Should there be any more Storybook games?

[Diogenes]

Not by swinging a sword around.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Diogenes

[Gregzilla]

1st: So shooting humans didn't feel out of place? Hmm.

I didn't even mention the shooting of humans, but if you wanna keep bringing that up, then yes, that would qualify as an offensive gimmick too. Point is, games should often try new things, but within reason. Keep Sonic's core gameplay intact, and use gimmicks if they enhance that gameplay. If they completely change the playstyle, that's going too far. Overall I'm not completely against the idea of Sonic exploring storybook worlds, but the 2 Storybook games that already exist haven't helped the case that it's a good idea for the series.

[Kuzu]

Not by swinging a sword around.

Does it really matter? That's like getting mad at Mario because he go karts with Bowser every other week,

[Blacklightning]

Does it really matter? That's like getting mad at Mario because he go karts with Bowser every other week,

What on Earth are you talking about? A Kart racing spinoff is a perfectly normal thing to expect from a platformer, especially ones so popular as Mario and Sonic. Hell, Sonic already had one lately and not a single damn soul had a problem with it (well, save for a select bunch of retards that somehow couldn't comprehend the concept of Sonic using a car in a racing game based around vehicles). On the other hand, you couldn't really justify handing Mario a a sword and sending him on a rail slasher, especially one as poorly made as Black Knight, because it simply does not fit with any of the existing mechanics from either franchise even if not for lack of trying.

What puzzles me is why they felt the need to give him a sword in the first place, theming be damned, when a simple combination of Homing Attack and slide/roll would've done the job a hell of a lot better. Hell, it's not like anyone considered giving Sonic a Tulwar come the time of Secret Rings, and it worked perfectly fine without one.

[Kuzu]

What on Earth are you talking about? A Kart racing spinoff is a perfectly normal thing to expect from a platformer, especially ones so popular as Mario and Sonic. Hell, Sonic already had one lately and not a single damn soul had a problem with it (well, save for a select bunch of retards that somehow couldn't comprehend the concept of Sonic using a car in a racing game based around vehicles). On the other hand, you couldn't really justify handing Mario a a sword and sending him on a rail slasher, especially one as poorly made as Black Knight, because it simply does not fit with any of the existing mechanics from either franchise even if not for lack of trying.

How can Kart Racing be considered good when, like you said, goes against what both franchises are about? Last I checked, racing and platformers are two completely different genres, so how is one better than the other?

Edited February 29, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Blacklightning]

How can Kart Racing be considered good when, like you said, goes against what both franchises are about? Last I checked, racing and platformers are two completely different genres, so how is one better than the other?

I wouldn't say that - Sonic is about speed, and Kart games are about getting from one point to another faster than everyone else, so Sonic has a pretty big leg up in that regard. Also, like I said, at least one Karting game for a platforming franchise, regardless of the reasoning, has been considered pretty normal for the genre ever since Mario started the trend himself. And it helps that they're not oustandingly shit games while they're at it.

Black Knight fills none of this criteria, and they even had the benefit of reusing the exact same engine and the majority of the existing moves from Secret Rings while they were at it. And it takes a very special kind of failure to somehow defeat existing Sonic gameplay whilst still using it at the same time - that's a throne contested only by Shadow the fuckin' Hedgehog and his arbitary insistence on employing guns in an environment that just wasn't compatible with them, exactly the same as how a slasher moveset just isn't compatible with a rail platformer that expects you to keep moving.

My point, really, is that your comparison is just extrememly silly for whatever you're expecting to prove... come to think of it, what is that, exactly? That we're expected to accept a crappily pasted-on slashing gimmick that just isn't compatible with the playstyle? That we're expected to accept genre roulettes, period? That we shouldn't care about the gameplay because the writing's sound? Honestly, your main point is so vauge that I'm really not sure what kind of message I'm supposed to derive from it.

[Kuzu]

My point, really, is that your comparison is just extrememly silly for whatever you're expecting to prove... come to think of it, what is that, exactly? That we're expected to accept a crappily pasted-on slashing gimmick that just isn't compatible with the playstyle? That we're expected to accept genre roulettes, period? That we shouldn't care about the gameplay because the writing's sound? Honestly, your main point is so vauge that I'm really not sure what kind of message I'm supposed to derive from it.

The main point is, why should the fact that the gameplay doesn't fit be a problem in the first place? Isn't that the entire point of a spin off to begin with to have an existing series explore other possibilities without mocking up the main series? I could understand if Black Knight was treated as a mainstream game, but its not, its a side game and treated as such so I fail to see why experimenting with a gimmick is suddenly considered shit. I understand Black Knight itself was bad and poorly made, but I see no problem with the concept itself as you seem to be implying.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Diogenes]

A spinoff gives them more leeway with the concepts, but not infinite leeway. It still needs to respect the nature of the series, its setting, and its characters.

[Kuzu]

A spinoff gives them more leeway with the concepts, but not infinite leeway. It still needs to respect the nature of the series, its setting, and its characters.

Ok, so how does using a sword go completely against the concept of the series? The series is know for its speed, and edginess I don't see how using a sword changes that.

And I see Cheese is typing, so I shall wait.

[Cyrus]

I didn't even mention the shooting of humans, but if you wanna keep bringing that up, then yes, that would qualify as an offensive gimmick too. Point is, games should often try new things, but within reason. Keep Sonic's core gameplay intact, and use gimmicks if they enhance that gameplay. If they completely change the playstyle, that's going too far. Overall I'm not completely against the idea of Sonic exploring storybook worlds, but the 2 Storybook games that already exist haven't helped the case that it's a good idea for the series.

