Should Mighty The Armadillo return?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

How about this:

SEGA should "fix" the characters that do get frequent representation, rather tha overcrowd the Sonic supporting cast by reviving the dead or long forgotten. The biggest priority for SEGA with regards to any character, is decide on a consistant personality with a consistant characterisation which doesn't immediately bring forth everyone's hatred upon the mere sight of them.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dantemustdie00]

Yeah, Ix, Shade and the Nocturnus thing was pretty dag interesting, also a good change of villians than the usual Eggman and his Badnik army, and for once without some god creature thing that you have to go super against which is getting kinda stale in my book.

I also love for the Battle Kukku Army to return too, I always found them pretty interesting.

[Aquaslash]

Eugh, the speed-flight-power...thing. I'm really not sure it does the series any favors to stick to that rigid format. For one thing, all playable characters should be reasonably fast, anyway. Plus it tends to encourage a lot of sameness in characters (Cream) and gameplay (Heroes). And then you get characters that don't fit cleanly into one category; you can make pretty equal cases for Amy being either speed or power, and why is Eggman, a guy who is otherwise no more than human and relies on his machines, suddenly punching cars out of his way?

Rule of Funny/Rule of Cool. Though Eggman can arguably go into any category with the right machine.

Why?

I'm not a fan of creating millions of faces and then discarding them after one use like condoms. It's better to get mileage out of existing things than to go lusting after new things. Plus, you'll have the same problem with the new guy, and after a while it just gets retarded.

Yes, but when he has so little to start with, we may as well be creating a character from scratch, so why bother calling it "Mighty"?

Because at least with Mighty, all we really have to design appearance wise is new gloves and new shoes. Plus we have a basic theme to work around. Meanwhile, with new character #201, we have to make EVERYTHING from the ground up. Might as well throw the fans a bone here instead of having to hpe on the character being an ensemble darkhorse.

Because in spite of his name, speed is all he's ever actually done. He was identical to Sonic in SegaSonic, and he was Sonic with a wall jump in Chaotix.

I can understand that. However, remember that this is Sonic the Hedgehog, where the characters are literally exactly what they say on the tin. A dude named, "mighty" is a strong guy first and foremost. I'm sure if there were strength obstacles in chaostix, Knuckles/Mighty/Vector would have taken advantage of them, and the same will apply if Mighty returns.

They exist to tell the stories that couldn't be told otherwise. You can't just sub in some other character and leave it at that; you'd have to write the story entirely from scratch.

I dunno. Maybe with Marine, and MAYBE with the Werehog. But I could tell the same story that was told from Blaze and Silver's parts of 06 and Rivals with pretty much any other character. Never mind that their portions in 06 made the least amount of sense. The 06 one is even more jarring because Silver's a new character and could have just been from Blaze's world instead of the future.

Your obsession with the S/F/P system is baffling. I see no reason why a game that doesn't even invoke the system should care about balancing against it in any way.

Consistency would be nice :/

Hm, nope. The role of mechanical duplicate of a hero is already taken. Just stick Metal Sonic in there, instead of creating Metal Sonic Clone #413.

Get the frag out. Metal Sonic damn well better be transforming himself INTO Metal Knuckles if you wanna run that route. But no, if there's one thing we are in desperate shortage of, it's more villains. Plus why haven't we had the combined threat of MS and MK yet? Even Archie Comics ran the double metal trouble threat with a Metal Scourge, and then again with the other robot Sonics that the games don't use.

Pick one. If a character like Blaze is redundant because she's too close to Shadow, than "Sonic, Only Now he is Red" sure as shit isn't any better. You don't get to complain that people like newer characters because you think they are unoriginal in the same post that you complain that people don't like Mighty because he is unoriginal.

Hey what's that flying over your head? It's a bird! It's a plane! No wait, it's the entire point of my post! It seems to have come with a small supply of putting words in my mouth too! I never once complained that people like these newer characters. Mind you I'm the guy who's making a hack co starring Silver the God Damn Hedgehog of all characters. However, as kickass as he is (tied for either 1st or second favorite Sonic character overall), even I can admit that there was no need for him to be created. Not when we have such a vast pool of underused characters that effort could have gone into reshaping. Blaze didn't have to be so identical in...everything to Shadow, nor does Mighty have to be identical to Sonic.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that if he were to come back, the only similarity the two would have would be basic physical traits, and even then, that's stretching it. There's no need for Mighty to be a wise craking jerkass with a heart of gold. There's no need for him to use the boost or any other things that Sonic does aside from common moves like the Spin Attack and Spin Dash. There is plenty of room for Mighty to be shaped into something completely and totally different from Sonic, and possibly any other character.

