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A Trip Down Memory Lane



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For the record, I'm going to put my hands up now and say that this is my third account here; however my other two accounts here are for some reason no longer accessible due to my previous one assumingly been deleted (my email address didn't come match any in the Forgotten Password Form) and my first one, I can't even access the email address' inbox so a password retrieval is pointless.

Second, if this is stuff you already know, then kindly move along; I'm kinda aiming towards the fanboys on this mini-rant/point-I'd-like-to-make.

Thirdly, I apologise if this stirs up any drama from the past. I haven't been here in quite a while (woooah new looknsuch) although my "anti-fanboyism" is as strong as it was when I was last here. (hell it was as strong as it was when Unleashed's gameplay video was leaked)

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Ah, Sonic Adventure 1. What a game that was, eh? Fully 3D gameplay, Adventure Worlds to allow you to go to the next level, being able to play as a whole bunch of characters...

Sure, it had its few share of glitches and the voice-acting was what you could call laughably bad, but we didn't mind.

I mean, it was so popular that it deemed a sequel. Remember?

Sonic_Adventure_2.PNG

Again, fully 3D exploration, gameplay was a little more linear, I'll admit. Voice-acting had improved somewhat. Sure, like its predecessor, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be9-JA0-agw.. but we didn't mind; the story's epicness made up for it (I mean, can you get more epic than the whole world about to be destroyed?)

Now it begs the question... if only we had a Sonic game that had similar mechanics as Sonic Adventure 1 with the fully 3D environments and huge levels, being able to play as multiple characters, and has the story with the same amount of epic as Sonic Adventure 2.. only with the graphics of this console generation's consoles?

...Oh wait.

Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Next-Gen_Box_Art.JPG

Next time someone bitches about "how sonic should be in 2d", remember: more than one fully 3D Sonic game just like Sonic 06 has worked in the past. Just because one didn't work doesn't mean the whole concept doesn't.

For comparison, let's go with, oh, I dunno, Mario; if you liked Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine, but hated Super Mario Galaxy, would it ruin 64 and Sunshine for you?

If you're a fan of the FIFA Games and you didn't like, let's say, FIFA 09, would it ruin FIFAs 97-through-08 for you?

If a band you like released an album that you thought wasn't up to their usual calibre, would you stop listening to their previous albums?

Somehow.. I don't think so.

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Going off on a tangent, I actually bought Sonic 06 a few months ago, knowing that it wouldn't be as "spectacular" as it was going to be. And you know what, I actually enjoy playing it. Yes the loading times are a bitch at times but I'm a patient sort of guy.

Now, I'm not going to hate you if you don't like the game seeing as around 80% of those who've played it don't like it. But basing Sonic 06's performance on your belief that "sonic should be in 2d and he should be the only playable character lolz" is pure ignorance.

Granted, I liked the 2D MegaDrive games as well as the 3D games.. but as for Sonic being the only playable character, I preferred playing as Tails in Sonic 2, 3 and 3&K. Besides, looking back on it, I thought Sonic and the Secret Rings wasn't as spectacular as claimed, but it didn't ruin the series for me.

tl;dr,

--------

Someone once told me that lately Sonic has only been remembered for his 2D titles. I say it's time to think about the 3D titles.

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Granted, I liked the 2D MegaDrive games as well as the 3D games.. but as for Sonic being the only playable character, I preferred playing as Tails in Sonic 2, 3 and 3&K.

To be honest, I feel much the same way. I enjoy playing as Sonic, but I always prefer that the option to switch to someone else be available.

I don't think the problem was so much that there were extra characters, just that you were constantly being forced to play as side characters to get the final ending of the game. I was really happy to see that Black Knight brought the concept of entirely optional characters back into the series, even though it would have been better if one had been able to play as them in any level.

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I generally don't think Sonic "Has to be in 2D to work well" in fact, I am repelled by Sonic Rush. As for Sonic 06... Well the loading times are bad, and the controlling is too stiff, especially for the amigos, who were once a blast to play as, compared to the perfect control you had in Sonic Adventure. If those two problems were fixed I'd probably love it as much as any other Sonic game, ridiculous story be damned.

Edited by Lando The Bat
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2K6 was indeed one game.