Shadow the Hedgehog is my favorite spin-off title. That's my opinion, so please, oh please, don't bash me for liking it, because I know 80% of the Sonic fan base look down upon it.

[Blacklightning]

The main point is, why should the fact that the gameplay doesn't fit be a problem in the first place?

The fact that they re-used the Secret Rings engine, and consequently, every facet of its handling, moveset and upgrading mechanics, at the very least implies the need for a gimmick that will fit right in with the standards of the original game - which when you think about it, really wasn't that much different from your very basic Sonic standards, with the exception that that bad handling was considered normal at the start of the game. They did not make a gimmick that worked very well with the engine used, so I don't see any problem with criticising them for using a gimmick that clearly mismatched with the rest of the game and then had generic waggle thrown on top of that to ensure it was often badly timed and painful to play. That's not an approach you can really defend, spinoff or no.

Also gonna have to mirror Dio here in that yes, a spinoff does have to be in some way grounded in the universe and standards of the series that spawned it. If it was just "what if Sonic was King Arthur" and left it at that, hey, people would dig it. Any more outlandish than that and it starts getting pretty damn hard to justify unless you do a really fucking good job of it - this was the case with Chronicles. this was the case with Black Knight, this was the case with Battle (although people had less of a problem here because Battle at least functioned for what it was trying to accomplish, even if repetitively) and this was the case for every Riders game, too (the less said about its painful decent into crap after the first game, the better).

And because this popped up while typing, I'll address this too:

Ok, so how does using a sword go completely against the concept of the series? The series is know for its speed, and edginess I don't see how using a sword changes that.

That's funny, I don't remember brawling in a Sonic game being considered normal at any point in the franchise's history. You'll have to point that one out to me.

[Diogenes]

Ok, so how does using a sword go completely against the concept of the series? The series is know for its speed, and edginess I don't see how using a sword changes that.

[Chili Dawg]

I actually really really really like Black Knight in spite of, or perhaps because of its utter crappiness, but even I think the sword was stupid. At the time I was a bit of a fanboy so I defended it, but really, it was just... dumb. It didn't really do anything Sonic couldn't already if they just got a bit more creative with his spinning and jumping.

Do I want more storybook games? Maybe. Not really something I'm asking for, but I won't complain if another one gets announced.

[DC111]

Sonic using a sword, arguably, could be considered a bit out of character (o_o) especially if his remark in ShTH is anything to go by, because he says he wouldn't be caught dead using those things (weapons) and indeed doesn't really seem like the type of guy to be fond of weapons. But, since this is a gameplay-based issue and not a writing issue, I don't really think it's a huge deal or anything in terms of character. inb4; Maybe that sounds like an excuse to undermine this boo-boo, but honestly for all the good characterization Black Knight gave us I don't really care.

[#AR]

I'd definitely be game for another Storybook game. But just like other people said, less on-rails and preferrably no weapons.

If there IS ever another one, I hope it's Greek Mythology. Sonic owning Zeus. Epic.

[Yoko/葉子]

Now if I were to have my dream storybook game (or should I say mythology) would be an Egypt adaptation with an alternate Set (the namesake of a certain Yugioh character) as an enemy. Why this? I share a birthday with the dessert god in question.

[Tails spin]

Now if I were to have my dream storybook game (or should I say mythology) would be an Egypt adaptation with an alternate Set (the namesake of a certain Yugioh character) as an enemy. Why this? I share a birthday with the dessert god in question.

Yeah, lets not bring back Atem, especially into sonic's world

[Yoko/葉子]

Yeah, lets not bring back Atem, especially into sonic's world

[Tails spin]

You mean like how Solaris from 06 had similarities to RA/Atem? (Sun god, Phoenix traits, I mean)

Not to go off topic but Atem has nothing to do with the phoenix, or egyptian mythology. he was a just fictional pharoah that took traits from egyptian mythology. Plus I think Secret Rings took the basics out of Arabian night so having egyptian myths would fell like a repeat.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Team Chaotix

[Coral]

Hmm. I don't know any kind of tale that would fit Sonic that well that has already been done. Maybe something Greek? Sonic fighting a Minotaur or choosing a side in the Trojan War sounds pretty cool I guess.

[Yoko/葉子]

Hmm. I don't know any kind of tale that would fit Sonic that well that has already been done. Maybe something Greek? Sonic fighting a Minotaur or choosing a side in the Trojan War sounds pretty cool I guess.

Technically, Greek references were already made in the main series with Chaos and the two Gaias.

This may sound odd for a Storybook/ ancient story/myth game, but I think an adaptation of the Titan War (Greek) or Ragnarok (Norse) would be unique.

Omega could be Ares (destruction)

Eggman/Robotnik would be Hephaestus (mechanics) or Odin (overlord)

Shadow could be Hades (they are very dark)

Blaze may be Sol (Norse sun goddess)

Amy's obsession with Sonic may lead to her being a hilariously bad Aphrodite or Freya.

[Salamander]

Why adapt an old story? Why not use the combination of Sonic and the story/myth to create a new story that's surprising from both approaches? Since the Sonic characters aren't the exact analogues of the characters they take the roles of, the difference may produce a new plot. In general I think the Storybook games should exist to excuse unfamiliar settings and produce plots that otherwise wouldn't occur in the Sonic universe.