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FlameKoetsu

Something I want to know

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S4E1 is a terrible game that rips most of its level themes, enemies, and bosses from previous games, with almost no new content or ideas.

NSMB is a pretty good game that throws in a few references to past games, with a large amount of new content.

This, this and this. Even though I'm an extremely huge Sonic fan, Sonic 4: Episode 1 is probably the worst Sonic game I've ever played. Broken physics, controls and gameplay, plastic-y graphics, rehashes of past levels and bosses, and mediocre music. Edited by Dr. Felix

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SEGA just did it wrong. They took rehashing to the extreme where it was the exact same thing.

Nintendo just did it to the point where they got what was good from the old games and improved on it, adding new features in the process.

(Also, I couldn't help but notice that the text saying "It's Only Bad When Sonic Does It" is from Bioshock. Just a little fun fact.)

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Furthermore form what Dio has said, the Mario series practically lives off of it's own history. Every game is new and it's own thing, but lots of nostalgic elements exist all around. And besides, Sonic 4 was Sonic 4, not New Sonic the Hedgehog.

(Also, I couldn't help but notice that the text saying "It's Only Bad When Sonic Does It" is from Bioshock. Just a little fun fact.)

Huh? You mean the font? It's just Andes.

Edited by HYDROCITEE

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SEGA just did it wrong. They took rehashing to the extreme where it was the exact same thing.

Nintendo just did it to the point where they got what was good from the old games and improved on it, adding new features in the process.

(Also, I couldn't help but notice that the text saying "It's Only Bad When Sonic Does It" is from Bioshock. Just a little fun fact.)

I totally agree with this.

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I think if NSMB was half as bad as sonic 4 then it'd be getting ripped apart as well. NSMB wasn't bad, it just wasn't anything special unlike its amazing Wii sequel, I hope the 3DS NSMB improves on the NSMBWii

Mario is god and can do no wrong.

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Although I find Mario's gameplay to be rather dull, there's no getting away from the fact that NSMB is a well-made game with original content, while Sonic 4 is not.

Edited by Lungo

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The iconic bridge battle was a nostalgic reference to the old games, with the other bosses qualifying as new content. Strictly speaking, Sonic 4 was a lot more re-hashy than NSMB was.

Sonic is a series that sets a precedent for having new common enemies and bosses in each installment, which is why Sonic 4's approach is especially glaring.

To use a positive example, I thought reusing the Eggmobile Hammer Ball and Drill Eggman bosses in Sonic Advance's X-Zone was a clever throwback. That was handled well, and the game's overall boss/enemy roster was fresh and new. Advance was an example of doing it right.

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Dio basically hit the nail on the head.

However, I still think that a few of the more recent Mario games shouldn't be exempt.

SM3D Land is a perfect example. It does almost nothing new, and doesn't advance or enhance Mario's 3D formula at all. You take games like Galaxy and Galaxy 2, chock full of inventive and innovative concepts and gameplay elements. But then you get a game like Mario 3D Land and it's nothing new or special. As far as Mario games go, it's just there. Yes it looks beautiful, soundtrack is nice albeit rather unmemorable, controls absolutely fine like every other Mario game but it's just so painfully uninspired. It rehashes level designs and level gimmicks, it rehashes power-ups (for the exception of the Boomerang Flower and even that doesn't feel all that amazing), it rehashes boss concepts, and the level design is bland and consists a lot of the time of just floating blocks in the sky that define a painfully linear path. This kind of thing worked well in the Galaxy games because they had gravity mechanics which made it feel a lot more unique and definitive. This just feels generic. Still fun (only because of the core gameplay being so tight), but easy and uninspired.

Now there's a difference between throwbacks and rehashing. The final boss of SM3D Land is a throwback. Sonic Advance's X Zone bosses were a throwback. Throwback Galaxy was a throwback. What Sonic 4 and SM3D Land (for the most part) did was rehash.

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People are just obsessed with finding flaws in a Sonic game...especially one that's supposed to re-capture classic gameplay, that's what I've learned from my stay so far, on the other hand Mario is perfect, because the general public views him that way and anyone who disagrees needs to die or something. I'm not defending or bashing Sonic 4, it's just I don't have a personal attachment to the genesis games therefore I really don't care...I find classic gameplay in SG very enjoyable, but many people hate it for not being exactly like the genesis games from what I gather. Sorry, but this all seems ridiculous to me.

Edited by Meteor Smash!!

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S4E1 is a terrible game that rips most of its level themes, enemies, and bosses from previous games, with almost no new content or ideas.

NSMB is a pretty good game that throws in a few references to past games, with a large amount of new content.

I'm not gonna say it was a terrible game. SONIC 06 was a terrible game. Sonic 4 was just passable. Aside from that I agree with you....AGAIN.

Why is Diogenes always right?

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Frankly, I find the whole mentality of "Mario fans are blind sheep who obviously give their series undue praise no matter what" to be an unfair strawman argument to deflect unfavorable comparisons of Sonic to Mario. As a longtime Mario fan myself, I can tell you that the Mario fanbase calls out problems with the series where we see them. For that matter, mainstream gaming media doesn't ignore or gloss over these flaws either.

Mario may get a generally better rap than Sonic does, but I don't feel that's due to bias. It's due to Mario consistently turning out a better product, in my humble opinion; And I say that as someone who likes the Sonic series quite a bit.

Edited by Flam

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Frankly, I find the whole mentality of "Mario fans are blind sheep who obviously give their series undue praise no matter what" to be an unfair strawman argument to deflect unfavorable comparisons of Sonic to Mario. As a longtime Mario fan myself, I can tell you that the Mario fanbase calls out problems with the series where we see them. For that matter, mainstream gaming media doesn't ignore or gloss over these flaws either.

Mario may get a generally better rap than Sonic does, but I don't feel that's due to bias. It's due to Mario consistently turning out a better product, in my humble opinion; And I say that as someone who likes the Sonic series quite a bit.

I would really like to think this way someday. I must have crappy luck, because I keep on running into the crowd that the bold describes.

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Frankly, I find the whole mentality of "Mario fans are blind sheep who obviously give their series undue praise no matter what" to be an unfair strawman argument to deflect unfavorable comparisons of Sonic to Mario. As a longtime Mario fan myself, I can tell you that the Mario fanbase calls out problems with the series where we see them. For that matter, mainstream gaming media doesn't ignore or gloss over these flaws either.

Mario may get a generally better rap than Sonic does, but I don't feel that's due to bias. It's due to Mario consistently turning out a better product, in my humble opinion; And I say that as someone who likes the Sonic series quite a bit.

Indeed. That's the other thing about Mario. His games do very little wrong. They all look beautiful, they all have amazing soundtracks, they all have near flawless controls and balanced physics and mechanics. Mario games have been like this pretty much forever. Sonic hasn't quite found his groove again, but Mario's always had it. Though the problems with Mario games now is the fact that some of them don't do enough RIGHT. New Super Mario Bros Wii and the aforementioned Mario 3D Land are excellent examples. They lack any kind of ambition.

Why is Diogenes always right?

It's the avatar. It's the expression of complete omnipotence o_o

I mean just look at those deep yellow eyes. They're staring into our souls!

Edited by SiLeNtDo0m

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