The Amazing Spider-Man (The Movies)

[Mono]

To be honest, I'm very worried about this movie. It could be a waste of $10 or worth it. The trailers have given me mixed feelings.

[Sami]

Honestly I never understood why so many people liked 2. I thought there were way too many cheesy scenes. Too much of a focus on annoying extras. And I felt the movie really drags on because of him being so focused on Mary Jane and quitting spiderman. It didn't feel like the amazing movie to me that everyone constantly says. Batman Begins yes, Dark Knight yes, Iron Man yes, Raimi's first 1 & 2 not so much. I did like the first half of 1, but then it has then it starts to have the same problem with 2 with cheesy scenes/acting.

I've very rarely seen anyone put any other superhero movies on the same level as Nolan's films, so I'm not really sure where you're getting that from.

Personally, I enjoy Spider-Man 2 a lot better than Marvel's films (I've seen Captain America, Iron Man, and The Incredible Hulk) because it's more than just a superhero movie. I actually cared about the inner conflict Peter was going through, I actually felt sorry for Octavius, and I actually felt invested in Harry's ironic loathing of Spider-Man. Iron Man just seemed like a two-hour long collection of "OH THAT TONY STARK, WHAT A CARD" moments, but since I realize I'm in a very small minority regarding that, I won't pursue the argument further. I'll just say that I'm personally very relieved that Sony owns the rights to Spider-Man.

Ironically 3 is my favorite of the Raimi trilogy. Which is funny because everyone, and I mean everyone despised that movie. I remember when I was in highschool, my teacher asked about whether 3 was any good, and everyone in the class was like "It's terrible!"

And when I saw it, I couldn't understand why. It felt the most fun to me. It had that fun vibe. Less focus on Mary Jane, and it was entertaining. It actually felt like what Spidey should be to me. Goth Peter was hilarious to me, which is what they intended. But people take it the wrong way and say it looks ridiculous. I'd rather they continued with the original cast but with a different director since Raimi's idea for wanting to do the Vulture was terrible. And Tobey still looks young. But they were so stubborn and would only return if Raimi directed, c'mon how lame can they be? Different directors take the helm of continuing series all the time. It's not like these movies are cinematic masterpieces like Chris Nolan's films. But whatever.

Again, I'm thrilled because I absolutely hated Maguire and Dunst's performances. Different strokes for different folks.

I'd also argue that Spider-Man 3 had far too much emphasis on Mary Jane; not the other way around. She was constantly bitching and moaning throughout the entire movie (something that any fan of the comics would know is not how she's supposed to act at all). Emo Peter was an idiotic idea from the get-go because the Venom Suit is supposed to subtly amplify the host's negative emotions, making Peter more temperamental and violent. He didn't turn into a total dick (*cough*SPIDERMAN3*cough*), nor did he act like a fucking tool in the middle of the street (Seriously, what the fuck was that?) He was helplessly addicted to something that gave him a huge rush and plenty of joy, only to destroy his life completely as time goes by.

Social commentary is best when subtle; not when it's so stupid that people think it's a joke.

[PeanutButterDimond]

I have to pretty much agree with Dissident. Though there are things that I don't agree with(I like the Marvel films and Tobey's performance) but different strokes.

One thing Dissident said that I think it the nail on the head is that Spider-Man 2 was more than a superhero movie. This is something that I one hundred percent agree with. What has made Spider-Man unique from the beginning is the fact that Spider-Man isn't the only focus. Peter Parker is. The whole idea of a teenager having to deal with regular everyday things while also being a superhero is what attracted people to him in the first place.

