PlayStation 4 Discussion

[Carbo]

Rumor: New PS4 codename is Thebes. Not launching until 2014.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/11/xbox-720-ps4-codenames-revealed-microsofts-oban-chip-detailed-rumour/

PS4′s internal codename is ‘Thebes’ claim the site’s sources, and states that AMD is also supplying its base chip. This ties in to what our own sources told us back in October. You can read our full, rather massive report on the issue here.

The report added that the PS4 AMD chip will likely be manufactured at Global Foundries or IBM, and will enter production after Microsoft’s Oban chip. The site suggests PS4 will launch Spring or Autumn 2014. The belated release could be likely, given Sony’s Shuhei Yoshida’s recent comments, in which he deemed it too early to start talking about PS4.

If Sony are actually being serious about launching in 2014 the massive hole they're digging themselves is going to be hard to get out of.

[Candescence]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. If this is true, then the PS4 launch is gonna be literally a year and a half after the Wii U's, effectively giving the Wii U a massive head-start. Seriously? The last two times Sony released their systems last, the PS3 was a massive money sieve, and the Vita is currently crashing and burning hard.

Considering Sony are leaking money from multiple holes that they haven't closed up, another high-profile gaming console failure would be a catastrophe. Of course, the PS4 and 760 are a long way away, so anything can happen, but still.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Tornado]

The last two times Sony released their systems last, the PS3 was a massive money sieve, and the Vita is currently crashing and burning hard.

Both of which were completely unrelated to when they came out in relation to the other systems. The PS3 was a massive money sieve because Sony was selling it for not even 2/3rds what it cost in parts alone (so it would have been even worse had they released it sooner), and the Vita is crashing and burning because Sony refuses to be proactive to combat the cost of the system itself like Nintendo was and is instead just trying to ride it out (which only makes the Vita less and less of a good value, because the reasons to not buy it and buy competing products get better and better).

Edited December 11, 2012 by Tornado

[Carbo]

I would agree that launching late had little to do with the Vita which actually performed substantially well it's first week, but the PS3's performance is entirely debatable as it's price point was only one of many factors behind it's lukewarm first months. It didn't have any interesting launch line-up to speak of, the brand name wasn't pushing any significant units and it's performance in the west was already being overshadowed by the 360, whose race advantage and established base had already caused a plethora of developers to jump ship in terms of exclusivity. The 360 has always had abysmal runs in the east, so it'd be clear that the only reason to make that jump was because of having the western audience in mind.

Fairly sure it's even been said by Sony themselves that missing out on the race was one of their biggest mistakes, and I can't see Sony affording that twice. Xbox has already established itself as the go-to console in the western world and if Sony are hoping to have a similar semblance of impact, it needs to launch in a similar time frame. If not, PS4 is almost certainly going to bank on a Japanese market to push it's install base, but the problem with that is that Wii U would feasibly stand a two-year head start, and it's already raking in some really good numbers. A load of Japanese developers could potentially end up targeting PS3 and Wii U as such if the PSP is anything to go by in terms of familiarity with technology and a dedicated base.

Of course, this is all just assuming that the PS4 does come out in Q4. If it'd launch in Q2, that'd look a lot better on Sony. But at the same time they'd be missing out on the Christmas market, which could be a problem.

[Tornado]

Masaru didn't say sales problems; which were indeed a combination of the delay in the release of the system, Microsoft throwing around their money, Sony being almost laughably arrogant in their marketing, the price of the system, and various other big factors. He said the amount of money that it lost Sony being a result of when they released it.

They could have released the PS3 at any time they wanted, and it wouldn't have mattered how good the attachment rate was because they still would have taken a several hundred dollar bath on every system sold. You can't offset a 50% loss on millions of $600 units, and you certainly can't do so by releasing it as early as possible so that loss is even bigger. And if Sony had released it much earlier, (say, before E3 of 2006) then the entire comparison is moot because by that point you are talking complete guesses, since Sony would have had to design the system considerably differently because they could not have released the PS3 in the form it arrived in in 2005 (Blu Ray would have been impossible to include when they had massive shortages even when releasing it at the end of 2006, as just one example). At that point it basically boils down to the same type of purely hypothetical discussions as "what if Sega waited a couple years and released the Dreamcast with a DVD player instead?"

Edited December 11, 2012 by Tornado

[Candescence]

Well, I can be wrong, but still, I maintain my point - the PS4's launch, depending on when it happens, can provide its competitors one hell of a head-start, which could be quite bad for Sony.

I also think perception could possibly be a huge problem for Sony and MS. Game graphics are reaching a plateau, the next gen MS/Sony systems are not gonna look much better than the Wii U, in my personal opinion, and the differences will seem utterly negligible to most consumers, and those who aren't pure graphics whores are simply going to wonder why they should buy more expensive hardware that only looks marginally better than the Wii U in most cases, especially if they forgo using touch-screen controllers as well like they did with this gen with motion controls (right up until they realized they made a big mistake way too late).

