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Was Generations Rushed?

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But the problem is that it's useless, to the point where each stage means that you can't trigger Super Sonic unless you reach a specific area in each stage, first point is when you get 50 rings (obviously), but to actually use every move in modern super sonics set, you can't trigger it at that moment, the second point is where you have enough rings to be able to use the boost ability without it being used up too quickly, and then take into consideration if theres any rings in that area which can prolong the ability.

It doesn't feel like this move was tested anywhere near as much as it should be, otherwise I don't think they would have made the rings drain as quickly as they do when you use it.

I've found that you really need to have 70-100 rings when you use the transformation to keep the boost going for a long time (as you're also picking up rings) so that you feel it's working and worthwhile, but even in GHZ, unless you're playing the level very slowly and going off course to pick up every ring, the soonest you can do is is just before/just after the cave scene.

Super Sonic's rubbishness can't have gone unnoticed. I agree with you there.

But that doesn't explain why they didn't even put the CG sequences which they must have worked hard on even in the game as an unlockable?
The CG stuff is outsourced to other divisions of SEGA (VE Animation?) or other companies entirely. Why so much was cut from the final game in regards to them is anyone's guess, but I doubt it was because of rushing.

I never said he didn't... in fact I said that you can tell what he's saying without the need for a voice, the question was the mention by Iizuka that Classic Tails would be a voice for him, yet theres no sign of that, so if it was cut out, why was it cut? And how much of it got cut out? Because finding the answer to this might shine light onto the original script and story length.
This is an odd one we need to know more about really. Considering the patheticness of the story, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot was cut down along the way.

Thats all very well... but it still doesn't explain why theres absolutely nothing for getting S-ranks in all the stages.
There hasn't been reward for rankings since Hard Mode on ShTH.

But what does hard mode have to do with the fact that the last boss has a lot of bugs in it and isn't designed very well?
Definitely not a properly refined part of the game. At all.

Meh, I blame ps3trophies.org for that one, lots of people were saying they couldn't do it.
Hm, well some people might be having problems. And regardless, the PC version is loaded with these kinds of issues. For one the co-op Rouge mission in Seaside Hill is prone to crashing simply by defeating Egg Pawns.

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Oh another thing that seems odd: the bosses.

It's kind of strange that Classic Sonic fights only two bosses, while Modern Sonic fights four. With respect to bosses, the game is totally imbalanced.

Also, the first two Rivals are fought in distinct environments (Metal in Stardust Speedway, Shadow in the Ark) then Silver just shows up in Crisis City. I wonder if they didn't have time to create all new assets for the battle.

Edited by Spooky Mulder

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Oh another thing that seems odd: the bosses.

It's kind of strange that Classic Sonic fights only two bosses, while Modern Sonic fights four. With respect to bosses, the game is totally imbalanced.

Also, the first two Rivals are fought in distinct environments (Metal in Stardust Speedway, Shadow in the Ark) then Silver just shows up in Crisis City. I wonder if they didn't have time to create all new assets for the battle.

Maybe for practicality? Had it been in Soleanna Castle Town, what could he have attacked you with? The fight heavily relies on the trash he uses against you. I dunno, I guess it could've been done in Soleanna, though..

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Actually I've just been reminded of something else which is quite a big thing when you look into it.

The Statue Room

This is the secret area in 'Sonic's Room,' these are the secret statues that you unlock if you enter the correct codes at the keypad/lock screen.

Now... had these codes not been 'hacked' is there any way at all in the game to actually find just one code? Even the official guide doesn't have them printed it (I don't own it but nobody has said otherwise so unless anyone can correct me on that...)

I know that theres supposed to be something with Marks and Spencers where you can get 'one' promotional code... yet both M&S and Segas Europes own Head Office know nothing about this. I guess it's supposed to be for some kind of future promotion... but nothing has come of it so far. But is it not odd that theres this mysterious room where you can unlock stuff... yet theres no mention how to do this in the game? Let alone actually access the room itself?

Edited by Hogfather

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Oh another thing that seems odd: the bosses.

It's kind of strange that Classic Sonic fights only two bosses, while Modern Sonic fights four. With respect to bosses, the game is totally imbalanced.

Classic Sonic has to compete against Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Rouge, Charmy, and Blaze and defeat Metal Sonic and Death Egg Robot.

Modern Sonic has to compete against Modern Tails, Espio, and Vector, and defeat Shadow, Perfect Chaos, Silver, and Egg Dragoon.

