The Knuckles Topic - Is monkey a Knuckles-butt?

[Uraraka]

Why does it have to be played exactly the same every time he shows up?

 Yeah, I agree. Knuckles and Sonic should have a rivalry that continues, but It also isn't the only part of his personality. He needs to have that inferiority complex, or he isn't knuckles. he also has to puff himself up sometimes... but at the same time, he also cares a lot, and sometimes I see him as being a sensitive person. That is why I think he gets defensive in the first place .

[Kuzu]

It's still the same basic thing. It wouldn't be any more interesting than him being fooled by Eggman every time he shows up.

 

I thought the point was for Knuckles to be interesting. Not just LOOK cool. Him looking like a badass all the time isn't actually more interesting than him being a bit of a goofball. I'd actually argue that it's less interesting. 

 

I don't ever remember saying that's all the character should do now did I? No shit I want him to be interesting I don't why you thought I didn't, but I also want him to have his moments too hence why I made an outline of what his entrances should be. For one it establishes his desire to look cool in front of others and show up Sonic.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Wraith]

I don't ever remember saying that's all the character should do now did I? No shit I want him to be interesting I don't why you thought I didn't, but I also want him to have his moments too hence why I made an outline of what his entrances should be. For one it establishes his desire to look cool in front of others and show up Sonic.

 

 

Wouldn't his role varying from game to game be better? 

[Kuzu]

Wouldn't his role varying from game to game be better? 

 

I never said it wouldn't...

[StaticMania]

Ya know, that Sonic and Knuckles rivalry is what makes me like Knuckles more and more! BRING BACK THE RIVALS!!

Knuckles sees himself as Sonic's rival, they aren't really that though. He just wants to prove that he's better, get the one up on him. They are more on good terms now, so the rivalry thing is really one-sided.

[Uraraka]

Knuckles sees himself as Sonic's rival, they aren't really that though. He just wants to prove that he's better, get the one up on him. They are more on good terms now, so the rivalry thing is really one-sided.

  I always kinda saw it that way too. Knuckles apparently thinks Sonic is out to get him (like how he saw Sonic in SA). I always thought Knuckles had more of a problem with Sonic than Sonic had with Knuckles. However, I do think Sonic gets annoyed with Knuckles as well (like his opinion of him in Secret Rings and Black Knight), but he isn't as aggressive, he just tolerates Knuckles better than Knuckles tolerates him!

   And to post one of my favorite rival pictures:

[Kuzu]

Knuckles sees Sonic as his greatest rival and why he tries to one up him all of the time, Sonic meanwhile more than likely just sees Knuckles as someone to mess around with due to his temper.

[Zaysho]

I kinda skimmed the topic, so I get the gist of the current conversation, but I had some thoughts on Knuckles I wanted to chip in.

 

My thing with Knuckles these days is that he suffers from the same problem every other character that was introduced after 1992 suffers from: SEGA has no idea what to do with these characters and are under the impression that the fans aren't interested in them. Really, it's just a vocal minority chanting about Sonic's "shitty friends," but those are (strangely) the voices reaching SEGA--probably because the mindset finds its ways into "professional" reviews where the goal is to constantly bemoan how Sonic has sucked since blahblahblah. What happens is that he becomes reduced to token appearances with his personality taking a backseat for the sake of humor. He's devolved into a self-important dumbass who just HAS to prove how much better he is than Sonic, only for it to blow up in his face. What is this? A Spy vs. Spy strip?

 

We go from the Adventure games where he is a loner, serious, and extremely naive because he lived his whole life isolated that even Eggman can trick him more than once (provided Eggman can convince him the Master Emerald is in danger, that is) to, say, Sonic Heroes or Battle where we start to his character become that guy who just has to show Sonic up at every turn, only to be made the butt of every joke. Don't get me wrong, I like him having a rivalry with Sonic, even if it is somewhat one-sided (I consider Sonic and Shadow to be more on equal grounds and some games seem to show this). What I don't like is that suddenly becomes his only defining characteristic, and he starts to look petty and stupid because we never get to SEE what all the bragging is about. It's just bragging. We've seen what Sonic can do, we've seen what Shadow or even Jet can do. Knuckles is made to look like he just talks a big game and is constantly put down by Sonic or otherwise ignored by the rest of the cast. Adventure at least SHOWED us what Knuckles is all about, and that he is a perfectly capable character, and he was more concerned with the big looming threat of Chaos, not "How can I make Sonic look like a chump?" Battle managed to show a bit of both sides, but he still became a butt monkey more than anything (I should probably point out I haven't played through all of Battle, but I have played through Knuckles's story).

