What's the Point of Taking Things Away?

[JezMM]

In response to your big post on the last page Indigo, you made your point well and I understand better, though of course still disagree.

The main criticism I'd have for how you were treated was the fact that you said you hated it and can't remember a single happy memory from your childhood.

Now, maybe I've been spoilt a bit, my parents did most things for me for a long time. Now I'm at Uni and having to be an adult and it's boring the crap outta me (example: I honestly get freaked out over phone calls and broke down the other day on realisation I'd have to call the bank AGAIN to sort out the rest of a little theft problem I'd had). I'll be an adult when I need to be, but it's hard, and for the most part I just want to be free and have fun like one does in their childhood.

Now I'm not really making a point here because either way is wrong. But the fact that you came out of your discipline regime a better person doesn't make up for a childhood that wasn't lived to the fullest. I feel children should have the best time they can during their 10 or so years of innocence.

Fortunately for me, if Mollfie and I ever get married and such (which sort of is the current plan), I'll have her to help me not spoil our kid(s) in this same way I was spoilt with regards to growing up. I'm 19 and only learnt how to use a washing machine half a year ago. D=

So I can understand a mixture of discipline and love is required. Not just one or the other.

I think the harshest punishment I could ever manage is grounding them to their room without stuff to play with. If they're anything like me, that'll drive em mad, I hate boredom. X3 Perhaps threaten them with no dinner, but I'd never be cruel enough to starve them. I'd just make them wait til later.

Your plan for you being a parent sounds reasonable anyway Indigo. I will agree that you turned out to be a pretty good person, I just still feel it's a shame that you had to suffer to get there.

[Indigo Rush]

Oh, I agree that a child should live a happy life! I meant to say that a life that was more like the latter part of my childhood would've been better if it were a tad less strict and more loving. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as a parent, you need to be kind but firm.

[DarkOverord]

Now I'm not really making a point here because either way is wrong. But the fact that you came out of your discipline regime a better person doesn't make up for a childhood that wasn't lived to the fullest. I feel children should have the best time they can during their 10 or so years of innocence.

I made my childhood hell, I can tell you this now. Looking back, I know I was driving my mum to the end of her wits. I blamed her for everything, dad leaving, even though that was before I even started school, my temper, all that jazz. So I took it out on her (And just to make things better, when I finally told a councillor, she told mum that she was a bad parent. Which isn't true, I look back now and see she was brilliant. She tried her best to keep me happy. I just refused to let her), but when I wasn't kicking off and making her cry by being the child from hell (Which lasted till I was about 7), I realise I had a bloody brilliant life. Mum made a lot of sacrifices for me, biggest example was getting a mega-drive. Pre-owned. But mum couldn't afford it on a whim, she'd saved up all year for my birthday. As I got older I got better obviously. And I'll be honest, I'm almost 20 and probably rely on mum too much XP She still does my washing for me once a fortnight. I can use a washing machine, but not the crap ones uni have >.>

And mum was strict, and my sister almost has the same discipline regime, except her dad's a soft touch and gets spoiled by him, much to mum's dismay. That and the fact my sister wasn't a child from hell.

[Candescence]

Interesting discussion. Now, I don't remember having my stuff taken away, really, besides the occasional cut-off of internet access. Otherwise, I simply got a stern talking to, normally by my father, who, when he does it, has that powerful angry voice that really gets the point across. And really, I'm doing fairly well. Society places too much focus on marks these days. I'm currently aiming for the HSC, but I realise that, hopefully, my mark won't matter when getting a job in the video game industry, because developers don't care jack shit about marks, I hear, they care about your portfolio.

Anyway, it's interesting to see all these different stories about the various punishments people get... I'd never imagine getting hit, myself. Though...

Thought this is a bit off-topic... It seems the Japanese don't mind physical punishment, if certain manga and anime are to be believed. I mean, Izumi from FMA sends Ed and Al through training from hell and beats the snot out of them as punishment when she realises that they attempted human transmutation, but she comes off as stern yet loving from an eastern audience. Then there's Norman from the Pokemon Adventures Manga. His son, Ruby, runs away from home to battle in contests, and Norman finds him in a ruin, and then starts beating the snot out him, He then uses his Slaking to rip out the stair his son is standing on, (almost hitting a bystander), and dangles him, over the edge of the building. His son is finally forced to start fighting back, until the floor collapses, with them both dangling over the edge, they just miss some metal debris, Ruby is knocked out, and his father stands to start battling again, before conceding his son's goal. Then we get this. Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh...

