Why is the Sonic Cycle reviled?

[Nepenthe]

If you're going to put down Time Eater, then you should put the Werehog in to, right? =o

Not really. The Werehog is a "new character" in the same way that Super Sonic is a "new character"; that is to say, not at all.

I had a relook at the cycle, there is one part that is still true and that's the first part of the cycle. You can't really deny that can you? XP

Sure, I'll concede on that. But take into account that it is one of the least profound parts of the Cycle anyway. It's about as significant a "prediction" as saying "When Sega announces a new Sonic game, Sonic will be in it."

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Not really. The Werehog is a "new character" in the same way that Super Sonic is a "new character"; that is to say, not at all.

But Time Eater is controlled by Classic and Modern Eggman, it didn't have a mind of its own during the game. So Time Eater isn't really a "new character" or if it is, it's a new character as much as Sonic the Werehog.

[Nepenthe]

Since when does a character have to be sentient to be a character?

I mean, Tails did not somehow stop being a character for one cut scene in Colors when Eggman used the mind control ray on him. Gamma and Metal Sonic didn't suddenly earn status as characters when they actually gained awareness beyond Eggman's control.

But more importantly, how did you relate that to the fact that Sonic is literally the same guy regardless of whatever shape he takes? =/

[ArtFenix]

The thing is that Sonic Cycle is very individual thing. I think it still exist to some extent. For example, I was hyped about Colors and Generations stories, but they both end up being incredibly disappointing and just bad. I epected Colors to have more of a 3D gameplay too..

However the gameplay is definitely solid now and there are a lot of people who don't give a damn about stories or just not that interested in them. For these people the cycle should not exist at all.

Personally, I lso don't like it when somebody brings up this Sonic cycle because the games look good now and the gameplay is very good too. There are still problems like Sonic-only stuff and weak bland stories, but it's all individual.

[Kiah]

I think it's the fact people just want to throw it around like a rag doll whenever something new and Sonic related comes up. Colors and Generations had their fair share of Sonic Cycle going around, albeit not a lot I think.

Another reason is because it's not even too relevant anymore, yet people still use it anyway. It's like they just want to troll or want to jump on the "Sonic Sucks" Bandwagon.

Its annoying, irrelevant, outdated, and people using it think they're being cool and hip when really they're just bandwagoning sheep.

Yeah, it's like hating on Sonic is the cool thing to do. It's rather annoying as it's like people refuse to see the good that the Sonic series has to offer and already has done and holding on forever to its mistakes and flaws by referring to the Sonic cycle everytime you turn around.

Oh well. I'm not saying anything new or different here when I say the Sonic cycle sucks and I wish it would go away already. I know that is beyond wishful thinking, though.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Sonikku_Kiah

[Voyant]

Sonic Cycle is a lot like The Constitution...you can twist and turn the focus of it around in order for it to validate someone beliefs... despite the fact that it CLEARLY says what its trying to say...and being wrong at the same time.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Since when does a character have to be sentient to be a character?

I mean, Tails did not somehow stop being a character for one cut scene in Colors when Eggman used the mind control ray on him. Gamma and Metal Sonic didn't suddenly earn status as characters when they actually gained awareness beyond Eggman's control.

But more importantly, how did you relate that to the fact that Sonic is literally the same guy regardless of whatever shape he takes? =/

The two Eggmans converted Time Eater in to a robot. Robots are not really characters unless they have a mind of its own and separate themselves from others. Throughout the game, Time Eater never had a mind of its own, therefore it's not a character.

Emerl, E-123, E-102, Gmerl and Metal Sonic...these robot creations have a mind of their own and can make their own decisions therefore they can be classified as characters. They even have the ability to have feelings.

Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Time Eater and most Egg bosses, these robots HAVE to be controlled by someone else, have no mind of their own, therefore these are not characters.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Ming Ming Love

[Wittymations]

The two Eggmans converted Time Eater in to a robot.

If it were self-automated, like say an Egg Pawn, it would be a character. The Time Eater was more or less a vehicle.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

If it were self-automated, like say an Egg Pawn, it would be a character. The Time Eater was more or less a vehicle.

Egg Pawn can be a character if it had a mind of its own. But these robots are programmed to target and kill one person only, Sonic. There wouldn't be an Egg Pawn that wouldn't want to hurt Sonic or protect him or have a different mind. Or be lazy and let Sonic do his thing. These robots can't even communicate with each other, if one of their kind passes by they wouldn't even know. They are almost mindless as a motion sensor in Battlefield.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Ming Ming Love

[-Mark-]

Because it's just an excuse for pessimists to unfairly bitch about a game that isn't even out yet, and has only ever been even partially true for one or two games at best (06, Unleashed).

Edited March 26, 2012 by -Mark-

[Wittymations]

Egg Pawn can be a character if it had a mind of its own.

