Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[NegaMix]

I think we're forgetting a particular detail about the next region:

Spoiler

Since Alola doesn't have a typical Pokemon League, I'm kinda expecting Ash to win there. After all, he seems to do just fine at anything that ISN'T a Pokemon League. (Orange Islands, Battle Frontier) 

 

[Tails spin]

Just now, Captain Metallix said:

I think we're forgetting a particular detail about the next region:

  Hide contents

Since Alola doesn't have a typical Pokemon League, I'm kinda expecting Ash to win there. After all, he seems to do just fine at anything that ISN'T a Pokemon League. (Orange Islands, Battle Frontier) 

 

Spoiler

Of course he will only for no one to care in the next episode. Seriously 

Orange League win , next episode  no one in the next island know him. And when he finally gets home his mom uses his trophy as an weight for her exercise.

Battle Frontier champion, his pikachu is taken down by his rival's Pokemon after said pikachu beat a legendary Pokemon. And to put icing on the cake Gary both time verbally told Ash to get off his winning cloud cuz he still has more to learn

 

[-Robin-]

The League title is just that: a title. An award given to the winner of a single-elimination spectator sport where anything can happen at the drop of a hat.

 

There are various other ways for Ash to become a "Pokemon Master", and I want the Alola series to explore that concept in all the ways it can. There's no official League proper for this region, so this is the time to tackle this aspect of the series - an aspect that has been wholly unique to the anime and not explored at all in the games, mind you - and fully flesh out this goal of Ash's beyond the typical badge collectathon + tournament, with the occasional bonus challenge.

 

Have Ash come out on top of this Team Flare arc, becoming the hero, and have him realize that there's more to gaining strength than simple proofs of strength via League badges (Which has been somewhat hinted at during the Greninja arc, fancy that), and use this as reasoning to go to Alola and carry this momentum.

[TCB]

I totally get what you're saying, but now I'm laughing at the people who would decry exactly what you said under pretenses of "THATS NOT A REAL LEAGUE DID HE COLLECT BAGDGES AND ENTERED A POKEMON LEAGUE TOURNAMENT LIKE PREVIOUS SEASONS WAA THIS WIN WOULDNT COUNT WAAA" 

[Dejimon11]

2 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

They should've rebooted him after his Orange Island win and given it to a new protagonist that was relevant to the newer games.

more like they should of made him win the Indigo League or if they didn't want to make him win the Silver Conference then Gen 3 would of been the "reboot" series then change protagonist with Gen 5 which was the other "reboot".

[Kuzu]

Like I said, I'm more mad at myself than the result for getting so emotionally invested in an outcome that I honestly should have expected.

[MightyRay]

So is "lol Ash loses" cemented for good as the opposite to the "lol Cena wins" meme?

[TCB]

20 minutes ago, Mightyray said:

So "lol Ash loses" is cemented for good as the opposite to the "lol Cena wins" meme?

I want it to be now after you said that.

[Spin Attaxx]

And this is why SiIvaGunner is best channel.

[Soniman]

I'm so glad we have this trainwreck of a League to commemorate 100 pages of this topic lmao. 

 

Sighhhh if you can't tell I'm still depressed 

[Dejimon11]

Well at least the memes make up for it 

Spoiler

I'm lying they don't. 

 

[Big Panda]

I just realised this is the second time Ash has been fucked over by a Charizard at the league.

[Dejimon11]

3rd actually. Remember Harrison in Johto?

[-Robin-]

By that, he means that this is the second time a Charizard that antagonized Ash cost him the League.

 

In no way did Charizard screw over Ash in Johto.

[Kuzu]

I know its kinda weird for me to be the positive one, but can we just move on and look at the rest of the Team Flare arc at least.

[Soniman]

10 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I know its kinda weird for me to be the positive one, but can we just move on and look at the rest of the Team Flare arc at least.

Speaking of I have another rant 

One of my major problems with the Kalos League (besides the obvious) is how Ash, on a emotional level is given no attention whatsoever, even up till the climax theres no care in how he’s reacting to anything at all for me. I mentioned it before but yes it does bother me that Ash pretty much had no significant reaction to losing 

Ive heard folks bring up the Greninja Arc as an argument, saying how because Ash had developed and learned to not let losses effect him/not obsessed with power/winning he shouldnt have any negative reactions whatsoever to him losing. On the one hand, yeah I understand that fine and that is consistent characterization, but on the other hand emotions dont work like a light switch, you can’t just turn them on or off whenever it’s convient, and maturity doesnt mean you arent still prone to negative thoughts, emotions feelings, etc. Because that’s just simply being a human being, and ill get back to that in a sec.

Right from the beginning it was clear that the Kalos League put all the emotional focus on Alan because he’s basically the main character of XY now and so building up his character for the TF arc stuff made more sense to the writers, it’s his baggage with Sycamore, his strained relationship with Manon,his dynamic with Lysandre that’s put on the forefront, and in the case of Manon is what ultimately led him to victory. 

