Your thoughts on Sonic having a more expandable Rogues Gallery?

[Johnny Boy]

Okay, I've been thinking about making this thread for a while now. As we all know, sonic has fought a lot of colorful baddies other than Eggman over the years. But what I've noticed is that a lot of these villains weren't received very well. This because most non-Eggman villains suffer from one of the two problems:

• Monster of the Week- This is the type of villain that nearly dominated the series when sonic went 3d. This villain, as the title suggests, is just a mindless animal that will just destroy everything in sight. They have no motivation for being bad like Eggman or Metal Sonic, they are just nothing but primitive beasts.

• One Dimensional- For any non-Eggman villain that isn't a giant monster, this is what they usually suffer from. This type of character is just as bland and boring as you can get. The most notorious offender of this in my opinion is black doom. This guy is just your typical, run of the mill alien leader who wants to, you guessed it, take over the world. Honestly, all that guy seems to do throughout the entire game is just go like "Shadow it's your destiny to help us, the humans must suffer bwhahahaha". Like I said just as bland as you can get.

Now granted we have had some good non Eggman villains such as Erazor and (YMMV) Eggman Nega. And don't get me wrong I want eggman to remain THE central villain of the series, but I don't think there's anything wrong with sonic fighting some other baddies every once in a while just as long as they are done right. So what are your thoughts? Do you think sonic should fight new villains every now and then and have a colorful rogues gallery? Yay or Nay?

[Pawn]

I would like to see some more recurring villains. There doesn't even have to be very many, just maybe a couple to mix things up. Fang would be a good start, since it would be nice to have an enemy that is neither likely to defect to the good side nor is pure evil. Like Fang they don't have to be powerhouses (maybe a little more of a threat though), since I think Robotnik has the recurring ultimate villain role covered.

As far as the MotW's are concerned, I've never really liked any aside from Perfect Chaos. He was the only one with a good connection to the mythos, you could actually sympathise with him and therefore he wasn't one-dimensional. (OK so Metal was a bit different, but I thought the way they transformed him into one was a thoroughly shite idea) I think most of the stories (good or bad) could have worked just as well without them.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Lungo

[Badnik Zero]

Awesome idea. Erazor and Ix are the only two that succeed in this respect, far as I'm concerned. The Battlebirds succeed in Archie, but I wouldn't use them in another game. Also no aliens. They become cliche just by being aliens.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Badnikz

[No more]

Black doom, for his position in Shadow's life, had so much potential to be interesting. However in the circumstances SEGA put him in, they cocked it up.

But to be honest he's just a wizeman ripoff, in fact the whole shadow the hedgehog game is NiGHTS minus all the whimsical stuff plus a gun, think about it. Black doom even looks a bit like Wizeman.

I haven't seen much of Erazor or Ix to have a final decision, but Erazor to me is quite a combination of the two.

I think Merlina is the most interest villian, her character is complex and she has a legitamate reason.

[Dr. Mechano]

It's also important to keep in mind that said villains don't have to be main antagonists all the time either; Fang is a good example of a minor villain who served as a good secondary enemy to Eggman in Sonic Triple Trouble.

Something like that would actually be kinda neat; Usually it's Eggman who plays second-fiddle to the game's "main" villain, whenever a game has more than one antagonist. Putting Eggman as the central bad guy, but having another less central antagonist as an unrelated threat, could make for an interesting subplot.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Dr. Mechano

[Dr. Crusher]

As long as they're done well, I'd be fine with it. I genuinely liked Erazor/Merlina/Ix as villains and thought Black Doom was at least So Bad He's Good, so it's not like I'm against other villains by any means. As long as they're unique (design, personality, powers, etc) and are actual characters, and aren't a giant monster, the pieces should hopefully put themselves together.

I agree with Nack (and maybe Bean and Bark) being the shady mini-boss guy, and maybe guys like Kukku and King Boom Boo can show up now and again.

Oh, and I agree with Mechano's idea of something like the Triple Trouble scenario, but that shouldn't be surprising.

[Kuzu]

I like the idea of while Eggman being the primary threat, but there are a few other threats out there as well that need to be dealt with. Like the comics so far in this case, Eggman is very clearly the main threat, but Naugus taking over the kingdom is something that needs to be dealt with too.

A Big Bad Ensemble this way Eggman can remain a primary threat, while introducing other villains into the mix that may be recurring.

[Johnny Boy]

As long as they're done well, I'd be fine with it. I genuinely liked Erazor/Merlina/Ix as villains and thought Black Doom was at least So Bad He's Good, so it's not like I'm against other villains by any means. As long as they're unique (design, personality, powers, etc) and are actual characters, and aren't a giant monster, the pieces should hopefully put themselves together.

I agree with Nack (and maybe Bean and Bark) being the shady mini-boss guy, and maybe guys like Kukku and King Boom Boo can show up now and again.

Oh, and I agree with Mechano's idea of something like the Triple Trouble scenario, but that shouldn't be surprising.

I like the idea of fang the kukku army returning. That way team sonic can have their own arch enemies.

Sonic-Eggman

Tails- Kukku Army leader

Knuckles- Eh, any ideas?

[Dr. Crusher]

...Ix?

*shrug*

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Nack and Imperator Ix are some pretty good candidates to consider. Ix especially, because it gives more of a reason to have Knuckles around.

[Johnny Boy]

Yeah. To bad ix might never return unless sega decides to re introduce him somehow.

[Dr. Crusher]

Funny thing is, despite being based on the comics' Dark Legion and Finitevus, I DON'T like those guys, yet I do like Ix and the Nocturnous.

