PlayStation 4 Discussion

[Candescence]

I sincerely doubt I'll be able to afford anything more than a WiiU by the end of the year, maybe a Vita.

The game industry's been flailing their arms in desperation lately, between the recession and skyrocketing game development costs, but they really need to stop dropping their problems on consumers, grow a pair, and find an agreeable and sustainable business model. Now I'm not a used game player, but consumers have the right to that for the same reason they have a right to a used car or a used MP3 player. $60 is probably as high as the average, peripheral and bonus content-free game will ever be able to sell for because it's already a lot to ask for for a mass market product, but publishers need to find a way around that to survive at this point, so that's why we've been seeing so much experimentation with DLC and microtransactions. They're not (necessarily) greedy, just paranoid, and they've started mistrusting the consumer which is leading them in the completely wrong direction. This is why Valve is absolutely thriving on Steam where Origin is a trainwreck. Especially in this economy, models built on trust are going to be the most effective, but through all these bullshit DRM practices, companies are so dead set on destroying piracy and anything else that prevents them from getting their hard earned dollar that they're blind to the fact that they themselves are largely the cause of it.

I don't think I could put it better, myself. The industry's woes are self-inflicted, with developers and publishers trying to mimic the movie industry despite the fact that the movie industry works in a completely different way which actually makes such high costs workable, meaning high production costs aren't sustainable for game developers. And yet both publishers and developers don't realize it. Without a sustainable business model, the industry is going to implode in on itself eventually.

Something needs to give - this industry needs a serious wake-up call that the way thing are done now simply isn't working nearly as well anymore.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Tornado]

Second round of PS4 development kits reaching developers.

new version of the PlayStation 4 dev kit is currently being distributed to developers with the final version expected next year, according to a new report.

Anonymous sources have reportedly told VG247 that new versions of the Orbis kit are winging their way to developers, replete with Blu-ray support and housed in the humble cases of normal PCs.

This is apparently the second iteration of the dev kit; the first, which appeared earlier this year, was in essence just a graphics card, while this version is now a "modified PC". The report asserts that the next update will come in January, when it'll be close to final specifications, with the ultimate version landing with devs next summer.

The shipping of the Orbis kit apparently follows a series of meetings held by Sony in the US this week, where the company explained what the machine was designed to do and how to get the most out of it. Interestingly, at these meetings it's been claimed that Sony didn't refer to the machine as "the PlayStation 4" at all, instead opting to use the "Orbis" title at all times.

The dev kits are apparently based on the AMD’s A10 APU series and come with either 8GB or 16GB of RAM, as well as the Blu-ray drive already mentioned and a 256GB hard drive as standard. This is to ensure that the console will be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D.

The Orbis kits have both Wi-Fi and Ethernet connectivity, as well as HDMI out slots; so pretty much exactly what you'd expect to find on your current PlayStation 3. However, the big reported difference comes with the UI, which has been designed to be more fluid and allow extensive navigation anywhere on the system simply by pressing the PS button mid-game. This was demoed to the assembled masses by purchasing DLC from the PS Store without quitting the game.

No details were leaked about the system's controller. IGN reached out to Sony for comment, but were told the company "doesn't comment on rumour and speculation."

If you're looking for more info on the Orbis, we've dissected the reported components that make up the dev kit before, as well as what it could mean for Sony's prospects in the next generation of consoles.

Linky,

Also, something interesting and far more important:

Orbis = Circle

Vita = Life

Ergo, Disney buying Sony confirmed. Thus:

• Disney will totally milk the Playstation brand and make it meaningless, because Sony totally hasn't done that before.
  
• Disney will totally fire all of the talented people currently working there and make the future output a joke.
  
• PS4 officially more Princess Friendly than Wii-U.
  
• Sony will lose the rights to the Spiderman movies!
  

At least, I'm assuming this will happen. Seems to be the case based on recent reactions to other things.

In all seriousness, that seems to be supporting the assumption that Sony will dump CELL.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Tornado

[Badnik Mechanic]

Orbis = Circle

Vita = Life

Ergo, Disney buying Sony confirmed. Thus:

Hmmmm unless of course the new console is called Mufasa. I'd buy one for the name alone.

[PSI Wind]

So, it's gonna be Nine Hundred Ninety Nine US Dollars? No way can this thing be cheap.

[Barry the Nomad]

Hmmmm unless of course the new console is called Mufasa. I'd buy one for the name alone.

I just hear that name, and I shudder!

Mufasa!

Ooooh! ... Do it again!

Mufasa!

Ooooh! Hoo hoo hoo...

Edited November 1, 2012 by Barry the Nomad

[Candescence]

So, it's gonna be Nine Hundred Ninety Nine US Dollars? No way can this thing be cheap.

