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DaddlerTheDalek

Ken Penders Scrapped Sonic Movie

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Timberwolf, it sounds to me more you're letting rampant fanaticism cloud your ears, otherwise you'd have gotten the point by now.

The character's origin has no bearing on whether the film would be good or not. How to Train Your Dragon is based on a series of books, though outside of the States they're virtually unknown. Kung-Fu Panda is based on nothing, and so is most of Pixar's work.

Here's what would happen with a GOOD Sonic film with Archie elements.

Many fans would cry like babies and refuse to see, BUT-

1- It would have Sonic as the main character and driving point.

At this point, you can count thousands of kids and Sonic fans.

2- The fact Archie has a thousand and eight-hundred characters DOESN'T MEAN THEY ALL HAVE TO APPEAR. I mean seriously? Scar, Timberwolf, have you been hit with the silly disease? Were all the 23456 mutants from the MArvel Continuity on the X-Men films?

3- Therefore, all they'd need to do would be keep the focus on what's most recognizable- Sonic, Eggman, and the games' world, as it's what's most recognizable. To the eyes of the general audience- you know, the ones who'll buy the tickets, the ones who'll actually make or break the film in critical and financial terms- any character past Sonic and Eggman is an extra, be it from the games or comics; so at this point, as long as no character is made too obnoxious and spotlight-stealing, they're all fine to use.

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But, hey, apparently that's too hard a concept for people to understand.

Probably because it's a blatant falsehood.

Listen to this silliness:

Far better to limit it to the game characters and having more mass appeal than bringing in characters from a comic virtually unknown outside North America for no real reason.

Mass appeal? Are you joking? The game continuity is FAR less popular than you make it out to be. It is, by all means, a niche thing, a cult favorite if you will. You won't get any more "mass appeal" out of Rouge than you will out of Bunnie, Tekno, or even Cosmo. If your name isn't Sonic (the hero), Tails (the sidekick), or Robotnik (the villain), you are unknown to the general public, which as KKM said, are going to be the ones who will make or break your movie.

The point in using characters from *insert continuity here* would be because their personality quirks fit the story you're trying to tell. You don't include or exclude characters just because they came from *insert continuity here*. You do it based on their relevancy to the narrative you want to tell.

Edited by Aquaslash

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The point in using characters from *insert continuity here* would be because their personality quirks fit the story you're trying to tell. You don't include or exclude characters just because they came from *insert continuity here*. You do it based on their relevancy to the narrative you want to tell.
From the perspective of an idealistic writer, maybe. From the perspective of trying to make money...you really do need to consider how people, fans, are going to react. The associations they have with the characters, regardless of whether or not they're entirely logical.

And if we're just going to completely disregard that, why the fuck are we making a movie out of this series anyway?

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From the perspective of an idealistic writer, maybe. From the perspective of trying to make money...you really do need to consider how people, fans, are going to react. The associations they have with the characters, regardless of whether or not they're entirely logical.

And if we're just going to completely disregard that, why the fuck are we making a movie out of this series anyway?

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If I would make a Sonic Movie. I would let some SatAM/Archie & Fleetway Characters make cameos.

Now, that's acceptable, so long as it's just background cameos with no impact on the story. Making them even semi-important characters, as Penders evidently wanted and as several posters here seem to believe is a good idea, would not.

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Ken's comments from 2002

Ken Penders wrote:The main cast of characters consist of Sonic, Sally, Tails, Bunnie, Uncle Chuck, Jules, Bernie, King & Queen Acorn, Knuckles, Julie-Su, Espio, Mighty, Vector, Locke, Lara-Le, Wynmacher, Snively, Crabmeat,
E-102
and Dr. Robotnik. As only the main plotline has been worked out, it remains to be seen what other characters will have speaking roles. At present, I envision a number of characters seen in various incarnations of the games, comic book and animated series will be utilized as "extras" throughout.

Wait.. E102?! As in.. Gamma?! Gamma was going to be in this?! While Gamma's story is great and seeing a cinematic take on it would work well, I wonder if Penders was actually going to use Gamma's story from the games or change it and completely wreck the character.