I think the designs might have something to do with it for me. Ix may have still been an echidna, but he at least looked more than just an albino Knuckles in a cape.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Johnny Boy]

You know we've never actually had a proper female villain. I've always thought it would be a bit cool to give egg man a (smoking hot) female assistant and be an arch enemy to Amy.

[Kuzu]

You know we've never actually had a proper female villain. I've always thought it would be a bit cool to give egg man a (smoking hot) female assistant and be an arch enemy to Amy.

Merlina, Wendy Witchcraft.

Although I don't like the idea of having a female antagonist just for the sake of a girl fight, it reeks of unfortunate implications.

[Johnny Boy]

Merlina, Wendy Witchcraft.

Although I don't like the idea of having a female antagonist just for the sake of a girl fight, it reeks of unfortunate implications.

Forgot about Wendy. And I wouldn't like to count Merlina since she came to her senses at the end.

[Indigo Rush]

I think it's best if things are kept simple, but a few misfits here and there wouldn't be too much of an issue, I don't think.

Having Eggman, Metal Sonic and his badnik crew (Orbot, Cubot, etc) as the main threat should be expansive enough. It'd be interesting to see lackies like Orbot and even a recurring Egg Pawn take the helm of some of Eggman's big machines to stop Sonic and friends while Eggman is hard at work at his master plan.

Aside from that, we have Fang the Sniper who, I personally think, is long overdue for a return as a hired hand of Dr Eggman, if not a rogue in his own right out to steal the Chaos Emeralds or Master Emerald out of greed alone.

Additionally, there's Bean and Bark who, to me, seem to fit the Wario/Waluigi or Bulk/Skull archetype of not being completely evil, but rather being a duo of disaster for both sides of the party. "Why should Sonic get all the glory? Why can't WE be the heroes!?"

Also can't forget Eggman Nega, who... is either Eggman's alter-ego or his descendant. I'm not sure what the case is, but having him barge in on everything and shake things up can be interesting if done well.

Then there's the Battle Kuku Army who's been brought up before. I don't know what their motivation or reasoning for conquest is, but having them show up on occasion to cause trouble to both Sonic and Eggman could prove interesting.

There's also the concept of Eggman hacking into GUN's databases and causing their powerful mechanical army to become obedient to Eggman's desires. That in itself could be a major plot device and reasoning to bring Shadow and Rouge into the mix. What if GUN were secretly working on a new Artificial Chaos or Diablon for defense purposes, only to have Eggman gain control? Have them fight off GUN's rogue robots for the safety of the planet. Seems interesting, no?

Then there are the monsters of the week. Having an ancient beast sleeping in the center of the earth or some crap isn't the most creative thing they can do. Of all available options out there, I'd recommend this one the least. Even if the monster in question is under Eggman's thumb, it's kind of annoying to see brute irredeemable beasts as the enemy instead of more interesting villains like Eggman.

And finally, there's the option of creating something completely new. Whether it's a one-off or a new recurring character, there could be potential. G-Mel for one had something going on for a while. What if Eggman regained control of him? What if a new Gizoid is uncovered? How about making a villain who has a reason to fight against Sonic rather than just being a bloodthirsty beast? It could work.

[AlphaRuby]

What about one of the forgotten characters from the 90s? (Mighty, Ray, etc)

Their motivation could be that they were tired of being forgotten, mocked, laughed at, etc.

[Johnny Boy]

What about one of the forgotten characters from the 90s? (Mighty, Ray, etc)

Their motivation could be that they were tired of being forgotten, mocked, laughed at, etc.

Nah, that would just be way to similar to epic Mickey.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What about one of the forgotten characters from the 90s? (Mighty, Ray, etc)

Their motivation could be that they were tired of being forgotten, mocked, laughed at, etc.

Those aren't antagonists, those are heroes. And we have enough of those already.

And that is a very weak motivation to turn them into antagonist. I've seen children stories with more depth than that.

Edited February 12, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dr. Crusher]

What about one of the forgotten characters from the 90s? (Mighty, Ray, etc)

Their motivation could be that they were tired of being forgotten, mocked, laughed at, etc.

No joy there.

People were already making Shadow Blot jokes relating to the Time Eater. We don't need more Epic Mickey similarities.

[Kuzu]

Those aren't antagonists, those are heroes. And we have enough of those already.

And that is a very weak motivation to turn them into antagonist. I've seen children stories with more depth than that.

To be fair, Mighty and Ray are so obscure, I don't think it matters either way.

[Cortez]

Slightly off-topic but other than Archie has it actually been stated that Bean and Bark are antagonists? Bean is a homage to the Dynamite Dux and they weren't exactly bad guys.

I did like Void as an enemy, though that was a typical 'I hate everything because nobody likes me' character that turned good at the end anyway thanks to the power of friendship haha.

[Your Vest Friend]

Slightly off-topic but other than Archie has it actually been stated that Bean and Bark are antagonists? Bean is a homage to the Dynamite Dux and they weren't exactly bad guys.

Generations pegged them down as criminals.

[Kuzu]

Ever since Archie, I'm pretty sure everyone has Bean and Bark pegged as Antagonists.

Which raises a question, do we simply want more characters other than Eggman to antagonize Sonic and co. or do we want actual villains who have evil motives like Eggman?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[The future]

I said this before, but the Hunter from Archie Comics would have been an EXCELLENT enemy to Sonic and company in the games. His motivations is not to conquer the world; it is just to hunt down Sonic and friends for the sake as trophies. Makes him much more menacing and scary than the typical villian.

Bean and Bark would be an excellent version of Fang. They would have taken place of Knuckles in S3&K as enemies that cause havoc randomly in stages.