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PlayStation 4 Discussion


Detective Shadzter

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I'm not that knowledgeable about how the game industry works, but don't the problems with used game sales originate with the stores who put these inane types of business transactions and middlemen into place? How is it the customers' fault if Gamestop isn't giving you any mint from used game sales? And how deeply do these sales theoretically cut into companies' revenue anyway? Is this really a financially-crippling issue?

I mean, even if it were, this blocking measure still sounds like a bullshit solution because customers don't ultimately seem to be the problem, and you'd do more harm to people who may simply be discovering a previously unknown but old game on the shelf or your loyal customer base who won't bother buying the console at all. I don't think Sony and Microsoft are that stupid, or at least I hope they aren't.

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I just never liked the idea of "no used games," because what if your console shits out on you and you need a new one? It's not guaranteed that if you send in the console for repair by Sony that the games will still work upon return? What if you choose to buy a new console altogether? All your backlog of games... gone

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Locking out used games is stupid.

What are players going to do when the system is out of production, and the prices for new copies become extremely high? They either fork over the money or they're fucked? Sounds like a dick move to me.

Edited by VisionaryBlur
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Wouldn't it also kill off the ability to rent a game to test the water before a potential purchase? Just seems a bit dramatic...

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I've been with Playstation my entire life, and you know what? Yes, I would call it quits if Sony did something as ludicrous as this for their next console; and I don't doubt that I'll be part of the majority. I'll just buy whatever console doesn't do its best to swindle me out of my money and stick with that for the console generation. No way in hell am I going to let something like this go through without any sort of protest.

Oh, and my physical money is more than a little bit more valuable to me than my trophy collection, so no, I don't think my "PSN identity" matters very much in that regard.

Edited by Ming Ming Love
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If the Xbox rumors are to be true, then they just digitally buy the games that have had their prices reduced.
Edited by Tornado
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I just never liked the idea of "no used games," because what if your console shits out on you and you need a new one? It's not guaranteed that if you send in the console for repair by Sony that the games will still work upon return? What if you choose to buy a new console altogether? All your backlog of games... gone

Edited by Ekaje
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Wouldn't it also kill off the ability to rent a game to test the water before a potential purchase?
Not if you're able to download a demo. Unless they're somehow stupid enough to remove those from the Orbis PSN equivalent too.
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Not if you're able to download a demo. Unless they're somehow stupid enough to remove those from the Orbis PSN equivalent too.

Not every game gets a demo though. And demos don't all have the same amount of content, so some people might still be unsure of whether a game is worth a purchase after just playing through a tutorial or the shortest, most basic level in the game.

It's not so much that they hurt first day sales, but ongoing sales. If anything is used, it is retailer policy to offer that used game over a new game in order to make more money. Not to mention, the fact that Used games barely differ from new games makes the temptation to buy used games easier for consumers. There is almost nothing different from the two, so Gamestop can pretty much get away with giving new copies without a cent going to the publishers.

I find this a little funny because this is the reverse of what most people get angry at GameStop for actually doing, letting employees open/play games, then selling them as new.

EDIT: Good god what happened to my post for a second there, one moment everything's normal, then submit edit, code everywhere.

Edited by Ekaje
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Well that just boils down to developers making shit demos then, doesn't it? I think the solution to that is pretty obvious.

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Here's what I also think though, it's just a rumor. This stuff may not be even true. So I'm holding firm on to that now. Sony can't afford to do this because they will be pretty much out of the console business if this happens. They are smarter than this (I think). Hardly anybody, ANYBODY will buy this console no matter how powerful and awesome it is with these ridiculous restrictions on it. The Vita's restrictions are silly enough but this is way over the top.

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I actually hope this is true for both the PS4 and 720, so it leads to the day that the console market crashes due to their shitty fucking business decisions.

