Are you happy with the current direction of the series?

[Cyrus]

Yes, yes I am. Sonic Colors felt like Sonic's rebirth, and it had a story similar to the classics. Sonic is saving creatures that aren't humans, Eggman is power hungry and has built a giant contraption for his evil deeds, yadda yadda yadda.

Sonic Team should bring bak momentum-based platforming, though.

[Gregzilla]

Personally I'm divided on the subject. There are some aspects of the series that I think have been steadily improving, while others have been getting worse. I'll talk about what I'm happy with first.

The Unleashed-style gameplay, while more restricted than the Adventure style, is definitely getting better. Unleashed had too much ultra-fast speed hallways, Colors had too much blocky platforming, but in Generations it seems that the gameplay has hit a much nicer middle-ground. Platforming feels much more blended into the environments, leading to a much smoother experience. I'm loving the multiple paths the levels are getting, and hope future levels in the series have them as well. I'm also a big fan of the aesthetic style of the newer games, with beautiful graphics and locations that fit in well with the characters, and the music continues to kick ass. And while the stories are much more minimal, I find the writing to be a billion-times better than that of previous games. Colors actually had me laughing at some points - for the right reasons. Sonic, Tails, and Eggman all seem like much more interesting characters. Overall I think the series is at a pretty good point right now. Now what I don't like.

While the Unleashed gameplay is improving, it still feels hard to control at times. At high speeds the quick-step feels great, but try walking around an area in Generations slowly, like City Escape's little section with the extra life. Sonic still controls awkwardly when trying to perform what should be very simple turns. In a 3D platformer, grabbing an item that is a foot away from my character at slow speeds should NOT take multiple tries. Making Sonic do precise turns still needs improvement, and overall you feel like you aren't in control as much as, say, Sonic Adventure. In that game, Sonic could turn just as well as any other 3D platformer character, yet you still had momentum and speed. Plus, his extremely long and floaty jump actually helped in the platforming sections, since he was a fast character that needed to make quick decisions on when and where to jump. In that game, experimenting with movement actually felt like you could try to make your own shortcuts and routes, while experimenting in the new games will most likely get you killed. Moving on. On the whole, it seems like the new games aren't really going above and beyond to really impress us outside of the main gameplay. Unleashed had a ton of padding, Colors was short, and Generations was shorter. Either give us lots of extra content, or take the extra development time to make the main game longer - preferably both. Look at Adventure 2: you got your main levels, an interesting story, multiplayer, 5 missions per stage, 3 Chao gardens with Chao stats and minigames, boss rushes, kart racing, sound test, and more. A lot of that stuff wasn't even necessary, but giving us optional stuff like that really shows when a developer cares about creating a long and memorable experience. Generations gave us a fun main game, unlockable art and music, the original Sonic 1, some meh bonus missions....and that's it. No multiplayer outside of leaderboards, very few extra modes, and the story was absolutely pathetic. It was still great because the core game was fun, but adding more bells and whistles really could have propelled it to a fantastic game.

Overall, I'm happy with the series at the moment, but improvements are still necessary. I guess I'm just content because the past 10 years have been pretty crappy to Sonic, so a "great" Sonic game seems like an "amazing" game at this point.

[Thirsty Pocket]

I am actually pretty dissatisfied with it.

I was happier when it was a platformer with occasional bursts of speed, rather than a high-risk-of-crashing/falling racing game with occasional bursts of platforming.

They seem to have also banished anyone who isn't Sonic, Eggman, Tails, or Amy to dimension X or something. Part of why I liked the older games was the various playable characters (optional or otherwise ), and character interactions.

...That said, I really really enjoyed Colors and Generations 3DS.

[Salamander]

All I ask is for the story to be developed enough that real significant events happen between the intro and the final boss, and that gameplay of some kind exists outside of the zones themselves - the game shouldn't just be a glorified level select screen, in other words. The handheld games, which are all I've played in the past few years, got good at this, and then turned around and got bad at this again.

[Riverstone]

Then you must see something I can't, but I don't really see anything of depth at all. I don't mind it as I said it is fun, but I want to do more than just mindlessly run through a level for cheap thrills, I mean can you imagine a Mario game consisting of just running and jumping on square blocks and nothing more or Zelda game with just the Master Sword as your only item? It'd be pretty boring right? That's kind of what Sonic is now, nothing but running, and more running.

This is my opinion really as well. The main problem being that running is actually quite plain and it doesn't really allow for anything else to be satisfying.

Generations: You run in straight, flat ground. To me, even the slower -platformy parts felt slippery and very floaty. Almost as if the wind was pushing you. jogging around the open spaces was hard as sonic kinda forced you to go into a straight line once speed built up. and it builds up quickly too.