Ash though? He’s pretty generic and you dont feel like you’re really watching the League from his perspective most of the time, it’s weird to explain but it’s like your an outsider looking at Ash rather then seeing it through his eyes (this is weird to explain but watch the Sinnoh League and how everything led up to his confrontation with Paul and i think it would make more sense). The most we get is his relationship with Sawyer, because that actually has some emotional roots because it tied back to how he acted during the Greninja arc, and the consequences from there get resovled when they have their battle, Ash was determined to show Sawyer “the real him” that he deserved and I thought that was pretty cool, but like I said, that’s pretty much it.

Even in the filler League episode that was about character depth and development, guess who the lion’s share of that went to? Alan and most TSME related characters (Lysandre, Manon, Sycamore, Malva). And what did Ash get?We got an explanation (but not really) for Ash-Greninja, and him making his usual “lets do this team!” speech, before having a talk with Lysandre (which at that point is basically more TF hype). The fact that he shows no amazement or even really mentions he’s going to the finals IS a big problem that I have honestly, because it makes light of Ash’s accomplishments and makes it unintentionally seem like he doesnt care that much and that brings me to the finals..

I don’t even feel like I have to to mention just how “nothing” Ash and Alan’s relationship is honestly, it certainly didnt have the emotional gravity to really feel like a bonafide final challenge for Ash besides the fact that Alan just being really strong and physical challenge for him to overcome. Alan is nothing more then a strong opponent to Ash, they havent interacted off the battlefield. Again though, emotionally Ash means a lot more to Alan then the other way around, from his narrations he sees Ash as some weird outlet to vent his frustrations by finding fun in battling him because everything else about his life sucks right now, and for Alan that makes sense but again, it’s not a interesting two-way dynamic.

And then finally there’s the loss, the loss that didnt really effect Ash in anyway. Like I said earlier just because he’s had his growth doesnt it mean it wouldve been completley ooc for him to be looking the least bit melancholic, not front of Alan of course but maybe in the locker room by himself, maybe wistfully starring at Greninja’s pokeball with Pikachu comforting him before getting back to his usual spirits. This is not a huge thing im asking for, I just want some validation that these constant League losses actually matter anymore, that Ash truly wants to do better and achieve his dreams because right now I dont get that feelings whatsoever, and that’s so weird to me considering how well he done, he was the runner up but I feel like the narrative doesnt want us to evencare. I guess you could make the argument that there’s simply no time for emotional focus because, once again, Team Flare’s arc takes precedent (seeing the problem here)

Im not saying other characters arent allowed to take the forefront of the show over Ash from time to time but I still want the writers to care about having Ash’s role/goal not being totally disregarded. 

All I can hope for now is for XY to do the BW thing and try and salvage Ash’s emotional investment in his dreams after straight up acting like they didnt matter and shove it all into its last episode(s).

Im glad Ash can walk away feeling satsfied by the battle Alan gave him and not harbor any negative feelings towards the guy, im not just not happy he gives no apparent fucks at how he failed again, how ‘broke’ the promise he gave to his mom, how he failed his Best Wishes self by making a solemn vow to achieve greatness and victory, none of that matters because Ash’s character right now doesnt matter, and to me that’s a huge injustice to him.

That said the Flare Arc looks pretty great so..yay for XY not ending on a terrible note at least lol

[Dejimon11]

This scene is more frustrating in hindsight 

 

4 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I know its kinda weird for me to be the positive one, but can we just move on and look at the rest of the Team Flare arc at least.

I honest think it looks interesting. With all this build up with the Mega evo special and the with this current season I hope the pay off is worth it this is the first time they've put effort into a villain team and I hope it doesn't look like the rest. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

It's times like this I'm glad fanfiction like this https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7262793/1/Ashes-of-the-Past is picking up the slack for the anime's failure to have any meaningful progress. It's not perfect, but at least somewhere Ash is successful.

 

Btw, just so it doesn't seem like I'm only posting it to criticize the anime, The fanfic I linked is actually pretty good.

[AdventChild]

This basically sums up my reaction:

 

[8ther]

So uh.. even with outcome of the league, anyone here still hyped for the Team Flare arc and inevitable SuMo season?

I still am ._.

[Big Panda]

Oh yes, you really can't deny that the Team Flare arc looks amazing.

[Kuzu]

As long as it has an good ending, I'll be willing to overlook Ash's loss.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

Initially, my opinion was "Fuck the Team Flare arc and Fuck Sun & Moon. Nothing else matters since the League had a shitty end."

Then this new preview came out.

Now I'm willing to watch it out of curiosity. If it's good, fine. Doesn't make up for the League at all. If it's bad? Then that just makes everything even worse since they screwed over the league for this arc specifically.

[QuantumEdge]

Hang on, is Greninja captured?  I don't see him.  If he's the only one on the team not captured, then I can only imagine the guy being supremely ticked at losing the league and being unable to stop his trainer from being kidnapped.  Should be a boat load of fun if that's the case.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

9 hours ago, QuantumEdge said:

Hang on, is Greninja captured?  I don't see him.  If he's the only one on the team not captured, then I can only imagine the guy being supremely ticked at losing the league and being unable to stop his trainer from being kidnapped.  Should be a boat load of fun if that's the case.

He's captured too. Look at the bottom of the screen when everyone is rising up. He's there, but he's on his side. You can just barely seen parts of him like the markings on his thighs and his tongue scarf.