But Heroes and Shadow were games too. And general consensus ranges from "somewhat worse than the Adventures" to "absolutely dreadful garbage that was absolutely comparable to 2K6." I lean more to the latter on that, but regardless, 2K6 wasn't a sudden or isolated bad game without any precedents to it- Heroes and Shadow can generally be considered the downward spiral that led up to it.

Third time's a charm, I suppose- 2K6 was the straw that broke the fanbase's back, so to speak.

Unleashed was, in my opinion, leaps and bounds better than the "big three" bad 3D games, though still not as great as the Adventures. Still a huge leap in the right direction though, especially in getting back to a lighthearted, angst-less storyline.

Edited by El Gran Gordo
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Sonic is Sonic is Sonic. I don't understand why there is so much hatred towards Sonic 06. Sure it took ages to load but I sort of enjoyed it.

Sonic Unleashed? Not so much overhyped to the max in my opinion. However, I love the 2D games more than the 3D ones BUT that doesn't mean I think Sega should go back to 2D I think that sega should keep making the 3D but just stop bringing in new characters and new "quirks" for Sonic, just build on what they have to make a God forbid I should use this a STORY.

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Earlier today, my brother made some comment about how Sonic Adventure (which I beat today on the Dreamcast) and other 3D games were nothing like older Sonic games. Something about no alternate routes, straight forward, gimmicky and all that.

Even though he doesn't like them, he states that Sonic Unleashed and the handheld games played more like the older games, being quick, snappy, alternate routes, less gimmicks and things like that.

Though I'd hafta agree with that statement (I must be ill), since I see 3D games being pretty different, just to accomidate with the 3D style. Though I think Sonic Adventure was more similar to previous games in term of speed and all. Games afterwards became quicker and all that jazz!

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First off, LOL at the Next Gen message. Yes, it flopped. We get it already. :D

But I have to agree with you. One game being a major disappointment should not mean that the series is starting to die off. That assumption is beyond RIDICULOUS. Sure, I found Heroes to be average, and I really disliked Sonic Shuffle, but they did not ruin the series for me. In fact, looking back at it now, these so-called "bad" Sonic games and "flaws" in the gameplay make me embrace the series. Because I respect the series for what it IS. If I don't like a game, fine. I just go ahead and play another one.

Now, I think the Adventure gameplay formula can work, just not in the same ol' style anymore. Sonic's speed in Next Gen is almost the same in Adventure, and the gameplay mechanics (Sonic's speed, for example) continued from one game to another. That became a turn-off to some fans, with Next-Gen being the catalyst. Fans wanted something different from the past Sonic games, and Unleashed was the result.

I think that sega should keep making the 3D but just stop bringing in new characters and new "quirks" for Sonic, just build on what they have to make a God forbid I should use this a STORY.
Sonic Team did make a rather interesting story, all right. *pokes at Black Knight's storyline :3*
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For the record, I'm going to put my hands up now and say that this is my third account here; however my other two accounts here are for some reason no longer accessible due to my previous one assumingly been deleted (my email address didn't come match any in the Forgotten Password Form) and my first one, I can't even access the email address' inbox so a password retrieval is pointless.

First off, I'm guessing the reason you can't access your old account is because the old forum crashed, and everyone had to sign up anew. You know, since you haven't been here in a while, I assumed you might not know about the "reboot".

Someone once told me that lately Sonic has only been remembered for his 2D titles. I say it's time to think about the 3D titles.

Yes, this.

Besides the storyline of the games, I've found all the 3D games fun. I don't judge on loading times, glitches, and whatnot. I judge based on how fun the game is as an overall package. I don't care about glitches, unless they're something that will constantly get in the way of having fun. If I get stuck in a certain place every time I run through the level, and that is a necessary part of the level, then, of course, I'll hate it. But if it's something that doesn't happen every time, or if it glitches up based on something else I had already done, it's fine with me.

And since even '06 didn't have these kind of glitches...

I liked the 2D games, but I love the 3D adventures, with the exception of the Werehog.

Though the critics keep saying "No," I'll keep saying "Yes," to Sonic games.

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It sort of bothers me that modern Sonic is only seen as terrible through the worst titles, namely Heroes, Shadow and 06. There's plenty of great, or at least decent, one's out there- Rush Adventure, Advance, Battle, Riders ZG, etc. Yes, I know those are all subjectively categorized; reorganize them if you want, but I've heard critics say Sonic hasn't been in a decent game in 10 years and despite how terrible the worst ones are, they'd know that's just not true if they thought about it. I know none of them, even the best ones, reach the standard set by the original games. But while I have nothing against a reviewer who genuinely dislikes the game for what it is, that's sort of a clouding criteria in their judgment.