I see where you're getting at. But I do think the Egg Pawn is a a group character. They do seem to have some sentience about them. Like, in Sonic Heroes you find a bunch of Egg Pawns running away from Metal Overlord while he's transforming rather than attacking Sonic and his friends or preserving Eggman. They're more worried about self preservation.

So, to me, Egg Pawns have somewhat of a character. If you see what I'm getting at.

[Johnny Boy]

Because the sonic cycle was broken 3 times back in 2010 with the releases of All Stars Racing, Colors, and (YMMV) Sonic 4. And when Generations came out a year later, the sonic cycle was nuked until nothing remained.

In other words bringing up the sonic cycle nowadays is like beating a dead horse. That's why people hate it so much. Plus the only games I can say the cycle truly applied too is 06 and black knight.

[Indigo Rush]

The other thing about the "Sonic Cycle" is that it isn't even a "cycle."

You start out with an announcement of a new Sonic game with great promise that Sonic is back, fans rejoice, etc...

Screenshots, videos and more details appear, showing problems and issues that make the game terrible...

Then it finishes when the game is released and the fans saying that they'll never be fooled again.

...okay, and how does "not being fooled again" cycle back into "immediate rejoicing of a new Sonic game?" And for that matter, does this really happen every time a new game is announced?

First of all, no. Every single Sonic game that's been announced since Unleashed, fans have picked apart every single detail saying that the game will be crap from the absolute get-go, detailing how it'll play with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, while another opposing group of fans say that it'll still be great with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever.

Then we get more details, videos and such, and then the fans over-analyze 3 seconds of #%@*$ing footage to hades and back, many of us scream at the slightest absurdities and demand that every variable is met, from level selections to physics to level design and so on and so on. We go to SEGA and ask them to fix certain things and they say that they'll do what they can, with it never being enough. While this is going on, the other side is yelling at the other side of the fanbase, telling them to stuff it and enjoy what we're getting without question, are hyping the game as the biggest title/year/whatever in Sonic's history, they're pre-ordering the game and so on. The community is at war.

And then, when the game is actually released, one of 4 things happen:

1) The game is subpar and the reception is mixed from "meh" to "not bad" (Secret Rings, Unleashed)

2) The game is actually pretty good or even excellent and most of the fanbase loves it with a vocal minority saying it's crap anyway (Generations, Colors)

3) The game is actually pretty good, but most of the fanbase hates it, while the rest of the gaming community are flabbergasted as to why (Sonic 4)

4) The game is actually pretty crappy and most of the fanbase hates it with a vocal minority saying it's perfect anyway (Sonic '06, SatBK)

And regardless of that previous variable is chosen (with the first 3 being the most common situation nowadays) the point is that, well, there is not one single determined outcome for every game or sequence of events. The only variable you CAN count on is that there will be opinions. Bloody, ugly and vocal opinions.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[Tornado]

You see:

First of all, no. Every single Sonic game that's been announced since Unleashed, fans have picked apart every single detail saying that the game will be crap from the absolute get-go, detailing how it'll play with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, while another opposing group of fans say that it'll still be great with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever.

Then we get more details, videos and such, and then the fans over-analyze 3 seconds of #%@*$ing footage to hades and back, many of us scream at the slightest absurdities and demand that every variable is met, from level selections to physics to level design and so on and so on. We go to SEGA and ask them to fix certain things and they say that they'll do what they can, with it never being enough. While this is going on, the other side is yelling at the other side of the fanbase, telling them to stuff it and enjoy what we're getting without question, are hyping the game as the biggest title/year/whatever in Sonic's history, they're pre-ordering the game and so on. The community is at war.

And then, when the game is actually released, one of 4 things happen:

1) The game is subpar and the reception is mixed from "meh" to "not bad" (Secret Rings, Unleashed)

2) The game is actually pretty good or even excellent and most of the fanbase loves it with a vocal minority saying it's crap anyway (Generations, Colors)

3) The game is actually pretty good, but most of the fanbase hates it, while the rest of the gaming community are flabbergasted as to why (Sonic 4)

4) The game is actually pretty crappy and most of the fanbase hates it with a vocal minority saying it's perfect anyway (Sonic '06, SatBK)

And regardless of that previous variable is chosen (with the first 3 being the most common situation nowadays) the point is that, well, there is not one single determined outcome for every game or sequence of events. The only variable you CAN count on is that there will be opinions. Bloody, ugly and vocal opinions.

Shit like this isn't any better, and I'm getting really damn tired of seeing it because "The Fandom is in Perpetual War" has basically replaced the Sonic Cycle as the quick and dirty response and is no less obnoxious.

Also, on a more personal note: We get it, Indigo. We don't need to see your personal interpretation of how rotten the fanbase is in every topic you post in,

Not really. The Werehog is a "new character" in the same way that Super Sonic is a "new character"; that is to say, not at all.