Sonic adventure, you ran on ground that curved around on different angles. Massive hills that curve down and up and left and right. Around poles, little islands, all around the sand. All blended into 'jogging' around slower part of the levels. I really like how the top speed in those games were more rewarding and not the basis of the entire game.

In simple terms, In the adventure formula, it wasn't just running. It was a majority of jogging with some extreme running at selected parts. And it allowed for simple maneuvering and a natural flow of movement. It was satisfying being in complete control and tracking across every bit of varied terrain.

Who else wants them to bring back 'Jogging' sonic. Full speed sonic should be provided at certain sections.

Boost and quick step can go die in a hole. That's your hollow point right there

Edited February 28, 2012 by Riverstone

[Chaos Warp]

However, they're really playing it more safe than they should be. It's like they're so scared of the fanbase and reviewers, that it actually hurts the quality of the games. More characters would add more playtime and replayability, but better stories would round the games off more. I would have enjoyed Generations even more than I did if the story wasn't so... pointless; it didn't even have much of the goofball humour and stuff that Colours had that made it it's own, even if it's divisive in the fanbase. A more interesting story or at least more humour if the story IS basic would have rounded it off, I think. Playing it less safe with the missions and stuff may have helped too.

THIS. Even though I enjoy Generations a LOT.

I feel that they are, like you said, so scared of getting a bad review because the reviewers won't stop bashing Sonic (just because it's cool), that they will settle for making an 8.0-8.5 game, instead of taking some risks, and possibly getting a 9.0, 9.5, etc. In a nutshell, they are making great games, but the play-it-safe approach is holding them back from making amazing ones.

Then you must see something I can't, but I don't really see anything of depth at all. I don't mind it as I said it is fun, but I want to do more than just mindlessly run through a level for cheap thrills, I mean can you imagine a Mario game consisting of just running and jumping on square blocks and nothing more or Zelda game with just the Master Sword as your only item? It'd be pretty boring right? That's kind of what Sonic is now, nothing but running, and more running.

"running, running and more running".

That sounds like Unleashed day, but not Generations Modern. Intricate platforming has no depth? Sure I'd love more level gimmicks and momentum and stuff, but you can't really say that Generations Modern is "running, running and more running", and has no depth.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Chaos Walker]

Um.... I....

I started playing Sonic games coming out of the Genesis era, and entering the Dreamcast. From that perspective, all I can say is that it's starting to seem that they are AFRAID to make Sonic slower, as though they fear the response they would get from a game that doesn't use Sonic for going as fast as possible. By no means do I want a Sonic labyrinth, but what's going on right now can only "improve" so much. It's headed in a different directions than the classics, and can only be good in a different way, and definetly not better.

And story.... well as long as it's not like 06, whatever. Storybook, Unleashed and Colors weren't that bad, and while I'd prefer something a little stronger like Adventure 2, that's not the most important issue. Still, they tried out some random stuff, and it was rather welcome to me.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Chaos Walker

[Kuzu]

"running, running and more running".

That sounds like Unleashed day, but not Generations Modern. Intricate platforming has no depth? Sure I'd love more level gimmicks and momentum and stuff, but you can't really say that Generations Modern is "running, running and more running", and has no depth.

If floating square blocks constitutes as depth to you, then we have a completely different meaning of the word.

I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful, but its 2012 and the best they can do is the most generic form of platforming? I expect shit like that in the 80's not a game with Modern standards, so you can kind of see my distaste for Generations' excuse for platforming.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Balding Spider]

Gameplay wise for the most part yes. While I do enjoy the gameplay we have now they really need to fix up some areas. I'd like to see more of the old power ups come into play again I mean let me play with the hang glider and Tornado again (Sonic adventure 1 style not unleashed). And either stop the extended chase sequences or turn it into a mini-boss so we can actually fight whatever the hell is trying to kill us. It's been an issue for me since Unleashed the interceptor is chasing me and all I can do is run and dodge, exciting at first but when you realize that's all you can do, it really sucks.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Balding Spider

[Diogenes]

That sounds like Unleashed day, but not Generations Modern. Intricate platforming has no depth?

[Soniman]

If floating square blocks constitutes as depth to you, then we have a completely different meaning of the word.

I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful, but its 2012 and the best they can do is the most generic form of platforming? I expect shit like that in the 80's not a game with Modern standards, so you can kind of see my distaste for Generations' excuse for platforming.

You stated that all you do in the modern gameplay is constantly run, obviously thats not the case due to the fair supply of platforming, intricate or not.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Groosenator032

[Diogenes]

Try to see through the hyperbole to the point he's trying to make.