Sam Raimi actually said something about Spider-Man 2 that was along the lines of "Unlike a lot of other Superhero films, this film is focused on the man behind the mask rather than the superhero". Which describes the film and the comics rather well. While there should be a lot of Spidey action, there should always be a focus on Peter Parker. I just got Volumes 3 and 4 of Ultimate Spider-Man and in volume 3, Spidey keeps trying to help but ends up getting his ass kicked and blamed, Kong realizes that Pete's Spider-man and tries to prove it but fails, Mary Jane starts to get jealous of Gwen and Peter has to hide his bruises from Aunt May. All the while he has to deal with Kraven the hunter hunting him and Doc Ock looking to kill Justin Hammer. The comic does a really good job of dividing the mundane and the extraordinary. I was as interested in Peter's like as I was Spider-Man's.

At the end of the issue, Spidey defeats Kraven the Hunter and Doc Ock, talks to an interviewer on live TV and everyone is praising him. He gets home at three o'clock and Aunt May is waiting for him. Pete tries to lie but Aunt May knows that he is lying, they argue and he gets grounded. So on one hand, it's happy in that Spidey is seen more of as a hero, yet he and his aunt are at odds because his Superhero work is getting in the way of his curfew and he can't tell her that.

Thankfully, the new film seems to be very much centered on Peter and it should be. I like the fact that they're focusing on his parent's death, him being bullied, his friendship with Curt, the differences of the way he acts as Spider-Man and Peter Parker, his relationship with Gwen and his somewhat rivalry with Captain Stacy. While also focusing on the Spidey stuff.

On the topic of Spider-Man 3, i hope Sony doesnt do to Webb, what they did to Raimi by forcing villains and ideas on him.

[Jacky]

I pretty much agree with these bros, up a dere^, PB&J and Dissy D.

SM2 is definitely on my list of favorite tight men in spandex saving the world motion picture list, for pretty much the reasons they listed honestly, the way Raimi bulit character relationships was fantastic, I'll return back to that subject later in this clusterfuck of a essay, keep reading. I honestly enjoyed SM3, I'd say it has the best action out of the trilogy, I'll admit, because outside of the Spectacular train scene in SM2, most of the action scenes haven't been Amazing, just good, but dat 2 on 2 final battle in 3 was sick, and we get the most Spidey-like sequences in it, such as that freefall battle. The meat of the movie however, is kind of a mess, I honestly never cared for Venom much, other than his design, so I didn't particularly feel he was ruined, but the entire film just feels overstuffed with shit, just bloated and could have used some cleaning up. MJ WAS honestly a whiny bitch in this movie, and Gwen was just, there, she added really nothing at all in the movie. The Sandman plot seemed like a asspull just to connect him to Peter, like Joker in the original Batman movie, didn't really care for it. Great action movie, poor story choices.

On the subject of the Marvel universe films, i'd like to say they convey just as much inner conflict and emotion altogether, moreso than SM2. Take Cap'n Murrikka, what i really enjoyed was the fact that Steve is already a good guy from the get go, even if he weighed 30 pounds, he was willing and ready to fight dem Nazis. T

he thing I like most of all was that quote "Because a weak man knows the value of strength." The reason he's so compassionate and determined to help the weak and powerless is because he was weak and powerless himself. I think the "man out of time" thing is so prominent in Cap lore, that i, and most people, I guess, kind of forget about the ramifications of his origin. Same for Irod Bad, Stark comes to the realization he is indirectly responsible for the chaos that terrorist group is causing, that scene where he watches documentary footage of them is honestly perfect, it shows pure emotion without a single word as he breaks shit in his lab with his repulsers out of rage. There's the whole "Demon in a Bottle" saga, from the comics, the battle with alcoholic, is probably the most relevant and integral inner conflict to Stark, if IM3 would have the balls to portray this pretty dark subject, then that would be cool honestly. Until then it's a cute little joke in the second movie. The above examples generally seem very compatible to Peter's life in the Raimi films, the trauma of not being able to stop his uncle's killer, or having to juggle the woman he cares about, and the vow he made to use his great powers to fulfill a great responsibility, to briefly try and give up that

responsibility, and come to a realization he can never quit being the Spider-Man, yadda yadda etc.

