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That idea is fundamentally difficult. Most of the time, even the most diverse and creative of alien worlds are based off of geological and physical features we have observed on earth and in space.

For example Mario Galaxy. One would say that its very visually creative, and has lots of flair. However, even the most batshit insane environments (say the Freeze/Flame Galaxy) are based off of phenomina observed on earth. Laval, is something seen on Earth mostly, and is a geological feature common to most planets which are rocky and have a dynamic core. Ice is found on ice caps on earth, but there is also plenty of it in comets and one of Jupiters moons is made purely of ice.

Stages which are based on past civilisations are often based on past civilisations on earth, because we have no idea what an alien settlement or alien ruins could possibly look like. Try thinking of what an alien city would look like......its pretty tricky to do so without thinking of a futuristic New York or Dubai.

I say we flaunt the gorgeous world we live in for the creation of level tropes and aesthetics. Just throw two or more together and mix 'em up like a salad, if you want to make it a little more surreal or abstract.

This is pretty much stating the obvious and is why that post was meant to be observed as a whole, since when I spoke for creating original settings I was talking about in contrast to what Unleashed does which stereotypes a good deal of the countries/cultures it bases itself on and just adding the typical Sonic gimmicks to it. Not that I don't understand why since considering what it did it pretty much wanted to in order to establish a sense of real life familiarity. It works as a one-off but I hope this isn't something that becomes a fad. I even said in my post that a good deal of Sonic always drew inspiration from real life.

When it comes to creative aesthetic design though I think Sonic CD and Heroes had those one in the bag. The levels would have crazy neon lights, topsy turvy designs, colorful and playful visuals, I loved that about those games.

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Personally I just think it's far more creative and interesting to actually come up with own worlds and assets.

Basing levels off of real worlds in Unleashed worked that once but it's a difference between completely basing off of a country/setting and just taking inspiration from real life locations, and I really wouldn't want shedding possible locations that are as creative as Green Hill Zone, Stardust Speedway and Sky Sanctuary Zone in favor for stereotyped countries with parody names.

So yeah I don't mind the "realistic inspiration". There's always been some of it in Sonic games, but it's been handled with care and it still remembers that it's a colorful platformer with fantastic locations.

I believe creativity in terms of locales comes in how well you can immerse the player within that location, not necessarily how fantastic you can make it. In entertainment altogether, there are realistic settings that have enamored me more than fantastic ones. If I can become engrossed in a fictional world, then it's won me over regardless of its art.

However, I'm not pushing that they need to continue doing an Unleashed forever. I've just gotten the feeling that a lot of the fandom's dislike of Earth is a subset of the hate for drab realism that's plagued other genres, which is a failing of the accountable art teams and not Earth. We don't live on a desert. We live on a planet that's absolutely gorgeous and mind-blowing, and deriding Earth as is common in the fanbase, as well as advocating the complete forgoing of the inspiration it offers for nothing but Sweet Mountains forever is as nauseating a thought as Sega ever pulling a Gears of War.

But really, there isn't an artstyle in the series I've actively thought was outright inappropriate, especially when I take into account each game's goals. I really have no inherent problem with trippy environments or realistic ones. I just find myself at the defense of the latter more often because they're simply the bigger target.

(Speaking of defending something, there's another platform I get irked by: "Sonic is an anthropomorphic hedgehog and doesn't fit realistic environments." Well, Bugs Bunny is a large anthropomorphic, multi-talented rabbit that was born in Brooklyn. Most places he visits are also real locations: Tasmania, Germany, the Ozarks, the Artic, South America, France, Rome, etc.. Should we crusade against the series' realism on the basis of inconsistency and instead insist the only ones shown are the Marvin the Martian and annoying Dodo shorts? <<;;.)

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After which he promises the coveted treat only after they both run around the city and get back to him within a five minute time limit, which begs the question of why he makes dogs that only a handful of people in the world can gain from him. That's hardly cost-effective.