 

One of the recent cutscenes leaked for Lost World doesn't seem like it's going to improve anything for Knuckles, since he's bragging about how he'd have saved all the animals while Sonic just saved the first batch. Of course, it's too early to call--maybe Knux will get his "Big Damn Hero" moment after all this time. Or maybe he'll still fall flat on his face and everyone will have a laugh. Who knows?

 

What I want, more than anything, with Knuckles is for the badass decay to stop and for him to be a well-rounded character again (and, really, I want this for everyone). It's fine if he and Sonic are still "Fighting Buddies" and that Sonic pushes Knuckles's buttons. Knuckles can make himself an easy target while still maintaining some sense of authority. I think current writers are mistaking naivety for plain stupid. Actually, even if it wasn't the real Knuckles, the two Storybook avatars of him seemed to hit the right notes. He's trusting and duty-bound, but something about Sonic rubs him the wrong way, and in the end, he'll (begrudgingly) side with Sonic because he believes in the greater good rather than accepting his fate. If SEGA wants to continue cleaning up the reputation of the Sonic brand, then making the supporting cast likeable and not reduced to dumb hangers on is just as important as making their boy look good.

 

...I hope I didn't derail things too much.

[Uraraka]

the problem isn't Knuckles... It is over opinionated people!

   Truth is , many people who have " opinions " about Sonic games are not even Sonic fans themselves. They are gamers who enjoy different  kinds of games. No shame in that, but honestly if you don't like the games to begin with, of course you will find fault with them! 

Knuckles the Echidna was a well rounded character. He was steadfast in his devotion to his duty, but he was also naive. He was loyal and honest but failed to realize that not everyone is as honest as he would like to believe. He was introverted and tough. He was not only good at building traps , but he was clever ! No , he lacked street smarts. He was not brilliant in terms of college education, but he was strategic to some degree. 

   He had no clue why he did what he did, but he was honorable enough to keep his watch on angel island alone instead of chilling with friends all the time. Even though he wished to see the world he chose to stay and keep gaurd. He can leave if he wants, but he forwent his desires and hopes to do what was right. He was amazing. 

     Not only that, but he was also kind. He was known by a nickname by the animals on the isle. He was respected. Then one day Eggman came. What reason did knuckles have to think he would be lying? So he fell for his deception. Sonic shows up, and caused Knuckles to have to run all over the island trying to keep Sonic from the emerald! Running to the point where he was literally too tired to fight Eggman at the end . He saw sonic as a rival ever since, somehow convinced himself that sonic is out to be better than him and left him feeling insecure.  So somehow, within a short time, knuckles no longer felt honor, but inferiority.  He felt jealousy , and desire for things beyond what he had or knew . It was his first time feeling this way. He had not met anyone before. At least to his memory. Now that he saw what other people can do he felt unaccomplished. And maybe he started to realize how lonely he actually felt. 

    This is just a short description of his complex character. He has so much to offer if people would stop assuming he is an idiot. 

  (I am sure if knuckles was real, though, and he saw how he was portrayed, he would blame Sonic, guaranteed!  ) 

  The outcry of true knuckles fans asks for redemption of his character, but somehow Sega resorts to pleasing internet trolls and making Knuckles stupid  . 

  

[AtomicPencils]

On 10/8/2013 at 1:12 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Knuckles sees Sonic as his greatest rival and why he tries to one up him all of the time, Sonic meanwhile more than likely just sees Knuckles as someone to mess around with due to his temper.

I dunno, it couldn't be that simple. He more seemed bugged by Sonic's behavior.

On 10/9/2013 at 3:11 PM, Zaysho said:

He's trusting and duty-bound, but something about Sonic rubs him the wrong way, and in the end, he'll (begrudgingly) side with Sonic because he believes in the greater good rather than accepting his fate.