Also lol at Crabmeat. Looking at the dark tone of these screenshots Crabmeat so wouldn't of fit. I mean look at that scene where Cyborg Snively tugs on Cyborg Koala's scarf whilst Robotnik watches and just imagine Crabmeat walking onto that scene.
Edited by Nattala

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@ Scar

You have the same problems with making a film based in the game continuity as you do with making one in the comic continuity. There are too many characters in both.

The general populace knows Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik, and maybe Shadow. Characters like Amy, the Chaotix, Rouge, Cream? Only hardcore fans know about them, and the rest of the gaming community slags them all off as "Sonic's shitty friends". You'd have to spend the same amount of time making Amy interesting to the mainstream populace that you would for Sally.

Well actually, small kids do know Amy, they definitely recognize her. It's just that they don't know her name and instead call her "Sonic's girlfriend". But small kids don't know Knuckles or Shadow's name either. Not that it relates to this never created film anyway.

Edited by Ming Ming Love

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Not sure what's funnier; Ken Penders idea to pitch a movie idea with his bad art or rampant fans debating on what or what is not a good idea based on nothing but pessimistic viewpoints or the delusion games based movies ever had to make sense in any shape or form.

Look at the video game based movies. I can only think of literally 2 that actually has to do with the game series main plots (Final Fantasy: Advent Children and Resident Evil: Degeneration).

And the others? Well, let's just say Hollywood could care a less about what fans want. But for the sake of losing appeal they throw in some related characters for the fans to simmer down a bit.So i'm not exactly seeing what the hot debate is all about here.

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I'm not sure what your hang-up with the conversation is. Movies have to make sense in order to be good movies; this is whether or not they're based on game franchises.

Furthermore, It's considerably rare, and one might say batshit insane, for fans of a franchise to debate hypothetically about a film adaptation without the context of it being done right regardless of the Hollywood politics that would probably be involved in such a thing. What is the point of such a discussion otherwise? What person in the world who isn't a director known for banking off of crap movies seriously wants to make a bad movie if they have an honest interest in the industry?

Ironically, your post sounds just as pessimisstic and additionally patronizing as you claim anyone else's are. "Look at these silly fans debating about a good movie. How droll; Luckily, I know better. Game movies are never good, and Hollywood doesn't care about making good material either. I should remind them of that."

I sincerely ask: What in the world do you think we should be discussing since you seem confused about why Sonic fans would even be discussing what might make a bang-up theatrical Sonic film? Take into account that- if we're going to start being brutally honest now- then this conversation shouldn't even be taking place considering there's a better chance of Cthulu rising up and inseminating my dog with devil spawn than of a Sonic movie ever being made.

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I'm not sure what your hang-up with the conversation is. Movies have to make sense in order to be good movies; this is whether or not they're based on game franchises.

Furthermore, It's considerably rare, and one might say batshit insane, for fans of a franchise to debate hypothetically about a film adaptation without the context of it being done right regardless of the Hollywood politics that would probably be involved in such a thing. What is the point of such a discussion otherwise? What person in the world who isn't a director known for banking off of crap movies seriously wants to make a bad movie if they have an honest interest in the industry?

Ironically, your post sounds just as pessimisstic and additionally patronizing as you claim anyone else's are. "Look at these silly fans debating about a good movie. How droll; Luckily, I know better. Game movies are never good, and Hollywood doesn't care about making good material either. I should remind them of that."

I sincerely ask: What in the world do you think we should be discussing since you seem confused about why Sonic fans would even be discussing what might make a bang-up theatrical Sonic film? Take into account that- if we're going to start being brutally honest now- then this conversation shouldn't even be taking place considering there's a better chance of Cthulu rising up and inseminating my dog with devil spawn than of a Sonic movie ever being made.

I like when people take things of what I say completely out of context and make assumptions. Lovely rant though, especially liked the cthulu rising up and inseminating your dog with devil spawn thing. But I'm assuming who it was directed to since you did not clarify.

Edited by Dreamhog

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I like when people take things of what I say completely out of context and make assumptions. Lovely rant though, especially liked the cthulu rising up and inseminating your dog with devil spawn thing. But I'm assuming who it was directed to since you did not clarify.

My attention is completely directed at you now.

