Why is Chaotix non-canon?

[KHCast]

Out of curiosity, what evidence has their been to suggest Hidden Palace has been retconned? Super Emeralds and Hyper Sonic are both given no-brainers, but I never really saw anything too problematic with Hidden Palace?

Wait, i thought there was something about super emeralds and s4 episode 2. I'm taking it with a grain of salt but still.

[Diogenes]

I figure he's talking about the location of the shrine. Which doesn't require a retcon; there's the old shrine, then they built a new shrine underground to be better protected, then the Death Egg smashed through the ceiling making it not all that well protected anymore, so Knuckles switched to the old shrine for reasons.

vvv S3&K Hidden Palace. The fight with Knuckles, the Doomsday Zone mural, the shrine with the Master Emerald?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Diogenes

[Nepenthe]

I thought Hidden Palace technically doesn't even exist considering it was a lost level, or am I missing something?

[buba]

Wait, i thought there was something about super emeralds and s4 episode 2. I'm taking it with a grain of salt but still.

Never heard of such thing, where have you seen this?

[KHCast]

Never heard of such thing, where have you seen this?

[goku262002]

I thought Hidden Palace technically doesn't even exist considering it was a lost level, or am I missing something?

Edited December 18, 2011 by goku262002

[JezMM]

Does Chaotix really contradict too much? I don't see how this game is any harder to skirt around and make theories for than the others.

Moon is whole in subsequent games, everything after Sonic Adventure 2 is non-canon.

Edited December 18, 2011 by JezMM

[Kuzu]

Does Chaotix really contradict too much? I don't see how this game is any harder to skirt around and make theories for than the others.

Moon is whole in subsequent games, everything after Sonic Adventure 2 is non-canon.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Does Chaotix really contradict too much? I don't see how this game is any harder to skirt around and make theories for than the others.

[JezMM]

Except the moon isn't a character that was confirmed to have been reinvented for a completely new game.

[VO.SUPER]

I don't think that the game does, other than the question of 'so where did this odd island come from/go back to?

It's mainly the material around it like the manual, I'm sure I've read somewhere that Vector was supposed to be amazingly religious wasn't he? That we went to the Island to find God or something along those lines?

[Badnik Mechanic]

If they really wanted to make it clear they're new characters they would have, say I dunno, made new characters.

[Nepenthe]

Heroes was laden with nostalgia. Coupled with a team gimmick, it would be easier, cheaper, and more likely to give the hardcore fans a boner to just scrape up an old-school team from the dead. At least that's what I figure.

[Kuzu]

I prefer to take series' by what is in the game rather than what is out of the game. If they really wanted to make it clear they're new characters they would have, say I dunno, made new characters.

Even in game kinda confirms this, there's no reference to Knuckles` Chaotix at all, and I know the games have a shaky continuity but past events are usually referenced from time to time. Because its easier to bring back old characters, reinvent them, and make them seem like new.

[Diogenes]

Does Chaotix really contradict too much? I don't see how this game is any harder to skirt around and make theories for than the others.

Based purely on the games themselves, no, probably not. Including what Iizuka said? Yes.

Moon is whole in subsequent games, everything after Sonic Adventure 2 is non-canon.

Actually this rather neatly defines itself as a plothole; if you work backwards, and come to define, say, ShtH canon, then when you reach SA2 you find it's both necessary for a canon game (Shadow must exist, along with his backstory and in-game arc) and contradictory to it (the moon). The subject of the contradiction is necessary for the game it's in (it's kind of a pivotal point of the story), so it can't simply be written out, which leaves an unsolvable situation, a plothole.

[JezMM]

Based purely on the games themselves, no, probably not. Including what Iizuka said? Yes.

Ehh I just hate that it can be somewhat explained as being canon with artistic license (such as ignoring character ages that have never been static etc) until something meta suddenly topples it all over.I

I mean I know Iizuka is a more important figure in the Sonic series than him, but not too long ago didn't AAUK tell us "officially" that pretty much every game that isn't represented in Sonic Generations isn't canon (including ShTH)? I'd just rather try and make sense of the game universe presented to us than just go "well he said so no need to worry about it". I've invested in this universe, I WANT as much of it to make sense as possible.