Yes, this right here. As the M.E.'s guardian, we can already tell he's responsible, dependable, and can keep himself level-headed in a bad situation. Sonic is none of these things. He lives by mercurial whims and doesn't think ahead very often, which the down-to-earth guardian sees as dangerous at worst. Knuckles probably doesn't know how to express his concerns, so he operates on "punch first, ask later".

And since Sonic seldom shows any care for his recklessness, Knuckles has bigger reason to be annoyed even more. They were built to clash with eachother. I kind of miss seeing that.

[blade57331]

7 hours ago, Knucklesgirl said:

 He saw sonic as a rival ever since, somehow convinced himself that sonic is out to be better than him and left him feeling insecure.  So somehow, within a short time, knuckles no longer felt honor, but inferiority.  He felt jealousy , and desire for things beyond what he had or knew . It was his first time feeling this way. He had not met anyone before. At least to his memory. Now that he saw what other people can do he felt unaccomplished. And maybe he started to realize how lonely he actually felt. 

    This is just a short description of his complex character. He has so much to offer if people would stop assuming he is an idiot. 

  (I am sure if knuckles was real, though, and he saw how he was portrayed, he would blame Sonic, guaranteed!  ) 

  The outcry of true knuckles fans asks for redemption of his character, but somehow Sega resorts to pleasing internet trolls and making Knuckles stupid  . 

  

That's a lot of assumptions there. Inferiority complex is something that fans like to imagine he have. When really, this never was the case in games.

Edit: Well, except Sonic Boom maybe.

[Kiah]

How dare you talk about @Monkey Destruction Switch like that calling her a "Knuckles-butt"! You should be ashamed of yourself! 

I'm just kidding . It's interesting that this topic came about way before Sonic Boom came along as I honestly never really thought that way of Knuckles until then and I actually like Boom Knuckles. Anyway, reading the OP, this is general topic about Knuckles so I'm going to talk about Knuckles because I want to .

It's a real shame to see how far he has fallen from relevance to the Sonic series. It really hurts me to see Knuckles go from iconic Classic character to the modern-day joke of the series.

I admit I didn't like Knuckles at first. When I first saw him back in 1994 at 10 years old in Sonic 3 when he punched Super Sonic, knocked the chaos emeralds away from him and took them with that big stupid grin on his face in the opening cutscene of the game, I thought Knuckles was a real jerk. That's probably why it took me a LONG time-16 years-to finally see him as an echidna as opposed to an enchilada. I admit that I wasn't interested in getting his species right due to lack of interest in the character as I didn't like him back then.

I definitely wasn't feeling Knuckles at first. Thankfully my opinion of him has changed for the better .

Slowly but surely, I started warming up to Knuckles in Sonic & Knuckles, and I had a blast playing with him with his different skills that he had compared to Sonic such as wall-climbing and gliding. The cartoons helped a bit too which I didn't see until many years later. Knuckles was awesome in the OVA, the only character that was tolerable in Sonic Underground, and I actually liked him in Sonic X aside from him being hot-headed. Some 20 years later I can say that my initial negative perception of Knuckles is no longer the case, and in fact, Knuckles is right up here among my favorite Sonic characters now .

Of all of the Sonic characters being reduced to chatty cheerleaders, seeing Knuckles among that crowd hurts me the most. Especially when time and time again he is portrayed as incompetent and idiotic, temperamental as well as helpless. Sonic Boom aside, I miss Knuckles being right along Sonic and Tails as Team Sonic in the games. I may not be all that fond of Sonic Heroes, but at least that game as well as the Sonic Riders games gave us Sonic, Tails and Knuckles working together as friends and as a team:

I really miss seeing these 3 working together. I would love to see Team Sonic playable again in the main series games but for now I am beyond hyped knowing that they all will be playable in Sonic Mania .

Going back to Boom Knuckles for a second, I actually like Knux there in the cartoon. His idiotic moments (which I do think should be toned down) have some charm to them as well as some humor in my opinion. Knuckles in Boom has had his bright moments although they are few and far between. And I love how playful he is while hanging out with Team Sonic doing things from dancing in court rooms to jumping out of cakes as well as the loyalty he shows to his friends.

But despite that...THIS is the best incarnation of Knuckles:

It's the hat. All about the hat as it is awesome .