Edited December 11, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[PSI Wind]

Isn't Sony starting to actually earn money from PS3 sales since about 2010? And while yes, games won't look all that better except maybe a few very small pixels get removed from say, a Wii U port, the games would run faster and be able to do more complicated stuff like an actual good AI.

[Tornado]

Having seen the differences in the console versions of Far Cry 3 and the PC version, and knowing both that a hypothetical Wii U version wouldn't look much (if any) better than the former and that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles still wouldn't look as good as the latter, I don't think game graphics are reaching a plateau at all.

Besides, there's much more to having the graphical power to push polys than just using it to push polys. I have no doubt that people would happily buy PS360 game equivalents on next gen systems if the only graphic improvement was that they would run locked at 60 FPS rather than 30-ish. Or racing games that look exactly as good as your Forza 4 or GT5, but have twice the cars on screen. Hell, developers would love to have much more powerful hardware, because it would make it easier on them since tolerances would be so much wider (to say nothing about how streamlined the next two systems are most likely going to be).

Edited December 11, 2012 by Tornado

[Candescence]

Isn't Sony starting to actually earn money from PS3 sales since about 2010?

Well, yeah... That's not enough to offset the fact that they lost all the profits they got from the PS1 and PS2 combined.

And while yes, games won't look all that better except maybe a few very small pixels get removed from say, a Wii U port, the games would run faster and be able to do more complicated stuff like an actual good AI.

There won't be much processing power for that, either, especially if the recent Durango rumors are to be believed, and good AI depends more on competent programmers and designers far more than it depends on the CPU.

Having seen the differences in the console versions of Far Cry 3 and the PC version, and knowing both that a hypothetical Wii U version wouldn't look much (if any) better than the former and that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles still wouldn't look as good as the latter, I don't think game graphics are reaching a plateau at all.

Besides, there's much more to having the graphical power to push polys than just using it to push polys. I have no doubt that people would happily buy PS360 game equivalents on next gen systems if the only graphic improvement was that they would run locked at 60 FPS rather than 30-ish. Or racing games that look exactly as good as your Forza 4 or GT5, but have twice the cars on screen. Hell, developers would love to have much more powerful hardware, because it would make it easier on them since tolerances would be so much wider (to say nothing about how streamlined the next two systems are most likely going to be).

I guess I misworded my argument there - console visuals aren't gonna catch up with PCs anytime soon, no way, not unless MS and Sony want to commit financial suicide. It's one of the major reasons why I hope Unlimited Detail actually proves itself to be a viable technology, then developers won't have to worry about pushing polygons and instead be able to focus on shit that actually matters far more, like fluid dynamics and stuff like that.

Speaking of which, I think Euclideon is supposed to be releasing UD's playable demonstration and SDK soon. I remember the time-frame for the next demonstration and SDK was said to be planned to be released around 14 months after the one last year (which was in august). I'm cautiously optimistic over the whole thing, but I think it'll work out, seeing as how there's plenty of evidence that it's a serious project, and if it works out, it could be one of the most revolutionary pieces of middleware in gaming history.

[Detective Shadzter]

Sony patents pre-owned games block
Technology 'tags' games that have been used in different consoles
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/384922/sony-patents-pre-owned-games-block/

[Scar]

Sony patents pre-owned games block

Technology 'tags' games that have been used in different consoles

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/384922/sony-patents-pre-owned-games-block/

 

Not cool.

Hope they don't use it.

 

Hope they use it for something useful, like being able to sell used electronic games.

[Thigolf]

I'd like to say something about that, but it would end as a giant, hate-filled rage anyway...

[Scar]

I'd like to say something about that, but it would end as a giant, hate-filled rage anyway...

Well Jack Tretton stated at some point that they wouldn't actually use a Used Game Block, out of fear of losing all their customers.

I certain hope for his sake that they stay true to that.

[Tornado]

Don't think you need to worry too much about it. It's already probably illegal as hell in America and the EU (which... it probably wouldn't be in Japan), and if Sony announced it would be implemented it probably would be made to be illegal if it wasn't.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Tornado

[Thigolf]

I guess you two are right, but even the attempt alone makes me pissed, honestly.

[Scar]

I guess you two are right, but even the attempt alone makes me pissed, honestly.

Patents can be made in order to stop others from exploiting a similar feature. Its called patent trolling. There are entire companies who make money like this through litigation.

[Candescence]

Patents can be made in order to stop others from exploiting a similar feature. Its called patent trolling. There are entire companies who make money like this through litigation.

