated gestures he has is impressive.

No S-rank reward:

- But this game has the highest amount of collectables and extras of any Sonic game ever made ever.

Final boss sucks:

- But at the same time the team took the effort to add Hard modes to all the bosses of the game, and make seven unique bosses where none of them are reruns with more lasers. That's more boss content than Unleashed and Colors ever had to offer.

[Marcello 11,064]

Switching to classic super Sonic... I've read that it is possible to damage the boss in this mode, but when you do, the game glitches and it's impossible to continue the stage, forcing you to restart. This seems utterly crazy, why even have this as an option if you can't harm the boss in this mode?

What? I always hurt him as Classic.

[Badnik Mechanic 34,007]

Super Sonic:

- Gets a brand new ability he's never had before, and one that had to be mapped to every single act to set triggers for where it could be activated and where it could not.

But the problem is that it's useless, to the point where each stage means that you can't trigger Super Sonic unless you reach a specific area in each stage, first point is when you get 50 rings (obviously), but to actually use every move in modern super sonics set, you can't trigger it at that moment, the second point is where you have enough rings to be able to use the boost ability without it being used up too quickly, and then take into consideration if theres any rings in that area which can prolong the ability.

It doesn't feel like this move was tested anywhere near as much as it should be, otherwise I don't think they would have made the rings drain as quickly as they do when you use it.

I've found that you really need to have 70-100 rings when you use the transformation to keep the boost going for a long time (as you're also picking up rings) so that you feel it's working and worthwhile, but even in GHZ, unless you're playing the level very slowly and going off course to pick up every ring, the soonest you can do is is just before/just after the cave scene.

Cutscenes:

- There's no CG, but the team went the extra mile to record extra cutscenes depending on which Sonic you play as. The Mirror and Seaside Hill cutscenes are noticably different, not to mention the secondary characters after being unfrozen.

But that doesn't explain why they didn't even put the CG sequences which they must have worked hard on even in the game as an unlockable?

Silent Sonic:

- Has just as much personality as his counterpart, because he emotes in every scene, and that's effort to script and program. The amount of non-repeated gestures he has is impressive.

I never said he didn't... in fact I said that you can tell what he's saying without the need for a voice, the question was the mention by Iizuka that Classic Tails would be a voice for him, yet theres no sign of that, so if it was cut out, why was it cut? And how much of it got cut out? Because finding the answer to this might shine light onto the original script and story length.

No S-rank reward:

- But this game has the highest amount of collectables and extras of any Sonic game ever made ever.

Thats all very well... but it still doesn't explain why theres absolutely nothing for getting S-ranks in all the stages.

Final boss sucks:

- But at the same time the team took the effort to add Hard modes to all the bosses of the game, and make seven unique bosses where none of them are reruns with more lasers. That's more boss content than Unleashed and Colors ever had to offer.

But what does hard mode have to do with the fact that the last boss has a lot of bugs in it and isn't designed very well?

What? I always hurt him as Classic.

Meh, I blame ps3trophies.org for that one, lots of people were saying they couldn't do it.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Hogfather

[Chaos Warp 3,168]

It may have been rushed, but at least SEGA put most of the time they had into the gameplay.

[Sonictrainer 5,174]

Cutscenes:

- There's no CG, but the team went the extra mile to record extra cutscenes depending on which Sonic you play as. The Mirror and Seaside Hill cutscenes are noticably different, not to mention the secondary characters after being unfrozen.

Yet, they didn't make it so that you unlock all cutscenes regardless of how you play the game, like in Colors.