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After which he promises the coveted treat only after they both run around the city and get back to him within a five minute time limit, which begs the question of why he makes dogs that only a handful of people in the world can gain from him. That's hardly cost-effective.

I would actually expect a short scene where the Sonic's have a race to see who gets the chili dog, only to end in a tie.

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Then ensues a hilarious slap fight until they both lose the coveted dog down the sewer. They'll be relatively miffed at each other for the rest of the game, still cooperating but not adversed to giving the other a good ol' pop upside the head or a mockingly-feminine gesture behind the other's back.

And it's sad as this will scenario will probably not be in the game.

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MERGED from a created topic of similar subject.

-Wolfy

So, this topic is about the humans of the Sonic series. How do you like them, how could we change them, anything about the Homo Sapiens.

Here's my two rings.

Myself, I think SA1 and Unleashed both did it very well, but neither hit that perfect balance I feel they have never found. SA1 anime style (while not very well executed), to me, felt more Sonic-stylized, but were too generic. Unleashed's humans fit better with Sonic overall (because of the cartooniness), but I felt they were too Pixar-styled for me, which I feel is too far in one direction. Sonic and friends do have a lot of American influence in their designs, but a lot of Japanese/anime as well, and I feel that the humans should follow suit. So, to me,a mix of Unleashed and SA1 anime style (done better with better graphics obviously), would be the perfect mix, keeping it cartoony, but a little more Sonic-stylized.

Thoughts? Discuss!

EDIT: Also, Merlina's a good template as well.

DOUBLE EDIT: I also stand behind Dio's point that Sonic is a cartoon and needs cartoony humans, but Pixar style (while still good), is still not ideal.

Edited by Christmas Warp

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Not too big a fan of noneggman humans in Sonic games in general, but I don't mind them really. I had no big problem with their design in Unleashed, I thought Merlina was a perfect example of what they should look like. Just no more realistic pregnant men or moonwalking cops.

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I love humans in the Sonic series! Fitting, as my favorite character- Dr. Eggman- is a human himself.

Aside from the Eggster though, there've been tons of human characters whose colorful personalities have enhanced my enjoyment of the series. Professor Gerald, Eggman Nega, Wendy Witchcart, Dr. Madden, Sonic Man, Professor Pickle, Wentos, and plenty of others! If we wanna pull in things from other media, who can forget the OVA's own President and Sera? Sonic X's Chuck and Mr. Tanaka? AoStH's Warpnik and Dr. Quark? And while I'm not really a huge Archie fan, Snively is certainly a fine addition to that universe.

Humans add flavor to this series, and their perpetual presence is simply a boon to the games. I love seeing their little subplots, and have ever since Sonic Adventure introduced such gems as the burger shop guy and his crush, the cheating playboy, the railway workers' strike, and the nerdy squeaky-voiced guy who shouted "Oh no- It's ROBOTNIK!" All of them were fantastic.

Have there been bad human characters? Well, sure. Elise was awful, but I contend she'd still be awful even if she were an animal. Her humanity doesn't make her a bad character; Her lazy writing makes her a bad character. The same can be said for Chris Thorndyke and other egregious characters- Their species isn't the culprit, it's their utter lack of interesting characterization, which would be problematic no matter what species they were.

So yes- I love humans, and I want to see more of them.

EDIT: As for style- Unleashed all the way. I love the cute cartoonish style, and feel it meshes well with the rest of the series. Barring that, I'd be fine with anime style too. But I don't really prefer super-realistic people in this series, so nothing like 2K6 ever again please.

Edited by Fancypants

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I love humans in the Sonic series! Fitting, as my favorite character- Dr. Eggman- is a human himself.

more.png

(I'm sorry, I just wanted a chance to post that awesome picture. I'm laughing WAY harder then I should be)

Aside from the Eggster though, there've been tons of human characters whose colorful personalities have enhanced my enjoyment of the series. Professor Gerald, Eggman Nega, Wendy Witchcart, Dr. Madden, Sonic Man, Professor Pickle, Wentos, and plenty of others! If we wanna pull in things from other media, who can forget the OVA's own President and Sera? Sonic X's Chuck and Mr. Tanaka? AoStH's Warpnik and Dr. Quark? And while I'm not really a huge Archie fan, Snively is certainly a fine addition to that universe.