Chip, Yacker, and the Time Eater, and I honestly feel you'd have a hard time even proving significant portions of people worth bothering with actually claimed their respective games would suck based off of their presence alone.

Eh... I dunno. "Chip ruined Unleashed" was quite the thing not too long ago, and Werehog is given the same amount and type of hate usually reserved for new characters.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Tornado

[Diogenes]

3) The game is actually pretty good, but most of the fanbase hates it, while the rest of the gaming community are flabbergasted as to why (Sonic 4)

Wait what

[Indigo Rush]

Shit like this isn't any better, and I'm getting really damn tired of seeing it because "The Fandom is in Perpetual War" has basically replaced the Sonic Cycle and is no less obnoxious.

Eh, fair enough. Just wanted to give my (admittedly obnoxious) observation.

Also, on a more personal note: We get it, Indigo. We don't need to see your personal interpretation of how rotten the fanbase is in every topic you post in

Erm... I think you're really over-exaggerating when you say that I do this all the time. That one post I made was probably uncalled for, but I was under the impression that I praise this fanbase for its accomplishments and talent in spite of the vocal ones far more than I voice my personal gripes.

If I'm giving off the opposite vibe all the time, then I haven't noticed, and I'm sorry as it certainly wasn't my intention.

Wait what

My point exactly!

Werehog is given the same amount and type of hate usually reserved for new characters.

Also, pretty much this. It doesn't matter if the character is "still Sonic," if the gameplay is massively different and the physical form changes enough, its as good as a new character.

That, and he has his own Sonic Channel entry. (yes I'm aware that Super Sonic does, too )

Edited March 26, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[Yoko/葉子]

The cycle may or may not be, "cuz its what the cool people do." Haah! Oh so blinded to other people's perspectives are those that rave Sonic Cycle, mother of Hel, I may not have liked or ShTH or 06 as much as the others of the main series, but I NEVER hated them, they were 4/5 stars to me.

[Unknownlight]

Wait what

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I just hate that so called "Sonic Cycle"...

Edited March 27, 2012 by DaddlerTheDalek

[Speederino]

Because it hasn't been relevant in years, and is most commonly used by people who haven't played a single Sonic game since the Dreamcast days. It's applicable to Sonic 2006, but I could go through every other Sonic game and disprove the cycle in some way. Also, it completely disregards the handheld games.

[Nintendoga]

I find the Sonic Cycle hilarious, only cause of the truth it brings in most Sonic games (excluding Colors to an extent and Generations)

In fact, it's almost happened again with Sonic DL Episode 2,

Screenshots shown, hopes were raised, people begun to announce this as Sonic's next triumph, then more screens were shown, gameplay saw to be the same, hopes hit the ground again. The only thing that hasn't happened at this point is the "Massive dissapointment of the game after playing, and a majority proclaiming that they will never be fooled again. *Cue next 2D medicore game announcement*

Also, no more is the Lack of new friends is gone cause there are no new friends, and Reviewers slamming the game, when we all know Reviewers just LOVE 2D Sonic games. *Looks at Generations 3DS reviews that give the game 8/10's and 9/10's.

[sonfan1984]

In fact, it's almost happened again with Sonic DL Episode 2,

Screenshots shown, hopes were raised, people begun to announce this as Sonic's next triumph, then more screens were shown, gameplay saw to be the same, hopes hit the ground again. The only thing that hasn't happened at this point is the "Massive dissapointment of the game after playing, and a majority proclaiming that they will never be fooled again. *Cue next 2D medicore game announcement*

Really? I haven't seen anyone say that Ep2 will be Sonic's next triumph since the circumstances are different this time. Atleast not on this board. I see more people who is a bit disappointed with Ep 1 is being more cautious about Ep2 even before the screens and the trailer are shown.

Edited March 28, 2012 by sonfan1984

[Chili Dawg]

The cycle only applied to 06. By the time Unleashed rolled around most of us viewed it with cautious optimism at best, extreme skepticism at worst. No one was proclaiming it to be Sonic's triumphant return.

And then Colors and Generations came along and were for the most part looked at in the same way prerelease, though much more optimistic. But in the end people actually liked them.

So basically the cycle was outdated by the time it came into existence, and only applied to one game released before that. Arguably two (maybe Heroes), but it's mainly the story of Sonic 06.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Mermaid Man

[241]

I don't really think Sega would countinue with the Sonic Cycle if they would make the next mainstream Sonic game. I hope that adding additional playable characters in a mainstream Sonic game would stop the Sonic Cycle.

[sonfan1984]

I don't really think Sega would countinue with the Sonic Cycle if they would make the next mainstream Sonic game. I hope that adding additional playable characters in a mainstream Sonic game would stop the Sonic Cycle.

Sega never created the Sonic Cycle in the first place. If they add in additional playable characters then naysayers are going use the Sonic Cycle against them because Sonics friends falls in there.