Agreed, I can't imagine that system being anything but prohibitively expensive. Apparently, Sony STILL haven't learned from the PS3 and the Vita.

[Patticus]

If it hits that price point in this slowly recovering economy, or if Sony takes a $300+ loss on it at the beginning, they're in trouble. In the former scenario they risk catastrophically low sales, and in the latter they risk what profits they're making.

It's a big gamble.

[Eternal EX]

I just hear that name, and I shudder!

Ooooh! ... Do it again!

Ooooh! Hoo hoo hoo...

I was sooo hoping someone did this.

Topic wise...eh. I'll make my impressions later when the thing shows off a demo or something at next years E3.

[Candescence]

If it hits that price point in this slowly recovering economy, or if Sony takes a $300+ loss on it at the beginning, they're in trouble. In the former scenario they risk catastrophically low sales, and in the latter they risk what profits they're making.

It's a big gamble.

It's mind-boggling as to why they're still trying to go the "superior hardware" route, when it's clearly not working anymore. Sony should've seen the signs when the DS beat out the PSP, but they've tried it twice more with increasingly bad results. When they tried the expensive price point with the PS3, it was a catastrophic failure for them for much of the generation. Even when they tried to compete with the 3DS' price with the Vita, the Vita is doing, quite frankly, horribly, to the point where it's practically all but dead in Japan at this point, and not much better elsewhere.

I think Microsoft and Sony will have a much harder time trying to sell their new systems to both developers and consumers (except for those with a massive hard-on for cutting-edge tech, like Epic Games). The Wii U already has a head-start, and seems to be doing extremely well with preorders. Game graphics are starting to plateau, in a sense, and only seriously hardcore graphics-philes will be able to tell much of the difference between the Wii U and its future competitors. There's not gonna be another jump in visual quality like there was from last gen to this one, no way, not even remotely close, not with polygon tech, anyhow.

And unless there's a massive paradigm shift in how AAA game development is done, with the pressure for bigger and better games being put on developers resulting in rapiding escalating game budgets that are increasingly difficult to make a profit on (and thus killing studios that don't make profitable games), the next XBox and PS4 could very well be the death knell for AAA gaming as we know it, for all but the most exceedingly popular titles such as CoD.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Thigolf]

I just love how Sony still doesn't get it.

[Candescence]

It didn't take long for me to realize why Sony has an inexplicable obsession with cutting-edge hardware. It's because of its internal culture that has, for decades, prided its engineers like rockstars, to the point where said engineers are obsessed with creativity and completely opposed to cost-cutting, and are a very, very arrogant bunch who consistently give their executives the middle finger when making hardware. It's gotten to the point where nothing short of a complete dismantlement of Sony's structure and internal culture is going to fix its problems.

No bloody wonder Sony seems utterly fixated on the latest hardware, against all reason. Their engineers will accept nothing less, and there are so many divisions that its executives seem virtually clueless about what's going on inside their own company, and pretty much literally incapable of controlling the engineers. It's insane. No wonder Sony is having so much trouble in general.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Tornado]

I'm entertained by how stating nothing more than the estimated amount of RAM the development kits have is being used as proof that Sony is out of touch with gamers because the system will cost a thousand dollars and no one will buy it and the Wii U will destroy it and blah blah blah blah.

I mean, Christ guys. You aren't even trying to hide it. Just buy your Wii U and shut up about it.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Tornado

[Badnik Mechanic]

You people are complaining about a console that doesn't exist yet nor that actually has a price.

Alrighty then.

It could be worse I suppose, they could have made the tech barely better than whats already on the PS3 already, charge us through the nose for it, then start a marketting campaign about why it's launch titles are totally not ports of other games. We could call it The Playstation-U.

Agreed, I can't imagine that system being anything but prohibitively expensive. Apparently, Sony STILL haven't learned from the PS3 and the Vita.

Well actually... reading through the Vita topic when the price was announced. Most people were actually pleased about the price and said it was priced quite well so... where exactly is this coming from?

[Detective Shadzter]

Well actually... reading through the Vita topic when the price was announced. Most people were actually pleased about the price and said it was priced quite well so... where exactly is this coming from?

I've noticed that in most forums. People were happy to see it was priced the same as the 3DS, but as soon as Nintendo dropped the price of the 3DS, people started calling it overpriced :-/

[Candescence]

The Vita is a bit of an interesting beast. I'm fine with it's price, personally, and I'd totally buy it if I actually had the dough. God knows how much money Sony must be losing due to the price point, though, good grief. Sony took a huge gamble on that one, and so far it isn't working out.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Carbo]

I don't see why people are freaking out over the RAM. Devkits multiply the amount of RAM available in a console for the sake of easier compatibility. That amount is going to be cut by at least half once PS4 actually rolls around.