Humans add flavor to this series, and their perpetual presence is simply a boon to the games. I love seeing their little subplots, and have ever since Sonic Adventure introduced such gems as the burger shop guy and his crush, the cheating playboy, the railway workers' strike, and the nerdy squeaky-voiced guy who shouted "Oh no- It's ROBOTNIK!" All of them were fantastic.

Have there been bad human characters? Well, sure. Elise was awful, but I contend she'd still be awful even if she were an animal. Her humanity doesn't make her a bad character; Her lazy writing makes her a bad character. The same can be said for Chris Thorndyke and other egregious characters- Their species isn't the culprit, it's their utter lack of interesting characterization, which would be problematic no matter what species they were.

So yes- I love humans, and I want to see more of them.

EDIT: As for style- Unleashed all the way. I love the cute cartoonish style, and feel it meshes well with the rest of the series. Barring that, I'd be fine with anime style too. But I don't really prefer super-realistic people in this series, so nothing like 2K6 ever again please.

And I have to say I agree with this 100%, except for the style bit (which I talked about in my OP).

Edited by Christmas Warp

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Aside from the Robotnik family (including and limited Eggman himself, Gerald, and Maria) and maybe Professor Pickle; I dislike humans in Sonic games. But as long as they aren't required to progess through the game or do 100% completion or something a la Unleashed, then I'm fine with them.

On a seperate note....why the heck are there no other anthros? It's just Sonic and already established foes/rivals/friends. Nobody else.

As for which style...eh. Unleashed was OK, don't particularly care for animesque (SasTR/SatBK), sorta dislike full anime seen from SA1-ShTH, and I say no to 06's realistic humans.

Edited by Zinos Kringle

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Re: Humans existing:

I am always surprised to find people clinging to the notion that having humans in the series is some recent (for certain values of recent...that being a whole other issue, itself...) betrayal of what Sonic "is". The one word proof against this should be obvious: Eggman. There has never not been a human in this series, and a blanket "no humans" policy would quite obviously cripple the series. Now at this point they usually rush to say that Eggman is an exception, but why? How? There's not one damn word in the games or the manuals that even implies that Eggman is the sole human in Sonic's world, so how do you justify claiming that he is, and how do you explain why he is? This is nothing more than subconscious fanfiction and pollution from other media colliding into delusion. The simple fact is that the Genesis Sonics never claimed that no humans (but Eggman) exist in Sonic's world, and as later games show, they exist, but we simply didn't see them. And that makes perfect sense; the games had no reason to show them. They were not part of the story in any way, shape, or form, and most of the environments Sonic passed through on-screen were not ones you would likely find people in anyway (whether they were out-of-the-way natural locations or the various factories, plants, and bases of operation under Eggman's control). It's as absurd as saying that, because we didn't see some population of anthro cat people in the Genesis games, Big is a betrayal of the series' setting (he is, or at least was, a betrayal of the series' gameplay, but again, whole other issue...). In fact, it's more absurd than that, because, again, we have always had a human!

Re: The design of humans:

Sonic is a cartoon. Say it with me: "Sonic is a cartoon". By that I don't mean that he is an animated TV show, but that he (and pretty much everyone else) is a stylized character designed for children. Largely in a western style, as well. So, naturally, the humans should follow suit. Realistic? No, Sonic is not realistic. Anime? No, Sonic is not anime. Pixar? Closer...not necessarily ideal. Also regarding Unleashed's humans, while I don't dislike the effort put into making them all unique characters, I don't think it's really necessary. I'm pretty fine with the majority of NPCs being generic, and limiting the "unique" ones to the ones you'd be interacting with anyway (story characters, shopkeepers, etc).