Obviously some games just cannot be taken seriously, but I would not liken Chaotix to such clear non-canon candidates as say Mario & Sonic.

It's more on par with say, Sonic Battle. You know, it has a lot of awkwardness but still could fit in just about.

Edited December 19, 2011 by JezMM

[Mega]

...also, thinking that Classic Sonic is any specific age younger than Modern Sonic is pretty silly. Bart Simpson looked very different twenty years ago, but he was still ten years old then and now. Bruce Wayne has also been in his thirties for over half a century.

Amy says he looks younger. He acts like a kid. Pretty sure they retconned him to be a few years younger than Modern Sonic. Just sayin'.

Retcons happen. They could probably find a way to fit Chaotix into canon if they wanted to.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Mega

[goku262002]

I mean I know Iizuka is a more important figure in the Sonic series than him, but not too long ago didn't AAUK tell us "officially" that pretty much every game that isn't represented in Sonic Generations isn't canon (including ShTH)? I'd just rather try and make sense of the game universe presented to us than just go "well he said so no need to worry about it". I've invested in this universe, I WANT as much of it to make sense as possible.

AAUK is non-canon since the end of colors, so whatever he says now is void .

[Neon]

I mean I know Iizuka is a more important figure in the Sonic series than him, but not too long ago didn't AAUK tell us "officially" that pretty much every game that isn't represented in Sonic Generations isn't canon (including ShTH)?

Nah, they were just the ones which were indisputably canon. Along with Shadow The Hedgehog.

Why do some people question Shadow The Hedgehog's place in canon? It's literally one of the few games which have to be canon, mainly to make any sense of Shadow's future involvement in the series.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Neon

[Milo]

Wait, i thought there was something about super emeralds and s4 episode 2. I'm taking it with a grain of salt but still.

In the sonic 4 episode 2 topic there was something that mentioned the time stones super emeralds and chaos emeralds. Although again i'm not trusting it.

Oh, that thing? That was a rumor that proven false by The Taxman himself.

To clarify, read the entire discussion about that rumor

AAUK is non-canon since the end of colors, so whatever he says now is void .

Isn't that the guy who claimed that Chronicles was canon? -.-

Ugh, I still remember the huge debate on Chronicles's canoncity back at the Sega Forums.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Zinos Kringle

[-Mark-]

I know it's been said before, but if you assume that there are two Espios, Vectors and Charmys (Charmies?) then it makes perfect sense. They just all happened to be twins with parents who couldn't be bothered to think up two separate names.

Except for Mighty. He was an only child, hence his lack of reappearance.

Oh, and the moon? Didn't you see Sonic X? Eggman totally fixed it. What do you mean X isn't canon to the games either? Well fine. How do we know that all post-SA2 games don't just happen to occur at times when you can see the whole side of the moon? It's not like Eggman blew away that much of it!

[Marcello]

I don't get why people are using the argument "It's never mentioned, so it's not canon". The Riders games are considered canon, but they're never mentioned.

[AAUK]

...didn't AAUK tell us "officially" that pretty much every game that isn't represented in Sonic Generations isn't canon (including ShTH)?

No. He didn't. But people have started saying he did for some reason...

Isn't that the guy who claimed that Chronicles was canon? -.-

No he was the guy who said 100% Chronicles WAS NOT canon.

[Milo]

No he was the guy who said 100% Chronicles WAS NOT canon.

The heck?... I heard that it was him or some other Sega representative (I heard that it was a SoE representative) who said that Chronicles was canon.

*notices name* Wait...

Edited December 19, 2011 by Zinos Kringle

[Flyboy Fox]

I think AAUK knows what he said =P And for the record, I remember well myself that he said Chronicles is not canon. So whoever is spreading a rumour that he said otherwise is a faulty source.