[Tornado]

Hey what's that flying over your head? It's a bird! It's a plane! No wait, it's the entire point of my post!

Nice attempt at a dodge, but I'll rephrase my post for you anyway:

Pick one. If a character like Blaze is redundant because she's too close to Shadow, than "Sonic, Only Now he is Red" sure as shit isn't any better. You don't get to complain about newer characters because you think they are unoriginal in the same post that you complain that people don't like Mighty because he is unoriginal.

Better? Now answer me this: How is your position not massively contradictory? Why should anyone give a damn about a lazy sprite edit last seen 16 years ago when Sega would just whole cloth redesign him anyway, and why should Sega give a damn to the extent that they should write a story around him to get him back?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Tornado

[Kuzu]

If Mighty was "recreated" what exactly would he do? What story would be so important to focus on him, and make him a recurring character? Unless he's just going to be a one shot, in which case bringing him back wouldn't really serve a purpose.

[Blue Blood]

If Mighty was "recreated" what exactly would he do? What story would be so important to focus on him, and make him a recurring character? Unless he's just going to be a one shot, in which case bringing him back wouldn't really serve a purpose.

In a game like SA1, he could be introduced like Big and entirely within his own bubble in the Sonic world. An adventurer, but sort of a parallel to Sonic in that he's just doing his own thing. Or just slip him into the Chaotix as an 'old friend' who left a while ago for some reason but it joining the party again. I dunno. If they were to reintroduce him as a new character it really wouldn't matter how they went about it.

[Kuzu]

In a game like SA1, he could be introduced like Big and entirely within his own bubble in the Sonic world. An adventurer, but sort of a parallel to Sonic in that he's just doing his own thing. Or just slip him into the Chaotix as an 'old friend' who left a while ago for some reason but it joining the party again. I dunno. If they were to reintroduce him as a new character it really wouldn't matter how they went about it.

It kind of does, you don't want a character to have no place in the series, he should fill some kind of niche.

[Blue Blood]

It kind of does, you don't want a character to have no place in the series, he should fill some kind of niche.

He could fill any sort of niche is what I'm saying, like any new character could.

[Aquaslash]

Better? Now answer me this: How is your position not massively contradictory? Why should anyone give a damn about a lazy sprite edit last seen 16 years ago when Sega would just whole cloth redesign him anyway, and why should Sega give a damn to the extent that they should write a story around him to get him back?

I really don't understand why you're so quick to throw things away and make new ones. I don't know why anyone "should" give a damn about any character, even Sonic. People like what they like, and that's all there is to it. People like the old characters, and thus they should be given priority of making new faces and hoping people like them.

As for story? You're asking the wrong guy. I think I've made it clear that I'm not big on story in Sonic games (cause it's mostly awful). I'm all about the gameplay. I see tons of gameplay potential in all the the old guys, and that's really why I want them all back so much. I even feel this for Marine. She was pretty much wasted just like the classic characters. What's even worse is that she's a NPC. Is that what you want? For characters to just be used up and thrown away like Kleenex? You may be down with that, but I'm certainly not.

[Kuzu]

He could fill any sort of niche is what I'm saying, like any new character could.

I'm saying though, if he's brought back as a one shot, then fine, but if he returns as a recurring character in the same vein as the Chaotix is what Im talking about.

Off topic: Does your sig change at random?

[Aquaslash]

I'm saying though, if he's brought back as a one shot, then fine, but if he returns as a recurring character in the same vein as the Chaotix is what Im talking about.

Ideally, all of these guys would get the Chaotix treatment, where they'd be redesigned and given new things to do. They'd also probably get a listing on Sonic Channel and be open for merchandise and the like.

However, at the rate they're going now, we're going to have one of these threads about KNUCKLES XD

[Diogenes]

Rule of Funny/Rule of Cool. Though Eggman can arguably go into any category with the right machine.

But he's not using any machines (aside from the Gear which doesn't confer any kind of strength; he's just straight up punching cars). And you didn't address any of my other concerns.

I'm not a fan of creating millions of faces and then discarding them after one use like condoms.

So let's not take either extreme, because they're both dumb. Try to make good use of the characters you have, but don't refuse to make a new one when there's good reason to.

Because at least with Mighty, all we really have to design appearance wise is new gloves and new shoes. Plus we have a basic theme to work around.

Gloves and shoes are practically half a Sonic character's design, and "basic themes" are a dime a dozen. Just pick an animal and a color at random and you've got about as much done as you do with Mighty.

Might as well throw the fans a bone here instead of having to hpe on the character being an ensemble darkhorse.