However, I'd like to think the Raimi films were able to flesh out and develop most of the side characters/villains, and their conflicts, something the Marvel films I'll admit haven't really strived to do yet. Dissy nailed it, Norman's losing grip on reality, Ock's tragic tale, Harry's hatred of Spidey, even Sandman's story was pretty emotional, the films did honestly make you feel invested in these villains. Loki's the only real villain with actual living depth so far, no offense to the others, they were great, but they're generally card-carrying classic villains, makes sense in this almost perfect adaption of the good ol fashioned Marvel comics.

That's one of the particular things I like about ASM so far, it continues having some well-developed villains, Doc Conner's personal relationship to Peter's parents seems very intriguing, and doesn't seem as forced as "No Peter, Sandy WAS THE REAL UNCLE BEN KILLER" and I honestly wanna see the friction it'll cause, what with him running around as giant reptile at night.

holy shit, you don't have to read all of that, seriously, guys, this thing's a fucking essay. save yourselvessss

[lounge]

No matter how many times I try to watch SM2 to see if my opinion of it will change, I end up turning it off. I swear I want to like it, but the way the movie goes scene by scene I just get so bored. Nothing interesting happens. You guys are saying MJ was really annoying in SM3, but in 2, I felt the whole film was basically about her and how peter is always dissapointing her. I couldn't stand her. In SM3 when he becomes goth, he actually hurts her feelings and gets a kick out of it which I loved.

I'm going to compare Batman Begins to SM2 again, because in Begins you do see the life of Bruce and his internal struggles. Who he is. In SM2 you see how Peter struggles to be spidey and normal. But the way they pull off Bruces life in Begins is entertaining and interesting to me. The way they showed Peter's life in SM2 was just so boring to me. Nothing interesting happened. I didn't care about his problems cause I truly found the acting terrible. Every time Peter made that gasping expression when he talked to MJ or when he would get in trouble, I just can't stand that. Any time someone screams, it made me want to turn the movie off. That scene where Doc Ocks wife screams as she's about get cut with the shard. Cheesiest moment I've ever seen in my life. And a majority of the characters in SM2 just steal the show. Not only that, they're extremely unlikable. It took forever for any scenes with Spidey. He's barely in the movie. I'd expect that with the 1st movie, not the 2nd. To this day I will never understand why the movie has a 94% critique rating. It's one thing for a movie to be depressing, but it's another when it's not interesting to watch. I really would like to know if your opinion on SM2 has changed. If you have the movie on dvd or something can you watch it again? Do you still stand by your views on it? I'm in the minority but I just want to know if you still think the movie is enjoyable.

Ironically the scenes with Peter in the 1st movie I actually like. There's a charm in that portion of the movie where he's a nerd and first becoming spiderman. It's interesting. Then when he becomes Spiderman I felt the movie kind of dragged down. Felt like they didn't use spidey to his potential. And again too much focus on annoying extras, and not enough wise cracks.Some cheesy scenes, not as much as 2, but to this day still bother me.

[Sami]

I really would like to know if your opinion on SM2 has changed. If you have the movie on dvd or something can you watch it again? Do you still stand by your views on it? I'm in the minority but I just want to know if you still think the movie is enjoyable.

[Winston]

I just hope in this new film series, Venom doesn't die after twenty minutes, if he even appears at all.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ultimate Freddie-Man

[turbojet]

I fucking hated Spider-man 2 and 3. Everything just got too pitiful too quickly.I could go on about the flaws of these two movies for ages, but I will just stick to one. The interpretation of Mary Jane Watson. First, let's explore the character of Mary Jane.