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Here's what I also think though, it's just a rumor. This stuff may not be even true. So I'm holding firm on to that now. Sony can't afford to do this because they will be pretty much out of the console business if this happens. They are smarter than this (I think). Hardly anybody, ANYBODY will buy this console no matter how powerful and awesome it is with these ridiculous restrictions on it. The Vita's restrictions are silly enough but this is way over the top.

I don't think many of us think this is really going to happen on the next Xbox or Playstation, we're just discussing why we think it would/wouldn't be a bad idea.

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I actually hope this is true for both the PS4 and 720, so it leads to the day that the console market crashes due to their shitty fucking business decisions.

And that would be a good thing because...?

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I actually hope this is true for both the PS4 and 720, so it leads to the day that the console market crashes due to their shitty fucking business decisions.

Leaving Nintendo the last business standing. I see what you did there.

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Problem with no backwards compatibility is when you have games from the previous generations that you still play (or want to play) to this day.

I still have DMC3, Jak2, Jak3, Ratchet and Clank 1-Deadlocked, Sly Cooper 1-3, and there are still other games out there on PS2 that I want to play. Even worse that I have a 360, a Wii, but no PS3.

Not exactly looking too foward to this.

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I actually hope this is true for both the PS4 and 720, so it leads to the day that the console market crashes due to their shitty fucking business decisions.
Okay, quick show of hands. Who here hates Activision? Yes? Here's a reality check for you, then - they're still here today because they SURVIVED the last great gaming crash, and were arguably just as bad back then as they are now.

A crash of the gaming market isn't some Noah's Ark esque great purge that removes all the evil from the industry. It just means that everyone who doesn't have money and/or common sense goes down the toilet. It has just as much potential to leave the worst men standing at the end of it all than it does to do the industry any actual good.

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Problem with no backwards compatibility is when you have games from the previous generations that you still play (or want to play) to this day.

I still have DMC3, Jak2, Jak3, Ratchet and Clank 1-Deadlocked, Sly Cooper 1-3, and there are still other games out there on PS2 that I want to play. Even worse that I have a 360, a Wii, but no PS3.

Not exactly looking too foward to this.

They'll probably make the digital copies compatible with the Orbis. That's one of the non-noticeable reasons why Sony is trying to make people move in to digital-only.

Okay, quick show of hands. Who here hates Activision? Yes? Here's a reality check for you, then - they're still here today because they SURVIVED the last great gaming crash, and were arguably just as bad back then as they are now.

A crash of the gaming market isn't some Noah's Ark esque great purge that removes all the evil from the industry. It just means that everyone who doesn't have money and/or common sense goes down the toilet. It has just as much potential to leave the worst men standing at the end of it all than it does to do the industry any actual good.

Difference is, they make the games not the consoles.

Edited by Ming Ming Love
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So people can buy them and they can earn more money. Seriously, if that wasn't obvious enough, then I suppose Steam hasn't been having sales for multiple games over this past year.

It wasn't more than a year ago when Wii and DS games, even launch window ones, cost exactly as much new as they did when they first came out. To say nothing of Nintendo digital distribution policies, which ware tailor-made for the Wii to offer you generally-shittier versions of PSN/XBLA titles for a cost that wasn't that much more if you were lucky. Or, fuck, Nintendo throughout the entirety of the 1980s, as Dobkeratops points out below.

And who can forget the PSP Go, which offered most of your favorite PSP titles at far less convenience for a price only twice as much as it cost if you bought them new at Wal-Mart?

So what was that about comparing Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony to Steam? Because Sony and especially Nintendo are the last fucking companies that I want holding the keys to how much a game costs after a year or so.

Yes, and back then game developers/publishers didn't like them. Your point isn't clear.

You're asking me to blame retailers, some of whom have been around in some capacity for nearly two decades now, for things that publishers are only starting to bitch about now because it wasn't until now that it became such a massive problem that needs to be stopped. Yet somehow, the retailers (who have been more-or-less acting the same way for those two decades) are the ones to blame.