Although I wish Knuckles was a playable character again and not portrayed as an idiot, I'm thankful that Knuckles is still around. Sonic Mania aside, he has made appearances in recent Sonic games and is a playable character in the Spin-off games and while this isn't ideal, it's better than us not having Knuckles at all, as this has been the unfortunate fate of some characters in the Sonic series sadly. Here's to hoping Knuckles will be treated in a decent manner at the very least, if not better from now on. Hopefully Sonic Mania won't be a one-time thing on the matter as I'm really looking forward to playing as him there as it has been a long time coming bar the exceptions. I can't wait!

[Uraraka]

2 hours ago, Kiah said:

How dare you talk about @Monkey Destruction Switch like that calling her a "Knuckles-butt"! You should be ashamed of yourself! 

I'm just kidding . It's interesting that this topic came about way before Sonic Boom came along as I honestly never really thought that way of Knuckles until then and I actually like Boom Knuckles. Anyway, reading the OP, this is general topic about Knuckles so I'm going to talk about Knuckles because I want to .

It's a real shame to see how far he has fallen from relevance to the Sonic series. It really hurts me to see Knuckles go from iconic Classic character to the modern-day joke of the series.

I admit I didn't like Knuckles at first. When I first saw him back in 1994 at 10 years old in Sonic 3 when he punched Super Sonic, knocked the chaos emeralds away from him and took them with that big stupid grin on his face in the opening cutscene of the game, I thought Knuckles was a real jerk. That's probably why it took me a LONG time-16 years-to finally see him as an echidna as opposed to an enchilada. I admit that I wasn't interested in getting his species right due to lack of interest in the character as I didn't like him back then.

I definitely wasn't feeling Knuckles at first. Thankfully my opinion of him has changed for the better .

Slowly but surely, I started warming up to Knuckles in Sonic & Knuckles, and I had a blast playing with him with his different skills that he had compared to Sonic such as wall-climbing and gliding. The cartoons helped a bit too which I didn't see until many years later. Knuckles was awesome in the OVA, the only character that was tolerable in Sonic Underground, and I actually liked him in Sonic X aside from him being hot-headed. Some 20 years later I can say that my initial negative perception of Knuckles is no longer the case, and in fact, Knuckles is right up here among my favorite Sonic characters now .

Of all of the Sonic characters being reduced to chatty cheerleaders, seeing Knuckles among that crowd hurts me the most. Especially when time and time again he is portrayed as incompetent and idiotic, temperamental as well as helpless. Sonic Boom aside, I miss Knuckles being right along Sonic and Tails as Team Sonic in the games. I may not be all that fond of Sonic Heroes, but at least that game as well as the Sonic Riders games gave us Sonic, Tails and Knuckles working together as friends and as a team:

I really miss seeing these 3 working together. I would love to see Team Sonic playable again in the main series games but for now I am beyond hyped knowing that they all will be playable in Sonic Mania .

Going back to Boom Knuckles for a second, I actually like Knux there in the cartoon. His idiotic moments (which I do think should be toned down) have some charm to them as well as some humor in my opinion. Knuckles in Boom has had his bright moments although they are few and far between. And I love how playful he is while hanging out with Team Sonic doing things from dancing in court rooms to jumping out of cakes as well as the loyalty he shows to his friends.

But despite that...THIS is the best incarnation of Knuckles:

It's the hat. All about the hat as it is awesome .

Although I wish Knuckles was a playable character again and not portrayed as an idiot, I'm thankful that Knuckles is still around. Sonic Mania aside, he has made appearances in recent Sonic games and is a playable character in the Spin-off games and while this isn't ideal, it's better than us not having Knuckles at all, as this has been the unfortunate fate of some characters in the Sonic series sadly. Here's to hoping Knuckles will be treated in a decent manner at the very least, if not better from now on. Hopefully Sonic Mania won't be a one-time thing on the matter as I'm really looking forward to playing as him there as it has been a long time coming bar the exceptions. I can't wait!

  Sorry I am on my phone so snipping the original post is hard! 

