Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[Big Panda]

So the Generations shorts are meant to be in the same canon as Origins right?

Except if they are, the first episode already contridicts something.

According to the short, Red apparently obtains Pikachu at the beginning of his adventure before he's even got his first badge. But in Origins, Pikachu was shown to be amoung the many he went back anf caught post-league.

[Dejimon11]

No it's a different continuity all together just the same art direction. 

[Semi-colon e]

Damn it, these felt super short, even though I knew that they were 3-5 minutes.

 

The first one was kind of a "trailer" as it were, and I was more excited about the pretty Ecruteak City and Weather Institute and then fucking Relic Castle (Unova hyyype) than any of the Kanto stuff, including in the second short with Looker. I hope there aren't a huge abundance of Kanto focused ones, especially as it's the same style as Origins was.

The Gameboy bit at the start was overly long though.

[Big Panda]

I like Looker's design, personally. I prefer it in fact.

[azoo]

23 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Like you can tell me all the ways current Pokemon still looks bad but when I see the animation go from this



to this

I think I'm allowed to raise an eyebrow and be at least a little skeptical on where the direction is going 

Thing is, you completely lose me when you try to say that the animation below is not good.

Maybe it's because you're comparing a gif with extremely choppy movement instead of comparing it to the trailer I posted a page or two ago? The movement is incredibly high detail and fluid, of the same par (if not slightly higher) than the battle scenes in XY except in all of the footage instead of just the battles.

I don't know. With all the posting of choppy gifs and focusing on smear frames and "what's wrong with Ash's face" etc, it feels like current Pokeani fans are going out of their way to skew it as shit without even giving it a proper chance. After all, from that same trailer we get a glimpse of a Pikachu battle that looks about as intense as anything from XY's highest points, so why are we acting like that too is exclusive to the current series? We haven't even got footage of this show beyond a minute long clip.

[Soniman]

I'm just judging by what we've seen, you're right in that the very brief glimpses of battle we do see aren't to shabby so my mistake there. However I still think I need to see more to be completely sold on it, I'm not dismissing it, I'll still watch of course, if I'm watching this show I'm not gonna have especially high standards to begin with lol. I'm more then willing to give it a chance cone air time, I'm simply not completely won over yet 

[azoo]

We cool. I'm not pointing my argument at you in particular, it's just me venting at how I literally can't walk three steps on the internet without seeing a tower of fans go into rapid-fire shit mode about the tiniest things related to this lmao.

[Big Panda]

I only just noticed that Red's choice of starter also contridicts Origins. Yep, definately alt canon.

Also, the in-game text just calls Red "Trainer" for some reason.

[Nepenthe]

6 hours ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

I thought you said Pokemon was repetitive garbage?

...Actually if you're changing your mind on that (or at least willing to try this new one because of the animation), that's great! The more the merrier.

It is repetitive garbage. But the fact that they're overhauling the animation style and bringing back some of the exaggerated character animation that's been missed since the first few seasons (RIP in fucking pieces 90s anime animation conventions) makes me think it won't be as garbage-y.

Also, there's no major differences between those two gifs posted? They're both solid pieces of animation in that they at least convey good timing and maintain volumes well. However, the fact that they're comparable to me and yet one is a battle and the other is instead less physically confrontational situations of character animation (which makes the comparison less favorable to XY, honestly, if it can only hold its own in moments of high action whereas Sun and Moon has Popplio jumping out of the water and still has it looking just as nice) only has my hopes up for Sun and Moon. Like, it's not even a fair comparison due to context and yet Sun and Moon still doesn't come out of it looking bad.

[Soniman]

There are a decent number of scenes on XY that convey well animated character emotion but I don't think that would accomplish anything as you've never watched XY so I mean?? Why the harsh judgements on its animation quality compared to SM?

 I honestly doubt the the animation will be any more "on" like that as any previous saga, there were shots like Ash with the Bearware that honestly don't look diffrent from the previous saga if it had the same scene. And scenes where characters are completey still like the Team Skull shots, and regular normal unexaggeeated  scenes like everything in the classroom which again, don't look any more visually engaging then what you'd get in the main anime so all it has to rely on is the artstyle. 