1.) The coolest popular girl ever(second to Pelly)

The thing that I hated about Raimi's films is that she was not "the typical beautiful girl that every guy wanted and was so reserved for football players" shit you see in romantic comedies. Weisman's Spectacular Spider-man had it correct. She was beyond the "In" crowd. She didn't just hang with the jocks and cheerleaders(she was an actor and therefore a natural thespian), she willingly inserted herself in the click of nerds like Peter and Gwen. She may have dated Flash Thompson, but she was not to be heralded as a trophy. She partied(for underlying dark reasons), and she did not let any social click define who the fuck Mary Jane was apart of. She never was part of the crowd(the lingo and slang she used was completely distinguishable from the rest of the characters) and did her best to set herself apart from people. She wasn't how Kristen Dunst portrayed. Mary Jane was not Mary Plain.

2.) She was never jealous of Peter's success as Spider-man whenever he received it.

This one pissed me the fuck off. Goddammit, I nearly left the movie theater when this scene happened in Spider-man 3. Your boyfriend is loved because he is a fucking hero and you are jealous because of the press isn't focused on you? Bitch. No. She steadfastly(One More Day never happened in my eyes) devoted to Peter's success as Spider-man. Although she wished that he would stop being Spider-man so damn much, she would have never held it against him for it.

3.) Mary Jane was fun. Not a token romance device.

What was so special about Raimi's Mary Jane personality wise? Nothing much, right. That isn't right. Raimi's Spider-man was a token damsel in distress. Mary Jane is the fiery red head who parties as well as sass her captors. Mary Jane was as her name implies. She had the charm to lift you to the clouds. Spider-man and Mary Jane have been married for over 25 years(One More Day never happened and this is just a horrible time in the comics). That would have never worked if Mary Jane was just a beautiful girl Peter Parker was boiking. The writers did something media hasn't ever done correctly. They made marriage fun. There was no need for cheating. There was no need for petty arguments. Just a couple being a couple with an extra dose of "Holy shit, it's Spider-man." In order for them to do that, MJ had to have a completely distinct personality that the audience could identify her as.

And finally....

4.) Mary Jane's love for Peter was beyond him being Spider-man

Most mainstream fans don't know this, but she always knew that Peter Parker was Spider-man. Of course, she fucking known, she literally lives next door. The moment uncle Ben was killed, she saw him on his roof crying. She watched him as he snuck in and out the house as Spider-man. This was before she formally met Peter Parker. Before she known, she admired Spider-man because he thought he was a true free spirit. He seemed to be having the time of his life and didn't have a care in the world. Something she envied. See, Mary Jane had a rough life. Her dad was a struggling writer who regularly abused her and her sister because his literary works were not up to par and thought they were holding him back. The family moved from city to city on a whim so MJ never could establish a solid base of friends or a core unit of support other than her mom, who was too busying acquiescing her Jack-ass dad. Daddy bailed and she moved in with her Aunt Anna Watson who was next door to that batty old lady May and her husband, Ben. She only wanted to party so damn much because she wanted to escape the hell that was her life. She put on this mask, just like Spider-man, of a party girl and played the role well.

Did you get any of that outside the typical bullshit in the Raimi films about her character? No subliminal bullshit was shown outside daddy being a dick. It was a shitty representation of her and the entire relationship. I honestly could not take it seriously. Look, it wasn't about whether Dunst was beautiful enough to play MJ or whether if she could fill in the bra. It was about the writing for her character that turned me off and that had something to do with Raimi.

Edited April 13, 2012 by turbojet

[Sami]

That's one of the biggest reason that despite how much I love Spider-Man 2, I would never consider it a Spider-Man film.

I wasn't watching Mary Jane and Spider-Man, I was watching Kirsten Dunst and Tobey Maguire.

[Sami]

Sorry for the double post, just thought I could post my thoughts on the first one since the thread died down for a whole day:

Holy shit, this movie is hilarious. It's incredibly bad when I actually try to take it seriously, but watching this movie with a friend (pppp, in this case) is a freaking blast. It's almost like a 60's cartoon; so incredibly corny, yet so fun to watch as a result. My verdict for Spider-Man 1 is the same as I expected: Really stupid, but a lot of fun to watch. Everything else is basically just what I've been saying earlier in this thread: Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man, Mary Jane isn't Mary Jane, etc.