 

  I love what you said about how you used to view him as an enchilada XD !  Yeah , he did appear to be a jerk from the get go. It was certainly an interesting way to introduce a new hero: by pummeling the main hero to the ground and knocking his super saiyaness right out of him! He certainly was a character that took time to warm up to, funny to say that in game it probably took sonic and tails a while to warm up to him too. ( a good deal of the in game characters have not to this day. ) 

   I agree too about the sonic the movie Knuckles . He was so awesome! When I go on the hang glider rides I always pretend to be that knuckles that was " goofing around" lol!  Personally I always thought knuckles would have a playful side , as he did in the original games. It would add an interesting dynamic to his character. 

   Can I add that in the boom universe I love knuckles too, but I want that knuckles to stay in the boom universe XD. I actually came to love the sonic boom show and think it is hillarious. I do think a bit of playfulness for Knuckles' personality would do him good . But just  a little. I somehow think he would love playing pranks on people when he was bored XD . 

     I love that hat too!   He looks so awesome!!  Honestly, considering knuckles' personality and outdoorsy cowboy like behavior I just can't imagine him loving rap music, despite his songs being kinda cool. I just feel that a country rock style would suit his character better , but that is a little off topic  .

    I can't even begin to say how excited I am to play sonic mania!!!!!   I really can't wait  . Knuckles Tails and Sonic will be awesome and I am super glad it was not a Sonic Generations 2  . 

  Call me crazy, but I actually loved playing the emerald search levels in SA and SA2. Not only did I get to play as the my favorite and cutest ( in my opinion, despite his protesting ) 

 Character ,  I actually enjoyed searching for the emeralds. Sonic's levels were hard for me because I always ended up zooming right off the levels . In Knuckles' levels though I could take it slow  . That is the way he likes it though. Unlike Sonic Knuckles actually likes taking it the slow way  . 

      

    

 

[FriendBot]

Looks like I'll be in the minority and say that Knuckles in the main series never really interested me, I just couldn't find anything I could like about him. Ok, not entirely true.

In 3&K, I like how he's always constantly screwing over Sonic & Tails through out the game and laughs at them. It's annoying, yes but I kind of like that.  (I'm weird, ok)

And in that game, I didn't mind that Knuckles was tricked by Eggman. After all, he lived his entire life in Angel Island and probably has never met another person/anthro ever in his life, especially since he might've seen that mural in Hidden Palace and has no idea what it means. So it's all understandable with Knuckles' gullibility in 3&K.

What really killed it for me was that SEGA continue to pull that card in other games like in Triple Trouble (I think?), Adventure, Advance 2 and so on. Like at that point, it just put Knuckles in a bad light for me. Yeah, people might say Knuckles in the recent games had been bastardized but by the time Advance 2 pulled the same "lol Knuckles got tricked by Eggman again" card again, that was when Knuckles was really bastardized.

Ok, I probably wouldn't mind it that much if Knuckles got a entertaining personality.... which to be brutally honest, he doesn't. Like in the Adventures, he's always focused on getting the Master Emerald back together, which is important no doubt. But I'm sure either Akinori Nishiyama (writer for SA1) or Shiro Maekawa (writer for SA2) could give Knuckles something fun to do or show off Knux having fun doing the stuff he does in the story but all Knuckles ever does is just get the Master Emerald put together. I guess some people don't mind if Knuckles was only focused in his duties without any time to have fun and stuff but that's kind of Shadow's thing. Shadow should be the "no time to play around, always focused on the task at hand" kind of guy; not Knuckles IMO.

Also SA1 kinda gave some insight into the history of Knuckles' clan and it would be really interesting to see a game where Knuckles goes to a journey to discover more about his ancestors and all that neat stuff but at the end, Knuckles didn't care even though at the beginning; he doesn't even know why he was given the role to protect the ME besides "no one else will so it might as well be me". That never really bode well with me, it just came off as a lazy and dumb excuse.

And Knuckles never really did anything interesting afterwards, either he was the dumb muscle in games like 06 or he was just there like in Rush. Though I'm actually going to give Lost World some credit here, based on the only 2 lines Knuckles said in that game; Pontac and Graff brought back the rival inside of Knuckles. That would've made him a much more interesting character. Like sure, he's bros with Sonic but sometimes he wants to gloat around with the guy too.