Also, I don't think what I posted was unreasonable. Your implied inquiry at the end of your first post was that you didn't understand why we were debating with each other over this tangent, literally stated as:

"So I'm not exactly seeing what all the hot debate is all about here."

This proceeds the following statements:

"...rampant fans debating on what or what is not a good idea based on nothing but pessimistic viewpoints or the delusion game based movies ever had to make sense in any shape and form."

"Let's just say Hollywood could care less about what fans want."

(I want to remark on these for a second: You outright say the participants hold the delusion of believing game movies ever had to make sense. This is a patronizing statement as it implies that you know better than the "rampant fans" because you don't hold the delusion. The second statement makes a sweeping generalization that no one in Hollywood cares about delivering films that would satisfy fans of film adaptations, which is a certainly pessimistic viewpoint. I also think it's false: Marvel films and Nolan's Batman films have done a bang-up job and delivering good fan fodder without sacrificing mass appeal, but that's another conversation for another time.)

Despite the Cthulu comment- which I'm glad you liked- note that I'm being sincere when I talk to you, so fittingly I don't appreciate the response that didn't really answer anything I had to say. If I'm wrong, then explain why. Can you also answer this for me: What is your issue with the participating Sonic fans in this topic discussing a Sonic film, because that's really the only thing I've seen in this topic.

Edited by Nepenthe

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My attention is completely directed at you now.

OH MY!

You don't think your post was unreasonable yet you question why I said the things I stated? So why would I need to answer things if you got it all figured out?

I COULD ANSWER. But you seem to have your own take on the quotes that you have obviously missed the point of. So hey, why bother?

Your movie choices is stepping into comic territory. Let's stay focused on the movies based on video games.

I also don't think you know what "Let's just say" means.

You can be venomous or sincere with me. It'd make no difference, so do not act like you're doing me any favors and then making it sound like you're showing me some sort of mercy via text.

your answer: I don't think you know what I first said in my entire input. 'I don't know what's funnier". You know what that means? I'm amused, i'm entertained. What are you not getting?

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@ Dreamhog: Let it be known that I'm not being merciful or doing you any favors necessarily for your sake. I'm attempting to be level-headed and clear because that's how I try my best to act on these forums.

Regardless, you seem offended by the mere fact that I even bothered taking issue with your post or interpreting it in my own way which- as I've insisted- you're totally free to correct me on regardless of my preconceived notions, because that would literally be the only way we'd gain any sort of ground. You also didn't answer the question I repeated above, then assumed I don't know what the phrase "let's just say" means. e.g., this is going nowhere fast, so I'm up for dropping this tangent if you are.

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@Nepenthe: Let it be known, that I'll never take anything seriously the way you do.

I seem offended? I'm not. I'm ANNOYED you're assuming things that are not there. Because that's...well, annoying,

So you refuse to let this go unless I do? I applaud the attempt of maturity.

Edited by Dreamhog

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What's the point of getting involved in a discussion just to say that it's not worthy of discussion since we don't know anything about film adaptation (which is a blatant lie)?

Arguments.

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Arguments.

Please Guys. Keep on Topic.

Now, that's acceptable, so long as it's just background cameos with no impact on the story. Making them even semi-important characters, as Penders evidently wanted and as several posters here seem to believe is a good idea, would not.

I would even let some Scrapped Characters like Tiara & Honey appear, as cameos of course.

Edited by DaddlerTheDalek

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While I think the best you could do is sneak alternate universe characters in as crowd fodder only visible for a few frames, I'm fairly confident that if SoJ were strictly involved with the production, then they'd limit such cameos to only game-centric characters. Although, forget about Archie; I'd want Sarah from the OAV to have a quick appearance, probably jeering at an Eggman announcement. Her nightmares have not gone away.

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While I think the best you could do is sneak alternate universe characters in as crowd fodder only visible for a few frames, I'm fairly confident that if SoJ were strictly involved with the production, then they'd limit such cameos to only game-centric characters. Although, forget about Archie; I'd want Sarah from the OAV to have a quick appearance, probably jeering at an Eggman announcement. Her nightmares have not gone away.

Sarah the Catgirl? lol! That could be Funny! biggrin.png

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