Edited May 16, 2009 by Soma Cruz

[Mollfie]

@ Soma Cruz

Yeeeeah...I know what you're talking about and referring to, but all I hear is blahblahblahblahblah lol jkjk. That's a very small percentage of anime out of the THOUSANDS that there are. Plus usually the parent/adult is portrayed as being a right git anyway, so the audience doesn't sympathise with them at all.

But anyway, that's maybe a little too offtopic.

I do agree that you should be kind but firm. But I still stand by my original point, that you can discipline a child without having to lay a finger on them...unless you're giving them cuddles n___n lol

Edited May 16, 2009 by Mollfie

[Reverest]

I am not going to summer school, they sent out cards saying who is going to summer school. Thing is they also said I passed around the second quarter. So I don't see WHY I need to get B's or A's. I actually like school mind you.

BTW:Off topic but this topic got so popular so quickly!

No I like school, but she literally meant staying at home reading books all summer. She also mentioned Military School which I wasn't really excited about.

Reading over the summer wasn't punishment for me (it felt like it, though) it was a requirement! Although I suppose I'm just reminiscing at this point...

It's a requirement for us too. But we don't have to read huge textbooks all summer long.

EDIT:100th Post!

Edited May 16, 2009 by Q-Boy Forest

[Stacy]

Yeah, I hated getting smacked. Now I'm glad they did it. If they didn't discipline me, then I'd be a far off worse bloke to be hanging out on the forums with you guys. Now, let me be clear before I rant on about how I was punished, I'm going to compare ACTUAL abuse to ACTUAL discipline.

When I lived with my

cross-dressing

stepfather, I'd say the crap I had to put up with was pretty terrible.

Did you have your ear pulled at and almost ripped off by your stepfather?

Did you ever have to deal with being sworn at by your stepfather?

Were you ever wrestled down to the floor and tossed around by your stepfather?

When your stepfather spanked you, did he make you drop your pants and have you hung by your hands and feet (with the help of dear old mommy) and be relentlessly beat on the arse until it was redder than red itself?

Have you ever feared for your life whenever you hung around your stepfather?

I didn't think so. That is abuse. That is abusing your child. And the insane man got away with it, too. And let me emphasize, it stopped me from doing certain things, yes, but it taught me a lesson on how NOT to parent.

Now, let me tell you how I was handled after my current parents (father and stepmother) took custody.

They certainly took a more hands-off approach to punishment. They focussed more on sticking me in my room for a day if i screwed up, and only lightly swatted my rear when I used filthy language or disrespected my parents. It was rare, and it stopped when I turned 13. After which, more severe punishments occurred such as a more severe grounding. Which was hard to do, I had no videogame systems and restricted television in the first place.

So, that's my discipline story. Eventually I showed my parents I didn't give a damn about one thing or another, and once I realized I was without discipline and was being a douche, I actually opted myself to go to military school. Let me ask you, would bad parenting make you want to do that?

Anyway, I think that once you put things into perspective, a light swat across the fanny isn't a terrible punishment. It's not abuse in the slightest, and the way you were punished (an indirect comment, mind you) really makes a difference. Of course as a kid you're going to hate it. I hated every minute of my childhood. I can't remember a single happy moment in my child life other than playing my Sega Genesis when I was a with my mother (probably why I'm a Sonic fan; only good thing in my childhood) but as a late-teen young-adult, I look back to the way my stepmother and father (the non abusive ones with mild spanking) and saw how affective it really was. It didn't sink in at first, and my parents didn't like doing it either, but through time and discipline and learning over time, I finally understood why they did what they did.

For parents who want immediate results, not spanking won't help, and neither will spanking. You won't get immediate results. Even if your child has a pleasant disposition and doesn't need spanking or punishment, there will still be things they won't understand unless you explain it to them at first. If they refuse to listen or just don't get it, they will when they're older. You all understand WHY you were punished and WHAT you did wrong, yes?