Why do we have to hype them? Just make a character that's good, fitting, useful, etc. And I really don't like pandering to arbitrary whims.

I can understand that. However, remember that this is Sonic the Hedgehog, where the characters are literally exactly what they say on the tin.

Amy Rose: Literally a flower.

Ray: A line with one end point

Vector: A geometic entity with a magnitude and a direction

Charmy: Is in any way charming.

I'm sure if there were strength obstacles in chaostix, Knuckles/Mighty/Vector would have taken advantage of them, and the same will apply if Mighty returns.

And I'm not convinced, because in neither game he appeared in was any attempt made to portray him as anything more than Red Sonic.

I dunno. Maybe with Marine, and MAYBE with the Werehog. But I could tell the same story that was told from Blaze and Silver's parts of 06 and Rivals with pretty much any other character.

Okay, so, how do you explain how Tails, or Knuckles, or Big, or Shadow, or Espio, or Metal Sonic, or Amy, or the President's Secretary ends up in an apocalyptic future? Now, how are they convinced to go kill Sonic to prevent said future (Metal excepted since he'd do that anyway)? How is Metal convinced to help Sonic rather than kill him? And how exactly is Big going to pose any real threat to Sonic?

And how is any of this better than creating a character that actually fills that role, of the naive kid growing up in a ruined future given a chance to fix it?

The 06 one is even more jarring because Silver's a new character and could have just been from Blaze's world instead of the future.

How would '06's story make any degree of sense if that were the case.

Consistency would be nice :/

Consistency for consistency's sake is not a particularly important value. I have no reservations about ditching it when it gets in the way of something more important.

I really don't understand why you're so quick to throw things away and make new ones.

Nothing quick about this man, he's been gone for fucking ages.

I'm all about the gameplay.

You're still supporting a character that's nothing but Sonic+red paint.

Is that what you want? For characters to just be used up and thrown away like Kleenex?

No, I don't, and I don't think anyone here does, so you can kindly retire that strawman.

[upg]

I think it would be cool to have Mighty back!

[Rawpowered]

Diogenes is right, Mighty is not a character to bother with, he's not even slightly different compared to Sonic other than a red shell going into his arse. It's the same with characters like Bark the Polar Bear and Bean the Dynamite, their time has passed for a good reason, they're outdated and not worthy of a comeback.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Rawpowered

[Blue Blood]

I'm saying though, if he's brought back as a one shot, then fine, but if he returns as a recurring character in the same vein as the Chaotix is what Im talking about.

Off topic: Does your sig change at random?

Anthro's usually are recurring characters. The only one's that haven't done been such are one-shots created for a fighting game and Marine. There's a multitude of way they could go with personalities, just as is the case with any new character. Yes a lot archtypes have been covered, but there's no real limit.

Off-topic: Every time you refresh or load a new page, yup.

[Aquaslash]

But he's not using any machines (aside from the Gear which doesn't confer any kind of strength; he's just straight up punching cars). And you didn't address any of my other concerns.

Considering that the chararcter abilities tend to be modded to suit the gameplay (See: Rivals 1 and 2), the same ness isn't really a concern. There are a few characters that can be dual types as needed. Amy and Rouge spring to mind.

So let's not take either extreme, because they're both dumb. Try to make good use of the characters you have, but don't refuse to make a new one when there's good reason to.

I can agree to that. I'm all for making new faces when needed, but with a pool of characters so big, they just haven't been needed as much.

Gloves and shoes are practically half a Sonic character's design, and "basic themes" are a dime a dozen. Just pick an animal and a color at random and you've got about as much done as you do with Mighty.

That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. At least with Mighty, you have a basic established design that fits within the game verse. Half of the Freedom Fighters don't even have that. You only need look at deviantart to see plenty of examples of character design failure. Even Silver himself went through hundreds of designs before they settled on the final. I doubt it'd take hundreds of sketches to make a cool pair of shoes and gloves.

Why do we have to hype them? Just make a character that's good, fitting, useful, etc. And I really don't like pandering to arbitrary whims.

There is nothing at all wrong with fanservice, man. What if Mighty happens to be "good, fitting, useful, etc"? Two birds with one stone.

Amy Rose: Literally a flower.

Ray: A line with one end point

Vector: A geometic entity with a magnitude and a direction

Charmy: Is in any way charming.

The color Rose is a shade of pink, vector dashes in 8 directions in Chaotix, "ray of sunshine" (cause he's yellow), and Charmy just might be charming to some.

And I'm not convinced, because in neither game he appeared in was any attempt made to portray him as anything more than Red Sonic.