I don't know, whenever i want to see how Knuckles should be like in the games; the Archie comics nowadays is how I really want him to be. Current Archie Knuckles is focused in his duties but he actually talks to people and interacts with them. He jokes around with Sonic, he's bitter at Shadow at times, he finds Rouge annoying but kinda considers her a friend and he's pretty chill with Amy. Just all those interactions just made me really like the guy in the comics and it sucks that the games have still yet to make Knuckles interesting to me (as from the looks of things, I'm in the minority here so meh).

Also I just love Boom Knuckles, he's so goddamn adorable! I mean yeah he's not bright but if you actually look into how he interacts and behaves in some episodes, he's actually not as dumb as people make him out to be. I mean, as of now Boom Knuckles was not tricked by Eggman at all! In fact in the comics, it was Boom Knux that tricked Eggman! I mean, the only time Boom Knux was tricked was in Unlucky Knuckles, where Sonic tricked him into joining Eggman. But to tell me that Boom Knux is a complete idiot, I'm going to disagree to an extent. Yes, he's not bright but then again, neither is regular Knuckles. But Boom Knux is just more open to taking to people and interacting with them and overall is just a goofball that has fun with things is a more endearing character to me than just a guy who's guarding a very powerful gem but doesn't really do a whole lot outside of that.

Again, I'm in the minority so whatever I guess. :/

[Dash Speed]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2013 at 9:09 PM, Knucklesgirl said:

 Yeah, I agree. Knuckles and Sonic should have a rivalry that continues, but It also isn't the only part of his personality. He needs to have that inferiority complex, or he isn't knuckles. he also has to puff himself up sometimes... but at the same time, he also cares a lot, and sometimes I see him as being a sensitive person. That is why I think he gets defensive in the first place .

Really, theres more to Knuckles than his speculative rivalry to Sonic. For starters the nothing that Knuckles is obessed with one upping Sonic is such a exxageration.

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2013 at 1:12 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Knuckles sees Sonic as his greatest rival and why he tries to one up him all of the time, Sonic meanwhile more than likely just sees Knuckles as someone to mess around with due to his temper.

No he sides with Sonic because they are friends and trust each other, possibly trusts Sonic more than he does anyone in the series. He along with Tails are Sonic's best buddies and any belligerence from the two is good natured tough love, bordering on brotherhood. Sonic and Knuckles are brothers and friendly rivals. I think you got Sonic confused with Rouge, who never gives her any benefit of the doubt and lashes out on her because she's a thief and a source of irritation for the guardian. I always saw Shadow as Sonic's true rival because Shadow hates Sonic on a competitive level and wants to best him every time they meet plus they never have the same viewpoints on anything.

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 0:50 AM, AtomicPencils said:

I dunno, it couldn't be that simple. He more seemed bugged by Sonic's behavior.

Yes, this right here. As the M.E.'s guardian, we can already tell he's responsible, dependable, and can keep himself level-headed in a bad situation. Sonic is none of these things. He lives by mercurial whims and doesn't think ahead very often, which the down-to-earth guardian sees as dangerous at worst. Knuckles probably doesn't know how to express his concerns, so he operates on "punch first, ask later".

And since Sonic seldom shows any care for his recklessness, Knuckles has bigger reason to be annoyed even more. They were built to clash with eachother. I kind of miss seeing that.

Amy and Tails(even Cream) picks on Knuckles to does that mean they were meant to clash, Amy of all of the Sonic Gang picks on and winds up Knuckles more than Sonic does, it's obviously meant to be harmless teasing, I swear you people see into things that don't even exist. If anything Sonic seems to tease Knuckles out of respectful intention than spite and amusement trying to get Knuckles to lighten up, stop being stuck up and get with the picture from being gullible. Amy is much meaner so is Rouge and seem to do it for their own amusement. Overall Knuckles thing with Sonic isn't mean't to be too complex, their friends and Sonic hangs out with him along with Tails as his usual company and they fight but it's not mean't to be serious, Knuckles is basically Sonic's big brother and Tails is the little brother and brothers just fight.

 

 

If you want to use a serious example of opposite clash in a rivalry then Shadow is your boy. He opposes everything Sonic does and thinks, he respects him but also loathes him for being a anathema to his very ideals and views. Sonic treats Shadow as a dangerous opponent too and fights him to the near death and they can actual equal one another in each stat making their fights more intensive.