>Patent trolling being a good thing

 

In this case? Maybe. In other cases? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH NO.

[Tornado]

He was making no argument that it was.

[Candescence]

He was making no argument that it was.

He was heavily implying it, though, given the context.

[Tornado]

The context was "What reason would Sony be doing it that doesn't make them look like dicks." It's really not Scar's fault if you instantiate what he said to apply to all situations where similar things happen.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Tornado

[Candescence]

Well, it's mostly the way that he said it and the context in question. Though, taking it out of context, it's still implying that it's a good thing, in a sense, I think.

 

Though this is probably pointless arguing at this point, really.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

I would agree that launching late had little to do with the Vita which actually performed substantially well it's first week, but the PS3's performance is entirely debatable as it's price point was only one of many factors behind it's lukewarm first months. It didn't have any interesting launch line-up to speak of, the brand name wasn't pushing any significant units and it's performance in the west was already being overshadowed by the 360, whose race advantage and established base had already caused a plethora of developers to jump ship in terms of exclusivity. The 360 has always had abysmal runs in the east, so it'd be clear that the only reason to make that jump was because of having the western audience in mind.

Fairly sure it's even been said by Sony themselves that missing out on the race was one of their biggest mistakes, and I can't see Sony affording that twice. Xbox has already established itself as the go-to console in the western world and if Sony are hoping to have a similar semblance of impact, it needs to launch in a similar time frame. If not, PS4 is almost certainly going to bank on a Japanese market to push it's install base, but the problem with that is that Wii U would feasibly stand a two-year head start, and it's already raking in some really good numbers. A load of Japanese developers could potentially end up targeting PS3 and Wii U as such if the PSP is anything to go by in terms of familiarity with technology and a dedicated base.

Of course, this is all just assuming that the PS4 does come out in Q4. If it'd launch in Q2, that'd look a lot better on Sony. But at the same time they'd be missing out on the Christmas market, which could be a problem.

 

While it looks like it was too late for the PS3 to catch up with the Wii in sales, the PS3 did catch up with the 360 and overtook the 360 in sales (worldwide). So while they were out of the race years ago, at the near end of this generation they have just joined back in. 

 

Still it's late though. Most people that just got the PS3 in the US already have a 360. My cousin is an example of that as he just got his PS3 (and Wii U) last Christmas.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Merry Ming Shana

[Carbo]

While it looks like it was too late for the PS3 to catch up with the Wii in sales, the PS3 did catch up with the 360 and overtook the 360 in sales (worldwide). So while they were out of the race years ago, at the near end of this generation they have just joined back in. 

 

Still it's late though. Most people that just got the PS3 in the US already have a 360. My cousin is an example of that as he just got his PS3 (and Wii U) last Christmas.

Well yeah, of course. It was really the most balanced result in worldwide returns though so I don't think it's something they'd be boasting about to Microsoft at the very least seeing how it's possible for the 360 to perform that good if only built on western territory. Hell before this generation I don't think the west was ever considered such a decisive part in the equation, which is why I really expect Sony to try butting their heads with Microsoft a lot more this coming generation.

Kind of makes one think of N64 era Nintendo when they weren't prepared about worrying or even trying to fight the competition because prior to that the competition was always trailing behind the influence Nintendo set.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Videogame website VGleaks is claiming to have been given the roadmap for the PS4/Orbi's release. Including the release date of the console.

 

Now VGLeaks have been very accurate in the past with information, but consider how this info doesn't have a source and is very basic... take it with a pinch of salt. However, with rumors about Orbis recently, it does seem to match up with whats been speculated.

 

2011 June/July – PC with Win7 64-bit and a “jailbroken” ATI r9 graphics card
2011 Sept/Oct – PC with Win7 64-bit and a “jailbroken” ATI r10 graphics card
2012 Q1 – disclosure to more developers
2012 E3 – potential unveiling window start
2012 Jul – devkits for engineers writing OS
2012 Q3 – first true hardware prototype devkits
2013 E3 – potential unveiling window end
2013 Q4 – launch

 

So according to that. E3 is the public announcement. And Christmas is the launch? Thats a lot sooner than most people thought it would be.

 

VG Leaks says that they will be posting more info about both Orbis and Durango very soon.

 

Source: VG Leaks.

 

Also if this information ends up being correct. We might actually just see a console release clash between Sony and Microsoft.

[FourCartridge]

The reputation with VGCharts has caused me to take anything from a site with "VG" in the name not seriously, if at all. Some example of how reliable these guys have been in the past?

 

If it's true, it's a pretty wise choice from Sony given the prediction of 2014. Can't let Nintendo and Microsoft get a head start like last time. Of course, it really didn't matter thanks to 599 US DOLLARS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

INFECTED

Edited January 11, 2013 by FourCartridge