Sonic Editoral for East of Nowhere (Currently on hiatus)

[Soniman]

By Media Gaming/Press do you mean how they treated the Sonic series recently or over the years? Either way, I would like to throw my hat in the ring

[KHCast]

That's...a little tricky. To be frank, this isn't going to fully paint a picture to the public that we're not a broken base, and we can't really try to cover it up. Even more, if you ask me, I think we should point out that we fans are know probably more than anyone how split the fandom is.

At the same time, we can't fully speak for the fandom. At the least we can do is speak as a group representing SSMB, which is a part of the fandom. We can show that for every bad fan out there, there are plenty of good ones to balance them out.

Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it, but you see what I mean.

Yeah i'm not trying to speak for the ENTIRE fanbase i'm just saying maybe it will help a little show that not EVERY sonic fan acts this one specific way and can explain ourselves.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

By Media Gaming/Press do you mean how they treated the Sonic series recently or over the years? Either way, I would like to throw my hat in the ring

In general, really. I guess that's another way of saying both, but it kinda covers our attitudes towards how the Gaming Press tends to go about their coverage of the series. It won't be too restrictive.

If you decide to take this on, be careful: while this may be one of the more critical points to discuss, we can't use this as an excuse to bash them, and if that is found in your contribution I'm probably going to ask you to edit it else it not be put in. That goes for just about everyone. Calling them out for appearing to ride the bandwagon or being a little too attached to the past than normal is okay, but saying they don't know anything about the fandom, that they're being stupid classic fans, or anything that comes off as inflamatory than necessary isn't going to go in. Let's show a bit of professionalism with it, and give credit where it's due because they also have some legit criticism despite our disagreements.

Of course, for most of you, I doubt I'll see anything less. But just to be safe.

Yeah i'm not trying to speak for the ENTIRE fanbase i'm just saying maybe it will help a little show that not EVERY sonic fan acts this one specific way and can explain ourselves.

Okay, good. Just trying to be sure.

Edited December 13, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Nattala]

Be sure to mention the Summer of Sonic, its like a symbol for all the positive aspects of the fanbase rolled into one.

[Dead3ye]

Hello, I am actually here to clear a bit of air. I want to thank Chaos for his support on a topic that came to me while I was responding to people here on these forums.

While I sit as more of a casual fan these days, as do most that do what I do. I have found the arguments levied in these conversations very interesting, they bring to light topics that aren't discussed out in a more public forum. As Chaos stated, I'd like to see these points become a cohesive and professional article as told by the people closest to the franchise. Given that I have never seen this subject matter tackled in this way, I'd think it would be more than possible to get these points into the light, and even reach Sega and those affiliated.

I have a few ideas on how to market the work once it has begun, and considering the multiple points it appears you guys might have (and for the sake of length) I believe the best way to tackle this would be in a series. A once a week article until completion, it would give the topics more focus, and give more time to bring attention to them.

I presented this to Chaos as nothing more than an idea and an opportunity. You guys are connected to this franchise in a way that most in the media are not, that is why -I- personally would not want to take this on. I would mess it up, because I'm not you. I play a ton of games, watch a ton of movies, and write for an average of six hours everyday. I'm not asking anyone to jump through any hoops, I'm giving control to you, and offering a site I pay for and run as a platform.

There is an audience out there, and I think all of them deserve to hear what you guys have to say about a franchise you dedicate so much of yourself to. That's all. Considering the amount of work that will likely go into this, it wouldn't be all too difficult to get people to read and respond to what you have to say, and it isn't difficult to get it to the eyes of Sega and Sonic Team.

If you have any questions for me, ask away. I will be here to do as much as I can. I feel positive about this idea, and I'd like to see it work out.

[The Man On The Inside]

Defending the Sonic franchise and putting it in the public domain...I can dig it. We'd have to come across as legit, and not like, well, fanboys. I admire your respect for us, sir.

We'd have to talk about how the idea that "sonic games suck by definition" became a meme in and of itself for nearly five years. The idea has spread like a virus, and isn't going to go lightly. When that announcement trailer for Ep2 shows up on GT, you know there will be a sonic cycle picture in one of the comments, posted by people who just don't know or, just as likely, don't care.

One of the things I would really like to see questioned is what the perception of us is like to the people on the outside. Are we all 13 year old whiny brats? Are we all carbon copies of SONIC1SONICHEDGEHOG? Have we got some mental condition where we like bad games? On the Invisible Walls podcast, Shane Satterfield described us as "insane". Where does this perception come from? What did he read or see that makes him believe this? And more importantly, how do we go about changing this perception?