If I was a parent (which I hope to be) I would avoid spanking my kid, of course, but if they ever misbehave, I'll pull them over and tell them "no." We will agree that the child won't do it. If they disobey, they get a second warning. If they pull it again, then they get spanked. And if they don't get it, they'll learn to be afraid of doing whatever it is that they did wrong, not be afraid of ME. Because I won't be all spank. Children who fear their parents fear them because all they do is spank. My children won't fear me because I will raise them with a loving yet firm hand. I'll use both positive and negative reinforcements. Hence the term reinforcement, not enforcement. I won't be parenting on enforcement alone. There will be communication as soon as the kid is old enough to comprehend language, and I will educate him/her and make sure they are raised to be a good and polite child.

For some reason, people still don't seem to understand that the two can go together.

Wow I am surprised you still believe in a God going through that, and why are you using english phrases?

[JezMM]

Wow I am surprised you still believe in a God going through that, and why are you using english phrases?

That statement (and this reply) is a bit off-topic, but anyone who stops believing in their God just because something bad happens to them has a pretty weak morale towards their religion. In fact, it's usually the belief in their God that gets people through the bad times because they know someone still loves them and is looking out for them, whether it seems like it at the time or not.

[Indigo Rush]

That statement (and this reply) is a bit off-topic, but anyone who stops believing in their God just because something bad happens to them has a pretty weak morale towards their religion. In fact, it's usually the belief in their God that gets people through the bad times because they know someone still loves them and is looking out for them, whether it seems like it at the time o

r not.

What Jez said. Not to turn this into a religious discussion, but God wants us to persevere through our trials. Back then, I didn't know that. God had completely escaped me. I didn't become a devout Christian until my time in military school. I believe my life was set up so that I would become a Christian that way, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Call me crazy if you must.

[Saint Nathan]

Oh god. Are there REALLY people here that think they SHOUDEN'T have things taken away when they don't do what they should as a child?

What YOU want is for your parents to just shrug and look away while you mess up, fail, do stupid things, and act like a retarted monkey.

If your parents love you, then they won't do that.

See, taking things away is one of the few ways parents can do things nowadays without being charged with child abuse. If your failing school, and your always on the computer/gamez/TV, it'll be taken away SO YOU WILL DO BETTER IN SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU HAVE LESS DISTRACTIONS. If you STILL fail school after that, well damn, your obviously too stubborn to go anywhere in life.

This is coming from a 15 year old who is right in the phase where he should be hating his parents into the dirt, see?

They do it because they CARE for you. If you can't prove that you can be trusted with something, obviously you won't get the chance to prove yourself with it around.

[Eileanach]

^ Quoted for truth, Galaxy Man is the smartest 15 year old for his age. I am glad there are SOME mid-teens who are not completely dramalicious about their parents taking stuff away.

This is why you get punished they do it because they love you. It's not because they hate you and want you to be bored, they want you to do well and want the very best for you.

[Mollfie]

Huh I didn't notice anyone saying don't punish kids. It's just been a discussion as to whether or not you should hit/smack kids.

[Saint Nathan]

Molfie V

Okay, since I been getting F's in classes. I got my Wii and 360 taken away. Which leads me to making this topic(Luckily my computer was spared). Anyways, what is the point of taking things away from kids for getting F's in classes or stuff like that? I mean, why do parents act like it will teach kids a lesson and think that it will make them never do the wrong thing again? I don't get it, what is the point? It WON'T stop them. I mean, the stupidest reason for taking something away is getting F in classes. They act like it will make you get better grades and make you focus more in class. What are your thoughts on these kind of things?

It's like, the whole point of the topic, it just got off-topic. XD

[Mollfie]

I interpretted it more as "don't take my stuff away" not "don't punish me". As in, punish in a different way?

I dunno *shrug* and I thought you were referring more broadly to all of us, cos most of us have ended up going slightly off topic.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mollfie

[LATER BUDDY]

Taking shizz away can mean different things to kids I guess. For example, me and my younger brother are as polar opposite as you can get. From either him having anger issues and me being mellow as can be, to him enjoy killing the wild rodents for fun and me having a hard time deciding if I should really obey my parents and terminate the mouse that fell in my window well or set it free (I set it free, XD).

