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What's with the X-treme praise?


Gamenerd

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What's up with way some people here bow down to Sonic X-Treme like it would've been the second coming of Jesus? Why do so many people, be it in threads, MSN conversations or Youtube Comment boxes, seem to rave about the game being better than all other 3D Sonic games despite it not getting released?

I can understand that the hype train for Sonic X-treme was large back in the day, and that it was probably the most devastating game cancellation ever. But really, was it ever going to be that good? Honestly?

From what we've seen, be it via Youtube or old magazines, X-Treme looked pretty mediocre in it's most complete form. The environments looked way too squarey to be enjoyable, the camera was awkwardly fixed and the Fish-Eye served as nothing but a means to disorientate the players depth perception. It didn't look fast and there were few level-specific gimmicks that were actually interesting, and the music we've gotten hold of so far just seems grating on the ears. Not only that but the graphics looked sub-par; it's fair enough to use 2D sprites in a 3D environment so you can put more effort into developing the environment, but the levels didn't look great either, so it ended up looking like flat sprites mapped over blandly-textured cube environments, which even for Saturn is pretty abysmal.

Finally, it doesn't look to have fixed any of the problems that more recent Sonic games suffer from - the levels are still areas suspended over holes (see: Death Egg in Sonic X-treme), the camera's stiffness still looked like it would be problematic and there didn't look to be much Pinball physics involved (you know, since you guys all fap to that sort of thing). Hell, design documents and GIFs suggest that the character system of Adventure was originally planned for X-Treme, with Sonic being a Fish-Eye explorer, Tails playing a first-person flying mode (wut), Knuckles being a top-down maze trawler and Tiara going for oldschool 2D Sonic gameplay. One story document even refers to Robotnik being overthrown (a trope that characterises 3D Sonic titles). If anything, many of the design problems we've seen in 3D Sonic were originally introduced by Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic X-Treme, and were only solidified by the Adventure titles.

What say you, SSMB-ers? Why do people bitch so hard about this games cancellation and clamour for some sort of Live/PSN/WiiWare rerelease when frankly it doesn't look like anything remotely special? I can't fathom it. Sure, out of curiousity I'd like to see some sort of release, but to actively request it, and to consider paying money for it, is something I would not do.

Opinions?

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People love what they can't have, pretty much. I never thought it looked that great from the beginning either and completely agree with you. I hate it when people complain about the new Sonic titles then go and say this looks gold, because it looks no better, if not, worse than most of the newer Sonic games. Sonic Unleashed is probably more fun than Sonic X-Treme was ever going to be.

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People are still butthurt over what could've been. There was quite a bit of potential that never saw the light of day.

Plus it's old school and we all know old school Sonic is superior.[/sarcasm]

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I've always thought the game was intriguing, not really something to go apeshit over, but still makes you want to try it out. Although the fish-eye lens perspective is a bit of an eye sore, you have to give them credit for something different. I will admit that the music in the game is really good, and if anything I would have loved to hear more tracks from the game.

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I usually view Sonic games with great optimism. But X-treme never really incited that. It just looked so......what's the word for it?....Amateur. It looked gimmicky with the ability to walk on different planes with wonky gravity, it didn't look particularly fun. It looked like a game trying it's hardest to be something that can't be accomplished with the resources. This is true when you take into account that the development team wanted the NiGHTs engine, got slapped down by Naka and then presumably had enormous trouble making stuff with the resources they had.

I just didn't like the look of it. Though I have to admit that the red bipedal robot on this page looks awesome, though not particularly Sonicky.

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It's interesting as being something different and something that never came to be, but as a game in itself? I honestly don't think it looks all that great. If it did come out, I don't think it would've been any sort of savior game, or even a particularly good one; just another offbeat Sonic game in that odd sort of dead zone between S3&K and SA (if SA ever ended up being made in this hypothetical alternate universe...and I think it'd be quite a shame if it didn't).

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I agree with Diogenes, that it was probably better that we got SA in the long run instead of X-treme and whatever ideas followed after its impact. If anything, this game would have been good for the Saturn, maybe leading to a generation of 32-bit Sonic games.

X-treme looks impressive for its time, but keep in mind its competition would have been Mario 64. The concept was good enough, and was rooted in platforming, so it would be an entirely different feeling from the modern Sonic games. I'm unsure if what we've seen was the final build of the levels, because they look sort of empty with lifeless backgrounds. The levels look identical with only cosmetic differences between them. It kind of reminds me of a 2D concept in 3D kind of game, like Nights, especially the fast areas on the loops, which look very automated. Nights was successful on the Saturn, but I don't know if it's for Sonic. Still, it's interesting to think about.

Edited by Badnikz
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I never liked the look of Sonic X-Treme, the camera was really what ruined the look of the game. It makes me dizzy looking at old gameplay videos, personally I'm glad it got canned and we got Sonic Adventure later on down the line.

