How do you feel about Shadow being Sonic's Rival

[chippu]

We all know that Knuckles and Metal Sonic have been the Blue Blur's adversary for a long time, but as time passes on, a Black Shadow of Sonic keeps showing up our Hero and becoming stronger each game he's in. Basically, Shadow has been hightened today as Sonic's strongest arch rival. So how does this effect you, him being a obstacle and a equal to Sonic in everyway all the while being stronger than Knuckles and Metal Sonic in terms of abitlies?

[Diogenes]

If they'd actually make Shadow Sonic's rival I might actually see some value in keeping Shadow around (though I'd much rather they use Metal Sonic). But...they don't. I mean, in what way is Shadow an "obstacle" to Sonic? They're on the same side, they're usually working for the same basic goals, and in general neither is going to waste time in a slap-fight when there's more important things to take care of. Hell, they haven't even had all that much interaction since SA2...

[Solly]

If they'd actually make Shadow Sonic's rival I might actually see some value in keeping Shadow around (though I'd much rather they use Metal Sonic). But...they don't. I mean, in what way is Shadow an "obstacle" to Sonic? They're on the same side, they're usually working for the same basic goals, and in general neither is going to waste time in a slap-fight when there's more important things to take care of. Hell, they haven't even had all that much interaction since SA2...

The last time they fought (not counting Chronicles) was in Sonic Rivals, in which everybody is a rival to everyone and everything. So yeah, I too don't really see how Shadow is an "obstacle".

[Leonard]

I don't think Shadow really has much use or value to the games anymore. In SA2 they still had the great backstory to back him up, but nowadays he's just become yet another one Sonic's stereotypical friends that get crowbarred into the games.

I mean sure, he's not that bad of a character, and he definitely has a lot of potential, but it's just not all that anymore.

[Badnik Zero]

I like Shadow as a character, and the extent of his powers compared to Sonic's are up for some debate. He makes a good rival, and his backstory is as interesting as Knuckles'. The thing I don't like is the direction he's heading in. First he replaced Knuckles in the role of primary rival, and he's following that same path into friend territory. Okay, maybe it was obvious from S3&K that Knuckles couldn't remain an enemy forever. But it irritates me that the series needs to turn these characters into cliches. Two enemies become rivals become reluctant allies become friends? That happened twice? I don't want Knuckles to be Piccolo and Shadow to be Vegeta. I actually can't stand DBZ. But that's what's going on here.

[redmenace]

I like Shadow, I'm one of those that was happy they brought him back but that doesn't really say what I feel about it now.

I think he needs to take a different stance than the one he has now, otherwise he has no place in the franchise. He can't be a friend or a neutral, that's Knuckles' place and neither would Shadow work with Sonic like Knuckles. For them to be Rivals, Shadow has to jump the goody bandwagon, skip the neutral and go straight in for the enemy one.

This brings trouble, because Eggman likes to ride his train on his own (and we all like it as well), occasionally giving a ride to the monster of the week. So what can I say, it's hard, but Shadow cannot stay nice, or neutral to Sonic.

Edited May 12, 2009 by redmenace

[Dr. Mechano]

Shadow. The posterboy of the Sonic franchise's darker, edgier, angstier, and (to people like me) whinier image.

I mean, sure, on the one hand he's nothing like Sonic in personality. Sonic's happy, Shadow's... usually needlessly disgruntled, I guess? I don't know, but with all the emotional range from "gruffly aggressive" to "gruffly melancholic", he's definitely at the opposite end of the personality spectrum.

Whether or not you consider that good breeding ground for rivalry is subjective- Personally, I like Sonic- the happy and confident egotist- to be rivaled with the other happy and confident egotist, Dr. Eggman, who although is very different physically, is quite similar in attitude.

But either way- Shadow. He's off doing his own thing, working for the government, all that good stuff. I actually like this development, since it moves him in a separate direction and relegates him to specific types of plots. His absence from the handheld games and recently Unleashed is, to me, a nice breath of fresh air. And I'm glad that, as of late, they haven't been milking the Shadow cashcow like they were in the past, and that Shadow is just another supporting character with no more significance to Sonic himself than the other "outer cast" would have.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I've always felt that Shadow should be treated more like Wario is in the Mario series. A character that is similar to the main character, but has something of a darker bent to his personality...And yet is still fun rather than depressing.

The main problem with Shadow seems to be that he, for the most part, hasn't been allowed to develop. In Sonic Adventure 2, he was angry at the world, but then found hope, and got over his fear and distrust.

Well, for some reason, as soon as he got his own solo game, he wound up as a caricature of his original self from SA2. He was now even angrier at the world, and could remember even less about his past. It's as if no one was paying attention when he got better at the end of his original appearance.