This is all relevant to taking stuff away. I've had things taken away before, but I work hard to do better so I can have them back again quickly and don't do it again. I find that logical just to keep my shit together so I don't have to have a punishment. It's been working great so far, 8D. My brother on the other hand, just cannot get a hold of things. He'll run away from home, do poorly and lie straight to my parent's faces that he's doing well, and does other things you are not supposed to; all getting punished for it, but he continues anyways.

I just think people have different mindsets and attitudes on things, so there are obviously different forms of punishment. I feel bad for parents, >_<.

-Blur

[Mollfie]

My parents never took stuff away from me because we only got presents at birthdays or Christmas, if we wanted something then we had to wait until then. So my parents thought it was way too mean to take something away that we;d pretty much earnt by waiting all year for it. Also as I got older if I wanted a games console, new games, music etc then I'd have to save my pocket money to buy them. So my parents would never have taken those away because I bought those for myself.

I know it sounds odd, but again I view it similarly to how I view hitting kids. Why is it ok for an adult to take things away from a kid? If your child turned round and said "you were really mean to me today mum, so you can't watch TV at all today", you'd be really taken aback and annoyed. I know that as the parent you have to punish your children, but once again I think there's alternatives.

But yeah, my parents have never been pushy about anything. They'd encourage me to do my personal best. But I was NEVER compared to other kids. I suck at maths, I was always failing. My parents didn't mind because they knew I was trying my very best (Maths makes me cry >.> I cried in class lots because I didn't understand and I had a panic attack before my GCSEs) so when I got a C on my GCSEs my parents were over the moon!

I can't really explain how my parents disicplined me. I just remember being told off when I did something that put me or others in danger. Otherwise, aslong as I said sorry it was ok. If I broke something I had to tidy it up, for example. That was my punishment, to tidy up the mess I'd created.

I think I just had a very odd childhood compared to most people, I had so much freedom. I was usually always left to do what I wanted aslong as it wasn't dangerous. When I talk about my childhood with others, theirs sounds totally different, much more boring and much more...structured? I can't think of the word. I was allowed to wander around the village with my friend, run around in fields and on farms, and I would go down back lanes and pick berries and such. Nowadays no one would let their kid do that. I find that really really sad.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Mollfie

[Saint Nathan]

My parents never took stuff away from me because we only got presents at birthdays or Christmas, if we wanted something then we had to wait until then. So my parents thought it was way too mean to take something away that we;d pretty much earnt by waiting all year for it. Also as I got older if I wanted a games console, new games, music etc then I'd have to save my pocket money to buy them. So my parents would never have taken those away because I bought those for myself.

See, that's a diffrent thing. The OP's point was that he got an F, and had items taken away. The items in question are things that could distract the OP from doing what they SHOULD be doing. I know, I never do my homework, and all that stuff does is make it harder to even make the attempt. But the OP thinks that it won't solve anything when it isn't supposed to. It's supposed to help YOU to make the change, not for your parents to change you. But your parents only gave you these things on a very rare occasion, or even you bought them yourself. That would be simply mean to take away something you had to earn over time or labor, so you were simply taught a diffrent way.

And really Mollfie, you seem like the kind of person who puts everything into what you want to do. I doubt that there was any real NEED to take away a distraction.

[JezMM]

Funnily enough, I would suck at work if my pleasures got taken away. D= The only way I can EVER struggle through an essay is giving myself a "for every 100 words you can play one level" deal.

I recently made a picture book for Creative Writing, and even though I would recieve no extra marks for actually drawing the pictures, I decided to anyway. One picture, one level of Shadow was the deal. I got all into it again after making the topic a while back. X3

But yeah, if my child was struggling... I'd try out the above method on them. Though frankly, I'm not that worried about my future kid's grade. As long as they're doing really well in one thing, and simply passing in all the rest, I'll be happy. That'll show that they have a keen interest or direction to head towards, and presumebly just find the rest boring. If my kid (somehow) ends up loving Maths and hating Art, so be it. I'm not gonna expect them to get a good grade in art if they find it boring. Of course I will wonder where I went wrong since both Mollfie and I hate Maths with a passion, but still!