Yet, there are no Friend VS Challenges in Chemical Plant, Seaside Hill, or Crisis City, and no Friend Assist Challenges in Green Hill, Speed Highway, and Rooftop Run, which are from games that started different gameplay styles for Sonic.

BTW, I noticed there's no sound test in the game for the regular music.

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Actually I've just been reminded of something else which is quite a big thing when you look into it.

The Statue Room

This is the secret area in 'Sonic's Room,' these are the secret statues that you unlock if you enter the correct codes at the keypad/lock screen.

Now... had these codes not been 'hacked' is there any way at all in the game to actually find just one code? Even the official guide doesn't have them printed it (I don't own it but nobody has said otherwise so unless anyone can correct me on that...)

I know that theres supposed to be something with Marks and Spencers where you can get 'one' promotional code... yet both M&S and Segas Europes own Head Office know nothing about this. I guess it's supposed to be for some kind of future promotion... but nothing has come of it so far. But is it not odd that theres this mysterious room where you can unlock stuff... yet theres no mention how to do this in the game? Let alone actually access the room itself?

That's because it's supposed to be an awesome and hard to find secret like you'd often get in retro games. There's nothing rushed about that, and the promotion with M&S simply hasn't been put into full-swing yet. That's like saying Pokémon Red/Green/Blue was rushed because you can't find Mew.

Edited by Blue Blood

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Now... had these codes not been 'hacked' is there any way at all in the game to actually find just one code? Even the official guide doesn't have them printed it (I don't own it but nobody has said otherwise so unless anyone can correct me on that...)

No, you're perfectly correct; All the guide has on it is a small paragraph. It's so small, I'll just type it all out;

"You'll be able to access Statue Room from the Collection Room. Herein you'll be able to enter passcodes obtained from a website to unlock action figures of all the characters."

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Yes i do believe Generations was rushed i've been saying this since day 3 of its early leak onto the internet. allot of little cut corners here and there including the CG cutscenes sega was proudly toting around in the trailers. SEGA wouldn't waste time and money making CG for just trailers we know that much, commecrials for sure but thats different from trailers.

Another thing is the cutscene music, i feel that they spent soo much time working on the awesome remixes that they made only a few (say 3+the time eater track) tracks and recycled them over and over hell one is even used for generations' intro:

Also, what the heck? no vocal for this game?! makes no sense to let a big game like this go by without a vocal.

Edited by goku262002

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Maybe for practicality? Had it been in Soleanna Castle Town, what could he have attacked you with? The fight heavily relies on the trash he uses against you. I dunno, I guess it could've been done in Soleanna, though..

It didn't have to be in Castle Town. It would have been a perfect opportunity to show a different zone from 06.

Sonic 06 has two really iconic zones, Crisis City and Kingdom Valley, they had a chance to show both and they didn't.

Edited by Spooky Mulder

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Actually commenting on the topic matter itself, I don't think it was rushed (for the most part. Some of the glitches you can run into are just dire and should have been picked up), I just think whoever was responsible for deciding the finalised content of the game made some really bizarre decisions.

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I dont know if this counts as "rushed" or me accidentally breaking the level.

In Sky Sanctuary, in that 2-D area where the Egg-robo goes around and hits switches to keep you from being able to use a certain route, if you boost right into it in the area before it, when you do get there, everything except for the boost pads is gone.

You can still physically walk on everything, but you can't see anything.

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I dont know if this counts as "rushed" or me accidentally breaking the level.

In Sky Sanctuary, in that 2-D area where the Egg-robo goes around and hits switches to keep you from being able to use a certain route, if you boost right into it in the area before it, when you do get there, everything except for the boost pads is gone.

You can still physically walk on everything, but you can't see anything.

I didn't have this problem, but I do wonder what exactly it was supposed to be hiding. It's not protecting power-ups and it doesn't lead anywhere different than if you took the platform above.

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Maybe i should clarify:

There is a platforming section, in 2-D where you have to move faster than the egg-robo in order to use an alternate path. For some strange reason, in the 3-D quickstep area BEFORE this part, apparently doing SOMETHING (I'm not sure what exactly, although it seems to be linked to boosting at certain areas) causes the 2-D stage to vanish visually; all of the assets and platforms are there physically, but they can't be seen.