Something isn't right here.

I'd really like to see you think of a way to get people to not purchase used games

A "Let's see you do better" response? Really?

But I'll bite: Bonus content for purchasing the game new. And extra mission, maybe another bullet point on the back of the box, maybe some cool little cheat code, whatever. For multiplayer games, publicity events that buying the game new allows you to take part in (note that most publishers of huge multiplayer games do this anyway at some capacity, so it isn't as if it would be a stretch to do it).

There. That's two. What do I get?

especially in an industry where games are severely underpriced.

[citation needed]

And no, publishers whining about game development costs is not proof.

It is when their policy is to push used games into people's faces as much as possible.

No, it still isn't on them to grease the publishers palms just like it isn't in any other retail setting with used goods that are designed based on intellectual property (ie: Almost every one ever).

This is a big problem when used games don't even have a real downside compared to new games, so there is little incentive to get new titles.

Perhaps they could create that incentive, then. Shocker, I know.

Hell, they could just punish those that buy used if it really comes down to it and they can't think of anything, because as bullshit as that is it at least shuts the publishers up and allows the people the chance to save some money.

Clever...

Support it or don't say it in the first place. How are they being ripped off? What exactly are GameStop and similar retailers "getting away" with?

You are implying some massive ethical SNAFU on the part of these retailers without actually bothering to explain it beyond "Used games are bad, M'kay?"

There are more publishers than EA in the world you know. Really, I'm not advocating for EA, I'm advocating for the publishers of titles that don't make bucket loads of money on their first days.

Smaller publishers are generally able to make out fine because they aren't arrogant enough to throw around money like it comes out of their ass and then turn around and blame the consumer when it doesn't work for them. Smaller publishers are also the ones who tend to have dedicated fanbases, so they don't have to take particularly large gambles in the first place.

And it's a good thing that EA isn't the only publisher that does it, isn't it? I mean, I would look foolish if that was the case.

Edited by Tornado
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Hey, it's that pre-new gen time where we get all the crazy rumors and shit. Remember when PS3 games would cost $100 because blurays are soooo expensive and the Wii's graphics would make you say wow? Granted that last one came true but I do believe it originally was meant to be a positive kind of wow :9

Let's see how much of this actually comes true and how much is bullshit/scrapped concepts/viral marketing.

The used game thingy is a common topic lately. Maybe publishers are actively pressing towards it, maybe not. We'll still get online passes anyways, you can bet on that. Tbh the PC market cut the used game marked way long ago and Gaben's doing fine - meaning if we got games at $5-10 during holiday sales for the PS4/720 nobody would complain. No way that is happening, so I'll just shrug and deal with whatever comes out of this accordingly.

And yeah, at this point I'd be really surprised if any of the three manufacturers had full BC. Nintendo's already out, Microsoft didn't even bother fixing the broken Xbox games they have listed as compatible before pulling the plug on that and Sony will have a hard time properly emulating the Cell (to their credit they put effort into the seemingly impossible PS2 software emulation and we're getting PS2 games now, however).

What are players going to do when the system is out of production, and the prices for new copies become extremely high? They either fork over the money or they're fucked? Sounds like a dick move to me.

You'd buy an used copy and pay $5 for the online pass shit thing on your account like it already happens with a crapload of games, i'd guess.

I just never liked the idea of "no used games," because what if your console shits out on you and you need a new one? It's not guaranteed that if you send in the console for repair by Sony that the games will still work upon return? What if you choose to buy a new console altogether? All your backlog of games... gone

Uh. Redownload all content? It's all tied to your user/email. You can even remotely deactivate accounts on broken systems via web or calling tech support.

I like Nintendo, but having them be the only ones making consoles would be terrible.