Supposedly his characterization in Rivals was pretty decent though, from what I've heard he's pretty mellow in those games, and is back on friendly terms with Eggman. Black Knight looked like a good outing for the character, as he pretty much seems like "that one knight who is both more powerful and more over dramatic than the other two knights" than anything particularly angsty.

[Badnik Zero]

But either way - Shadow. He's off doing his own thing, working for the government, all that good stuff. I actually like this development, since it moves him in a separate direction and relegates him to specific types of plots.

I get the idea that they're trying to wedge this third faction in there between Sonic and Eggman, and that's GUN. I don't think GUN stands for much though, they're kind of a gray and unappealing entity with no declared purpose in Sonic's world. Knuckles isn't a neutral anymore, he's a rival hero. If Shadow is going to be a true neutral character, they need to flesh out GUN, which is exactly something they didn't do when they had the chance to in SHtH.

Supposedly his characterization in Rivals was pretty decent though, from what I've heard he's pretty mellow in those games, and is back on friendly terms with Eggman.

Shadow's relationships to those close to him is something else that makes him appealing. Something Chronicles made me consider was that Shadow feels a kinship with Omega since they're both creations of a Robotnik, both artificial beings created with a purpose. Omega chooses his own purpose, like Shadow learned to do. I also wonder how he sees Eggman. The Doctor is related to Maria by blood and resembles Gerald a great deal. In a sense they're cousins. Now he's involved with the military. I see potential for many entanglements there, so I'm not really worried about the story aspect of Shadow. I just don't want to see him become a friendly type.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Badnikz

[Dr. Mechano]

I get the idea that they're trying to wedge this third faction in there between Sonic and Eggman, and that's GUN. I don't think GUN stands for much though, they're kind of a gray and unappealing entity with no declared purpose in Sonic's world. Knuckles isn't a neutral anymore, he's a rival hero. If Shadow is going to be a true neutral character, they need to flesh out GUN, which is exactly something they didn't do when they had the chance to in SHtH.

But is GUN really neutral though?

Aside from their corrupt behavior in the past, present-day GUN is unambiguously good, and fights for the same basic ideas that Sonic does. They fight evildoers and stand to defend the United Federation- That's their present-day purpose, which despite their overall effectiveness, can be generally seen as a good thing. So because of this, with Shadow as a member of GUN, he'd be classified as a heroic character as well, right?

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't call GUN neutral, but they can get away with stuff that Sonic and the rest can't. They're a competing "good", with different methods that could draw them into conflict. I can imagine, in the typical B-movie style, GUN ordering to have an area bombed to wipe out the threat, whereas Sonic and the rest would try to fight it without the massive collateral damage.

I think that's a better thing to do than to have Shadow blatantly swing away from the good end of the scale. Make the conflict one of methods rather than morality.

[Badnik Zero]

I don't know. Everything about GUN suggests ambiguous intentions to me. First, they're a large organization prone to corruption and keeping secrets. Besides their role in the ARK massacre, they kept Shadow in stasis for 50 years, and canonically speaking, his breakout is only a recent development. Their name seems designed with a dual purpose. The Guardian Units of Nations sounds like a good idea, but the acronym - GUN, suggests only force. They're known to fumble their missions, like capturing Sonic in SA2. At the beginning of Chronicles they lead the preemptive strike on Eggman, and their soldiers are particularly cowardly. It's clear from all this that they're an irresponsible military, which often in the real world leads to dead people. It's their job to protect their people from the enemy like they did in SHtH, but the enemy could be Sonic or Gerald and it'd still be their job. I don't think morality enters into what they ultimately do, which is why I call them neutral.

The first sign of reform we saw was when the GUN Commander forgives Shadow in SHtH, feeling awful for what his government had done in the past. But for some reason I don't think that's the end of the shadier side of GUN.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Badnikz

[Dr. Mechano]

At the beginning of Chronicles they lead the preemptive strike on Eggman

To be fair, Sonic and his friends not only endorsed this morally-ambiguous strike, but helped them perform it.

One of many reasons I question the canon status of Chronicles.

I can understand your other points, however.

Edited May 12, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[chippu]

I've always felt that Shadow should be treated more like Wario is in the Mario series. A character that is similar to the main character, but has something of a darker bent to his personality...And yet is still fun rather than depressing.

Your opinion. Shadow has always been treated as a foil to Sonic. Shadow acts broody to seperate his attitude with Sonic's happy go care attitude. It's the way Shadow compares to Sonic that gives him appeal, and kids like the badass dark and devil types.

The main problem with Shadow seems to be that he, for the most part, hasn't been allowed to develop. In Sonic Adventure 2, he was angry at the world, but then found hope, and got over his fear and distrust.