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Unleashed was, in my opinion, leaps and bounds better than the "big three" bad 3D games, though still not as great as the Adventures. Still a huge leap in the right direction though, especially in getting back to a lighthearted, angst-less storyline.

I agree with this and all of those that review Sonic games should think about it as well.

Sonic works in 3D, it's hard but it works, and Unleashed is a very giant step in the right direction.

Like someone said, I don'tlike Rush either. I don't think just putting a blue hedgehog in a 2D envyronment automatically makes it work. It doesn't.

Earlier today, my brother made some comment about how Sonic Adventure (which I beat today on the Dreamcast) and other 3D games were nothing like older Sonic games. Something about no alternate routes, straight forward, gimmicky and all that.

Even though he doesn't like them, he states that Sonic Unleashed and the handheld games played more like the older games, being quick, snappy, alternate routes, less gimmicks and things like that.

Though I'd hafta agree with that statement (I must be ill), since I see 3D games being pretty different, just to accomidate with the 3D style. Though I think Sonic Adventure was more similar to previous games in term of speed and all. Games afterwards became quicker and all that jazz!

He hasn't played SA that well if he says that it has no alternate routes (Windy Valley and Speed Highway are full of them) and straight forward? Ice cap's cave and Twinkle Park cry in the corner. The whole Red Mountain wonders what's wrong with this as well. SA2 I'm not even going to comment.

Edited by redmenace
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Unleashed was, in my opinion, leaps and bounds better than the "big three" bad 3D games, though still not as great as the Adventures. Still a huge leap in the right direction though, especially in getting back to a lighthearted, angst-less storyline.

I actually found Unleashed far superior to ANY 3D Sonic game released, ever, including the Adventure games. It's made much better than any of them, it's more polished, it's more fun, the voice acting and cutscenes are much better (At least better than SA1), the game isn't clutter with characters, and it's just... better. The Adventure games were littered with bugs and glitches, while I've yet to find any significant ones in Unleashed since I bought it. The only thing Unleashed did wrong was the idea of the Werehog (The Werehog gameplay itself is fine, but the idea of Sonic turning into one was just fucking stupid), and making the plot really fucking stupid near the end of the game. Otherwise, it's a pretty great game with tons of replay value, I look foward to another Hedgehog Engine Sonic game.

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Again, I don't find that the concept of the Werehog is stupid so much that it was brought in through terrible context. Had the series remained true to itself over the years, I could pretty much guarantee that the Werehog would have been seen as just an enjoyable change of pace. But since this is not the case...

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I actually found Unleashed far superior to ANY 3D Sonic game released, ever, including the Adventure games. It's made much better than any of them, it's more polished, it's more fun, the voice acting and cutscenes are much better (At least better than SA1), the game isn't clutter with characters, and it's just... better. The Adventure games were littered with bugs and glitches, while I've yet to find any significant ones in Unleashed since I bought it. The only thing Unleashed did wrong was the idea of the Werehog (The Werehog gameplay itself is fine, but the idea of Sonic turning into one was just fucking stupid), and making the plot really fucking stupid near the end of the game. Otherwise, it's a pretty great game with tons of replay value, I look foward to another Hedgehog Engine Sonic game.

You forget, the Adventures were made YEARS ago on a vastly inferior console. Of course Unleashed is MADE better, technology is better. And yes, the old games have more bugs, but Super Mario 64 has a lot of bugs in comparison to Super Mario Galaxy.

I prefer Sonic Adventure to Sonic Unleashed because, well, at the time, it was the pinnacle of what the Dreamcast could achieve graphically and it was a successful step of bringing Sonic to 3D, maintaining platforming and speed and balancing it well with solid controls. You also had the option of playing as the other characters, but they weren't forced on you. And besides Big, they were all pretty fun to play as, IMO. Sure, Amy was bad, but I think you could persevere through 3 short levels. It's also pretty...well, nostalgic, and what they accomplished at the time was amazing! The story was also interesting, but not overbearing. Sonic Unleashed was great in the day stages, but placed TOO much emphasis on speed, and the metal collecting was bullshit. The Werehog wasn't bad, but some (and only some) of his levels dragged on horribly! I wish they used more streamlined levels, like in the Wii-version. Also, his gameplay style was so jarringly different from Sonic's, and Sonic Adventure didn't suffer this flaw with the exception of Big and Gamma, and even Gamma had a semblance of speed. But that's just opinion, and I agree, I look forward to the next Hedgehog engine game; I just hope it's more balanced.