Sonic 4 is partly to blame. I'd wager that "outsiders" simply look at it and go "There's a game that they said they wanted but flat-out rejected. Idiots". Of course, there's far,far,far more to it than that, but that's all these people need to judge us.

The truth is, we're not all like SONIC1SONICHEDHEHOG. Nor are we "blind, 13 year old whiners". We're mostly in our 20's, having been brought up on the Mega Drive/Genesis (both in my case ).

People must also truly realise and appreciate the awesome critical and commercial power of Sonic Team circa 1994. The Sonic games catapulted the medium of gaming itself into a new age. It's part of the reason why midnight launches for games exist, and is a prime example of how to take on the monopoly and win. The games themselves, masterpieces, through and through. The concept of momentum, perfeclty executed in fantastic and uniquely designed levels. A 5-hour long platformer, with a save feature, in 1994 - Sega must be credit with acheivements such as these.

Playing Generations while my housemate watched and discussed everything Sonic (he was brought up on PC gaming his entire life, and didn't care for sonic at all) put a lot of things into perspective. He said "well it looks like they redeemed themselves here, it looks quite good. He played some classic Sky Sanctuary and... had some fun! He asked me, "Where did it all go wrong?" I couldn't answer him immediately, but eventually I came up with this response:

SA1 introduced the alternate gameplay styles

SA2 forced them

Heroes is when the glitches became intrusive

Shadow is when the stories took themselves too seriously

and 2006 combined all of the above into a insane shit-sandwich.

As for extra characters: See S3&K. 3 Playable characters, and is a good Sonic game. Does not compute, right? It's because Tails and Knux all fit within the Sonic "mould". It's no different from Ryu, Ken and Akuma in Street Fighter IV. They fit within a "mould", but are functionally different. This exact right balance of "the same, but different" was fully realised in S3&K and the game was better for it.

Unleashed is solid proof that it can still be Sonic in that there furrier form and play like ass regardless.

The "bad years" are well and truly over, but as us Sega fans grew up, with the rise and fall of the Dreamcast, the Sonic franchise etc. have made a lot of us truly embittered.The new remake (NOT PORT) of sonic cd, combined with classic sonic in generations is making a lot of that cynicism go away (it's working on me, i'll say that much).

tl;dr:

People on the oustide have a mostly incorrect perception of everything Sonic, from the fans to the games. This needs to change of course, and I think it will happen eventually.

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

I'd like to contribute something to this project.

[Sega DogTagz]

I think it would be a good idea to address the lore behind some of the characters at some point. I feel that so many people scrutinize the side characters of the cast at face value, rather than understanding the characters for what they really are. Sonic Team puts a fair deal of characterization (for better or worse) into their characters across several games that most people probably never get a chance to see.

If I can be of any help let me know.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If I can be of any help let me know.

You can contribute by giving your thoughts on the points listed in the OP. Right now, we're seeing who's in for the haul.

I kinda want to bring some others into this as well. We have at least 10 members putting their thoughts into this, and although those are some of the more well-known members here, I'd like to get in some more before we actually get to work.

I'll see if I can get Shadic and Batson in on this, and BlackLightning if he has the time. There are plenty others I want to consider as well.

[T-Min]

Hm...I'd like to contribute to this. I like to think I'm pretty good at writing opinionated walls of text. ;D

Edited December 13, 2011 by Chris-T-Mas

[Jeffhog]

http://gamebabble.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/sonic-and-the-worst-fandom-ever/ I think this will be something you guys might like to read and take notes from. Take note that it predates Sonic 4's release.

[Sega DogTagz]

Alight then… I think I want to pick up on something Holiday Rush said earlier.

In 2005, the same year that Shadow the Hedgehog was released, we had Sonic Rush. Fans will debate on whether Sonic Rush is their favorite or if it's changes to the Genesis-styled pacing was a bad idea, however this does not change the fact that Sonic Rush was the most well-received Sonic game yet. In fact, most of the handheld games on the Gameboy Advance were the same in this regard. From Sonic Advance to Sonic Advance 3, these games are heralded as some of the best. If we were to judge as to why this was the case based off of the "Sonic Cycle's" paradigm that fights against the presence of Sonic's friends, then that criteria simply wouldn't hold up. The fact is, in these games, Tails, Knuckles, and even Amy were all playable. Not stopping there, they even introduced new friends like Cream the Rabbit and Blaze the Cat in these handheld titles. And to add to that, they were all playable. But if they were there, shouldn't the game have been hated or given poor scores? Wouldn't Sonic's friends ruin those games?

Well said.