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I like having Humans in Sonic games, it adds some depth and diversity to the Sonic world, imo. I've always imagined that the diverse population of Sonic's world was a mix of something like Dragon Ball (the original series) and The Looney Tunes Show; there's a lot of Humans, but talking cartoon animal people are also part of the norm. As for designs, I think there needs to be a bit more balance between "Anime Humans" and "Pixar Humans" to make humans more diverse while blending the styles together. Also, basically everything Dio and Fancypants said.

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I like having Humans in Sonic games, it adds some depth and diversity to the Sonic world, imo. I've always imagined that the diverse population of Sonic's world was a mix of something like Dragon Ball (the original series) and The Looney Tunes Show; there's a lot of Humans, but talking cartoon animal people are also part of the norm. As for designs, I think there needs to be a bit more balance between "Anime Humans" and "Pixar Humans" to make humans more diverse while blending the styles together. Also, basically everything Dio and Fancypants said.

This. The transition in style from the Adventure games to Unleashed was really jarring, they need a balance. Also have them say something interesting when you go up to them, although Unleashed wasn't as bad as Adventure in that regard.

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I don't have any problems with the humans in the games,either.

Sonic X was where it got bad...mellow.png However, I think Eggman's

design is right for humans. He's realistic, but only to a certain

extent, giving him that unique, anthromorphic- like style,

almost as if he wasn't a human. Awesome..biggrin.png

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A merge between Adventure & Unleashed is not a bad idea but I also preferred them to have a bit of SonicX style to the mix, they don't have to look just like them, but take a few pointers from them. Unleashed's style was my least favourite, followed by Sonic06 (mostly due to the graphics, they were a bit bad).

Eggman himself, while I like alot his Sonic06 design (which many hate), I'd prefer him to have some of SonicX's Gerald design, I think it'd blend better between the cartoonish and realistic style, just like the other humans...

And I too like the notion of having humans in most of the games but I too would like to see Sonic interact with locations with only Anthros.

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And I too like the notion of having humans in most of the games but I too would like to see Sonic interact with locations with only Anthros.

But why would such locations have only animals? I doubt the animals are just so prejudiced that they disallow humans. Even Station Square- a predominantly human city- has the occasional animal resident like Amy Rose. It's not as though there's any official bar on animals from living there. We just don't see many there because we don't see many in the series as a whole.

I can see cities where the population is skewed the other way perhaps- For example, Casino Park could conceivably be predominantly animal-populated, since traversing its crazy pinball-themed roads requires some added strength and agility that the animal characters typically possess, but it stands to reason that some humans might live there anyway- Particularly the industrious business types.

Though what I really want isn't that at all. I'd prefer to see cities where a sufficient number of humans and anthropomorphic animals are all living together, in roughly evenly distributed populations, in harmony with one another. The Sega universe gives me no reason to think there'd be any unrest between the species, and since anthropomorphic animals seem functionally human from a societal and legal standpoint, it stands to reason that they'd all be part of the same society.

What I don't want is an Archie scenario, where there's a steady vibe of unfounded prejudice on both the humans' and animals' sides. The games give me no reason to suspect that, especially since Sonic is a beloved superhero and role model for the majority of the humans we've seen in the series.

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A mix of humans and mobian/anthro co-existing with one another is what I would love to see, you don't need to seclude one race from another. I will also agree with the Archie comic thing too. You'd think that after all this time of aiding each other, they'd be more open up with each other and work side by side more in society, but hey, that's how they roll.

Ugh, as long as I don't see any photo-realistic humans again like they pulled with 06, they just didn't blend well at all with Sonic anthro's, unless you made the anthro's look more realistic themselves kinda like Star Fox anthros which you know that Sega ain't gonna change their style like that on the fly.

I would just hire Gurihiru again (the artist who did the cool Unleashed humans) to do the humans again incase they did actually so up again in the next game or whatever, or at least make the humans look anime-ish like with Sonic X and Shahra and Merlina.

I just HATE that realistic stuff to the heart and soul, but that's just me people, we all got our likes and disklikes.rolleyes.gif

Edited by Dantemustdie00

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