And keep in mind that a saga runs for over a hundred episodes every Gen so be prepared for the occasional dips in animation quality 

[Nepenthe]

I've seen the episode where Ash battles the Ice type gym leader and deals with a Mega-Abomasnow by way of accidentally staying up too late with my TV on CN, so let's clear the notion from the table that I'm I've not seen any of XY. On top of it, that one episode is far more than what I and everyone else has seen of Sun and Moon, and yet there's a contingent of people shitting on Sun and Moon anyway. If I have to watch the whole damn series to have an opinion on the artistic merits of two gifs posted right in front of me, then how about we wait for Sun and Moon to air in its entirety first?

Of course, that would be unnecessary. We can compare animation right now regardless of being exposed to the overall context of each season's entire run, and I'm just saying I saw no real discernible differences in the quality of the animation from a perspective of the principles being applied in a consistent and appealing manner. However, the fact that you dug up a gif of a battle where the whole point is appealing action and compared it to far more mundane situations in Sun and Moon, and they both looked equally good, actually bodes really damn well for Sun and Moon as a whole if they can keep that up for the entire run time.

In general though, I feel like the art style has sterilized for Pokemon as time has gone on, which isn't a condemnation of Pokemon itself so much as it is the relenting of how anime as a genre/medium has moved to since the 90s. Shows are far more sterilized, far more computerized, limited in their inbetweens, and less willing to exaggerate or break the model of body and facial features, and it doesn't really alight my senses as an animator. I mean, these shots are from the first season of this entire debacle, and they've got a shitload of character and appeal in it than what I've seen from Ash and his traveling buddies in years:

Back to Sun and Moon, now we're sorta starting to get back to this kind of thing and people are downing it. I mean, this is great to me:

The pose is funny, it has an exaggerated facial expression, there's creative follow-through being applied with his arm and leg positions. It's fucking awesome from an animation perspective on its own, and all the story called for was Ash turning around in a panicked manner. No battling, no need for strange monsters throwing magical attacks and doo-dads everywhere with the camera moving everywhere it possibly can. It's a simple situation with a basic still camera set-up and it still exudes character, which is successful animation worthy of praise. Really, when was the last time Ash moved like this on the regular, or had the same wide berth of expressions in the screenshots above, which were from Season 1, the season you've deemed was the beginning of a 20-year refinement?

EDIT: Besides, you'll still have your cool battle animations too if the trailer is accurate:

[Celestia]

I enjoyed those Generations shorts for what they are, but ugh, they're just so...rushed. The premise behind both of these are great, but ~4 minutes isn't nearly enough time. Also I'm still hoping we get to see some protagonists that aren't Red, and him going to every one of the (main series) regions in that first short actually gives me some hope that he won't just be filling in for the others. Maybe. Please...?

Speaking of Red tho, jeez, take better care of your PIkachu. He almost died in most of those scenes, lol.

[Tails spin]

I be honest. Ep 1 looked to just be an extended trailer for the series.

And maybe this red is manga red. Who did start out with. Bulbasuar and has a pikachu.

Ep2's ending made be related to origins but then again it could just be that it's going be game logic with Giovanni leaving the gym after give you and your rival a badge. I have mixed feeling about the series but I will keep an eye out for it

[Soniman]

Quote

 

The pose is funny, it has an exaggerated facial expression, there's creative follow-through being applied with his arm and leg positions. It's fucking awesome from an animation perspective on its own, and all the story called for was Ash turning around in a panicked manner. No battling, no need for strange monsters throwing magical attacks and doo-dads everywhere with the camera moving everywhere it possibly can. It's a simple situation with a basic still camera set-up and it still exudes character, which is successful animation worthy of praise. Really, when was the last time Ash moved like this on the regular, or had the same wide berth of expressions in the screenshots above, which were from Season 1, the season you've deemed was the beginning of a 20-year refinement?

Plenty of times? I can assure you OS was not the only time Ash has acted in a overly cartoony way and had wacky reactions/faces, because Pokemon at it's heart is still mostly a comedic kids show despite it's dances with action, dramatic stakes and serious moments (roughly 70-80% of the episodes are still silly filler after all).

Its clear we simply value diffrent things when it comes to the feel of the anime, but I welcome the change if its not as questionable as it is in the trailer, I still dont like Ash's design much but I do appreciate the attempt to liven him up more.

[Dantemustdie00]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to change things up with the animation.

As long as they don't use repetitive Stock animated backgrounds ever again like they've done pre-XY, I don't care.

