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Looking back on Episode 1, was it really that bad? (on its own merits?)


T-Min

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Obviously, when you compare it side by side with the classics, it gets some things wrong. The physics suck by any standards, but when compared to the superb momentum-based physics of S1-3&K, they're just offensive. All four Zones are essentially rehashes of Zones from the classic games, and the level design at times feels more like something out of a Rush game than a classic game, with its constant use of boosters, springs and homing chains. But when you look at Episode 1 on its own...is it really as horrible as we tend to make it out to be? Okay, hear me out.

I won't defend the physics; even when you don't compare it to the classics, these physics ARE objectively bad. There's no debating that. At the same time though, I really don't think they make the game unplayable. To me, they're a minor hindrance. And aside from that...I really don't see much that's inherently wrong with it.

I know that the level design gets a lot of criticism for being bland, but honestly...I legitimately disagree. Sure, the level designs aren't as great as those of the classics, but I still really enjoy the levels that S4:E1 has to offer. Even if there are several automated segments, the game DOES feature quite a bit of platforming. I thought Last Labyrinth and Mad Gear had some pretty nice platforming sections, in particular, and the levels also have several different paths you can take through them, which is nice. I also really liked how diverse the levels were in terms of gimmicks. I.e. Splash Hill Act 2 features vines you can swing on, Casino Street Act 2 features the cards, Casino Street Act 3 has the cannons, Lost Labyrinth Act 2 has the torch and the minecart, etc. The one thing (level design wise) that I really don't care for is the Bubbles chains. I don't mind the fact that they included the homing attack, but the Bubbles chains added nothing and served no purpose other than to break the flow of the game. Also, I got quite a kick out of the special stages. I thought they were really fun and challenging and a clever way of giving Sonic 1's special stages a shout-out.

Aesthetically, I also think it fares pretty well. Aside from Lost Labyrinth and Splash Hill's awful MS Paint background, I like the looks of most of the zones and the art style used for Sonic and co.'s sprites. The music? ...Well, I have the Wii version, so I got to avert the dying cats (for the most part), and well, I think it's pretty nice, mostly the music for Lost Labyrinth's and Mad Gear's levels.

So yeah, that's how I feel, anyway. Obviously, it's not a perfect game, but I do think it has some legitimate merits if nothing else. But what do you guys think?

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I dunno, it's not horrible, but I just feel that it could be so much more than what it is.

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It's kinda like Sonic heroes in my eyes. It's by no means a awesome Sonic game, but it's also not horrible and can be enjoyed. It's a game where the gameplay shouldn't be copied for later installments but can still be fun. questionable decisions were made. Put it next to the classic's yeah it's a offense to those games. But by itself it's a pretty decent title. I mean i enjoy it more than some other titles.But with it's original price, shortness,music,physics,etc. I can sort of understand why people freaked out like they did.

Edited by Hedgehogs Boost
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The Sonic 4 name just adds so much expectations. I'm not defending it as a game, but people wouldn't have quite as much of an issue with it if it were Sonic HD as was originally intended, as there wouldn't be those expectations and hopes. I think also a lot of people (myself included) consider it kind of a slap in the face (well I personally don't go that far as I don't care enough about Sonic 4) that some random dolled up Sonic HD becomes Sonic 4 just to get a cheap grab from fans, and say that if they were really wanting to make a Sonic 4, they'd put a bit more care and attention into it like with say Generations. As it is, it felt like it really just took it many steps back, especially within the whole rehash department, and while Episode 2 has taken a few more forward so far, it's not quite enough.

Edited by Semi-colon e
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But when you look at Episode 1 on its own...is it really as horrible as we tend to make it out to be?
YES!

At the same time though, I really don't think they make the game unplayable.
God do I hate that word. "Unplayable". Or not the word itself, but how it's used, how damn near every complaint is brushed off with "well it's not unplayable".