I've noticed that in most forums. People were happy to see it was priced the same as the 3DS, but as soon as Nintendo dropped the price of the 3DS, people started calling it overpriced :-/

Speaking as a Vita owner I never personally thought it was overpriced. I thought it was an incredibly generous price point for a console that is doing nothing to support it's massive tech and is consistently selling less and at a loss with no visible improvement.

Their latest quarterly report a few days ago which is still keeping quiet about the exact numbers by bundling Vita+PSP/PS3+PS2 together is still decreasing and despite their computer entertainment division being one of the few things not currently being a big detractor to Sony's major problems, if it keeps up like this it's not exactly going to bode that well.

[Dobkeratops]

I'm entertained by how stating nothing more than the estimated amount of RAM the development kits have is being used as proof that Sony is out of touch with gamers because the system will cost a thousand dollars and no one will buy it and the Wii U will destroy it and blah blah blah blah.

They be scared that Sony could have a console notably better than the WiiU at roughly the same price, despite the existing precedents. And if they do it's obviously because they're losing $500 per unit sold. All of this without knowing what the systems will have, how will they be manufactured, details about deals and over time price reduction for mass market components, etc. Just some devkit rumor to base this on.

Oh, rumors used to say Microsoft's would be a bit more powerful so I guess that's it for the Xbox division at -$600 everytime someone buys a Durango/720.

At least speculate using known facts, goddamn.

[Mogtaki]

Sony are turning into Microsoft. That machine is basically a mini-PC, we don't want a mini-PC.

[Badnik Mechanic]

That machine is basically a mini-PC, we don't want a mini-PC.

And so begins the Terminator homage....

Probable responces:

1: We don't?

2: Why not?

3: But Valve are rumored to be making a PC type console.

4: But what of tablet and mobile devices which sell in the millions that are effectively mini PC's.

5: Where is Sarah Connor?

6: Wait, Why don't we?

and so ends the terminator homage.

[Tornado]

Or one can just ask how estimates for the amount of RAM in the development kits means anything for how Sony will market the system.

[Mogtaki]

And so begins the Terminator homage....

Probable responces:

1: We don't?

2: Why not?

3: But Valve are rumored to be making a PC type console.

4: But what of tablet and mobile devices which sell in the millions that are effectively mini PC's.

5: Where is Sarah Connor?

6: Wait, Why don't we?

and so ends the terminator homage.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Anyway, I liked it when consoles were consoles and PCs were machines you could use to look up obscure videos and pictures, but Sony seems determined to follow along the Microsoft route while taking ideas from the other consoles. It just seems to be that they're trying to stay on top by copying everything else.

[Tornado]

Anyway, I liked it when consoles were consoles and PCs were machines you could use to look up obscure videos and pictures, but Sony seems determined to follow along the Microsoft route while taking ideas from the other consoles. It just seems to be that they're trying to stay on top by copying everything else.

[Conando]

Well, I think it's more that computer hardware released just a year or 2 later will kick the shit out of it, so they should really try to differentiate themselves from the platform. I see nothing wrong with wanting a console that can browse the web, play streaming movies, etc. though.

[Scar]

Moore's law anyone?

The ARM Cortex A-9 cores in the Vita are already outdated and have been replaced by much more powerful and efficient Krait cores (by Qualcomm) in the smartphone space, and the Cromebook and soon-to-launch Nexus 10, will bring about a large shift towards ARM Cortex-A15 cores. Even the GPU in the Vita, the PowerVR SGX543MP4; something which is widely regarded as the most powerful mobile GPU available (Used in Apples latest iPads), is going to be replaced by PowerVR Series 6 GPUs.

So the Vita (depending on how they handle pricing) should be able to turn a profit within 2 years. Given that the rate at which mobile computing technology is advancing, the tech within the Vita will be heavily outgunned by your average smartphone within the next couple years, the price of the components within the Vita will suddenly plummet in price as demand drops and shifts towards newer tech.

In the case of the PS4's alleged Dev-Kits, its unlikely the actual console will ever be anywhere near that in terms of power. Even then, RAM is no longer prohibitively expensive, especially in the desktop space (which if we're honest, is what consoles are derived from). The real factors which will affect cost will be the CPU and GPU (but even then, those will drop in cost as soon as next generation CPUs and GPUs are released 8-12 months later).

One extra little thing:

I'm pretty sure that most people here don't really understand why the PS3 was such a money-sink. Yeah, the CELL BE was expensive to develop, but that tech wasn't what drove the costs so high. It was the Blu-Ray drive. See Blu-Ray players at the time could set you back upto $1500. That's just a standalone Blu-ray player. If the rumours of a Blu-ray drive in the PS4 are true, that huge cost Sony lost so much money on, with the PS3, won't be such a massive problem any more.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Scar