Parents who demand straight A's of their kids annoy me. From observations from my online friends, this seems to happen in America far more often I've noticed too, and that also seems to be where I find most kids talk about how they have mild mental disorders as a result of all the pressure. Whenever my US friends were upset, they'd usually begin with "Well for a start my parents are really annoyed coz my grades are low..." "Low? How much?" "Like, C's..." And I'm like "Wtf is wrong with your parents, C's are fine. D=" in my head...

Demanding perfection like that is very unsupportive of your child as an individual with strengths and weaknesses, like everyone else. I'm a strong believer in "Do your best", not "Be the best".

Edited May 18, 2009 by JezMM

[Mollfie]

And really Mollfie, you seem like the kind of person who puts everything into what you want to do. I doubt that there was any real NEED to take away a distraction.

Why thank you n___n

I can understand taking away distractions, but....my parents set up a routine of

come home

do homework (I'd do the homework due soonest and some project work)

eat dinner

do any more homework left over

any free time left you can do what you want

bed

yeah sometimes it meant I didn't have time to do any fun stuff cos I had lots of work, but then I'd know I'd done the work and that meant that I never had to do work at the weekend like most of my friends who left it all until then.

When do you do your homework? If you can timetable it atleast a bit then it makes it much easier to handle, and if your organised then it often makes it easier to take the work onboard and you might improve your grades that way. If you are getting bad grades because you find the work/school hard then I'd suggest talking to someone about getting some help, like a tutor or something?

Do US school have sets? Like set 1 would be the really clever kids who gets As and Bs, set 2 would be the kids who are middle of the road and get lower Bs and Cs, set three would be the kids who get low Cs and Ds four would be the kids who get low Ds, Es and F? If they do then I can understand your parents being annoyed if you're underachieving cos say your'e in set 3 and you should be getting Bs and Cs but you're getting Fs. But I used to be in set 4 at my school so getting a D was great lol XD Our sets used to be re-done every year and people would shift around because obviously as the work gets harder some people would start getting lower grades.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Mollfie

[ovarloard]

I'm not sure what sets are, but if I've interpreted correctly, they are groups of people who get the same grade and so learn at about the same rate as each other, so they are following one curriculum in one class while the higher sets are following a higher-level curriculum in a different class.

There aren't sets in US schools; occasionally, if you are better in certain classes, you can skip up to higher levels of those classes, but for the most part, people, no matter what grades they are getting, stay in the same classes. I've skipped up to a higher grade of science and math (high school level) while still in middle school.

Edited May 18, 2009 by OvErLoRd

[Mollfie]

^ aah ok that's cool. Yeah you're in the same year, but the year is split up so that no one gets left behind. That way the kids who are good at a subject don't end up being held back by people not so good at the subject and vice versa. Although it does upset some kids to be in a lower set, and some kids get really big headed about being in a higher set, I think it's a good idea. I was awful at maths, and being put in the lowest set made me much happier because I could keep up with the work and didn't feel like a complete idiot all the time.

[ovarloard]

At my school, not many people want to get good grades and people want to seem like idiots, so that they can say that they're "cool because they don't care about school".

[Double Agent Motobug]

xD Hah, yeah, my parents tried the "Taking things away" routine on me, as well as various other non-physical approaches; Mom's really fucking good at guilting people. The only thing that happened, as I had a breakdown and couldn't function at all, 'cause my school life was actually the cause of my failing, not my home life. xP

And yes I'd talked to my parents, and the school authorities before. Parents tried helping, but it was embarrassing and hurting my school life, and the teachers and company told me that I needed to be present to bullying, 'cause it'd help a young lad like me learn to deal with situations when I'm older.

=) after 2 years, I skipped class, got a call from the vice principal, and told him to fuck himself, and never went back. xD But then I became seriously ill, and unable to attend, so now I can't, until we figure out what's wrong with me. </3;

So yeah, there's another view on the 'taking away' punishment. It could work for the kids who's actual problem was their homelife, but when it's their school life, it might fuck stuff up even more. Not that I'm blaming my parents for trying, though, bless them. I might have killed myself if I'd stayed in that school longer; it was that bad xP

Edited May 19, 2009 by Yusuke