I, Badnik

[SuperStingray]

The Orbot/Cubot topic was dancing around an area of the franchise that's really up my alley, but I don't want to push that further off topic, so I'll create my own. Now as someone interested in the area of robot ethics and philosophy. I found Gamma's story in Sonic Adventure to include some very important subtext. Nothing's set in stone about how the games' version of roboticization works, but we do learn a lot about Eggman and his methods from Gamma's experience:

1. Eggman's robots are not hardwired to accept him as their master and have the ability to delete his authority at will. He provided them with (or left intanct) their own independant agency.
   
2. The robots seek or appear to seek Eggman's approval. This means either the robots have a naturally ingrained child-like desire for attention or Eggman programmed them to behave as such because he wanted a human-like interface.
   
3. Gamma's loyalty to Eggman ended after encountering (and recognizing) the blue flicky in captivity. It's revealed at, if not clear by, the end of the story that the blue flicky is the offspring of the bird inside Gamma (and Beta), which tells us that the being's brain is connected to the robot's processor, if not serving as the processor altogether.
   
4. If I might extrapolate from another game, Gamma is revived in Sonic Battle, but functioning off a Chaos Emerald shard rather than an animal. His behavior is subtly different though, by which I mean in Sonic Adventure he shook Eggman's influence after one mission to save his companions and daughters from robotic servitude where in Sonic Battle he was a power hungry sadist that tried to pummel Emerl and Cream for revenge. Whatever effect animals have as the core of a Badnik is made apparent right there.
   
5. Finally, as the Adventure games show, the creature inside the robot is shielded so even if the robot's destroyed, the animal won't be harmed. So if nothing else, Eggman's not so heartless as to overlook each animal's safety.
   

My interpretation? Eggman figured out animals are invaluably efficient as a processor and power source and how to use them as such. (though I guess that technically makes them closer to cyborgs than robots? Eh, semantics...) After all, if you need an army of specialized combat robots, which seems more cost-effective per unit: a processor with the power of a hundred Intel i5s and all the programming, cooling and maintenance it would require, or a small and malleable vessel with billions of pre-existing neural connections and little maintenance needed beyond basic nutrition and protection? Best part is that animals make great minions because as the phenomenon of pet ownership has shown, most creatures will take to anyone that gives them food, love and shelter regardless of moral alliance- you don't even need to waste energy brainwashing them. Only flaw we've seen in it is that parental instinct overrides survival instinct and if given the choice between Eggman and its offspring, Darwinism dictates it choose the latter. Besides that, it's genius, economical, poetic and not (entirely) unethical- just like Eggman.

Now the flower seed robots in Sonic CD, I can't account for. I'm going with Flower Power.

[LATER BUDDY]

Not gonna lie, that was badass.

I've always enjoyed looking extremely deep into the Sonic series for shits and giggles to see if I could, or watch others, explain events and characteristics that honestly, was probably made with hardly any back thought at all (at least at this magnitude). It just goes to show that the player is whom chooses how deep and complex they want their characters to be with enough back thought put into it.

Anyways, I'd love to see how you'd dissect the numerous Metal Sonic creations if you had similar interpretations of Eggman. I mean if you had anything other than "FUCK THAT HEDGEHOG, I'LL MAKE A BETTER ONE AND KILL IT" that it obviously shows with these creations at the face of it, XD.

[Blacklightning]

I'm not really one for Eggman based topics, but

The robots seek or appear to seek Eggman's approval. This means either the robots have a naturally ingrained child-like desire for attention or Eggman programmed them to behave as such because he wanted a human-like interface.

When you put it that way, it seems to tie more into Eggman's sense of self-worth than anything else. He does what he does because he himself wants attention - hell, to an extent you could even argue that his ultimate goal isn't necessarily to kill everyone (though I'd be lying if I said some of his plans don't involve casulties - on many occasions he's planned to level entire cities and continents just to have one to himself), but just to create an atmosphere in which the worship and affection of him is law, or at least fairly close to it. That said, a group of mechanised peons which actively compete for his approval? You damn well better bet there's some foreshadowing in that.

[SuperStingray]

Anyways, I'd love to see how you'd dissect the numerous Metal Sonic creations if you had similar interpretations of Eggman. I mean if you had anything other than "FUCK THAT HEDGEHOG, I'LL MAKE A BETTER ONE AND KILL IT" that it obviously shows with these creations at the face of it, XD.

To be honest, I think you kind of have it explained right there, if bluntly. One or two replicas of his nemesis would be enough to show that Eggman respects Sonic enough to recognize his potency, but he has to have made at least five now, and that seems a bit overboard. But maybe it's only because Sonic's the cause of 90% of his failures- he's a credible object of Eggman's fixation. What I see in Eggman that I don't in most other cartoon or comic villains is someone who tries to learn from his mistakes as soon as he spots them. He's not modest by any means, but if his plan doesn't work, he'll look for a flaw. Most villains wait until they've been foiled one too many times by the hero before they make evil clones. Metal Sonic was created immediately after Sonic and Eggman's first encounter. Silver Sonic was made by the third and Mecha by the fourth. And if you notice, each model's a bit different. Metal focuses on Sonic's speed, Silver on Sonic's power and Mecha on Sonic's cunning. Eggman's as much a scientist as he is a villain, if not moreso- if he's going to lose to someone he's going to find out why. He's a bit like GLaDOS that way; petty but empirical, egocentric but objective. He wanted an answer to why he he could beat Sonic, so he made Sonic himself. When that didn't work, he tried again but from a new angle.