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It isn't rushed in so much as having a lot of stuff cut out (probably because it either wasn't finished, or because SEGA wanted it out)

For instance, the story suffers from Colours syndrome where large chunks of it seem to be completely gone. For instance Classic Tails' unquestioned appearance. Seriously, after the Death Egg boss, Classic Tails' just appears and neither Sonic questions this. It suggests that a scene where classic Sonic and Tails were properly introduced, was cut out from the plot.

Not to mention the CGI cutscenes were completely removed. Talk about playing it safe.....

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But the problem is that it's useless, to the point where each stage means that you can't trigger Super Sonic unless you reach a specific area in each stage, first point is when you get 50 rings (obviously), but to actually use every move in modern super sonics set, you can't trigger it at that moment, the second point is where you have enough rings to be able to use the boost ability without it being used up too quickly, and then take into consideration if theres any rings in that area which can prolong the ability.

It doesn't feel like this move was tested anywhere near as much as it should be, otherwise I don't think they would have made the rings drain as quickly as they do when you use it.

I've found that you really need to have 70-100 rings when you use the transformation to keep the boost going for a long time (as you're also picking up rings) so that you feel it's working and worthwhile, but even in GHZ, unless you're playing the level very slowly and going off course to pick up every ring, the soonest you can do is is just before/just after the cave scene.

But that doesn't explain why they didn't even put the CG sequences which they must have worked hard on even in the game as an unlockable?

I never said he didn't... in fact I said that you can tell what he's saying without the need for a voice, the question was the mention by Iizuka that Classic Tails would be a voice for him, yet theres no sign of that, so if it was cut out, why was it cut? And how much of it got cut out? Because finding the answer to this might shine light onto the original script and story length.

Thats all very well... but it still doesn't explain why theres absolutely nothing for getting S-ranks in all the stages.

But what does hard mode have to do with the fact that the last boss has a lot of bugs in it and isn't designed very well?

Meh, I blame ps3trophies.org for that one, lots of people were saying they couldn't do it.

Gosh, this is embarrasing. Seems I already answered most (but not all) of your responses on the first page. To the QuoteMobile!

These arguments are weak.

You're saying at the same time that Super Sonic has been changed too much and saying it hasn't been changed enough to differentiate it from normal Sonic. Yes, having Modern Super be more of a portable shortcut than the usual level-spanning power-up is an unpopular design choice, but there's no reason to call it a hasty one.

I believe the CG sequences were removed to take advantage of the 3D TV feature. If I'm wrong, it still doesn't prove the game was rushed, since it would actually require less effort to just leave the CG in.

Classic Sonic being silent is explicitly a design choice. Using it as evidence of rushing is ridiculous.

There was no reward for S-ranking everything in Unleashed or Colors either. It's not new, and it's not a rush factor.

The final boss should have had more playtesting. I completely agree with you on that. But it still doesn't prove the game was rushed. I still think it's a fun boss once you learn how to play it.

Now for Classic Tails being the voice of Classic Sonic, I think you're taking it too literally. Classic Tails IS the voice of the Classic perspective; I don't think he was ever supposed to be Sonic's mute speaking-aid.

Anyway, my original point was that none of your arguments indicate the game was rushed. You can prove the script has flaws, you can prove the that Super Sonic and the final boss were insufficiently playtested (and I'll completely agree with you on that), but none of that proves the game was rushed. Having certain sections that are less playtested than others is normal in any commercial video game, and is certainly not proof of the product being put up for sale prematurely.

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I get the feeling Sonic Team is going to end up learning yet another lesson the hard way:

What a small group of fans prefer is not neccessarily what the whole fanbase thinks.

-or-

You try to please everyone for the short term, you please no one in the long run.

-or-

Cutting out sections of a story to make it "light-hearted" does not make it light-hearted; it just makes it incomplete and lacking in substance.

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I get the feeling Sonic Team is going to end up learning yet another lesson the hard way:

What a small group of fans prefer is not neccessarily what the whole fanbase thinks.

-or-

You try to please everyone for the short term, you please no one in the long run.

-or-

Cutting out sections of a story to make it "light-hearted" does not make it light-hearted; it just makes it incomplete and lacking in substance.

This fanbase has never been of a single mind about anything. Nor will it ever be.

-and-

The majority of players and reviewers are wearing big happy grins. Who exactly are you talking about?

-and-

No, it's the self-referential comedy that makes it light-hearted. You have no proof that any part of the story was cut out or removed.

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