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Being interested in a game that never came to be and genuinely believing it to have been fantastic are two different things.

Of course the fanbase is going to be all over this game, and I sort of am too, because seeing all the development come out over the years is really interesting to read. I still think the game wouldn't have been great, though. From what gameplay videos we've seen, the gameplay looked more like a generic platformer than really a Sonic game, and the fisheye lends really weren't doing it for me.

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Backing up what Solid SOAP said...

Think about this...if Sonic06 was cancelled after the first E3 trailer, it would be right up there with X-Treme in how much people want it and it could've been the perfect Sonic. The amount of hype it caused was unbelievable, the same way that X-Treme did (assuming here, I wasn't around during this time), for all we know X-Treme could've been Sonic's biggest failure ever.

X-Treme looks creative and fun, but I don't think it was better than the 3D Sonic we have today.

OFF TOPIC: Wasn't Adventure the replacement for X-Treme?...I wonder what would've happened design wise if X-Treme was released, would we still be playing as Classic Sonic today if Adventure never came around?

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Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn replaced it.

I think the idea for SA1 started out as an RPG, and I heard about it originally being developed for the Saturn, too (dunno if this is true, can't be arsed to find a source). But as far as SA1 having any connection with X-Treme, I highly doubt it, as I've never heard of such a thing.

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OFF TOPIC: Wasn't Adventure the replacement for X-Treme?...I wonder what would've happened design wise if X-Treme was released, would we still be playing as Classic Sonic today if Adventure never came around?

Adventure's gameplay is sort of based around the Sonic World gameplay from Sonic Jam. And that was, I think, the Japanese's attempt at a 3D Sonic after X-Treme canned, which looks vastly superior to the latter, IMO.

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OFF TOPIC: Wasn't Adventure the replacement for X-Treme?...I wonder what would've happened design wise if X-Treme was released, would we still be playing as Classic Sonic today if Adventure never came around?

Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn replaced it.

I think the idea for SA1 started out as an RPG, and I heard about it originally being developed for the Saturn, too (dunno if this is true, can't be arsed to find a source). But as far as SA1 having any connection with X-Treme, I highly doubt it, as I've never heard of such a thing.

I believe they used the Saturn to test the original game engine which would eventually be used in SA, as well as many elements for the game (like the hub world in Sonic Jam).

Edit: Whoops, looks like VirgoTheCougar beat me to the answer. Just ignore the above then.

Edited by MilesDX
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It was just quite an interesting looking game to be honest, people just love to think "what if" and speculate how differently things would have went if X-Treme was released. It's also worth keeping in mind that the original Adventure hasn't aged all too well and with people having soured on it - they develop the belief that X-treme would have been a much better 3D debut title. But no, like many in this topic I don't agree with that whatsoever - it just looks like a unique concept of a game, but not exactly a groundbreaking or even fun game.

Another factor is that the Saturn never really had that one key Sonic title, and people just wanted to see the console reach its full potential - and by all accounts that's what Sonic X-Treme was setting out to do. The graphics are probably some of the nicest on the console and the gameplay; whilst it would have fallen flat on it's face compared with the fun-factor of Mario 64, was very creative for its time.

Not to mention all the news that's constantly coming out about it's development along with demos and whatnot, so even though it's a game over ten years old - it's still "current" in some aspects, so people still talk about it.

I do quite like some of the music though, especially

which really has a great dangerous wintery feel to it. Mind you, there are some other tracks that sound like low-quality garage band recordings, so I really can't take a proper stance on the entire soundtrack. In that regard especially though; I highly doubt X-Treme could shine the shoes of Adventure - much less Mario 64.

OFF TOPIC: Wasn't Adventure the replacement for X-Treme?...I wonder what would've happened design wise if X-Treme was released, would we still be playing as Classic Sonic today if Adventure never came around?

If I recall correctly; during certain scenes in Adventure (the plane crash scene being one of note) the Sonic and Tails models would actually revert to something that resembled more Sonic R-esque models for a few seconds. I've heard rumblings that those were left over from the development on the Saturn, but obviously you can't be sure.

Edited by Tombi
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Adventure's gameplay is sort of based around the Sonic World gameplay from Sonic Jam. And that was, I think, the Japanese's attempt at a 3D Sonic after X-Treme canned, which looks vastly superior to the latter, IMO.

Wait... are you saying that Sonic World better, or that X-Treme is better?

In my opinion, Sonic World showed us what 3D Sonic should be like, in terms of visual and audio presentation, but it was too slow. If they made a whole Saturn game of about 15 Sonic World styled levels (e.g. fully explorable, no bounds 3D, with no bottomless pits) with lots of Sonic 3 styled enemies and obstacles, a higher top speed, alternative characters (more like the extra characters of SM64DS than Adventure) and a Mario 64 style mission structure, Sonic could have gone in an entirely different (and probably better) direction.