[Kuzu]

You stated that all you do in the modern gameplay is constantly run, obviously thats not the case due to the fair supply of platforming, intricate or not.

Ok, now you're being overly literal. Like Dio said, it was a Hyperbole, but since I need to explain myself: I want more depth in my stages Ok? Square Blocks and Running forwards are not my ideas of depth and shouldn't be the standard the series is held too, especially when we've seen much more interesting level design in the past.

[Pawn]

Ok, now you're being overly literal. Like Dio said, it was a Hyperbole, but since I need to explain myself: I want more depth in my stages Ok? Square Blocks and Running forwards are not my ideas of depth and shouldn't be the standard the series is held too, especially when we've seen much more interesting level design in the past.

Exactly. Seriously, anyone can stack a bunch of blocks together. I often see people write 'it's got platforming' these days as though platforming automatically makes something good, whether well-designed or not. Sonic was more than just a fast Mario clone.

[Chaos Warp]

Ok, now you're being overly literal. Like Dio said, it was a Hyperbole, but since I need to explain myself: I want more depth in my stages Ok? Square Blocks and Running forwards are not my ideas of depth and shouldn't be the standard the series is held too, especially when we've seen much more interesting level design in the past.

Well, Sonic games have always had a lot of running forwards. When you play as a speedy character, which direction are you most likely to go? Forward. You did a lot of it in the Classics. The square blocks......yeah, I want more momentum-based platforming too, but I don't think the traditional platforming is in any way bad, just more tradtional then the slope-y Classic Sonic fare.

And honestly, the most important thing to me is fun, and I find this gameplay very fun, so I'm happy with it. Not to say we can't improve a lot, but still.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Chaos Warp]

Sonic was more than just a fast Mario clone.

More traditional platforming does not mean Mario-styled platforming. Mario's platforming is more intricate, and relys on patience a lot more. Sonic platforming has to be designed more around doing the platforming fast, and is less intricate (While still intricate).

Edited February 28, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Scar]

I'm not really looking for "depth", though.

Level design in Generations wasn't really intricate until Planet Wisp and that didn't even last very long. However, I will say that it was fun. I don't really know what "depth" means in terms of platformers, because there is little more than running and jumping involved and it really can't get any deeper than that. An increase in complexity and intricacy of platforming and level design doesn't not correlate to an increased depth.

Sonic games have never really been "Deep". In fact I'd argue that the simplicity really is what makes Sonic games what they are. Sure level designs got more and more complex and intricate, but the way you had to go through them remained simple and "Shallow", that is to say running and jumping.

I think the word that best describes it is "elegance". The classics were not deep. All you did was run and jump, that never changed at all. Flying and gliding added no depth, it was still running, jumping and pressing the jump button again when you were in midair. They were however, complex and elegantly designed.

Generations was fun and about as deep as the classics; that is to say, you had to run to a goal and jump on platforms. However it wasn't as elegant or as complex as the classics. It was a really rather weird combination of really, really rapid forward movement, and then really slow platforming. Or if you could abuse physics and the boost, constant rapid movement (which takes more skill than one might think). This was partially because Sonic had two operating speeds, there was rapid forward mode and slow movement mode. There was a phase between, but it didn't last long enough to be of any use.

It was fun, I found it fun as all hell actually. More fun than Sonic 1. That is until the final boss.

Whoever says that Sonic has become a Mario clone needs to examine the gameplay a little more. While, the gameplay has become less Sonic-y, it doesn't mean its become more Mario-y. Heck even Colours feels totally different to any Mario game I've laid my hands on. Even after all the changes, the two are still highly incomparable and they only ever are, because of some fabled rivalry that existed some years back that some people still talk about.

Sonic was more than just a Mario clone, and he still isn't a Mario clone.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Scar

[Chaos Warp]

I'm not really looking for "depth", though.

Level design in Generations wasn't really intricate until Planet Wisp and that didn't even last very long. However, I will say that it was fun. I don't really know what "depth" means in terms of platformers, because there is little more than running and jumping involved and it really can't get any deeper than that. An increase in complexity and intricacy of platforming and level design doesn't not correlate to an increased depth.

Sonic games have never really been "Deep". In fact I'd argue that the simplicity really is what makes Sonic games what they are. Sure level designs got more and more complex and intricate, but the way you had to go through them remained simple and "Shallow", that is to say running and jumping.

I think the word that best describes it is "elegance". The classics were not deep. All you did was run and jump, that never changed at all. Flying and gliding added no depth, it was still running, jumping and pressing the jump button again when you were in midair. They were however, complex and elegantly designed.