Edited by EXshad
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Again, I don't find that the concept of the Werehog is stupid so much that it was brought in through terrible context. Had the series remained true to itself over the years, I could pretty much guarantee that the Werehog would have been seen as just an enjoyable change of pace. But since this is not the case...

Ditto. It's like so many people are tired of gimmicks, good or bad, in a Sonic game that whenever one comes up it gets written off, which makes sense. People just want to see Sonic done right, and Unleashed was a great step forward in that direction. However, Sonic Team felt the need to say "Oh, we'll do Sonic good, and we'll even pull off the gimmick well, too!" Getting a little pretentious, much?

Werehog wasn't bad either, but, it was flawed in its design in comparison to the Day Stages. The flow of 5 minute levels going at breakneck speed followed by 15 minute sections of average speed just doesn't work, no matter how good either is.

Still, getting back on topic...

I ADORED Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, though when I get back to it, I liked the feel of Adventure more. Yeah, SA2 will always have the best story, and the least gimmicks, like Big, but...something about Adventure 1 just feels good to me. The short and stubby Sonic, the Egg Carrier, the Adventure Fields were pretty good, and each level had a little gimmick in it, just like the older games, but done fresh. And the music...I don't have anything against SA2's soundtrack, and the vocal songs were epic win (Live and Learn, Supporting Me, oh yeah!) but...again, Sonic Adventure's level's just pop out in style, sound, and design much more than SA2 to me.

I gotta agree with Gran Gordo as well, there WERE other games between the Adventure series and Sonic 06. I can go back and pick up and play Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 (In fact, I think I'll go play SA1 after this, lol) and have a blast, and I play Unleashed nearly more than any other game I have just having fun getting S ranks and speed runs...

Yet, the other day, I tried to pick up Heroes. I had a little smile at the level art and music, but it quickly faded when I found myself missing jumps due to a HORRIBLE camera (once I went on an auto loop with Sonic and went straight through the floor after going through. Seriously? <_< )

It's just frustrating how Sonic is always the big whipping boy to critics...but then again, their opinion doesn't really seem to matter that much. People buy Sonic. He's still gonna go strong, whether critics go nuts or not, because he still has an image to the ordinary public, and a few gamers. And I'll keep buying Sonic, too (well...the good games anyways. :P)...so...lets just hope he keeps taking turns for the better. :)

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I actually found Unleashed far superior to ANY 3D Sonic game released, ever, including the Adventure games. It's made much better than any of them, it's more polished, it's more fun, the voice acting and cutscenes are much better (At least better than SA1), the game isn't clutter with characters, and it's just... better. The Adventure games were littered with bugs and glitches, while I've yet to find any significant ones in Unleashed since I bought it. The only thing Unleashed did wrong was the idea of the Werehog (The Werehog gameplay itself is fine, but the idea of Sonic turning into one was just fucking stupid), and making the plot really fucking stupid near the end of the game. Otherwise, it's a pretty great game with tons of replay value, I look foward to another Hedgehog Engine Sonic game.

Nah, it was very good in almost everything but there's some stuff from Adventures that is missing. It's called proper physics (not that either of the adventures was very good but it was still there and you could take advantage of it) and spindash. Everything else is fine in my opinion, but heavy momentum gameplay and even more multiple paths like the classics is needed (ahd perhaps, a little more colour and wackiness in levels). Keep in mind that I haven't played Eggman Land yet though.

I don't dislike the Werehog either nor do I think it's a bad idea. Sonic was never about making sense, so him turning into a monster isn't all that out there to begin with. It's actually funny to see Sonic coping with having to deal with things without his speed. Bitter fans will cry of course, which is somewhat stupid. Just beat the levels and then go back to the day time levels until your heart's content.

Edited by redmenace
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Just beat the levels and then go back to the day time levels until your heart's content.
That is where the complaints come in though. Some may like the Werehog as a change of pace, some may hate it for breaking the flow, but either way, people that don't want the Werehog shouldn't be forced to play something they didn't want the game for. Edited by A Ham Sandwich
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