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I can't say whether or not X-Treme would have been good or bad, but I will say the series would be very different today. The Saturn could have been a bigger hit, STI may still exist and the transition to 3D Sonic could have been much smoother. I can't say these things for certain, but had X-Treme been a hit, things would have been very different.

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If I recall correctly; during certain scenes in Adventure (the plane crash scene being one of note) the Sonic and Tails models would actually revert to something that resembled more Sonic R-esque models for a few seconds. I've heard rumblings that those were left over from the development on the Saturn, but obviously you can't be sure.

ENVY: Don't I wish...

Tombi: They use the Sonic R models during the Sky Chase minigame. They're not separate models, they're part of the plane. From my understanding, they're placeholders that they never replaced. Sonic Adventure's development was so hectic it's impressive that they were able to release something at all.

From my experience, a Super Mario 64 mission structure has limited replay value. Sonic needs his replay value.

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The thing to remember about X-Treme was it had an extremely bumpy development. The game, apparently, had 2 parts: normal gameplay and boss arena-esque gameplay. The normal gameplay is what won some much praise, 'cause it was...well, we don't know! But we do know that it needed a lot of work, and when the time came for SEGA to check out the game's progress, the normal gameplay wasn't ready to be shown, and as such, it wasn't liked by the supervisor who checked it out. However, he liked the boss arena stuff, and said that the entire game needed to be built around that concept, and that's what we see all over the web: that version of Sonic X-treme's prototype levels.

...or so I've heard, I think from an article Game Daily wrote years ago?

Anyhow, I really don't mind. Sonic Adventure, back in the day, was a great intro to 3D for the Sonic franchise, and the day stages from Unleashed fixed a lot of its mistakes. I think Sonic himself is great in 3D, it's just all the gimmicks they try to pile on top of him that spoils the party. At this point, whining about how great things could have been "if Sonic X-treme" were finished is irrelevant and pointless. But it's nice to dream, and in all honesty, what WOULD the series be like today if it was released?

Edited by EXshad
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back on the day, most of people never thought it would be awesome because of the gameplay. the reason thy were so amazed was the fact is was Sonic on 3D. Is a feeling of inovation that just erase everything else about the game ...just like mario 64, but before you throw tomatoes at me, I'm NOT saying Mario 64 is not a bad game...just let's face it, most of us were more atonished about Mario being in 3D more than the gameplay itself.

But good graphics don't make a good game, we all know that....

now these days, people thinks as X-treme as a savior only for the NOSTALGIA FACTOR...since it was a 3D game of Sonic that used his old-school look unlike his newesr style that started on the 3D games.

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I never liked how it looked. The level design looked awful in every video I've seen for the game. You couldn't really tell where you were supposed to go. Plus the game was way too slow for a main Sonic game. I'm kinda glad it got canned too.

I think that one SATAM game that was canned looked more interesting. I wouldn't have wanted the main series to head down that path, but it looked like a fun little spin off at least.

Edited by speedfreak
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From what I've seen, the game was well cancelled. It wouldn't save the Saturn either, it should have been out in in that Christmas 1996 release but it was so incomplete that it wouldn't make much of a difference if it was released later than that.

It has some interesting ideas and shots from what I've seen, but it does have some horrid ones as well and that gameplay videos makes me angry. Good ideas (the level wrapping around itself and one or two puzzles), but there's nothing else: bad world (that wrapping up gets old after one level since it doesn't change), the presentation (graphics from hell, the Saturn could do way betterthan that), bad camera, no momentum, no difference between levels, no challenge, the levels look empty and lifeless and what the hell a new character and people want it (not to mention, she looks awfuly fanmade)? It's terrible and mediocre. Like I said, it was very well cancelled, it was getting nowhere. I think I prefer Sonic 3D and even better, Sonic's world of Sonic Jam, of all things.

Quite frankly people bitch about Naka going apeshit about the NiGHTS engine and that makes no sense whatsoever. He has the right to bitch, throw a fit and say no. One of SEGA's good points back in the day was the inner competition there was and that no one ever helped the others at all, every team worked independent from one another and the world could explode before anyone gave their engine to another team. I understand that philosphy of work very well. You should the best you can, not rely on other people's work. If you're not good enough, then you shouldn't be leading a team in the first place.

The game never got released, that's why people like it so much.

I never liked how it looked. The level design looked awful in every video I've seen for the game. You couldn't really tell where you were supposed to go. Plus the game was way too slow for a main Sonic game. I'm kinda glad it got canned too.

I think that one SATAM game that was canned looked more interesting. I wouldn't have wanted the main series to head down that path, but it looked like a fun little spin off at least.

Man, it's the same, they only threw SatAM characters to the bin and replaced them with Tiara and her father. Sonic Mars doesn't even have any media related to it besides this video and it's terrible as well.

Edited by redmenace
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