There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the characters themselves. Each one can be non-offensive and even charming in their own way. More importantly it’s the implementation of these characters that makes all the difference. There is a time and a place for Sonic’s friends and when used appropriately they shine as bright as any other supporting cast. The handheld games have almost always demonstrated this. Conservative integration of alternate characters made those games all the better for it. The Advance titles offered a multitude of ways to approach every stage. The Rush series offered a deep aerial mobility system between Sonic and Blaze which made two similarly designed characters completely different at the same time. No matter how you look at it, these are differences that are appreciated by gamers and casuals alike. They improve the games and provide a wider spectrum of character selection that may fit into a particular individuals preferences. Sonic’s running and jumping are no less appealing for it. His ability to blast through a stage at top speed is not hindered in the slightest by a design that allows for Tails to fly over it. Nor is it impaired by Knuckles brute strength to go right through it. In a game about moving from point A to point B, the ride in-between is what we came to experience. Nothing bad can come from giving the player more options about how to enjoy the ride. Blaze’s boost jumps and Espio’s wall-crawling all add different dimensions to how you can tackle the same obstacles. They don’t change the game or make it worse, they give control to the player in how he wants to get the job done.

The best example of implementation that comes to mind is Big the Cat. In Sonic Adventure, he was rather forcibly introduced with a game-style that generated quite a bit of ire. Gamers sat back and wondered why this was included in a Sonic game. It wouldn’t be until Sonic & Sega AllStars Racing that Big would find a comfortable niche as a set piece for comic relief. There, his size and scope were properly utilized making him a quality addition. Dev’s decided that it would be fun to stick the behemoth cat onto a mini-bike and send him down the road. Spinoff or not, Big’s character was put into a position to shine and it did so. By assessing what the character was, and could do, Big moved from a detractor of quality, into an addition to it.

When looking over the history of Sonic games, characters outside of Sonic himself do more to enrich these titles rather than hinder them. Picking up the D-pad for the first time as Tails opened doors Sonic couldn’t. Later, playing as Knuckles gave you a better appreciation for the sheer vastness of the levels in his own game. When used correctly, they introduce a deeper experience and add another layer of complexity to an already surprisingly deep speedruning or fun-and-gunning experience. Old school gems like Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K all took this concept to heart. They did not shun extra characters and the games themselves were notably spared the backlash extra characters receive today. By taking a page out of that playbook (which has actually been used to great effect by a number of modern titles) and keeping extra characters to roles that support the gameflow, their inclusion will slowly but surly become more and more accepted as they once were. Until they return to their status as staples of one of the historically great franchises.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[Indigo Rush]

Actually, something else that may need addressing is gameplay length. I think I've seen a few reviews that complain that Sonic games are too short, only lasting about 4 or 5 hours as opposed to other platformers like Mario or Kirby, who last several hours more.

Sonic on the Genesis and handhelds have never been known for long gameplay length in the form of more levels, but rather through re-playability via more characters, secret goodies, and improving score, time and rank. The idea that Sonic games need to be several hours long is what leads to weird decisions like the whole genre-roulette thing.

Just a surface-scratcher there, but yeah, do you think that's something worth bringing up?

[Danj86]

I would like to try to help if I can. But I'm not really a well known member of the community. My only claim to fame is winning a contest on a game most seem to hate. But I would be happy, even if it was a very small part.

One think I can't understand is, why the mass hate for Knuckles Chaotix?

Nobody has properly explained it to me. Was it because of the 32X system, or because of the large number of characters. Which, again, doesn't seem right as each and every character brings something new to the table. Knuckles has his climbing and gliding, Charmy can fly, Espio can walk up walls and even the roof, Vector has a jet pack and can also climb, Mighty has speed and a hall jump and Heavy and Bomb offer a handicap if your not very good at the crane game. With Heavy slowing the player down and having minimal jumping ability and Bomb will explode when hit. Everything else looks and feels like any other Sonic game. Plus it adds an extra layer of strategy with the elastic function.

I just don't see what's so wrong with it.

[Indigo Rush]

I would like to try to help if I can. But I'm not really a well known member of the community. My only claim to fame is winning a contest on a game most seem to hate. But I would be happy, even if it was a very small part.

One think I can't understand is, why the mass hate for Knuckles Chaotix?

Nobody has properly explained it to me. Was it because of the 32X system, or because of the large number of characters. Which, again, doesn't seem right as each and every character brings something new to the table. Knuckles has his climbing and gliding, Charmy can fly, Espio can walk up walls and even the roof, Vector has a jet pack and can also climb, Mighty has speed and a hall jump and Heavy and Bomb offer a handicap if your not very good at the crane game. With Heavy slowing the player down and having minimal jumping ability and Bomb will explode when hit. Everything else looks and feels like any other Sonic game. Plus it adds an extra layer of strategy with the elastic function.