Oh, and the Green Goblin was comedic gold. I was laughing my ass off every time he was on screen. XD

Edit/Update:

Watched Spider-Man 2.1 (the Director's Cut). ... Wow. That was fucking awful. The extra scenes were boring as shit, and Mary Jane was an awful, loathsome bitch. I hate her. Not just because she's different, but because she's nothing more than a dumb slut in these movies:

"Hey Harry, your dad just died? Oh, you need me for love and support? Tough shit, I'm hot for Petey now."

"Too late Petey, you turned me down. I like this new guy now. Getting married. Sucks to suck, Pete."

"Wedding day? Possibly the biggest day of anyone's life? Guess I'll just not show up and leave John hanging without saying anything to him at all! I LOVE YOU PETEY WETEY!"

"WHY DOES SPIDER-MAN GET MORE ATTENTION THAN ME!? IT'S ALMOST LIKE I'M NOT AS IMPORTANT AS A SUPERHERO OR SOMETHING!"

Just... ugh. Fuck her. And fuck Raimi for turning a great character into an absolutely miserable human being.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Dissident

[Sami]

Jesus Christ, triple post. I edited in my thoughts on Spider-Man 2.1 above, in case anyone missed that. I didn't want to triple post, but this one is necessary.

New trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2KTsRnp_U

[Match]

Jesus Christ, triple post. I edited in my thoughts on Spider-Man 2.1 above, in case anyone missed that. I didn't want to triple post, but this one is necessary.

New trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2KTsRnp_U

Edited April 15, 2012 by A Match in Oil Ocean Zone

[Mono]

Terrible trailer. Excitement on movie declines .

[Sami]

Let's see what this "shitty" trailer shows us:

• Peter knows he's being lied to in regards to his parents, and wants to know what really happened to them.
  
• The issue with Peter's parents has been a major source of confusion and stress in his life.
  
• Once he gets his powers, he uses them to fight back against a bully at school (probably going to reflect the first Raimi movie)
  
• Dr. Conners and Peter's father worked together on a really big project.
  
• Dr. Conners is clearly getting ahead of himself here, and is willing to pull out all the stops to get his project completed; "Ready to play God?"
  
• Peter feels that he's responsible for the creation of the Lizard, and the fate of Dr. Conners.
  
• His secret identity puts a lot of strain on the relationship between Peter and Aunt May (something the Raimi films skipped entirely).
  
• Gwen knows his secret identity and is doing everything she can to help him; even though her father loathes Spider-Man.
  
• Capturing Spider-Man is a big priority for the police, and Peter's going to have to fight SWAT teams completely on his own; something that was so quickly glossed over in the first Raimi movie ("I'm going to arrest you when you come back." "I'm not coming back, Chief." "k. Later.")
  
• Conners himself is keeping secrets from Peter.
  

Hm. Forgive me if I'm coming off as biased toward the movie here, but I'm not seeing how it's "shitty" at all. It's still looking to be better than all of Raimi's films.

[Celestia]

It just wouldn't be Spider-Man if he wasn't responsible in some way, shape, or form for his supervillains being, well, supervillains. Of course, it's not entirely his fault, but knowing Peter Parker from most of his incarnations, he's going to blame himself completely.

But yeah, I liked this trailer a lot. It tells me more about the movie than the last trailer, anyway, and it's looking good to me.

I wonder, when and how does Gwen find out about his secret? Maybe he goes to her while he's injured or something? That's what I get from the trailer, anyway.

[Match]

I meant that the trailer had shitty editing and inappropriate music.

Edited April 15, 2012 by A Match in Oil Ocean Zone

[Sami]

Thanks for the speech Dissident, but I meant that the trailer had shitty editing and inappropriate music.

Then you could have clarified instead of getting your titties in a bunch when I misunderstood an incredibly vague statement.