Generations was fun and about as deep as the classics; that is to say, you had to run to a goal and jump on platforms. However it wasn't as elegant or as complex as the classics. It was a really rather weird combination of really, really rapid forward movement, and then really slow platforming. Or if you could abuse physics and the boost, constant rapid movement (which takes more skill than one might think). This was partially because Sonic had two operating speeds, there was rapid forward mode and slow movement mode. There was a phase between, but it didn't last long enough to be of any use.

It was fun, I found it fun as all hell actually. More fun than Sonic 1. That is until the final boss.

I agree with all this, but you forgot the presence of rolling and momentum/inertia in your description of the classics. Rolling and momentum/inertia is where the depth was in the classics. But again, the biggest aspect for me (after fun) is the balance of speed and platforming, and Generations does that very well.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Diogenes]

No one's saying that running forward or traditional platforming are bad, the problem is that they're about all the Modern gameplay tries to accomplish, and that isn't enough. The series hasn't even scratched the surface of what it could be doing in 3D because it's only ever tried, and is seemingly content with, making use of the most simple aspects of the Genesis Sonics.

The classics were not deep. All you did was run and jump, that never changed at all.

*sigh*

[Scar]

*sigh*

Am I wrong? Oh yes there was rolling.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or undermine the classics at all here. I have a huge respect for them and believe them to undoubtedly be the best the franchise has ever seen. However, I don't think they're deep. Their brilliance stems from their simplicity. You can do a lot with very little and it was all fluidly designed. Maybe you misunderstood me, or I misunderstood the classics, but that's what I see.

A very simple platformer, with some very, very good physics and level design.

Maybe good physics and level design constitute depth to you, but it doesn't to me.

[Kuzu]

Well, Sonic games have always had a lot of running forwards. When you play as a speedy character, which direction are you most likely to go? Forward.You did a lot of it in the Classics.

And you did a lot more than that along the way if I remember correctly.

The square blocks......yeah, I want more momentum-based platforming too, but I don't think the traditional platforming is in any way bad, just more tradtional then the slope-y Classic Sonic fare.

But its too basic to be interesting, its like saying a plain white wall looks good compared to one with an actual design when it doesn't.

And honestly, the most important thing to me is fun, and I find this gameplay very fun, so I'm happy with it. Not to say we can't improve a lot, but still.

Anything can be fun, eating a pile of shit can be fun, does that mean its good? No, and that's exactly what the Modern games are, sure its fun but beyond that there's really nothing interesting about it, and I expect things to improve, not stay the same "because its "fun".

EDIT: Oh and before people jump down my throat, I'm not comparing Generations to a pile of shit, its just a metaphor.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Scar]

Anything can be fun, eating a pile of shit can be fun, does that mean its good? No, and that's exactly what the Modern games are, sure its fun but beyond that there's really nothing interesting about it, and I expect things to improve, not stay the same "because its "fun".

Don't like this attitude. Generations was fun and good. Yeah it wasn't perfect, nor was it the best, but it was fun and it was good. We're not saying "Sonic 06 was fun". If that were the case, then your statement would be valid. Your comparison with shit doesn't really help.

Nobody here wants everything to stay the same. Everybody with any sense will want improvement. Some just happened to have enjoyed Generations very much (and with good reason) and like the direction its going.

I myself like the direction, but only in the sense that its improving with each game. I happen to think that gradual improvement will eventually lead to the game we all want. They'll continue to expand upon and improve Generations level design until eventually they may get rid of the boost and quickstep and so on, deciding that they aren't necessary. Its not going to be immediate, but expecting it to be is foolish.

EDIT: Oh and before people jump down my throats, I'm not comparing Generations to a pile of shit, its just a metaphor.

Yeah, one that wasn't needed.

[Chaos Warp]

And you did a lot more than that along the way if I remember correctly.

Besides level gimmicks, jumping, and rolling, I don't remember much else.

But its too basic to be interesting, its like saying a plain white wall looks good compared to one with an actual design when it doesn't.

I would not compare Generations Modern to a "plain white wall".

Anything can be fun, eating a pile of shit can be fun, does that mean its good? No, and that's exactly what the Modern games are, sure its fun but beyond that there's really nothing interesting about it, and I expect things to improve, not stay the same "because its "fun".

Never said I did not want improvement. There is nothing, at all, interesting about well designed platforming and crazy speed to you? Not trying to be an ass, just asking.

[Diogenes]

There's better platforming in other games and near-constant high speed numbs you to it.

[Chaos Warp]

There's better platforming in other games and near-constant high speed numbs you to it.

I would not call most of Generation's Modern levels, "constant high speed".