Any developer old enough to have been around in the NES/SNES days would agree :P

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I wanted to say something, but Tornado's taking the words out of my mouth D:

OH WELL

Edited by Solkia
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It wasn't more than a year ago when Wii and DS games, even launch window ones, cost exactly as much new as they did when they first came out. To say nothing of Nintendo digital distribution policies, which ware tailor-made for the Wii to offer you generally-shittier versions of PSN/XBLA titles for a cost that wasn't that much more if you were lucky. Or, fuck, Nintendo throughout the entirety of the 1980s, as Dobkeratops points out below.

And who can forget the PSP Go, which offered most of your favorite PSP titles at far less convenience for a price only twice as much as it cost if you bought them new at Wal-Mart?

So what was that about comparing Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony to Steam? Because Sony and especially Nintendo are the last fucking companies that I want holding the keys to how much a game costs after a year or so.

Considering the prices that Nintendo offered the classics, I'd say they did pretty ok. $5-$8 isn't that bad for old NES/N64/Gen/etc. games.

As for the PSP Go, the people punished Sony with poor sales anyways, so that's not going to happen again anytime soon. When money punishes, it punishes hard.

Plus, incentive for selling old games that are lower prices is that if there is a game that has been on the downloadable shelf for a while, and didn't make too much money, then a sale could potentially drive up profits for the game.

Granted, I will admit the flaws of this. It would take a significantly longer time for the downloadable retailers to do that because the lack of stock means that less money isn't as big a loss. However, forced digital retail means the prices of games will need to be lowered to a reasonable level. The average joe isn't going to pay $60 for what he doesn't have in his hands. Not to mention that customers will need to be wary with their buys, especially if this market doesn't end up getting better anytime soon

You're asking me to blame retailers, some of whom have been around in some capacity for nearly two decades now, for things that publishers are only starting to bitch about now because it wasn't until now that it became such a massive problem that needs to be stopped. Yet somehow, the retailers (who have been more-or-less acting the same way for those two decades) are the ones to blame.

Something isn't right here.

Plublishers have always bitched about used games in some way or form, but they've never been able to really do much before. With better technology, they've been trying. Haphazardly maybe, but trying.

A "Let's see you do better" response? Really?

But I'll bite: Bonus content for purchasing the game new. And extra mission, maybe another bullet point on the back of the box, maybe some cool little cheat code, whatever. For multiplayer games, publicity events that buying the game new allows you to take part in (note that most publishers of huge multiplayer games do this anyway at some capacity, so it isn't as if it would be a stretch to do it).

There. That's two. What do I get?

You get a better debate.

I guess the let's see you do better was hasty of me. I've fought this fight subjectively out of frustration, and now I'm paying. Let me work my stance back to the objectivity I wanted. Sorry for sounding like an ass.

Perhaps they could create that incentive, then. Shocker, I know.

Yes, I agree with you. Publishers need to create more incentive to buy new games.

Support it or don't say it in the first place. How are they being ripped off? What exactly are GameStop and similar retailers "getting away" with?

They are actively competing with publishers using products they didn't produce. The keyword is actively.

You are implying some massive ethical SNAFU on the part of these retailers without actually bothering to explain it beyond "Used games are bad, M'kay?"

It's not so much the used games that are the problem, and I'm sorry for sounding like I was arguing that. The problem is how they are being sold. They are being pushed into the faces of people over new games. That is the problem. And while, I don't really like the extremes that are being rumored. It's a problem that needs to be addressed.

Smaller publishers are generally able to make out fine because they aren't arrogant enough to throw around money like it comes out of their ass and then turn around and blame the consumer when it doesn't work for them. Smaller publishers are also the ones who tend to have dedicated fanbases, so they don't have to take particularly large gambles in the first place.

Small publishers can't take risks or gambles, not so much because of their dedicated fanbases, but because the money won't let them. Sometimes, dedicated fanbases could hurt big risks if they're too dedicated. However, that's moving to a hypothetical point of view.

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I believe they said it's connected to PSN but, even then I still wouldn't support this bullshit. I didn't like it when SEGA did it with PSO, I don't like it now.

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