I see you haven't played Sonic 06.

Well, for some reason, as soon as he got his own solo game, he wound up as a caricature of his original self from SA2. He was now even angrier at the world, and could remember even less about his past. It's as if no one was paying attention when he got better at the end of his original appearance.

Again 06, Shadow has a duty to the goverment and puts his troubles of the world over his shoulder and states he'd fight back and do what he wants in the name of his own free will. Basically he puts his depressing past out the way, and focuses on what he can do in the present.

Supposedly his characterization in Rivals was pretty decent though, from what I've heard he's pretty mellow in those games, and is back on friendly terms with Eggman. Black Knight looked like a good outing for the character, as he pretty much seems like "that one knight who is both more powerful and more over dramatic than the other two knights" than anything particularly angsty.

Shadow is two things, scowl and frown. But thats due to him being a foil to Sonic. His personality is now more loyal and serious to the point nowadays.

[Scorch]

Truthfully, I honestly don't see the point in Sonic and Shadow being rivals anymore. Honestly, they've already settled their differences in Sonic Adventure 2 (and Shadow the Hedgehog, but the "Dark" ending isn't considered canon). Also, they both fight for the exact same reason; saving the world.

[ovarloard]

Fighting for the same cause doesn't mean they're going to be rivals.

In fact, it's likely to make them compete to see who can do it better; in other words, they are rivals.

Edited May 12, 2009 by OvErLoRd

[Solly]

Fighting for the same cause doesn't mean they're going to be rivals.

In fact, it's likely to make them compete to see who can do it better;

That hasn't really happened though. Has it?

[ovarloard]

Not that I've seen, but it's kind of what makes a rival a rival. Competing against someone to do the same thing better.

Edited May 12, 2009 by OvErLoRd

[Dr. Mechano]

Not that I've seen, but it's kind of what makes a rival a rival. Competing against someone to do the same thing better.

But does Shadow do that? He's all "Hmph" and "I'm not interested" in his typically grumpy worldview. If anything, Shadow shows far less interest in besting Sonic than any of Sonic's many rivals.

Which brings me to my point- To try to make the title "Sonic's rival" apply to one character is outlandish. Sonic has an entire rival's gallery featuring Eggman, Knuckles, Metal Sonic, and yes, I suppose even Shadow. Each rival Sonic for different things in different ways, and because of that, there's no one rival for the character. He has many.

Edited May 12, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[chippu]

Shadow wants to prove he's the ultimate lifeform. Still does, he never wants anyone to best him at being stronger than him. This is why him and Sonic have such a strong resentment towards each other, they want no one pooping on there reputation as the best of the best at what they do.

[SuperStingray]

Truth be told, I don't see Shadow as Sonic's rival anymore. I'd say he gave up that side of him by his own game, maybe even by Sonic Battle. I think Sonic's rivalries are dynamic, at least under my definition. His first true rivalry was with Knuckles which ended when Shadow came into play, then Shadow's rivalry with Sonic ended in his own game and now Sonic is more of a rival with Jet.

Edited May 12, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Diogenes]

This is why him and Sonic have such a strong resentment towards each other,

What resentment? I don't see any real resentment going on between them anymore.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Your opinion. Shadow has always been treated as a foil to Sonic. Shadow acts broody to seperate his attitude with Sonic's happy go care attitude. It's the way Shadow compares to Sonic that gives him appeal, and kids like the badass dark and devil types.

I don't mind Shadow being a foil to Sonic. I just think he doesn't have to miserable all the time to be a foil. He doesn't even have to be miserable to be "dark and edgy." You can have a dark bent to your character while still being essentially optimistic/happy. I figure Eggman and Rouge are proof of that.

[redmenace]

What resentment? I don't see any real resentment going on between them anymore.

This is what fails in the Sonic and Shadow rivalry, they need anger towards one another and not just one sided like Metal Sonic. Knuckles needs some as well but in a different way if he wants to be a credible and different rival. I say different ways to tackle problems at hand and to be angry at Sonic for thinking differently and irresponsably (Sonic says, let's infiltrate the base head on, Knuckles thinks it should be on stealth mode;Sonic says trust Eggman, Knuckles bashes him in the head for being an idiot).

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Sonic says trust Eggman, Knuckles bashes him in the head for being an idiot).

Shurely shome mishtake? Other way round!!

Methinks Sonic's rivalry, in general, is just against whoever's been stupid enough to challenge him to a race / fight / "You can't stop me from destroying the world" most recently. Which probably does make it Jet, at the moment. The hawk is the only one that's really still entertaining the notion he might be faster than Sonic.