Well, I can't help you there. He's "Mighty" because the developers said so. That's really all there is to it.

Okay, so, how do you explain how Tails, or Knuckles, or Big, or Shadow, or Espio, or Metal Sonic, or Amy, or the President's Secretary ends up in an apocalyptic future?

The same way Blaze did apparently.

Now, how are they convinced to go kill Sonic to prevent said future (Metal excepted since he'd do that anyway)? How is Metal convinced to help Sonic rather than kill him? And how exactly is Big going to pose any real threat to Sonic?

Rivals 2 saw an interdimensional demo brainwash most of those characters into trying to kill their friends. Who's to say the new villain couldn't have done the same. Metal Sonic could forcibly be reprogrammed by said villain, and Big is a 600 pound cat. If he sits on Sonic, he's done for! XD I'll have to tap the depths of my imagination for that one, but I'll come up with something =P

And how is any of this better than creating a character that actually fills that role, of the naive kid growing up in a ruined future given a chance to fix it?

Because Silver is one of the most popular Sonic characters created am I right? As much as I love him, I'll gladly admit that just about anything would have been accepted more than he was.

How would '06's story make any degree of sense if that were the case.

06's story doesn't make any degree of sense the way it is TBH. However Solaris was said to have power over time and dimensions. For a supposed threat to the multiverse, why was he somewhat confined to one area?

Consistency for consistency's sake is not a particularly important value. I have no reservations about ditching it when it gets in the way of something more important.

We are fundamentally different then

Nothing quick about this man, he's been gone for fucking ages.

You're still vehmently against him for the sole reason that you don't like him.

You're still supporting a character that's nothing but Sonic+red paint.

Did you read anything I said about potential gameplay things to do with him?

No, I don't, and I don't think anyone here does, so you can kindly retire that strawman.

The hell is a strawman?

[...]

*eats popcorn*

[Carbo]

*eats popcorn*

Don't spam like this. Make another popcorn joke and you've earned yourself a strike, and that goes out for anyone else who's fitting to do another one.

Keep it chill in here guys.

[...]

Don't spam like this. Make another popcorn joke and you've earned yourself a strike, and that goes out for anyone else who's fitting to do another one.

Keep it chill in here guys.

Sorry. D=

[Diogenes]

Considering that the chararcter abilities tend to be modded to suit the gameplay (See: Rivals 1 and 2), the same ness isn't really a concern.

I think it's a problem when they start adding boring, redundant characters because they need to meet some arbitrary balance. Cream, for example.

I can agree to that. I'm all for making new faces when needed

I'd personally revive every scarapped cahracter ten times over before even THINKING of making a new face.

That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. At least with Mighty, you have a basic established design that fits within the game verse. Half of the Freedom Fighters don't even have that.

Because they had no intention of following those designs, not because it's hard to make a character that follows those designs.

You only need look at deviantart to see plenty of examples of character design failure.

Because 99% of deviant twerps can't even manage a straight line, not because it's absurdly difficult to design an appealing character.

Even Silver himself went through hundreds of designs before they settled on the final. I doubt it'd take hundreds of sketches to make a cool pair of shoes and gloves.

Shoes and gloves are no less a part of the design than anything else. If they took hundreds of sketches to design ol' potleaf, why wouldn't they spend a similar amount on Mighty's footwear?

There is nothing at all wrong with fanservice, man.

What if Mighty happens to be "good, fitting, useful, etc"? Two birds with one stone.

Because I think they can do better crafting a character and a story together rather than waiting for or forcing a story for Mighty to fit in, and when they don't have to live up to the vague and imagined standards of his fanbase.

The color Rose is a shade of pink, vector dashes in 8 directions in Chaotix, "ray of sunshine" (cause he's yellow), and Charmy just might be charming to some.

And Mighty is a tough dude, not necessarily one granted with explicit super strength.

Well, I can't help you there. He's "Mighty" because the developers said so. That's really all there is to it.

Except they never said that?

The same way Blaze did apparently.

We all know '06 is a shittily written game, don't sink to its level.

Rivals 2 saw an interdimensional demo brainwash most of those characters into trying to kill their friends. Who's to say the new villain couldn't have done the same.

A friend of Sonic being brainwashed to fight him is a completely different situation than a stranger being tricked into it. You've made a massive change to a fairly important part of the game's story. Removing the Silver-equivalent's agency completely neuters what little value there is to his story, removing the bit of soul-searching and self doubt over whether killing Sonic is the right thing to do. This is what I've been saying; you can't just swap characters randomly without telling a completely different story.