[Match]

Then you could have clarified instead of getting your titties in a bunch when I misunderstood an incredibly vague statement.

[lounge]

Watched Spider-Man 2.1 (the Director's Cut). ... Wow. That was fucking awful.

[Kuzu]

Ya know, I've been checking out this topic, but never posted.

Anywho, truth be told the Raimi films are more action orientated than anything else in similar veins to Iron Man, and The Incredible Hulk so the story kind of suffers from it, they're not bad just kind of miss the point of Spider Man, that he's not just an action hero, but a person that his double life is creating problems for his normal one, they tried to incorporate some of that into the trilogy, but it just felt unnatural, espeially in regards to Turbo's post about the characters.

[Sami]

So your opinion has changed. So it's not just me that thinks the movie is overrated, and doesn't deserve to be called one of the best superhero movies ever with an over 90% critique rating.

[turbojet]

It looks like they just put together the first trailer and the second trailer, added a few scenes, and said that's all folks. Lazy fucks. Putting everything in the Avenger movie.

Edit/Update:

Watched Spider-Man 2.1 (the Director's Cut). ... Wow. That was fucking awful. The extra scenes were boring as shit, and Mary Jane was an awful, loathsome bitch. I hate her. Not just because she's different, but because she's nothing more than a dumb slut in these movies:

"Hey Harry, your dad just died? Oh, you need me for love and support? Tough shit, I'm hot for Petey now."

"Too late Petey, you turned me down. I like this new guy now. Getting married. Sucks to suck, Pete."

"Wedding day? Possibly the biggest day of anyone's life? Guess I'll just not show up and leave John hanging without saying anything to him at all! I LOVE YOU PETEY WETEY!"

"WHY DOES SPIDER-MAN GET MORE ATTENTION THAN ME!? IT'S ALMOST LIKE I'M NOT AS IMPORTANT AS A SUPERHERO OR SOMETHING!"

Just... ugh. Fuck her. And fuck Raimi for turning a great character into an absolutely miserable human being.

Oh God, the memories...

MJ's character could be redefined in this next installment. If there is one scene that needs to be done, it is the day after Gwen Stacey died in the most realistically yet horrible fashion ever(Physics is a bitch). Mary Jane goes to Peter and...

This is why there is no Spider-man without Mary Jane. Why people raged when they ended the relationship. Why she is without a doubt the most popular superhero character that isn't even a superhero. It has been said about Peter's three main relationships have taught him. Gwen Stacey was his first love. Black Cat taught him how to fuck be passionate. Mary Jane was the devoted one.

Edited April 16, 2012 by turbojet

[Winston]

Black Cat taught him how to fuck be passionate.

Now, that's a character I want to see. Raimi was origially going to include her (Well, NOT her.) in Spider-Man 4, but instead of being the Black Cat, she would have been the Vulture's daughter, and having a new name, "The Vulturess". Which, I thought sounded pretty shitty, I would've rather seen the original Black Sex Cat. So I really do want to see her make an appearence in this new film franchise.

Also, don't kill every villian off every single movie.

[Sami]

Black Cat's character is so rarely portrayed as anything more than blatant sex appeal that I'd rather they just skip her entirely, to be honest. Spectacular handled her very well, but I think that may have had something to do with her appearance; she was attractive, yeah, but not to the point that it takes attention away from the character she presents. Compare that interpretation to, say, Spider-Man 2 (game), Web of Shadows, or Edge of Time. She's nothing more than a pair of tits in those games, and I believe the reason why is because they had the ability to make her exactly that. Spectacular's art style prevents them from doing so without it being incredibly jarring (and probably uncanny), so they didn't do that.

tl;dr - The worst possible thing that could happen is Pair Of Tits as Black Cat. As long as that isn't a possibility, then sure. If it is, then keep her the hell away.

[Sami]

Am I going to become the news guy on here? :v

Two new posters:

Call me JJ, kids.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dissident