Well no shit it's not unplayable! We've played it! I have, you have, we all damn have. And most of us that have played it have beaten it, too, and maybe even multiple times. But that doesn't mean it's any good, only that it's met the absolute lowest qualification for being out on the shelves.

Beyond that? It has nothing, really. Boring platforming, too much automation, no real focus to the gameplay...it is the kind of thing you would get by a company imitating a Sonic game, thinking "platformer+fast+animal with attitude=$$$" without understanding a damn thing about designing a good game.

Aesthetically, I also think it fares pretty well.
It really doesn't. It looks cheap and fake, like plastic and cardboard. Except
and they aren't as ugly as S4E1.
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It's kinda like Sonic heroes in my eyes. It's by no means a awesome Sonic game, but it's also not horrible and can be enjoyed. It's a game where the gameplay shouldn't be copied for later installments but can still be fun. questionable decisions were made. Put it next to the classic's yeah it's a offense to those games. But by itself it's a pretty decent title. I mean i enjoy it more than some other titles.But with it's original price, shortness,music,physics,etc. I can sort of understand why people freaked out like they did.

Eh, this is where I personally disagree, I honestly believe that Heroes felt way more "classic" then Sonic 4 ever did, and I still think the Team-based mechanic is a wonderful concept that could be used to wonderful effect.

But that's off topic.

@Dio

Holy shit, now that's some angry passion right there.

Edited by Groosenator032
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YES!

God do I hate that word. "Unplayable". Or not the word itself, but how it's used, how damn near every complaint is brushed off with "well it's not unplayable".

Well no shit it's not unplayable! We've played it! I have, you have, we all damn have. And most of us that have played it have beaten it, too, and maybe even multiple times. But that doesn't mean it's any good, only that it's met the absolute lowest qualification for being out on the shelves.

Beyond that? It has nothing, really. Boring platforming, too much automation, no real focus to the gameplay...it is the kind of thing you would get by a company imitating a Sonic game, thinking "platformer+fast+animal with attitude=$$$" without understanding a damn thing about designing a good game.

It really doesn't. It looks cheap and fake, like plastic and cardboard. Except

and they aren't as ugly as S4E1.

It has focus towards the gameplay, as Sonic 4 Episode 1's whole concept essentially relies on the thrill that zones such as Chemical Plant rode on, the key difference here is that this was a miniscule area, as Episode 1 is an entire variable of a product. Unfortunately, when games such as Sonic Rush, Rush Adventure, and Episode 1 ride upon this gimmick, they tend to become lackluster due to their visuals that simply can't keep those segments entertaining.

With that said, I've always liked to perceive video games as art projects when attempting to appeal to certain criterion of audiences, therefore I usually tend to try to put myself in the developer's perspective, when I do such, I merely see a bunch of pomposities throughout the development, but that's more so due to the PR if anything, I am honestly enjoying watching Sonic 4 flourish as a project nevertheless, Dimps and Sonic Team certainly seem to be kicking it in gear in order to appeal to a minority when they really don't need to, as we are a rather pygmy fraction of a fanbase that actually is rather attentive of the classics and the pursuance of this project. Though I'm certain that is a minority that will increase with time, critics can't remain ignorant to it forever.

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I gotta agree with Dio on this one.

People say Sonic 4 on it's own was good...when it really wasn't.

The gameplay/physics are okay I guess, but my real problem was the level design.

Honestly, it just quite frankly fucking sucks.

People say it's unique but how? With the gimmicks? The vines and zip lines weren't interesting, nor were the boulders or gears in other zones. (I did like the cards though.) And it's not really unique when they slam it at your face ever 5 seconds of that stage.

Actually I take back the gameplay, the homing attack (which I have no quirps with being in a 2D game) was used badly. Every stage it's *Beep-Swish-Beep-Swish-Beep-Beep-BEEP* Chains and badly placed enemies made this game more of a button masher then a platformer.