[Nepenthe]

57 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Plenty of times? I can assure you OS was not the only time Ash has acted in a overly cartoony way and had wacky reactions/faces, because Pokemon at it's heart is still mostly a comedic kids show despite it's dances with action, dramatic stakes and serious moments (roughly 70-80% of the episodes are still silly filler after all).

Its clear we simply value diffrent things when it comes to the feel of the anime, but I welcome the change if its not as questionable as it is in the trailer, I still dont like Ash's design much but I do appreciate the attempt to liven him up more.

The best I can find in terms of XY being as expressive and exaggerated is this one:

Which doesn't really hold a candle to this:

And I mean, here's a direct comparison between the character doing roughly the same generic "determined concentration" look in Season 1 and XY:

The top one's asymmetry in the brow and mouth alone make for a more interesting version of this same expression. It's small, but in animation these small details matter.

Regardless, I'm not talking solely about the emotion. I'm talking about the character animation itself and how that conveys the emotion. There's no doubt that Pokemon has always been a primarily comedic series, but what I'm arguing has changed is that the range of facial expressions and poses on the characters use to communicate those comedic moments have been reduced, and that's in part because anime in general has become less expressive. On the contrary, Sun and Moon is moving back a little towards the original series' animation direction in part by not being afraid to be more limber and expressive with the characters and timing.

Now, if you don't like Ash's design then fine. I wasn't really on board with it at first myself, although it's grown on me in tandem with the animation we've seen. But I feel like it's an excessively easy argument to make that Pokemon over time has lost some of the fun in its artwork, even if it's been balanced out with more consistent volume preservation and better animated battles.

[Mania Pipe]

4 hours ago, Celestia said:

I enjoyed those Generations shorts for what they are, but ugh, they're just so...rushed. The premise behind both of these are great, but ~4 minutes isn't nearly enough time. Also I'm still hoping we get to see some protagonists that aren't Red, and him going to every one of the (main series) regions in that first short actually gives me some hope that he won't just be filling in for the others. Maybe. Please...?

Speaking of Red tho, jeez, take better care of your PIkachu. He almost died in most of those scenes, lol.

No kidding, I seriously wished these were the actual length of the TV episode, but I guess this what they're giving us I guess. I too want to at least see the other game's protagonists in this as well.

[Celestia]

One thing I do want to see though is a Red VS N battle. Maybe Red's in Unova for the Pokemon World Tournament and happens to bump into N, or something like that.

It'd also be really nice to see Hilbert or Hilda finally reunite with N. Makes me sad imagining the BW1 protagonist still out there searching for him, not knowing he's just fine back home. D:

Edited September 17, 2016 by Celestia

[Dejimon11]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

One thing I do want to see though is a Red VS N battle. Maybe Red's in Unova for the Pokemon World Tournament and happens to bump into N, or something like that.

It'd also be really nice to see Hilbert or Hilda finally reunite with N. Makes me sad imagining the BW1 still out there searching for him, not knowing he's just fine back home. D:

I know right? What makes it even worse is that Hilbert/Hilda don't keep in touch with Cheren, Bianca and Professor Juniper.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

On 9/15/2016 at 0:07 PM, Ice Vec said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well. He shot himself with a weapon of massive destruction so either way he died

 

Albeit,  in Pokemon X,

Spoiler

It's a laser that apparently grants eternal life

as opposed to downright death. 

[Big Panda]

New Japanese episode titles:

Episode 941: One Last Battle with Ash! Serena's Choice!!
Episode 942: Farewell, Ash-Greninja! Xerosic Strikes Back!!

[QuantumEdge]

26 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

New Japanese episode titles:

Episode 941: One Last Battle with Ash! Serena's Choice!!
Episode 942: Farewell, Ash-Greninja! Xerosic Strikes Back!!

I strongly hope that last one is just one of the usual trolling titles.  Getting rid of the Ash-Greninja form, as well as likely leaving him at Oak's, or preferably the Ninja Village, would be verging past overkill.  The guy was given such a lousy league loss after all his hype, it'd be nice if he were dealt some form of proper justice to his character.

[Dejimon11]

Welp R.I.P. coolest thing to happen in the show. Such an odd thing to get rid off. 

[QuantumEdge]

6 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Welp R.I.P. coolest thing to happen in the show. Such an odd thing to get rid off. 

If it appears in S&M though, then that getting rid of the form would seem a really strange decision.  Mind you, this show is not without its plethora of odd decisions, to say the least.

[-Robin-]

So in the end, Boutiqueshippers won?

 

Go figure.