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Chaos Walker

So.... what happened when I wasn't looking?

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Does it have to come to this again?

...

Anyway Generations Modern generally plays like Unleashed and Colours. Controls are more akin to Unleashed than Colours but with improvement, but there's a lot of platforming too, though it can be quite blocky at times, like Colours. The light dash and wall jump are context sensitive, which sucks, particularly for the former which appears so few times it's almost pointless.

Classic controls okay, but you'll miss a shit ton of jumps as they're heavier than in the classic games. Also the physics are still shit, but the level design wouldn't really use it that much anyway unless speed boosters were removed. It handles better than Sonic 4 though.

Most people would generally consider it improving, but it all depends on how much you like the modern gameplay, as this very thread proves. I say make your own mind up. I really enjoyed it though and it's one of my favourite games in the series.

It's also worth noting the levels are often less linear than in Unleashed, so there's more alternate paths and shortcuts watching videos won't show all of.

Edited by Semi-colon e

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I think I'd actually have been disapointed if an argument didn't start up. X3

Seaside hill was... underhwhelming in terms of 3D... 2D sections looked fine, but when the perspective changed things weren't quite as interesting.

I really think Sonic has the tools at this point (as mentioned above), it's just making them usefull and interesting with the level itself. If anything I'd cut out a couple moves from the set so there could be capitalization on a few. Say for example, only the stomp, slide, and homing attack were saved and levels were built around those.

Why is that?

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I really think Sonic has the tools at this point (as mentioned above), it's just making them usefull and interesting with the level itself.
The problem, I think, is that all the tools are very limited in use. There's really nothing that has more than one purpose, and a lot of them are very limited to context.

The stomp makes you drop straight down and breaks things under you. There's a few things you need to stomp to get past, and speedrunners use it for positioning, but that's about it.

The slide goes under things that the slide is meant to go under. You can damage enemies with it but there's almost no reason to use it for that, given the boost.

The light dash just skips a section of the level if you press the button. Even if it served some other purpose, at this point you can only use it on the rings they say you can use it on.

Drifting only has any use at high speeds. I can't fault it being included if it's necessary (which I'm not 100% convinced it is), but it clearly isn't doing anything for low-speed gameplay.

Quick step changes lanes. Use it when you need to change lanes. Otherwise, don't use it.

The homing attack's already had several essay's worth devoted to the problems with it.

Compared to the Genesis games, which had fewer moves, but they were better integrated. The physics and slope mechanics were almost constantly relevant. The roll worked with them. Jumping worked with them. And the spindash was balanced such that they weren't rendered irrelevant.

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Here we go.

Ugh, no.

I admit I was curious if Diogenes had any reasoning beyond that he found the 3D gameplay boring and uninteresting, but I'm 100% a-okay with him having that opinion. As long as he doesn't expect me to share it. I refuse to invent a time machine to go back in time two months in order to convince my past self that he's not enjoying Generations immensely, 3D gameplay and all.

Past Me is a stubborn bastard.

EDIT: What the? You're supposed to tell me when somebody else posts while I'm typing, SSMB. Stop slacking off on the job! Having now heard Diogenes's reasoning in better detail, I'm satisfied.

Edited by Grumpy Old Guy

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Can't really speak for the HD Generations, but the 3DS edition, while two worlds shorter, and having much less content, does have a nearly perfect replication of classic Sonic gameplay. The Dreamcast and Modern stages are wonderfully re-imagined ( the Genesis levels for Classic are exact remakes pretty much. ) And Modern Sonic feels like a vast improvement over Rush, levels being designed much less like barely interactive line-riders than the last few handheld sonics.

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Can't really speak for the HD Generations, but the 3DS edition, while two worlds shorter, and having much less content, does have a nearly perfect replication of classic Sonic gameplay. The Dreamcast and Modern stages are wonderfully re-imagined ( the Genesis levels for Classic are exact remakes pretty much. ) And Modern Sonic feels like a vast improvement over Rush, levels being designed much less like barely interactive line-riders than the last few handheld sonics.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you there, since the levels felt more mindless than ever to me. I think the fact that the 3D opened the areas up more actually hurt it insofar that it feels less tight.

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You are correct, madam. Fortunately, Sega anticipated your dismay and made Generations 99 levels long with some balls-hard S-ranks to get.

Hmmm? Oh, you just played the main acts and the one mission per zone? Well, yeah, that does make for a really short and easy game. Wait, a game that's both easy and hard, both short and length at the same time!? GASP AND HORROR! Can it be that Sega has made an accessible Sonic game specifically intended to cater to both casual AND hardcore fans!?