Don't even get me started on the absurd amount of boosters and springs. I'd like to play this game, not watch it and hear *BRING-SWISH-BRING-BRING-BRING* all the time.

And the music. It's not the worst, nor horrible, as some tracks like Lost Labrynth Act 3 sounds nice, but the synths and other tracks sound pretty bad, making this game's soundtrack range from mediocre to ear-grating. Especially the final boss music, boss rush, and that clownish boss theme itself.

The graphics look cheap. 2D HD cutouts mixed with 3D badly done cel-shading does not work. It doesn't even take a genius to figure that out. And that blur effect Sonic has, along with Sonic himself is just ugly.

Going back to the level design, they were all featured around mainly gimmicks. I can't remember one time in Sonic 4 where there was a section that had some unique platforming away from it's level gimmicks. And speaking of which, how come there's almost never any room to run in this game unless it's a chase sequence? The originals had multiple times where you could run on a hill or such and enjoy and see just how fast Sonic is. Not in this game, unless it's aided by a speed booster.

And this was not worth the price. $15 which may I remind you costs MORE then GTA San Andreas on XBL. Yep, that speaks for itself.

This game is shitty when the classics are involved, and this game is just bad when other platformers in this day and age, even on XBL arcade or PSN, are involved.

And don't use that "Well you have to look at Sonic 4 by itself....." Why should I? It's Sonic 4, so I'm gonna look at it's predecessor to see how it fairs.

Now Episode 2 does look better then Episode 1, but that's not saying much when you look at what we have here.

Edited by Nintendoga
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Well if I could speak with Sonic 4 it would tell me "I've got to be so much more than this!" even when not compared with S3&K.

On it's own merits...well it gave us a separate button to go super with...

Oh, and I give it props at least some originallity. I don't think I've ever seen a plastic grass hills trope before. :P

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It has focus towards the gameplay, as Sonic 4 Episode 1's whole concept essentially relies on the thrill that zones such as Chemical Plant rode on,
No, Chemical Plant's thrills came from the core mechanics at least as much as from the boosters. They didn't need to stick a booster at the top of every hill just to get the game to play. S4E1's mechanics don't work with speed, and in fact they aren't really good for anything, so you just go back and forth from heavy automation to generic platforming.
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No, Chemical Plant's thrills came from the core mechanics at least as much as from the boosters. They didn't need to stick a booster at the top of every hill just to get the game to play. S4E1's mechanics don't work with speed, and in fact they aren't really good for anything, so you just go back and forth from heavy automation to generic platforming.

That was the point I was making, this was simply a zone utilizing the core mechanics of a game in order to introduce a new gimmick with each zone to deliver a new thrill, with Sonic 4 Episode 1, that attempt at making a thrill is essentially the same as the gimmick.

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That was the point I was making, this was simply a zone utilizing the core mechanics of a game in order to introduce a new gimmick with each zone to deliver a new thrill, with Sonic 4 Episode 1, that attempt at making a thrill is essentially the same as the gimmick.

Thing is, E1 didn't rely on that gimmick for thrills. It relied on that gimmick because neither the level design or physics would work without it. It was just that badly built.

Edited by HYDROCITEE
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Thing is, E1 didn't rely on that gimmick for thrills. It relied on that gimmick because neither the level design or physics would work without it. It was just that badly built.

I wasn't making an attempt at creating a euphemism for the developers. lol

It goes back much farther than I believe I implied, as the only way for the game to operate correctly in terms of gameplay was for it have similar mechanics to the Rush titles, but that's rather ubiquitous knowledge here.

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There's definitely worse than episode 1, but the standards the it set itself up for, as well as the fact that it's poorly made, just dropped faster than Sonic drops like a rock himself.

Just to be sure I didn't like it, I went through episode 1 at least 4 or more times. Twice on the wii version and a few times on the 360, chaos emeralds and all. I can say from my own experience that it's not very enjoyable for long periods of time, but everyone is different, just look at the people that ate it up which I have no problem with at times.