There's also a semi-Freudian angle, in my opinion, that runs a bit deeper; basically that he grew up cherishing his grandfather's work creating an "ultimate lifeform" and before Shadow, he saw Sonic as the keeper of that title and wanted to match that work by using Sonic as a model. Being a roboticist though, he settled on robots rather than bona fide life.

[Celestia]

Metal Sonic was created immediately after Sonic and Eggman's first encounter. Silver Sonic was made by the third and Mecha by the fourth. And if you notice, each model's a bit different. Metal focuses on Sonic's speed, Silver on Sonic's power and Mecha on Sonic's cunning. Eggman's as much a scientist as he is a villain, if not moreso- if he's going to lose to someone he's going to find out why.

Now I want to see him combine the attributes from the three robotic Sonics and make some sort of "Perfect" Metal Sonic.

[Rawpowered]

Gamma is revived in Sonic Battle, but functioning off a Chaos Emerald shard rather than an animal.

From reading that part I just got a weird image in my head of Sonic going Super Sonic using Animals instead of Emeralds.

[Danj86]

There's also a semi-Freudian angle, in my opinion, that runs a bit deeper; basically that he grew up cherishing his grandfather's work creating an "ultimate lifeform" and before Shadow, he saw Sonic as the keeper of that title and wanted to match that work by using Sonic as a model. Being a roboticist though, he settled on robots rather than bona fide life.

That's a very good analogy, and it coincides with something Shadow himself says during the final battle on SA2.

I haven't heard it myself, but I was reading Sonic quotes and one from the above mentioned moment has Shadow actually call Sonic "The Ultimate Lifeform," being impressed by his "Super Sonic" skills and all...

[neezTHEhuman]

There's also a semi-Freudian angle, in my opinion, that runs a bit deeper; basically that he grew up cherishing his grandfather's work creating an "ultimate lifeform" and before Shadow, he saw Sonic as the keeper of that title and wanted to match that work by using Sonic as a model. Being a roboticist though, he settled on robots rather than bona fide life.

This got me thinking that maybe Eggman created Sonic because he wanted to emulate his grandfather's work but that begs the question: why didn't he just create another duplicate so that Sonic can truly meet his match instead of persisting with robotic versions that proved to be inferior.

Sonic's origins have always been a mystery in the games, all that we are explicitly told is from the game manual in Sonic 1: he was born on Christmas Island, loves adventure and hates injustice etc.

[JezMM]

I did always like that the animals are clearly shielded by the robots. It utterly goes with Eggman's policy of only using whatever force is necessary. He wants to win and he wants to be loved for it, the 'ole lug.

This got me thinking that maybe Eggman created Sonic because he wanted to emulate his grandfather's work but that begs the question: why didn't he just create another duplicate so that Sonic can truly meet his match instead of persisting with robotic versions that proved to be inferior.

Sonic's origins have always been a mystery in the games, all that we are explicitly told is from the game manual in Sonic 1: he was born on Christmas Island, loves adventure and hates injustice etc.

There's absoloutely no way that Sonic was "created" by Eggman or anyone. They would never do that. Save that for the fanfics. (The bad ones).

[neezTHEhuman]

I did always like that the animals are clearly shielded by the robots. It utterly goes with Eggman's policy of only using whatever force is necessary. He wants to win and he wants to be loved for it, the 'ole lug.

There's absoloutely no way that Sonic was "created" by Eggman or anyone. They would never do that. Save that for the fanfics. (The bad ones).

No, it makes sense because why else does Robotnik save Sonic from drowning in the lava of act 3 Underground Zone in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for the game gear? If Shadow is related to Black Doom ,lol, then anything is possible and that is not from fanfic.

[Scar]

No, it makes sense because why else does Robotnik save Sonic from drowning in the lava of act 3 Underground Zone in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for the game gear? If Shadow is related to Black Doom ,lol, then anything is possible and that is not from fanfic.

Why would Sonic be created by Eggman? Sonic being saved by Eggman in one instance during STH2GG, doesn't mean he created Sonic. It at the most implies that Eggman isn't a totally heartless evil maniac, has his own moral code, or wanted to defeat Sonic himself rather than letting lava kill him.

Sonic being created by Eggman is a silly idea. The fact that SEGA officially made it canon that Sonic aged from the classic time-period to the modern time period, implies that he's an ordinary organic life-form. If Sonic was "created" by Eggman, based on Gerald's work, then Sonic, like Shadow would not age.

EDIT:

Additionally, Shadow being "related" to Black Doom being canon doesn't stop it from being an abominable idea that needs to be wiped clean from the franchise's troubled history. We do not need a repeat of that malignant bullshit, but this time with Sonic.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Scar

[Pawn]

This got me thinking that maybe Eggman created Sonic because he wanted to emulate his grandfather's work but that begs the question: why didn't he just create another duplicate so that Sonic can truly meet his match instead of persisting with robotic versions that proved to be inferior.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Lungo