Because Silver is one of the most popular Sonic characters created am I right? As much as I love him, I'll gladly admit that just about anything would have been accepted more than he was.

There's a lot of reasons to hate Silver. Swapping some familiar face into his shittily written storyline is only going to please stupid people.

06's story doesn't make any degree of sense the way it is TBH.

I don't disagree, but you're dodging the question again.

However Solaris was said to have power over time and dimensions. For a supposed threat to the multiverse, why was he somewhat confined to one area?

Because that's not the story they wanted to tell. '06 focuses on time travel, and while it's a shitty story, it's not going to be any better by shoving interdimensional shit into it and breaking what little symbolism they managed to achieve.

You're still vehmently against him for the sole reason that you don't like him.

I'm against him because I think there's no reason to bring him back besides fanservice, and I do not believe fanservice is inherently good. If he actually had something tangible to contribute I would be alright, but he's a fucking recolor and his only value is in being a blank page.

Did you read anything I said about potential gameplay things to do with him?

Yeah, but why bother using Mighty? Why not make Phil the Pangolin?

The hell is a strawman?

It's when you make up some shallow caricature of your opponent so you can easily knock it down. No one's suggesting a constant revolving door of new characters, so pointing out how ridiculous that is does not contribute to the actual discussion.

[Aquaslash]

I think it's a problem when they start adding boring, redundant characters because they need to meet some arbitrary balance. Cream, for example.

[Diogenes]

For what it's worth, Cream was evidently supposed to be introduced in Sonic Heroes, but then got put in Advance 2 to prevent an overload of new faces.

I think that's only strengthening my case.

However, the problem with this comes in what do we do with the new guys after this? Now that they've been tailor made for one specific role, they're almost useless everywhere.

...no? Not unless the role they were given winks out of existence, and they don't have the foresight to give them a new one.

Oh hey look, that game that while having poor reviews all around sold well enough to become a best seller on the Game Cube.

Regardless of the sales it's a blight on the series, a sickly tumor of blatant fanservice.

Besides, that game's true problems lie in it's execution, not its concept.

...I'm really not sure how to respond to this. How is ShtH not a conceptually repulsive game?

It's a series aimed at little kids.

Little kids that know what a vector is?

he guy that's named "Mighty" is going to be one that, when given the chance, will demonstrate acts of "might". I don't know how to say it any better. :/

Except that he was given two opportunities to do so and failed to both times.

Actually, it can be used to tell the same story. Let's use the Ifrit's possession. We can put it in X character's place, and have them struggle to overcome said possesion and influences over the course of the game. It's the same question of right and wrong, just changed to suit a different need.

That is not in any way the same question. Having some magic shit messing up someone's mind is an entirely different context than questioning if actions that were entirely your own were wrong. Like, yeah, you could stick in some scene of them questioning what they're doing, but the meaning of it is completely different.

I'm not dodging the question,

You are dodging the question, because you are not addressing how your changes still allow for a coherent story and are instead going off on a tangent about how '06's story already sucks.

I'm bringing up a point that was actually in the story but went nowhere. Why even mention other dimensions if the villain is just some silly Time Lord?

I don't remember the original context but I would guess it's just showing that it is supremely powerful and can/will destroy everything.

That's actually a pretty significant value in and of itself.

The value of "nothing" does not make him an appealing character.

It's easier to put him somewhere than say, Fang or Metal Knuckles, who have almost written themselves into corners.

What you call written into a corner I call actually having a purpose. You can't have a character that fits everywhere. Not if you want them to be worth a damn.

At least with Mighty you can play the "hey remember this guy" card and pretend you actually care what the fans say.

I'd rather they actually care, and not pull the same kind of shit that led to Sonic 4.

It sure sounds like that's what your'e suggesting though. With such willingness to make new guys and such aversion to bringing back the older ones, it's almost the only conclusion I can make.

I'm saying they shouldn't bring back worthless characters. Fang, Bean, Bark, I could see a use for them. They have fairly unique designs, some unique abilities (Bark not so much), somewhat defined personalities...there's actually something to build from, and I could support any of them returning. But Mighty? Mighty's nothing. All he offers is a chance to pander to his inexplicable fanbase.

And that said, I think I will agree to agree to disagree. I don't think we're getting anywhere with this anymore.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

[Komodin]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. How the hell is that fanservice? I can understand the character, but that's about it. Very few asked for a game the way they did ShTH.

[Diogenes]

It's basically the wet dream of all the little Shadow fanboys who thought he was so dark and cool and serious, so they took him and gave him his own game and a gun and a motorcycle and had him shoot aliens and soldiers.

Fanservice doesn't have to be for us, remember.