But to be frank, no it wasn't that terrible, but it wasn't all that good as it's filled with problems which just about most people here and many other places have detailed well ('specially Dio). The only thing I can say for sure I liked was Mad Gear and Super Sonic, everything else feels odd. Episode 2 is shaping up to be much better but still has some of the problems (boosters, automation, spamming of springs coupled with odd level design), which will hold it back more than it should.

Although I'll be buying episode 2 since it actually looks like something, plus I was given the points to buy it for myself anyway.

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While Sonic 4 isen't the best Sonic game iv'e played, i Think it was pretty good. In my opinion, The classics were ok. I mean 3&K was awsome and Sonic 1 was pretty good but i disliked the majority of Sonic 2.

On topic now:

Sonic 4 is a good buy if it's cheap, and I am really looking forward to Episode 2.

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It's not a particularly good game by any standard. The graphics aren't exactly ugly, but they're extremely lazy and obviously rushed/held back by inferior consoles. The music flat out is just bad, the level design is boring and extremely forced and gimmicky, and overall the fun factor and replayability just isn't high. There are only 4 zones and one final one with a single act, and each zone copies and pastes the exact same textures and such over and over again. The act gimmicks were nice, but nothing special. I don't feel compelled to ever play it again, basically.

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It's still a horrid game. The core mechanics have little to nothing that actually gives it substance and by extension actually making it entertaining. The levels are poorly designed and rely too much on automation to keep the player going, even in the later acts where the player should be able to do this themselves. Because the game is so blatantly uninteresting in how it plays, they feel the need to assign specific gimmicks to levels in order to actually make it entertaining and then fail spectacularly at that because shit like the torch puzzles are tedious and boring, and shit like the cannons don't even work properly. The game is fucking ugly, everything looks fake and unappealing, and a lot of the animations (like Sonic's running animation) look horrendous. The soundtrack is horrible with its lack of real instruments and songs that loop practically every 15 seconds. The game was offensively short for its original $15 price-tag, and still is offensive with its $10 price-tag.

A good game none of this makes.

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Compared to other Sonic games, it's a piece of garbage.

Compared to other modern 2D plaformers, it's a piece of garbage.

Compared to other downloadable titles available for $15, it's a piece of garbage.

Graphically, it's a piece of garbage when compared to other games.

The soundtrack is garbage when compared to other games.

I can go on, by the way, but I think I've made my point. I, along with many others, don't merely dislike Sonic 4 when comparing it to the classics. We dislike it when comparing it to other games in general. It's mediocre at best, and that's if you decide to forget what it's being marketed as.

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Compared to other Sonic games, it's a piece of garbage.

Compared to other modern 2D plaformers, it's a piece of garbage.

Compared to other downloadable titles available for $15, it's a piece of garbage.

Graphically, it's a piece of garbage when compared to other games.

The soundtrack is garbage when compared to other games.

I can go on, by the way, but I think I've made my point. I, along with many others, don't merely dislike Sonic 4 when comparing it to the classics. We dislike it when comparing it to other games in general. It's mediocre at best, and that's if you decide to forget what it's being marketed as.

I understand this.

About the marketing though, theres people like me who don't like the classics to much.

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The criticisms toward it are legit, I won't deny that...

Except for the ones about the graphics. You heartless a-holes, how could you dis plastic and cardboard. ;m; I doubt there are any two materials in the known universe that are more beautiful!

will-us-retailers-kill-the-plastic-bag1.jpg

So shiny...

cardboard-box-open-lg.jpg

So...cardboard-y...

You're all such terrible people. >:I

Man, I must be tired... XD

SO.

MUCH.

WIN.

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GoalRing, I've noticed that a few of your posts lately have been nothing but "This." or "SO MUCH WIN." This is spam and spam isn't allowed so we would like it if you cut it out.

Doing a mod action with this avatar/signature feels wrong

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