Stop the presses! Inform the people!

What? Yeah, that was kinda dickish of me. I'll stop the sarcasm now. A 7.9 is actually a pretty decent score for this game. It's pretty great, but it's not perfect.

They're poorly designed side missions, which are simply replaying the the same stages, but shortened. They don't add anything apart from clunkiness to the game.

You think saying "Yeah, that was dickish of me." makes it alright to insult somebody? It doesn't. Every 10 posts or so, I always get a user with a high post-count making an insulting response to a perfect fine post, in order to get a cheap thrill with a dozen of likes. It's not just me, it happens to most users with a low post-count as well. I'll never understand how this is allowed. It's like high school exclusion all over again.

Sorry for ranting, but I just had to say something...

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They're poorly designed side missions, which are simply replaying the the same stages, but shortened. They don't add anything apart from clunkiness to the game.

You think saying "Yeah, that was dickish of me." makes it alright to insult somebody? It doesn't. Every 10 posts or so, I always get a user with a high post-count making an insulting response to a perfect fine post, in order to get a cheap thrill with a dozen of likes. It's not just me, it happens to most users with a low post-count as well. I'll never understand how this is allowed. It's like high school exclusion all over again.

I question the "perfectly fine post" definition, but I'm willing to admit that instead of just saying I was being dickish, I should've apologised for being dickish.

I apologise for being dickish.

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I question the "perfectly fine post" definition, but I'm willing to admit that instead of just saying I was being dickish, I should've apologised for being dickish.

I apologise for being dickish.

Well, this is a prime example. All I did was summarize my thoughts on the game in a polite manner, and got a very insulting response out of the blue with quite a few likes. What I don't get is, why didn't you simply edit your post before posting it, instead of just throwing the "That was dickish of me." excuse in there?

It's alright though. I accept your apology...

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For me, Generations is mostly enjoyable because of the nostalgia element, and I find myself going back to it for that. The reason for this is that gameplay-wise it doesn't hold as much replay value as a game with merely 9 levels (with 2 acts) should. I agree with Diogenes about the Modern side of things, but I don't think Classic is quite as bad as he says. It's still a far cry from the gameplay it's trying to emulate, but it's a lot more enjoyable than Sonic 4 (not a huge achievement, but a massive relief). Having said that, I don't find myself favouring them significantly over the Modern outings. I tend to replay them both about the same. I actually gravitate more towards replaying the bosses though. Most are easy but for the most part improve vastly over the original battles.

Meanwhile the throwaway missions, added to pad out the game as much as possible, were only worth playing once (that being because I didn't know how crap they were until I played them for the first time). About the only ones I might consider going back to are the doppelganger missions, as there is some actual challenge in beating your ghost to the finish in the later levels.

That all might sound a bit negative, but I still enjoy the game. More for the aesthetics and the fond memories than the gameplay, though. I don't think the gameplay is bad, so much as lacking in a lot of areas. If you're unsure I'd at least suggest you give it a rent. It's certainly short enough to complete within one night.

Edited by Lungo

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Teaching internet ettiquette with zero introspection

Yikes. Apology withdrawn.

Anyway, after giving it some thought I'm compelled to agree with the very limited usability of Modern Sonic's wide skillset. That doesn't detract from my overall enjoyement of the game, but I do miss the ability to occasionally save my ass from an unfortunate pit death by air boosting into the side of the pit and using wall jumps to get back to safety. I find the stomp very useful however, though it's most useful in the 2D parts where it's easy to gauge position relative to whatever platform is below.

What made the 3D sections of Generations such a vast improvement over Unleashed for me was simply having the forward dash be seperate from the air boost button. A homing attack into empty air is extremely useful for correcting a jump during precision platforming, in my experience.

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And what is the proper way to use these moves that I have somehow missed?

I'm still pretty pleased with my idea I came up with to make a (slower) Light Speed Dash have actual gameplay purpose through giving the ability to break out of it while keeping momentum:

lightdashexample.png

Edited by JezMM

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Generations is a fine game, but the problem with it is while it's better than any 3D Sonic game out there right now, that doesn't really say much.

The charm of Generations isn't with how good or bad it is, but rather it was a high dose of nostalgia that took you down memory lane. Combined with how well designed each stage was and the game gathers extra points for that. This is also why I find it to be a rather shallow game. I don't dislike it persay, but it really just feels like there's a lack of heart that allows me to appreciate it.

And I still can't see how people can say Classic Sonic's gameplay is better than Modern's.

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