I just don't see what's so wrong with it.

The level design is pretty crappy, and the physics aren't very good. If Sonic CD is the black sheep of the classics, then Knuckles Chaotix is a purple goat.

But that's for another topic.

[Danj86]

The level design is pretty crappy, and the physics aren't very good. If Sonic CD is the black sheep of the classics, then Knuckles Chaotix is a purple goat.

But that's for another topic.

Really? I hadn't noticed.

But that's a much better answer than the ones I've been given before.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hang on folks, don't write you're paragraphs just yet.

Let's get things organized first.

So far, the people contributing are:

1. Me
   
2. Marco
   
3. Indigo Rush
   
4. Semjax
   
5. VizardJeffhog
   
6. Tsz11
   
7. Candied Sugar Plum1984
   
8. DC111
   
9. Dissident
   
10. The Boosting Reinhog
    
11. Sonimas032
    
12. Wearied Snowhog
    
13. SegaDog Tagz
    
14. T-man
    
15. ForgeCircuit
    
16. Jus-Dan
    
17. Flyboy Fox
    
18. Blazing Yule Log
    
19. Enigma2Me
    
20. Derpy the Snowmare
    
21. Da Khristmas Komo
    
22. Inferno
    
23. Frosty the Pirate King
    
24. Shadic93
    
25. Verte
    
26. Scar
    
27. Nepenthe
    
28. Christmas Warp
    
29. SuperStingray
    

25 people. Hmm...I thought we'd get a few more. But there's still time. Anyone I missed?

EDIT: Added more folks.

EDIT2: I swear, you guys and your holiday nicknames.

Edited December 22, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Flyboy Fox]

I'd like to contribute.

[BlazingTales]

I'd love to add my two rings to the table, if that would be alright.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I would try to add something, but I honestly need more clarification on what is to be written for the things you listed. that and truthfully, I'm not sure if my writing will be up to par.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Enigma2Me

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I would try to add something, but I honestly need more clarification on what is to be written for the things you listed. that and truthfully, I'm not sure if my writing will be up to par.

Okay, so right now this is just the gathering phase. We're just getting the folks to raise their hand to make their thoughts known.

In regards to the editorial itself, it's going to tackle topics that we've focused on in order to give more enlightenment to those outside of the fandom what tends to go down here and our many thoughts of the series, among other things.

These are the points we've narrowed down so far:

• Sonic Characters
  
• Gameplay
  
• Story
  
• The fandom
  
• What went wrong?
  
• Media/Gaming Press
  

And it's going to be put into a series that'll be made once a week or so. You can pick the points you want to speak about and put your thoughts down.

Say for example there's something about the Characters that you want addressed, be it with how they're presented or how people tend to act towards them, you'd be writing your views on the matter. One thing we're going to keep tabs on is how inflamatory you writing is, and if it's antagonistic to the point of bashing or not up to par you'll be asked to edit it or else it won't go in. We'll help you out if you feel it's not up there so don't worry too much about your writing skills.

Does that help?

Edited December 13, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Old dead account]

I guess I'll put my 2 rings down as well. Just tell me when to start writing, PMing, whatever.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Okay, so right now this is just the gathering phase. We're just getting the folks to raise their hand to make their thoughts known.

In regards to the editorial itself, it's going to tackle topics that we've focused on in order to give more enlightenment to those outside of the fandom what tends to go down here and our many thoughts of the series, among other things.

These are the points we've narrowed down so far:

• Sonic Characters
  
• Gameplay
  
• Story
  
• The fandom
  
• What went wrong?
  
• Media/Gaming Press
  

And it's going to be put into a series that'll be made once a week or so. You can pick the points you want to speak about and put your thoughts down.

Say for example there's something about the Characters that you want addressed, be it with how they're presented or how people tend to act towards them, you'd be writing your views on the matter. One thing we're going to keep tabs on is how inflamatory you writing is, and if it's antagonistic to the point of bashing or not up to par you'll be asked to edit it or else it won't go in. We'll help you out if you feel it's not up there so don't worry too much about your writing skills.

Does that help?

Yes, I guess that clears things up. I'll give this a try, even if my results aren't that great.

[Komodin]

Yeah, I would like to contribute to this interesting project as well, specifically in the Characters and Gameplay categories. Is there a required length that our contributions have to meet?

[Ferno]

Count me in too. This seems like a great opportunity here. I'll consider my points carefully, and I'll try not to write too much while getting straight to the point, while trying to stay as objective as I can.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Jingle Ferno